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Oh what the hey....

I was thinking about one of my favorite Bums who has been missing for some time and learned that she transitioned back in January. I gained a lot from her posts over the years. https://www.oshonews.com/2023/01/21/adeha/

What is it about this forum that keeps attracting people like this?

So Yin Happy Solstice & Best Wishes this Solstice !

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In my experience with some of the top traditional medicine practitioners in China, as well as my own humble but persistent studies on the subject, no method exists whereby a diagnosis of liver stagnation or anything else is based on one symptom -- an outburst of such and such emotions under such and such circumstances. One would have to have full context -- emotional manifestations may be a pointer, but one would carefully read the pulses, examine the tongue, the overall physique, posture, gait, sound of voice, even smell -- before arriving at conclusions. It's true that classical Chinese medicine has a strong tendency to somatize rather than psychologize (due to the whole set-up of the traditional society disallowing discussions of, e.g., psychological trauma inflicted by parents upon children or, by extension, any and all social superiors upon all inferiors), but even in this context things are not taken so far as to dispense diagnoses without a much more comprehensive examination.

Wishes to all for a great 2024. What practices, hobbies and routines will you be carrying on in 2024, that make your life better? I think I'll keep up the cold showers. For meditation try out more open eye, or rather half eye meditation til they close naturally while keeping a very quiet breath. I want to focus on a few base things. To do list- Keep up the kayaking, at least weekly and join an active group. See more concerts. Exercise and lose some weight, pick a program and be consistent. Learn to program.

It appears that Steve Gray, aka Starjumper, has passed on. Steve was a frequent participant here over the years. He was brash, outspoken, and entertaining. He was a practitioner and teacher of Chinese martial arts and neigong and author of A Lineage of Dragons and Zhan Zhuang Power Secrets. I did not always see eye to eye with Steve but I am sorry to hear of his passing. My condolences go out to his loved ones. Rest in Peace @Starjumper

Hello Bums,

Repulsing monkeys in Wales

For me, it's a bit about a belief many tribal people used to share -- every photo takes away some of one's soul. An indirect confirmation that there's something to it I see in the tragic or at least controversial predicament of many (oh so many) celebrities for whom having their images on public display is part of their job description -- actors/actresses, rock stars, politicians, etc.. Many of those who had "everything" an "ordinary person" might dream of -- fame and fortune and even love of millions -- wound up dying young, screwing up their lives with all kinds of toxic excesses, getting publicly eviscerated over this or that, or becoming grotesque caricatures of their own earlier selves. Does it have something to do with their incessant picture-posing? I don't know, but I definitely feel a certain truth to that. Would you believe that I only took one selfie in my entire life so far? And even that, by accident -- I was aiming for something else and snapped a pic of my reflection in the mirror instead, in a winery. I liked the accidental composition -- it looked sort of like a painting on the wall, so I kept it.

Disciple, why do you challenge the authority of the Master 😂

I think there's only one way and that is close observation over a long period of time (12 years is quoted in texts). Do they speak the truth? Are their actions consistent with their words? How do they conduct themselves? How do people around them, their close followers behave towards them and each other? This kind of thing. I have never known a good teacher who made any claims about their own enlightenment - usually they downplay their own abilities compared to their own teachers.

nice to see some of you here, time to show you I am not a snake after all.

Mirror, mirror on the wall, Who is the wisest DaoBum of them all? Apech, Apech you little shit, Whoever it is, you're not it. Mirror, mirror, in the trash, With a brick I did thee smash, What's the point of your reply, You could've at least try to lie.

I'll answer this as it is likely going to be useful for many reading. Qi is generated in our bodies from the food we eat via the practices we do. If we are working on a lot of patients and start running low, or running out, eating a big meal replenishes a great deal of qi. This is at the later stages of development, doesn't work like this in the beginning. Only once the dantian is fully established and strong with the channels being well developed and open too. So it does requires years of doing the correct practices slowly enhancing how the body both produces and stores energy and how it easily it can move around in the body. We do treat serious conditions successfully all the time, don't compare us to other systems you know about without having met us and seen what we do.. Qi is used as a tool in combination with tcm based healing methods like acupuncture, bone setting, tuina and herbal prescriptions. Depends if the patient changed the problem which caused the conditions for the problem to arise in the first place. If they did, the healing effect can be permanent and continue to improve with time. A doctor can stop the bleeding and put stiches, but if the patient goes home and continues to cut themselves they will keep bleeding. The same thing happens internally with bad diet, lack of exercise, stress and not enough sleep. Qi is energy, it gives you more, and you can give more to patients. It doesn't make you immune to viruses, or bacteria or poison, it does not stop aging and I don't see why it would or should . It just allows your body to function at it's optimum capacity which doesn't mean it's invulnerable or won't age. It will definitely age better than someone who doesn't have the qi if you don't overspend your qi constantly. Using qi every day to treat patients is draining not to mention getting exposed to sick qi all day every day. The monks who do the same training as us but aren't actively working as doctors look years younger and live much longer than the average person. Hope this helps others who thought the questions were interesting instead of just being a set up for you to come with snarky rhetorical questions later for whatever reason you like to ask them.

Sunrise at Rainbow Point in Bryce Canyon with my son. He'd never seen anything of it prior. Conditions were absolute perfection. North Campground still open year round. As we were driving up into the snowline in the sleet he turned and said... "well now I know where the other half of my heart has been waiting for me this life..."

Its always here and effortless, So let things go their own way. Nothing needs to be understood, As everything has already been accomplished. The mind cannot bring you there, As it can't be improved upon. Relaxing through not doing anything, Nothing needs to be done. Unchanging stillness that contains the changing movement, If effort is needed to maintain it, it's not it. It is dependant on no thing, Yet is in itself every thing. Awareness of the totality of the NOW, it 'just is', The 'just is', always is, effortlessly is, right now. Recognising the unchanging nature of mind, That has always been and always will be, You just sit.

I replaced the flowers in my shrine

No, “they” don’t all love their guns. I hate guns. Guns are a cancer of society. Before anyone @‘s me, I am a former US Army Infantry Sergeant, and an expert marksmen, and have used all kinds of weapons.

Covid wars, 2022

I bow before thee sovereign lord , but ask what apart from labeling the chakras yin and Yang what is Daoist about this?

He's big enough to carry me now.

With my familiar, Sophie:

Firstly thank you all for the helpful and warm replies. It's very nice to see and feel how supportive this place can be at times - perhaps we are really building a community here which is what I always hoped for (especially when I was moderating). Second, slight apologies for the melodramatic nature of the the topic title. I did write it from the heart - I have had many varying and strong emotional reactions like this over the years and at certain times they were quite common. I remember one time I received a vajrayana initiation (Amitabha) and when I got home I just sat and wept for hours. On that occasion it wasn't so much rage as regret - that somehow I had to tell my self how hard I had been trying - but failing again and again. My rage when it surfaces is mainly about what others have done to me. I am by nature quite ingenuous and have to learn slowly over years that the intent of others is often disingenuous - so I have in my younger years blundered into situations where others took advantage. What happens I think, is that when this kind of thing is not assimilated or understood it sort of 'pickles' inside where deep down you have the awareness to see but somehow cannot express it to your self. Then when it breaks out it can be hot and angry or bitter and resentful ... etc. etc. @Bindi has often spoken of something called 'spiritual bypassing' where all this inner content is kind of ignored or buried by supposed 'higher thoughts' and wot not (I think I've got that right) - this is a great danger to the likes of us, especially if we form the idea that we are somehow advanced enough to be beyond ordinary human concerns and so on. The other problem is that meditation is currently 'sold' (literally or figuratively) as a way to relaxation and calm. Actually, in my experience meditation (or any spiritual process) is the opposite - it is a great work full of challenge and needing great effort - and particularly the courage to face into those things you would most like to avoid. But again this does not mean indulgence in one's emotions in a way which just feeds self importance - i.e. 'how I feel is the most important thing in the world'. @Taoist Texts stagnation of qi in the liver is interesting - but is this not just a technical description of the bodily store of certain emotion? If the qi moves and causes a feeling like rage - how is that different to rage? Isn't the subtle body qi movement simply the correlate to the human emotions anyway??? Last point perhaps is that I take the view that emotional responses are a positive sign. They are there all the time un-noticed and bringing them into awareness is what is needed even if it is painful.

Anything that can be accomplished by movement and forms can be accomplished without them. Meditation is not meditation. The only guru is you. Most western Buddhists and Daoists are Christian. All of those reading this are incomplete beings. There is nothing wrong with thinking. Everything presented as non-conceptual is essentially conceptual. Jhanas lead to more suffering. Compassion is sheep quietly eating grass waiting for the slaughterman's wagon. To love fully destroys you. Wisdom means to know less.

**** admin statement **** I banned "Sleepy Bluejay" because he's a ####ing ##### ## ####!!!! - Trunk ************************

Not really looking to be comfortable with everyone, thanks anyway. My mother's first husband was the author of "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People"--that's sort of a family perspective for me, I guess... from the Amazon review: Originally published in 1937, "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" is a tongue-in-cheek primer by Irving Tressler on how to achieve more free time and peace by having few, if any, friends and acquaintances. "Some of us are born with ability to make others peeved, but most of us aren't."... I find it's only necessary to be straightforwardly honest to retain my reclusivity.

No, it's absolutely not true. "Someone" who "mentioned it" either made it up or mixed things up. There's a spot in the park nearby which has been used for many years by a bunch of taiji/qigong practitioners on an ongoing basis, year round, chiefly because it's a convenient even-ground spot in dappled shade. The park is large enough but no other spot feels as invigorating. One can feel a subtle influx of qi (if one can feel such things at all) in that spot. The grass gets routinely stepped, stomped, jumped upon, and after some practices (e.g. with the long pole) the ground looks as though a herd of wild horses has been practicing there... and yet the grass grows crazy green as soon as it gets a break, greener than the surrounding areas. In feng shui, it's one of the indicators of a good place that "donates" qi, and (e.g.) people shopping for a house are advised to pay close attention.

There is no conspiracy here. I go by the name Rudi because I don't want random strangers showing up at my house. Some privacy is nice, I do post quite a lot of pics of my time in china and include pictures of me working in hospitals for my degree during the initial seminar. Anyone who took it can confirm it and I am sure some will. I graduated from the Shanghai university of traditional chinese medicine, but I am not offering medical consultation on my website, I am teaching neigong so don't see why I should post my degree. While I was studying in shanghai I needed an income, so set up the company to sell ion generators back in 2016 I believe. I did that for as long as it was needed, then closed the company down in 2021 when I started teaching. I am not going to be paying for a domain or website hosting that I don't use so closed it down. Also, covid pushed up the cost of international shipping so much that the business just wasn't viable anymore. I studied with various teachers, the more well known ones are Master Jiang Feng, after his passing I studied with various other teachers who aren't known in the west so no point mentioning them and now I study with Master Zhou Gan Sheng. Anything else you wana know just ask.

I once had an insight into karma that I'll share FWIW. It has become something that continuously informs my life. It was a very abrupt and spontaneous experience. During meditation one evening I began to see the connections that thread through my life, through the lives of my ancestors and acquaintances, extending into the past, into the future and connecting everything to the present; like fine strands of a spider's web touching and sensing every action and consequence, every thing and every one without exception. I could see how my life is precisely what it is at this moment because of everything that has transpired and that not one piece of the puzzle is, or could possibly be, out of place. There was a deep sense of perfection and gratitude in how it has all come together to make me who and what I am. While I was aware that any one piece, or even the whole, could easily be judged as good or bad, harmful or helpful; in that moment judgement seemed irrelevant. The shear complexity and magnitude of the vast number of interactions and connections became so overwhelming to my mind that I felt as if it were going to explode or break down. Just as I felt I could take no more it spontaneously released, like a safety valve releasing pressure before a rupture, and as the vision passed I was left feeling shaken and vulnerable but also somehow whole and absolutely fine. Ever since then I have been more cognizant of my relationships, in particular my actions and how they affect other living things. The sheer complexity and scale of karma make it difficult for me to approach the subject intellectually and my current approach is similar to what Mark and stirling describe. Rather than trying to figure it out, I trust in the openness and clarity that are present when I am able to allow the discursive mind to rest and open to the immediacy of the present moment. This openness gives rise to actions that are sometimes unexpected or counter-intuitive but somehow appropriate for the situation.

Umm, as a habitual lurker, the conversations on this forum are simply too quick for me to keep up with. I am not on the computer a lot. To post and be involved requires to have the full context of entire threads and the current subject, and I just don't think I can offer the respected amount of investment. I also have nothing much to say. But, I do like to occasionally briefly interact, because I like all of you. Is this odd?

I do not see any reason to keep out lurkers, whether before they become talking members or after, or when they never become a talking member. There is no difference. I would not chuck out silent types out of the pub either.

Claiming to be a "nobody" is fairly common in some spiritual circles. Lots of folks do it, including some who seem very much like somebodies by my (admittedly questionable) standards. Claiming to be "the biggest nobody" though -- wow, that's truly next level self-deprecating aggrandizement. I'm comfortable with my Bum name, Liminal Luke. I've had it for years and to change now would confuse people unnecessarily. Still, it's good to know that the title of Medium-Sized Nobody is still available.

Hello, I just discovered the site via a post from Terence Dunn on Quora. My background is mainly in meditation with some qi gong. The qi gong I've learned is likely not traditional, as I understand that's the case with most of what is taught in the West these days. As I recall the teacher made no great claims about the style's origin, but perhaps that was just humility. I'm interested in learning an authentic style of qi gong in-depth, as opposed to an exotic calisthenics routine. I understand that this is an in-person endeavor requiring more than casual instruction at the local gym. If I'm going to put in the time, might as well be on the road to the right destination. I've studied Chinese and lived in China, as well as Japan, years ago. Although my abilities are rusty, I'm rapidly resurrecting them and planning to take the HSK 6 later this year. As a related part of that effort, I'm looking for a qigong tradition and teacher that I can have confidence in and commit to. I'd also like to supplement this with the study of Chinese medicine, so conversations and information about that are also helpful. Thanks for reading!

I am not always a goof ball lol.

Happy New Year friends! I can't recall a resolution I didn't fail to accomplish... consequently I gave up on making resolutions years ago. That said there are things I do want to challenge myself to focus on this year - deepening relationships with those I care most about, revitalizing my martial arts and fitness routine, playing more chess, and devoting more time to creative expression. I also hope to implement a program to bring meditation instruction to people living with chronic pain. Tonight I'll be spending some quality time with family and had a great time today watching the Ravens play football. Cheers to a prosperous and healthy 2024 to all of my DaoBum friends!

I appreciate this thread being here, particularly as we enter the new Gregorian calendar year. Like everything else, there are things about it I really like and things that I find disappointing. What I really value the most here are the people and relationships. It is fascinating to watch how people express their opinions and interact in all the myriad forms it takes. It is instructive to see just how much they identify with those opinions and perspectives. Even more instructive to realize how I am one of them and to notice how much I can identify with and guard certain positions. It is wonderful to be able to observe what things trigger me here as well as how I feel when people respond to my posts, be it positive, negative, or not at all. I find that these observations can inform how I interact with others in the meat world. Ultimately, what I seem to get out of my time here that is most valuable is the opportunity to see myself through the eyes of all of you, however that may play out. I never see myself as clearly as when I am able to integrate others' perspectives with my own. What I have found disappointing here is the same thing I find disappointing about humanity in general, namely how elusive it is for people with differing opinions and perspectives to show each other respect and a little tolerance, if not genuine care. Similarly, how difficult it is to be open to opinions that differ from our own, being actively willing to embrace, or at least tolerate for a while, something that challenges our own closely held positions. So a big THANK YOU to everyone here for being a part of my own personal journey. I wish you all a joyful and healthy 2024!

I’ll add my voice to the no camp. This forum already has a very broad focus and discussion of Abrahamic traditions in the way @NaturaNaturans suggests already occurs as the occasional General Discussion thread. That arrangement has catered sufficiently for interest in those traditions in the past and I see no reason to change it. More than this, I consider stretching the focus of this forum further by giving a dedicated space to Abrahamic traditions would be detrimental to its underlying identity as a place to explore Eastern Traditions, and detrimental to our loose sense of community as people who do not hold to those dominant monotheistic theologies of Christianity and Islam which more than half the world’s population identify as. Those traditions already have a strong voice, no need to elevate their status here.

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad? Ill kick of the discussion with two of my favorite qoutes: “I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.” ― Joseph Campbell “No one imagines that a symphony is supposed to improve as it goes along, or that the whole object of playing is to reach the finale. The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.” ― Alan Watts

@roamthevoid It's your path in this life. Only you can walk it. In my experience, there's one source from which all arises and to which, all returns. Due too this, I tend toward a fearlessness in exploration of consciousness and energetic exchange. The use of elixirs, pills and a wide variety of intense and sometimes deadly substances is well documented in myriad sects of classical and modern daoism and many other traditions. The list is nigh on endless. Entheogenic use is foundational in shamanic processes across all traditions among the origins of our kind for a reason. So I don't put much stock in the fundamentalist conservative bend of recent times and the over simplification in villifying all plants (or coffee, chocolate and rice). We have cannibanoid receptors in our brains, this is a fact. Myriad substances affect and have effect on our awareness. Nature does not waste anything. We are in constant relationship with our environment. Yet this does not imply all things are beneficial at all stages in our process. Only you'll be able to distinguish the effects on your mind and body, but you can benefit greatly from a teacher in an established lineage with a history of prior exploration. Stranger's opinions on the internet carry no value with me and rigid 'one way' thinking is always an enormous red flag. Folks who claim one way with absolute certainty are usually selling something, even if it's not monetary but in propping up their authority ego. Far more important to me than the effect of cannabis on my meditations would be access to a lineage and a teacher in whom I could trust. If it were me and I didn't have an in person teacher or much experience, I'd not put much stock in the opinions of folks who habituate online forums (yea this includes me)... I'd keep things very simple and direct my energy toward finding a teacher and then let the questions flow. In the absence of a teacher, explore as you can and reject whatever does not bring benefit. At the origin of every established lineage, was a human being, exploring his or her own consciousness. This is our primary birthright and no one can tell you with impunity what can work for you.

Did you know, that what is thought to be the first ever-recorded-in-history economic bubble to occur, revolved around the tulip? In the 17th century, tulips became a revered luxury. Europe was completely enamored with their modest, neatly-folded petals that betrayed nothing within. It caused a major economic bubble, with some varieties, most famously the now-extinct Semper Augustus, sold for as high as what's estimated to be the equivalent of $178,200. The Semper Augustus was an example of a 'broken' tulip cultivar, a tulip that bloomed with dual clashing colors in intricate patterns across the petals. The culprit was a type of mosaic virus. The primary visible pigment of a tulip is within the epidermis, but those infected with the tulip breaking virus, the epidermis becomes separated from the mesophyll layer which causes the secondary color to become visible. This disease brought out a hidden beauty that could not be seen normally within healthy flowers. The thing with tulips is that when reproducing, their seeds sprout with only a slight resemblance to the parent. The only way to reproduce a specific cultivar is to clone it through division. (This, of course, is just like the fruit trees we love to eat, which we clone through grafting.) In the case with broken tulips, the plants are already diseased and in a weakened state. They are doomed to extinction. The plants would stop producing bulbs and can no longer be circulated. As a result, the Semper Augustus no longer exists. Broken tulips are not the only tulip cultivars that are incredibly fleeting, though. Due to cultivars only circulating based on public interest, and the fact they can only be replicated by cloning, any varieties that have fallen out of favor will naturally cease to exist. Broken tulips were treasured for their beauty, but they were beautiful because they were diseased. They were doomed to die. Maybe to some they were magical, an unexplainable mystery, but it was generally suspected that a tulip 'breaking' was due to a disease. In fact, knowing that they were fleeting was a contributing factor to their beauty, and made them even more highly valued. Secondly, even healthy cultivars seem to be eventually doomed and unsustainable. Randomized genetics is a product of evolution, and many plants reproduce like this for a reason. The world is constantly changing. The reason for producing offspring with a completely spontaneous outcome, is for survival. Diseases are constantly changing and evolving to survive, and their survival involves taking advantage of and even killing host plants. In order to combat disease, plants must constantly change and evolve alongside it. When producing random genes in offspring, you have higher chances of producing a single offspring that can withstand disease and a changing climate. By cloning these plants, humans deprive them of their method for survival. Humans like to see themselves as completely separate from nature. Nature is something to be controlled and conquered. Cloned varieties of plants are a symbol of this control, and the Semper Augustus seems to me an even more-so grotesque example, through the preservation of a plant known to be diseased. I am running out of time here, but I thought this might be a good conversation topic. It is a good example of clinging, stagnation, and attempted control over nature. Whether it's the monocultures of factory farms, grafted century old clones of fruit trees that are all doomed to the fate of the Gros Michel banana, the reveration of cloned tulips riddled with disease, and overconsumption of resources to grow specific crops in areas that will no longer support them...they all share the same thing, which is the false assumption that we are separated from nature, and that nature is something that can be controlled, instead of something to embrace and live alongside. This is something I care a lot about, and I think about it often. I would like to hear what you all think about it. I'm not sure of this necessarily counts as 'spiritual discussion,' so I put it in rabbit hole instead. Sorry if this is kind of random, I just want to try to be a bit more social... I hope you at least find the Semper Augustus interesting.

To answer the OP; yes, I play with Chinese Classical Martial Arts. My experience is that I owe my good health to these classics. Baguazhang remade me from an old guy gasping for his last struggling breath to now, fourteen years later, and if we count age by how many solar years or Moon cycles, at my place of employment, which has had as many as 400 employees, me being second oldest, yet fastest on my feet, with my hands, and my mind, and express the most endurance.This isn’t even debatable. at first my goal was better health, and I’ve received more than I ever expected. Then, energetics became what I’ve enjoyed playing with. Subtle although Deep. I was tested all year in 2019, at age 60 by an entire town. They failed to subdue me, even after every dirty trick they tried. Other Chinese Arts have benefited me as well. I’ve experienced things beyond my imagination. I rarely speak about any of it. I didn’t enter these arts with the intentions of being some brawler, or tough guy, and I am certainly not those. I don’t spar. I look very average. Although, 99% guess my age at least twenty years less than I am. Ive read several threads on this forum about various martial arts, hard, soft, etc imo there are countless variables involved as to why or why not they are useful, beneficial, harmful, what have ya. my experiences with these arts are that they not only sustain me, they carry me to new thresholds and gates. I am extremely grateful what they’ve provided for me.

I started off doing a sort of semi retreat at a couple of Buddhist retreat centres in Europe. Semi means volunteering in some capacity with what positions were available at the time, in exchange for partial board. Got lots of free time to participate in group meditation, or not. Sometimes teachers would visit and the option to enrol for their teachings is offered, usually at a reduced rate. Durations of stay may vary from 2 weeks to even a year, depending. There have been instances where extensions of stay were offered, and accepted. This usually happens over the summer when activity is brisk. For the first semi-retreat, I'd initially only planned a 3-month sojourn, but ended up remaining for another 9 months. At one of the centres, i was assigned to assist with running the hostel under the guidance of the hostel warden. Mainly housekeeping work, plus managing bookings. Easy work. Was given a free bed, one free lunch per day, and free use of the meditation hall. It was very interesting, all in all. Naturally, all the volunteers would render additional assistance when & where necessary. Like many times I'd help out in the kitchen whenever big retreats took place. Always a good buzz though. Many retreat centres offer such exchange programs. Information usually found on their websites. This approach will be a good eye opener. Then you'll get a taste what retreats entail without having to burn any bridges... yet. After that, you can decide if you want to take it to the next level. Most of these centres are supervised by seasoned retreatants who'll likely be all too happy to share their own experiences once the connection has been made. All the best.