Apech
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Everything posted by Apech
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Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
I enjoy Hancock for the same reason you seem to loathe him. Although I do recall throwing Fingerprints of the Gods across the room in exasperation. But I'll still watch him on Rogan when he appears. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
mea culpa. I was chatting to Michael and Hancocks new book came up - so I posted it here. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
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orgasm at a distance
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Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
You want fries with your ratburger? -
Its very odd that what is a legitimate harmonisation technique devolves to characterising the subject as a female 'victim'. The opposite of harmony. This kind of thing does seem to attract manipulative people. I'm not saying it won't work in some way - but for your own sake watch your intent.
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Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Its not really that remote (you mentioned 90 miles - but I have read that it has also been discovered in Asia Minor.) We know that neolithic peoples traded in valuable materials, especially those useful for tools quite widely. All it takes is a barter system, boats and people willing to travel. And not necessarily vastly long distances but just to various trading points - so no need for advanced maritime technology as you put it. You are right that there has been a very limited view of the capacities of pre-historic cultures - although this is now changed/changing - because of the archeological evidence. the whole Atlantis thing - needs just that - hard evidence and not speculation IMO. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
An obsidian in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think its an Apple iObsidian. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Nothing in this is 'advanced' its just that the mesolithic cultures were capable of more than we originally gave them credit for. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Interesting on mesolithic culture etc. -
Welcome and enjoy your stay at DBs.
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Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
The only people inhabiting Europe prior to 10kya were the Western Hunter Gatherers according to both the archeological record and genetics. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
They've been shipped to Atlantis. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Sure its more nuanced than a simple invasion - but the Sea People were part of the collapse of the Hittites etc. Although Egypt did decline after this (actually it was already declining slowly anyway) - the victory by Ram III did at least ensure that the culture of Egypt remained intact. It is one of the reasons Egypt is so significant as it is the only (?) example of a Bronze Age culture persisting through to the Roman period - only finally destroyed eventually by the Christianification under the Roman Empire. I have read that after Ram III's victory the Sea People dispersed and one tribe returned to the Levant and were the Phillistines of the Bible. I'm not sure if this is in line with current theories but it was certainly at one time thought to be the case. I stand with the Sea Peoples - je suis un personne de mar. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
That's the Sea People - who were stopped in the delta by Ram III presumably. The link only opens a short intro for me. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
On the genetics of the Americas, particularly South America watch from 56 mins. At about 1.02 hr he mentions a population change at about 9000 years ago (unexplained). -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
I know the comet impact has some evidence for it, not least the recent crater found under the Greenland ice. If we accept for a moment that these stories are grounded in some actual history we still need evidence. That is not evidence. Good, thanks. So some parts of earths surface were relatively unaffected by the climatic variations. Which should narrow down the search somewhat. yes it might. but they might have been grinding wild grass seeds - which we know that hunter gatherers did harvest - but this indicates a nomadic lifestyle since they would move from place to place depending on which natural vegetation and game was abundant seasonally. That's a whole string of maybes. Genetics has moved on even since 2014, in the last few years they have mapped the genomes for many ancient humans and mapped out the relations between groups. There is actually a finding about a non-Clovis related group of unknown origin dating to, from memory about 9000 BC - which might be your guys. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Plato used the Atlantis story to write a critique of society and government. I think it is likely that as an Athenian he would characterise the Atlanteans as being city dwellers and so on. But it is possible that he only had a sketchy idea of what they were like or how they lived. He may have invented the war with the Atlanteans as part of his narrative rather than a received historical fact. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Yes sorry I was a bit vague - but if they were destroyed at the end of the last ice age they must have lived during it. Well yes in a way, but the lack of fixed land for agriculture means they would be migratory like early neolithic and mesolithic peoples were. What? They were wiped out by disease? Good point - but its a critique of Plato's narrative rather than the general idea. The recent work on the human genome is fairly extensive. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Come on guys, this is turning into the Nungali vs. Micheal thread. You come from different perspectives ... good! As long as we share opinions openly what's the problem? If I was investigating this subject I would take the minimalist approach, in other words what are the least key facts you would have to substantiate to advance the Atlantis idea. For me these would be: 1. a pre Ice Age culture/civilisation which was destroyed by advancing sea levels (cataclysmically). 2. a knowledge of at least advance stone working and megalith structures 3. some knowledge of astronomy (observations over long periods of time) 4. ability to plan and execute large scale architecture Problems: 1. 500,000 years of last ice ages had erratic climatic conditions - what kind of culture could survive this 2. no evidence of agriculture pre around 6000 BC (?) so what food source? 3. if Atlantis was destroyed around 10,000 BC then presumably they went to Anatolia and taught the Gobekli Tepe hunter gatherers to build ... but then what? 4. if you back date the GP to 10,000 BC then what did they do between then and the dynastic period? how do you explain pre-dynastic cultures (primitive) 5. Genetic science has mapped modern human genetic ancestry without any Atlantean involvement - how is this explained? 6. Nothing from archeology/fossil record suggest Atlantean involvement (as far as I know) Possible 1. the idea of Atlantis is actually a 'memory' of early neolithic (or even mesolithic) cultures which were far more sophisticated and complex than is generally understood - coastal dwelling hunter gatherer megalith builders. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Nothing basically. I have never been interested in the engineering side of Egyptology and never given it more than cursory thought. I am more interested in why they built it, what it was for and what it meant to them - than the how, which I leave to others. -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
Interesting! https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2019/mar/11/a-big-jump-people-might-have-lived-in-australia-twice-as-long-as-we-thought?fbclid=IwAR3ykgO4UGfiymylmli-G1dTUP7P7L-cwbswkDM3rk2RrUmKGmrYrSmYkV8 "Extensive archaeological research in southern Victoria has again raised the prospect that people have lived in Australia for 120,000 years – twice as long as the broadly accepted period of human continental habitation. The research, with its contentious potential implications for Indigenous habitation of the continent that came to be Australia, has been presented to the Royal Society of Victoria by a group of academics including Jim Bowler, the eminent 88-year-old geologist who in 1969 and 1974 discovered the bones of Mungo Lady and Mungo Man, the oldest human remains found in Australia. Mungo Man, his remains discovered in a dry water bed in the Willandra Lakes district of New South Wales, lived some 42,000 years ago. He was a modern human or homo sapien, Indigenous to Australia, who was buried with sophisticated funerary rites including the use of fire and ochre." "The article’s abstract reads: “Thermal luminescence analyses of blackened stones provide ages in the ... range ... 100-130 ka [thousand years], consistent with independent stratigraphic evidence and contemporaneous with the age of the surface in which they lie. The distribution of fire-darkened stones is inconsistent with wildfire effects. Two hearth-like features closely associated with the disconformity provide further indication of potential human agency. The data are consistent with the suggestion of human presence at Warrnambool during the last Interglacial.”" “The prospect, however, of humans in that locality at 120 ka [years ago], although consistent with evidence presents more questions than answers. Who were they? Why here and not elsewhere? Why no legacy of any toolkit, no traces of food let alone human remains? In the absence of bones, stone flakes or any independent trace of people, the notion of occupation at 120 ka currently remains difficult to credit. However, marine shells, stones in unexplained depositional context and fire resemblance to hearth, successively diminish the possibility of a natural explanation. That absence leaves the currently unlikely option of human agency as the most likely alternative.” -
Story of Atlantis Part 1 - Ice Age and Deluge
Apech replied to Michael Sternbach's topic in The Rabbit Hole
I am agnostic on Atlantis - but even that doesn't mean anything until you say with some precision what is meant by it. For instance when and for how long did this 'civilisation' exist. In what sense was it advanced? What technology would it have to have? Where according to the proposed 'influenced' cultures such as Egypt and Gobekli Tepe and so on would we expect it to be? As far as Plato is concerned how far is his description reflective of Athens i.e. a city state and so on. Perhaps this is just back projection after all. I think what we can be certain of is that Neolithic man (the hunter gatherers) were capable of much more then we give them credit for. They may have had more complex and distributed social networks, idea and knowledge about the world. Perhaps one problem might be that when anthropologists study modern hunter gatherers they are actually looking at marginal societies - whereas when this was the only lifestyle of mankind then things were different. -
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I'm resisting the temptation to post a Monty Python 'we found a witch may we burn her' video link.
