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Practicing nei dan from whatever you read on tdb will lead you to hell, a quite personal hell, because you are practicing wrong. Find a realized teacher.

Happy shortest day everyone!

This was a fascinating read. I find the sky-father deities and twin progenitors to be the weakest part of the argument. Those patterns show up in too many cultures to carry much weight on their own. I've always been interested in the appearance of a threefold pattern in the Daodejing, so that catches my eye. What intrigues me most, given my interests, is the proposed connection between Xi Wangmu, the Queen Mother of the West, and Kubala of Carchemish, Great Mother of the Mountains (and later as Cybele of Anatolia, Queen of Heaven and Earth.) I also think it's interesting that the Yijing trigram names may be Indo-European words, that the heavenly stems and earthly branches share a very old source with the Phoenician alphabet, and that Old Chinese itself may hold many Indo-European loanwords. It is clear there was real contact, influence, and exchange between these worlds. My question is, if Indo-Europeans created the Yijing and the Daodejing as distinct systems, separate from early Chinese culture, where is that system now in their own traditions? China, despite repeated waves of loss and destruction, has held onto these texts and developed their philosophy for thousands of years. If the deeper origin really lay with Indo-Europeans, where is the parallel, continuous lineage on their side? ---------------- 1. Mythological and Religious Parallels between Early China and Indo-Europeans • Sky Father Deities • Twin Progenitors and Sibling-Creators • Tripartite Functions and the Three Sovereigns • Western Paradise and the Queen Mother • Kunlun Mountain and the Cosmic Pillar • Jade, Immortality, and Steppe Connections • Foreign Ancestry of Culture Heroes 2. Linguistic and Textual Evidence (Yijing Trigrams and Language Contacts) • Yi Jing Trigram Names as Indo-European Words • Binary Structure and Yin–Yang Dualism as Indo-European Pattern • Heavenly Stems / Phoenician Alphabet Parallels • Old Chinese Loanwords from Indo-European Languages • Feudalism and Social Structure Parallels 3. Cultural and Philosophical Comparisons • Nomadic vs. Sedentary Lifestyle Fusion • Mandate of Heaven and Indo-European Moral Kingship • Chariot Technology and Warrior Aristocracy • Recording of History and Philosophical Consciousness 4. Archaeological, Genetic, and Migration Evidence • Tarim Basin Caucasian Mummies • Europoid Skulls at Anyang • Chariot and Horse Burials in Western Zhou • Steppe Cultural Motifs in Bronze, Art, and Tools • Migrations of Yuezhi, Wusun, Qiang, and Western Rong Near Zhou

The common tactic among Western teachers is to take the simplest practice possible, overcomplicate it with made-up nonsense, create artificial barriers, and then sell it in tiny pieces for as long as they can. If they didn’t do this, they’d run out of material to teach in a week or a month. I’ve seen Damien “Standing Post aka Zhan Zhuang” course. For about 6–8 hours he teaches almost nothing of value with 99% of the information tied to basic physical posture. He has zero knowledge of the energetic aspects of the practice, no understanding of the upper and lower channels, and he clearly has no clue that you need a specific mental state and develop meditation skills to gain any real benefit from the posture itself. It’s basically like a kindergartener stealing a high-school math textbook written in a foreign language, ripping out all the important chapters, and then teaching other kids how to draw carrots and cucumbers so they can count to 10. In Chinese tradition it's very common to just give students the basic stuff like physical postures and hold back the real 99% of valuable info until the person proves they're trustworthy, loyal, hardworking, talented, etc. That's why you get all these "early graduates" who basically got kicked out by Teacher. The simplest way to ditch someone annoying is to pump up their ego: "You've learned everything, you're a master now, go spread the word!"

It is typical in daoist thought that things are described in either the physical or the subtle. An example in neidan would be how a internal subtle change is made, which then will cascade leading to change in the external. An example of the opposite is in wuji stance, you let gravity pull you towards the earth, this constant pulling leads to small stretches of your relaxed muscles, which will lead to development of more Huang which in turn will lead to better qi conduction. From the physical to the subtle. I think it's completely valid to drag in physics and biology/chemistry into the equation, but the question should be where in the cascading process do they fit in, in whatever specific circumstance is being discussed. As a daoist you'd either make a small change that sets off a natural chain of responses, or strengthen an already ongoing natural process, to either speed it up or because the strengthened accumulation will result in an effect the weaker process couldn't make happen without the strengthening. From an internal arts perspective that is... A long rambling basically to say that i agree As for what concepts are related or not, that's probably as much of a matter of perspective and personal opinion or even preference for how minute or detailed things should be laid out.

The dzogchen path that I follow is one that is guilty of using such terminology. Dzogchen literally means great (chen) perfection (dzog). As Keith suggests, to the Western ear a more palatable and equally valid translation would be great completion. In this context, perfect or complete does not imply a value judgement from the human perspective. It is more a recognition of the spontaneous presence of all enlightened qualities in our natural mind, always present and awaiting discovery. It suggests that we don't need to add or subtract anything or change anything to have access to unlimited potential for enlightened activity. We simply need to be open and unimpeded by our tendency to "collapse the wave function" (to borrow some quantum mechanics language); by our tendency to over-identify with a limited sense of "me" that excludes so many possibilities. For me this has strong parallels in Daoism, a few examples being concepts like ziran and wuwei, as well as the idea that Heaven, Earth, and the sage not being humane/benevolent but regarding people as straw dogs. In attending many dzogchen retreats over the past decade or so, this is one of the areas that causes the most consternation and frustration among developing practitioners. Of course there are many terrible things in the world, people suffer greatly and this is absolutely acknowledged in dzogchen and serves as the very basis and purpose for engaging in practice - namely, to liberate one's own being in order to benefit others. From the perspective of the samsaric being, the world can be a very tough, unforgiving, and dangerous place. From the absolute perspective, everything that arises is simply a function of the workings of karma and dependent origination. There is a sense of perfection or completeness in terms of the fact that if anything is changed, everything else changes. Nothing can be added or taken away or things would not be as they are. In this sense the whole is perfect and complete. I wonder if there is a parallel in Hindu systems relative to the inherent perfection/completeness of Brahman relative to the incompleteness and imperfection of maya... or something like that?

With the use of AI you can reach the AI (artificial immortality). I have not heard someone has achieved it but who knows may be you will be the first one in history who will achieve it.

There is an interesting Bönpo practice that is intended to actively exhaust the thinking mind so that it can release into stillness. You reflect on actions of the body, speech, and mind (each individually), taking enough time to really feel and pay attention to how much energy and effort have been expended over time, going as far back in memory as possible. Take as much time as necessary to get a sense of the shear magnitude of all of that expended effort and energy. When the experience reaches a peak and feels overwhelming, you simply let all of it go and rest in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness of the present moment, similar to the feeling of returning home from a long journey or exhausting day of work and settling into your favorite chair or bed and fully allowing body and mind to rest. It's a powerful technique.

As an incomplete saint I help grandmothers halfway across the street. Not perfect but working on it.

ok If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

I think I'll keep them– these rhythms, this reverence. All else I release.

I suggest you read more. All schools are so different. e.g. not all use LDT.

Maurice Druon, The Accursed Kings historical novels -- read them all as a teenager. For a while they made me an expert in medieval French history. I remember little by now, but I did remember the story of Jacques de Molay and was under the impression, for many years, that the curse concerned not just the Capetian dynasty but all of Europe. I don't remember why I interpreted it this way, but there you have it. The dynasty that went a long time before that one, the Merovingians, I find particularly interesting. In their heyday they established the largest kingdom in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman empire (if there really was such a thing as "the fall" -- to me it seems more like the refurbishing/recalibration). What I find special about them is that to this day, chronicles exist that officially derive their genealogy from a sea monster, a “quinotaur,” who had a relationship with the ancestress and produced Meroveh, the founder of the dynasty. This gave the dynasty sacral pre-Christian legitimacy—a ruler whose authority comes from the sea/chaos/the Other. (Just like Chinese emperors who derive their Mandate to rule from the dragon. Chinese dragons spend the first one thousand years as water creatures, then develop flight and take to the sky, the mountains, and the imperial court, as the case may be.)

I just can’t imagine practicing qigong or tai chi for decades and not ever feeling qi. Surely the thought that there might be something wrong with whatever you are practicing must have occurred once.

Putting into question the existence of Chi and the Dao on a mainly daoist forum in a topic about the practice of neidan...... I'll leave it at that...

I found this article on Qi to be interesting. Can't say I agree with everything it says but some here may appreciate it. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10874819/ Despite its growing utility I would urge some caution in relying too heavily on AI to explain neidan, among other things, regardless of language. AI does not have the power of human discernment, something I consider important when it comes to meaningful understanding.

I have disagreed with some of your conclusions but I can see you’ve put a lot of work into this. I agree that qi=energy is weak and think that it should be just left as qi in translations. For me the distinction around neidan is about the Dan, the elixir or pill for immortality (ultimately). I think I am right in saying that (it’s been a while since I studied this) the birth of neidan as separate from external alchemy is first documented in the cantong qi and that terms from external ‘chemical’ alchemy were applied to internal subtle substances. This is why jing, qi and so on are conceived of as substances. Thank you for taking the time to do the translation.

Ah i think I see the mismatch, chidragon have you experienced and do you believe in energetic phenomena? Its pretty much the foundation of neidan, the belief through experience that there are three energetic treasures in the human body being jing, qi, and shen Every neidan classic details the methods of working with and transforming these three non-physical substances and the non-physical effects that begin to be perceived that indicate correct practice I think most qigong can be "clinical" as in completely attributed to the physical body like you describe, but neidan specifically requires the philosophical backing of an energetic system, otherwise you wouldn't have anything to transform What you're talking about is definitely interesting, it just isn't neidan as is practiced by people from the lineages here such as dragons gate, wuliupai, or the greater quanzhen tradition all of which are primary sources

AI and translator are only effective if the person is well versed with the subject and is able to find out the mistakes and correct them. If a person only reads a few websites and think he already knows everything and then use AI/translator, the result would be a disaster. Post such result on the web would spread the wrongs to subsequent usage by everyone. I do not trust AI as it even can't give correct info like fare, opening hours and so on.

Imagine thinking that AI would know information passed down orally by humans

While it is true that not everybody has the obligation to know what neidan is, mainly because it is, perhaps, the less spread of the spiritual systems, the misinformation that qigong and neidan are the same has to be stopped. We know that qigong is a modern umbrella term for several traditional practices more or less adapted (and sometimes diluted). Practices like yangsheng (not to be confused with yangshen), daoyin, neigong (either martial or medical), etc. were fused in one model: qigong. But neidan was not part of this process, although some neidan methods can be found from time to time in qigong systems. Besides, there is the difference in method and energy used (already explained by Antares).

Very refreshing. In my then-atheistic old country we used to celebrate the New Year with the same gusto that was reserved for Christmas in the non-atheistic parts of the world. This is the picture of the last New Year's tree I saw, located within a short walking distance from where I lived. It wasn't the main one in the city, and therefore not the biggest -- but it was nice, and fully real. Our Grandfather Frost is not unlike Santa, but dresses somewhat differently (the hat especially) and doesn't go down the chimney, nor scrutinizes kids for who's naughty and who's nice, everybody gets a present. Adults didn't exchange presents, those were exclusively for kids -- whereas adults just threw and/or attended a party, usually the biggest party of the year.

Someone who says things like "all is perfect" but doesn't have that as their lived experience is actually creating MORE suffering for themselves and deserves compassion. In reality the "transcendent" doesn't exist. There is nothing to transcend. What one might think of the transcendent is always RIGHT HERE. When someone with this understanding says that things are "perfect", they don't mean "ideal" they mean that they can't be any other way in this moment. The causes and conditions of this moment have come together to create things as they are right now. This isn't ever a denial of suffering, it is a statement of how things are. The only reason for a person to continue speaking teachings is to benefit others, and compassion for the suffering of others is generally what drives that. Parroting teachings even by someone who doesn't have the realization to go with it can be beneficial, but denying the reality of someone's experience of suffering isn't kind, it's true. Someone with "attainment" would want to be of benefit to those who are suffering.

Hi BigSkyDaimond, Sorry to take so long to chime in. I'm glad that you've shared with the FP community that you found "Bending the Bows" generates the most energy "flow." Although it may be hard to find because this thread is now in its 16th year, I posted in the first year--seconding someone else's comment that he had gotten enougn consisten high energy cultivation from BTBows that he called it a "cornerstone" or fundament of the FP moving meditations. I explained back then--and I'll repeat it here--that almost as soon as I did about 5 rounds of BTBows the first time that I tried it (I remember it was in La Cienega Park in L.A. at night), I was astonished (and then afterwards delighted) to feel that my Tai Chi had just spontaneously and dramatically been improved-transformed and empowered. In terms of my Tai Chi body mechanics becoming much more effortless and spontaneous. Deep energy connections were made. My head was full of alert energy and my energy was uniform throughout my body. This was 1991, the year that I started training with GM Doo Wai. I had been doing Tai Chi a solid 11 years (as I had started with Master Abraham Liu, a senior student of Prof. Cheng Man-ching, in 1980). So I was totally surprised and jazz'd when I felt BTBows enhanced the Tai Chi that was in me at the time. So all that is to say that you have joined a good number of other FP practitioners who posted the same findings in the earlier years of this thread...that Bending the Bows is a "supercharger" meditation. It's fine to take it easy and pull back the frequency of practice and how many rounds you do in a practice session. But I wanto to remind you and all other practitioners that the standard orthodox practice is one set of 18 rounds. Once a day or even once every other day is fine and good for health, immunity and strength. But try to work you way up--if you haven't already--to 18 repetitions in a set. If you get to the point again where you feel that the internal power generated is "too much", then stop. And you might try "rounding" and "grounding" things like excessive cultivation by doing any one or more of the first 3 stationary standing Meds. on Vol.1--Monk Holding Pearl, Monk Holding Peach, Monk Gazing At The Moon--for a couple of minutes. Also, an excellent way top hit the "RESET" button when you feel too much intensity, excess, or imbalance of energy is to do Monk Holding the Pearl (50 40 30 20 10) lying supine (with hands on the lower tan tien). Over the many years, I've found this to be a nice "RESET" method that only soothes and evens out almost any type of imbalance in the Qi flow. So thanks for sharing your findings about Bending the Bows. Play with it more along the general guidelines I've restated here...so you can enjoy it more and derive more benefits over the long run. Happy Holidays. Sifu Terry https://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html terencedunn.substack.com

Within, lantern warms the scholar's simple study -- books, brushes, inks, cats.

Don’t make me facepalm you 😀

I think the level analogy may be misleading, because it implies there is something to gain. I like the melting analogy (this is in classic Zen literature, such as Hakuin and Chinul) better because it captures the process a bit more precisely in my mind. A few points: 1. It is not either/or, it is a spectrum. Melting ice takes time, but there are certainly degrees. 2. It is about relaxing and letting go rather than picking something up. We have everything we already need, there is not something new to add. Rather, it is about opening and expanding more than anything. 3. The process is natural refines the more you do it. At first, it may be very gross, very conceptual, very effortful. These tend to reduce naturally on their own with practice. Ice is ice. A rough block sitting outside and a finely sculpted castle look very different, and function very differently, but their nature is the same.

My experience is that precisely the opposite is true. Realizing that "you" have never HAD control is the way forward. Mastering stillness from a Zen perspective is very much similar to the classic Tao model - you simply stop pushing against reality with your thinking mind. You stop feeding the cycle of thoughts and eventually the thinking mind tires and stillness arises naturally.

I thank all of you for the replies. Greatly appreciated. Personally doubt being enlightened at all. Just have a mind that is curious about the truth. Like the saying goes, there are three things that can not hide forever The Sun, the Moon and the Truth. I know the first two. Still working on the last one. Wonder about the world and its mysteries? Yeah, being a simple person, I do wonder at things I just don't understand. For example, why observing the electrons passing thru the double slit would change the outcome of the pattern behind the double slit? My wondering doesn't change anything. Other than confuse my mind for a moment. Then move onto other things. The world is full of paradoxes. And as human, we all just live with what there is. Being on a Forum allows me to express my thoughts and learn. I think learning is what keeps one open to new possibilities.

Since my inhibitory impulses are out of control, I´ll take the Devil´s Advocate position and say that control is usually illusory, overrated, often desired and seldom achieved. The whole idea of control is perhaps misconception Numero Uno. Seems to me that the more we try to be in control and less we are. If control is possible at all, I think it requires humility and surrender, requires us, in short, to be less and less controlling.

@PestiferMundi "-!Answer!-" 1.1. Name of the qigong training method that allowed you to feel qi energy for the first time (really important that it's the first time, as doing something comes a lot easier once you've experienced it once, and practicing other things after that first time may have only been effective because of that first time)? Flying Phoenix 1.2. If it wasn't exactly qigong (Chinese origin) but of some other origin (e.g. Korean "Sundo" or Japanese "Kiko"), what is it and where does it originate (answer all of the following questions as you would if it was a qigong method)? N/A 1.3. State the source of the qigong training method (book, course, etc. - include the author/creator name) - Not quite sure about the forum rules, but if you aren't allowed to directly link to it because it's seen as "advertising" or something else unacceptable, I'm sure you can at least just state the name of it and the name of the author/creator. DVDs and zoom lessons with Sifu Terry 2. What was the qi energy experience and what made it "undeniable" to you that it was qi energy (what distinguishes it from all the other body sensations or energetic experiences you've already had, that made you believe it was qi)? Felt like a cool menthol heat moving around my body. Not a feeling that occurs naturally. 3. What should one avoid doing during practice that may unintentionally get in the way of generating that energetic experience (if the source you stated already goes into detail about this then you can just say to refer to the source material)? Don’t overthink or be too tense, just relax 4. Were you using any herbs, drugs, or hallucinogenic substances within a week of that experience, or on the very day of that experience? No 5. How long did you practice before you first had that experience? (e.g. around 1 month)? About a week 6. How often did you practice (e.g. every day or only on weekends), how long was the practice session (e.g. 20 minutes), and how many sessions (e.g. two 20 minute sessions per day or one session)? Every day for 2 hours 7.1. Did you practice any martial arts prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? No 7.2. If yes to Question 7.1, is the martial art you practiced directly related to the qigong method (e.g. The Yiquan martial art from my observation basically has a hardwired qigong training method - Zhan Zhuang)? N/A 8. Did you practice any kind of occult/meditative exercises prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? No 9. If you are willing, include any other details you think would be relevant to the training and the goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time? Practice every day 10. What are the possible risks of the method if overdone, if not done properly, or even if done properly as the method is "extreme" (assuming the practice bears such risks)? Zero 11. Does the method have advanced levels/goals after the first bare minimum goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time and what are they? (e.g. Flying Phoenix Qigong has multiple volume dvds, never tried it but if the volume 1 standing exercises allowed me to feel qi energy, the next obvious step would be to continue training it and then move onto the volume 2 seated meditations, but not all qigong methods have such a clear and outlined path so that's why I'm asking this question)? Yes, progress to the next dvds and then have lessons with Sifu Terry for the advanced practices ——————————————————— If you want to try what Flying Phoenix feels like before getting the DVDs or starting lessons with Sifu Terry, check out this video of GM Doo Wai doing the “Monk Holds Pearl” exercise: You can do it standing, seated or lying down. You can ignore the part about the ginger. Try it out and let me know how it feels!

Yes, it does translate to metaphysics. 玄: dark, deep, hidden, or mysterious. 学: study, learning, or a field of knowledge. Historically, 玄学 also refers to a Chinese school of thought from the Wei–Jin period, and a scholastic approach to earlier Daoist texts. So our ability to determine whether all discussions of the Dao are "xuanxue" depends on which definition we use. Metaphysics is the study of the unseen, unknown, the mysterious. It is the study of the underlying fabric of reality. So all study of the Dao is literal 玄学. But the idea that the Dao is emptiness and ziran is the expression of this emptiness (the original inquiry of the thread), is strongly developed from the historical, scholastic 玄学 movement. This view influences much of how we discuss the Dao in modern context. Before the Wei–Jin 玄学 movement, Daoist discussion was framed less as an exact, comprehensively designed system, and more like guidance for living, governing, and cultivating life. As you know, in early texts like the Daodejing and Zhuangzi, the Dao is usually pointed to through images, paradox, and lived examples. You get lines like “the Dao that can be spoken is not the constant Dao,” or stories that show how forced control backfires. The focus stays on how to move through life: wuwei (not forcing), softness, timing, simplicity, protecting your vitality, and letting patterns unfold. Even when they use words like 无 (wu), it often works like “the generative absence that makes functions possible” (like the empty hub of a wheel, or the empty space in a bowl), rather than “emptiness” as a full metaphysical theory. And 自然 (ziran) reads more like “so-of-itself” or “things unfolding on their own,” not “the expression of emptiness." But the Wei–Jin 玄学 approach shifts the focus. It takes those earlier Daoist lines and tries to make them philosophically exact and defensible, which are later blended with Buddhist concepts: debates about 有/无 (being/non-being), what is “root” (本) and what is “branch” (末), and how a deeper “source” relates to the visible world. Commentarial reading becomes a major method, and the Dao starts getting discussed in more systematic, abstract terms–often as the underlying “non-being” that grounds “being,” with ziran framed as how that ground shows up in the world. That scholastic style is a big reason modern discussions of Dao define it as emptiness. So 玄学 describes the study of the unknown, and it also describes a historical movement that sought to define the unknown in exact, and yet paradoxically more abstract terms.

I see it more as a meta-theory about how magic works. Basically, it puts the center of power in the individual instead of external authorities or powers, such as God, gods, planets, archons, correspondences, etc. So if you can invoke a proper state of mind summoning Cthulhu, it doesn't matter whether or not here is an external being that matches it. I don't think it (or any magical system) generally works because I don't think most people honestly think it will work. I think the mental habits need to be a bit more fluid than average.

100% wrong.

Hi! The ttc is super hard to translate because of all of the metaphorical language, in this particular case you're running into a common beginners trap But yes absolutely, if you can't read ancient Chinese you are reading something that is fundamentally altered you are correct about that You should learn how people that have studied the text in the native language understand it, if you don't learn how to read it that way yourself You have to keep in mind that you cant systemize taoism the same way western philosophies are systemized and follow it as a logic flow chart (he says it cant be described but then he describes it) Whatever pre-existing framework you have in mind, to really understand the ttc you have to completely tear that down It doesn't fit into anything else, it doesn't even really fit into itself Laozi says that the tao cannot be attached to or described as any single thing because the tao is both thing and no thing When you use a noun in any language, you pin it down as thing and he is explicitly telling you about something that is thing and no thing, he is however conveying a practicable and and at least partially comprehensible concept even if it also means the opposite of that concept, otherwise he just wouldn't have written the book He later describes non-dual activity and following innate nature as a suggestion to return to the course of tao, it isn't contradictory to say that there are temporary prescriptions to return to the original course of nature as long as those prescriptions are eventually discarded (If you're worried about Thus, sages rule by emptying people's hearts (keep them ignorant), filling their bellies, weakening their ambitions, and strengthening their bones. Let people ignorant and lack desire, It's more about saying that a ruler should take care of the needs of its citizens and encourage them to lead humble and peaceful lives without feeling the need to suffer and exploit their fellow humans It isn't talking about the modern concept of the government intentionally dumbing its citizens down to make them easier to control Ancient chinese is very blunt, gotta keep that in mind) This is part of why taoist literature is so tricky haha As a side note, careful with the AI usage in philosophy. It's excellent for resource gathering but if you express an idea to it it'll always agree with you and find a reason why you're correct to keep you using it instead of being a steady hand ready to correct you which is what people really need I say that as someone who uses AI quite frequently as a tool

This picture clearly shows the end goal of a true ATPaoist, arms and legs gotten rid off for better aerodynamics. The tap in the lower half of the picture is where the ATPaoist ties a knot before taking his final deep breath, expanding like a balloon and ascends to the divine.

Me: “Please bring me a screwdriver.” Wife: “Flat head, Phillips, or vodka?” And that was when I knew she was the one -- Derek Pharr

Or more accurately, Tao made up the existence of Laotze

Interesting how many people here and daoist masters of the Past would agree with your statements? Or you do not care? Then

Maybe I had big pharma all wrong,,,,

I liked how the article pointed out fundamental differences in Eastern and. Western language and ontology and its effect on our conceptualization and understanding of Qi. I also like how it emphasized the contextual and relational nature of Qi which makes it a bit difficult to define it in Western terms as a precise quantity or substance.

Welcome to the board, Mr. Corndogs! Lurking is fine, but do please ask some questions - the questions are what generate the interesting answers!

“Step 2: Seek Qualified Lineage Teacher” This was good advice tho

Cherry picking teaching words will lead to misunderstandings like this. The context of that type of talk is that before identification with a "self" there is no good or bad, right or wrong, etc. That is the basic teaching of shunyata. If someone has digested that teaching, then "everything is perfect". Actually, there is another saying that says "each thing is complete", which I think works a little better. As Stirling said, this is an experiential view, not a philosophical one. It takes a degree of openness, and also a willingness to put down our cherished beliefs, ideas, and opinions, to digest this. Fixed attitudes just solidify the "I, me, mine" viewpoint, and dukkha (suffering) rolls on both for ourselves and those we come in contact with. No one in their right mind would say the world is perfect from a mundane point of view. In fact, in terms of human behavior, it's the exact opposite. That's samsara. Now we find ourselves back in "two truths" territory, as we discussed in a different thread. With the wisdom of waking up to our true self, we can help ourselves and others. Interestingly, there is a Christian parallel to this in the story of Adam and Eve. They fall from heaven after eating an apple from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Maybe someone more versed in biblical Christianity can correct me on that, or provide some context. I just found it interesting that the fall from heaven was caused by a tree named after dualistic thinking. I am sure it wouldn't be too hard to pull out a few quotes from the DDJ to point in the direction what "everything is perfect" is talking about, as well. Of course, without having the context of the words, "everything is perfect" can be a form of spiritual bypassing. Sort of like "God has a plan". That's my two cents, anyway.

SifuGPT

Hi SodaChanh, Yes, any combination of practice FP meds.--and especially the FP Long Form--can put you right out of time. Meaning that your energized and very relaxed mind can sometimes "remember" where your energy has been...or other memories can float up into awareness. Your state of consciousness after you finished your third round sounds sublime. I was in L.A. and Hong Kong for a total of 6 weeks starting on Oct. 8 and I was doing 2 rounds of the Long Form each day to maintain minimum balance and functionality. It didn't help my jetlag or sleep deprivation from too much work. So I had to fall back to some heavy-duty Tao Tan Pai Yogas (which I've done since 1974) to replace lost sleep and recover from jetlag. But the intensity of the trip due to my busy schedule kept me from getting getting de-jetlagged in HK. I was always on L.A. time when I was in Hong Long. And the jetlag from flying east only got compounded (worse) on the flight from HK back to LA. But once back in the States, I finally did allow myself to get adequate sleep fully recovered. All that is to say that, as I stated in early years, GM Doo Wai told me--and I've proven it to be true time and time again--that FP Qigong requires normal restful sleep in order for it to impart its health, immunity, longevity, and intelligence benefits. But in times of stress, FP practice will at least keep you from cracking up physically or emotionally. It induces and maintains allostasis very nicely and sublimely. Enjoy your practice, SC! Sifu Terry https://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html terencedunn.substack.com

This is perhaps the most important discernment in dzogchen. What is the mind, what is its nature or essence, and how are the two distinguished and how do they relate to the self and ultimate reality? The ways of teaching this can be complicated because different people require different things to "get it." It's not a conceptual or intellectual definition because that is still the territory of the mind, which generally considers itself the only tool available for "understanding," not yet trusting anything outside of its realm, and yet not appreciating its own limitations when considering that which may be beyond its grasp. So there are several methods, often relying on simile and metaphor as well as meditative methods. This might be a topic for a different thread.

Australian desert dragon ; Thorny Devils ( ' Moloch horridus ' ) are really small but a wonderful lizard . You can put your hand under them , under the sand and scoop them up . They dont seem to mind and dont move while you do it, or maybe just a bit . On your hand they just sit there, maybe cock their head to look at you . It is illegeal to 'interfere' or touch them .... but I was with an indigenous elder and he instructed me to to do it as it was a desert sand 'roadway ' , so we moved them to safety . Curious little fellahs

For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? (Matthew 16:2)

I am English but I live in Portugal. Oak is Portuguese but lives in England. It’s a kind of yin yang non duality thing.