Bindi

Given nearly infinite paths of connection from the heart (to the spiritual heart?) why would so few actually arrive? “You cannot know it (Heart) with your mind… You cannot realize it by imagination when I tell you here is the centre. The only direct way to realize it is to cease to fantasize, and try to be yourself. When you realize it, you automatically feel that the centre is there. This is the centre, the Heart, spoken of in the scriptures as hrit-guha-aral [Grace in the cave of the heart] ullam [‘that which is’, the heart].” ~ Ramana Maharshi I’d be curious to hear how the intellect might traverse the heart which sits above the spiritual heart.

According to Yogapedia and reading between the lines, adding Ananda is quite unlikely to just “follow naturally” - “Some say that the experience of sat-chit-ananda is only accessible to a few advanced spiritual masters. Potentially, only 20 or 30 masters have ever been able to reach and remain in this state. It is easier for people to achieve an illuminated mind, but sat-chit-ananda is a higher state even than that.” https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5838/sat-chit-ananda The problem is Ananda cannot be achieved by mental gymnastics, Ananda can only be achieved by entering into the ‘spiritual heart’ where logic doesn’t reign supreme.

What happened to Ananda?

My take: Feelings and thoughts are required for survival and don’t need to be thrown away or cease, only the things that destroy clear thinking and feeling need to be removed, and a new perspective based on reality implanted. This then clears the way for the “Central” work, the more spiritual stuff, Shiva, Shakti, the child etc.

How does “the point of Buddhism is to enjoy life and be happy” square with the stated point of Buddhism being to stop the cycle of rebirth, rebirth being synonymous with suffering?

In my experience certain actions of the body performed at exactly the right time directly affect the subtle energy body. To me this body - subtle body link is indispensable as part of the journey.

I tend to agree, to me the coal face is in the heart, but then I did read recently that Buddhists treat the heart/mind as one, so as Maddie suggests maybe this isn’t actually the true core of Buddhism but a shallow Western interpretation. I do have that impression of Western Buddhists myself though. The one thing I’ve really been able to use from Buddhism is “This too will pass”, not so much lately but for a while it was a powerful mantra when I needed it. As Stirling says, one goes to Buddhism when one feels they are suffering, and it’s true, life can be sucky, but there can be other ways to resolve this. Life being sucky can be a call to arms but Buddhism is far from the only answer. Different antidotes can offer different benefits, life can be seen as a most wonderful opportunity instead of a thing that needs to ultimately be escaped from, I’d prefer to find the value of life rather than the ultimate escape from life which Buddhism ultimately is, and I don’t believe that’s just for Western Buddhists. I would say accepting all feelings… “ is actually much better for you since you no longer block life energy and you become happier as a result.”

Double post

Karmic seeds I agree, where they’re stored can be an interesting question, I currently would say they are stored in kundalini consciousness. For me how to work on them is a continuation of feeling the feeling, which I think is different to seeing them for what they are. I fundamentally see both karma and emotional damage as entirely valid emotional responses to external conditions, which cease when they have delivered their message, and their message has been heard. Ah, the meaning of life 😀 To me, if I get the entire factory of myself working, only then can I see what the factory is for and what it produces. I see all religions and philosophies as others opinions, some of which I agree with and some of which I don’t agree with. It seems to me that buying into any one system does require one to buy into that system’s b/s, and has a high chance of blocking out a competing system’s truths. I remain remarkably happy following my own path 😊 It’s interesting that it’s available if you go looking for it, possibly in many religions and philosophies, so we’re never fully stuck perhaps. I’m glad to hear about the Svabhavikakaya, I dislike the current trend to refer to the body as a meat suit, to see it as an integrated part of the whole seems so much healthier.

I think my difference is that I seek the underlying causes for my negative emotions, and as they become resolved so the negative emotion lessens in both the short and long term. I have the idea that healing needs to happen, but perhaps this is the same as “seeing through the 'display' to what is actually going on”? Same with my interest in subtle energy systems, they are the underlying reality I am interested in, but maybe the Buddhists would say the subtle energy system is also just a display, or maybe that’s the non-dualists, who knows anymore ☺️

Do you know what Buddhists mean when they call emotions illusory?

As Maddie said earlier it is the monologue attached to the feeling that creates the suffering, I might say it is the monologue that extends the suffering, the feeling in the moment might make me miserable but when it ends I am not miserable anymore - some feelings are decidedly unpleasant. But… at this point in time I do take the feeling as ‘me’, just as I take thoughts to be me and my body to be me. I am also Shakti and shiva, and at some point I may identify as their child, I am multifaceted and can see the world through all of these perspectives, why would I need to disidentify with any perspective? I am a multicelled organism with multiple perspectives as opposed to Buddha’s no-self.

In what sense are feelings illusory?

I agree the narrative can be misleading, I do try to just feel the pure feeling divorced of narrative.

@Mark Foote, I’ve made a new thread to not disrupt daniels very good efforts to get to the bottom of the meaning of nonduality. My conclusions are fundamentally different to Gautama’s I believe, in that to me the root of suffering is our endless tendency to stifle feeling bad. Locating feelings in the Ida Nadi means that our subtle energy body is disrupted through stifling as subtle energy is stopped from flowing through, and even in the central channel I am inclined to believe that the root problem is emotional damage that is carried over. To me kundalini is a valid part of the path and central channel work, and from what I can understand kundalini herself is also wounded, it’s like all the yin layers are suppressed and consequently damaged, and the work that I do is to allow feelings as the fundamental cure. As far as I know Buddhism refers to feelings as illusory, I see them as subtle energy and entirely real and valid.