Bindi

I’m just now reading pages 54-55 of A Chinese model of cognition : the Neiye, fourth century B.C.E. by Fabien Simonis here which I feel speaks directly to your post.

To me there does seem to be an aversion to 'you wei' from many posters here, Daoist and non-Daoist alike, and a premature fascination with wu wei. Would you refer to 'cultivation' and 'cleaning' as you wei or wu wei?

I haven't been able to compare many translations, but the Roth translation has: Diligently clean out its lodging place [敬除其舍]And its vital essence will naturally arrive [精將自來]. To me making everything calm only on the surface level leaves the deep mess undisturbed but still running the show subconsciously.

The problem might be that the Neiye is antithetical to the wu-wei position so stressed in the DDJ. From this article by Russel Kirkland VARIETIES OF TAOISM IN ANCIENT CHINA: A PRELIMINARY COMPARISON OF THEMES IN THE NEI YEH AND OTHER TAOIST CLASSICS, which is well worth reading in full:

I was quoting from the translation I found here: Do you have links to other translations apart from Eno's, I'd be interested in comparing them.

Ok, I read it as do the necessary work and the heart will then return to its natural state eg. 7 If you are able to cast off sorrow, happiness, 8 joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking, 9 Your Heart will return to its natural flow 11 The Way's sensation: 12 How can you be in tune with its sound? 13 Cultivate your Heart and you will resonate in tune. 14 The Way thereby can be attained 1 The Way has no fixed position; 2 In the cultivated Heart, it gracefully abides. 3 When the heart is calm and Energy aligned 4 The Way can thereby repose. I take "cultivate" as casting off "sorrow, happiness, joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking." When the heart returns to its natural flow, it should then effortlessly resonate with the Way/Dao.

A possible understanding of this one-two-three from an alchemical perspective might be that as soon as the LDT starts to be cultivated, the One that was resting there as potential (in the LDT which until then also only existed as potential) gives birth to the initial two, yin/yang first referred to as a girl and a boy. When cultivated and brought up to consciousness in the UDT this yin/yang dyad give birth to a new energy pattern that exists between them, something quite 'Daoish' and generative.

You said "... The central role of the heart (Xin) is interesting too as that is not the emphasis in most alchemy works..." So I posted an alchemical illustration where cleansing the heart was relevant in neidan. As for the Neiye, it is primarily concerned with cleansing and cultivating the heart, as you seemed to say yourself in your previous post?

A much more understandable translation, the other one made no sense Interesting, thanks, I'll have to think about this one.

I do like this sense where consciousness as shen and energy as qi are united, I have read that oneness refers to different things in different contexts, maybe this is one context? And other times it refers to Dao. edit: Unless of course uniting shen and qi (and jing) = realising Dao. Uniting yin and yang being a different issue.

Thanks TT. But how does "Dao" as a translation of "one" work in this line of the Neiye 1 Those able to transform One thing are called 'Spiritual'; or in the first line of the DDJ ch42 The Dao gives birth to the One.

Regarding the heart in alchemy there is this Chinese woodblock illustration of neidan "Cleansing the heart-mind and retiring into concealment", 1615 Xingming guizhi 性命圭旨 (Pointers on Spiritual Nature and Bodily Life). I don't know what 'One' refers to in the Neiye, is it relevant in relation to DDJ42? zhang 9 "One" 1 Those able to transform One thing are called 'Spiritual'; 2 Those able to change One affair are called 'wise'. 3 To transform without expending Energy; 4 To change without expending wisdom: 5 By grasping the One only the Master is able to do this! 6 Grasp the One; do not loose it, 7 And you will be able to master the myriad things. 8 The Master acts upon things, 9 And is not acted upon by things 10 Attain to the guiding principle of the One.

It's easy enough to examine the Neiye, the "proto-Daoist text that clearly influenced the Daode jing, Zhuangzi, and other classics." There is clear reference to neidan-like cultivation in the Neiye imo, which could have easily developed over time into more modern daoist alchemy as we know it if the Neiye instructions were followed, with reference to jing, qi, shen, water flowing upwards, inner cultivation to directly apprehend the "all-pervading cosmic force."

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What if it backfired and they convinced you that they had the truth, and you ended up joining the cult for real??? If they were any good at what they do and you weren't very sure of yourself they might manage to indoctrinate you. I'm watching an interesting series at the moment Scientology And The Aftermath. I walked into one of their centres when I was 18 or so, and they had me and my friend sit down and fill in a long questionnaire. Luckily we got bored and left it unfinished, and no one was in the room so we just walked out. If they had been doing their job properly they wouldn't have left us alone...