Bindi

A spirit, or a spirit - like understanding, it seems it's up to the translator. To incorporate the concept of something 'alighting' into the body, I wonder if this 'spirit' might be the equivalent of True Yin, very much a part of our personal make up but not embodied, not 'consolidated', having to be drawn down.

I wonder why Roth uses mind in section seven and eight for xin, he must have some reason. Later in the text it specifies 非 鬼 神 之 力 也 However, it is not comprehended by the power of ghosts and spirits –精 氣 之 極 也 But by the utmost of essence‟s Qi! I don't get the idea that spirits within or without are seen as relevant in the Neiye. The highest in my reading of it is the numinous mind.

"i govern my heart by governing my senses." I govern my senses by...? Yes very much implied, and specified in numerous places later in the text.

To me the 'numinous mind' is the prime driver, the mind capable of seeing the ten thousand things in in their proper perspective, but we don't operate from this numinous mind until we have cleared away the preoccupations of the conditioned heart and mind.

I like how Roth puts it: 15. Within the mind there is yet another mind.16. That mind within the mind: it is an awareness that precedes words.17. Only after there is awareness does it take shape;18. Only after it takes shape it there a word.19. Only after there is a word is it implemented;20. Only after it is implemented is there order.21. Without order, you will always be chaotic.22. If chaotic, you die. Chaos is the default position, it inevitably leads to death, if we can enter the mind within the mind then we can bring order to mental chaos, it requires the mind within the mind to direct the chaotic mind with a directive word. When the chaotic mind is ordered, there is life (though this is not specified here).

What does 'Oneness' refer to?

I hope you add a bit more to your response

The term cheng-hsing 正 形, which could be translated as "correcting the body," has a specific meaning in the texts concerned with inner cultivation. Since the human organism is imbued with vital energy, I take cheng-hsing to refer to aligning or harmonizing the flow of vital energy within the physical form, (a more literal rendering of hsing). Likewise, the term cheng-hsin 正 心, translated below in a passage found at 16.2b9, means to align the flow of vital energy within the mind [Xin-added]. I like 'correcting' the vital (though subtle) energy flow within the body, and if referring to jing, qi and shen, then synchronising them as they increase and their flow becomes unimpeded. Later in the text 內 藏 以 為 泉 原 It collects inside you, thus acting as a primal spring. 浩 然 和 平 Like a vast lake, it is harmonious and equable seems to denote the unimpeded quality of jing and qi, while 是 謂 雲 氣 This is called cloud-like Qi – 意 行 似 天 Your intent and behavior resemble that of heaven is more likely to refer to shen. Later on there seem to be instructions to contemplate a lot as well. Clear the heart, and contemplate (essence) with a quiet mind perhaps. For example 精 想 思 之 This essence – consider it and contemplate it, 寧 念 治 之 Rather than study ways to regulate it. 思 之 思 之 又 重 思 之 Contemplate it, contemplate it, and again repeatedly contemplate it.

@dawei, you said at some point recently (and seem to have deleted it cos I couldn't find it?) that it seems as if qi precedes jing sometimes in the text. I find this concept is repeated here, "Qi may be converted into jing" as part of the explanation of the term "Yangshen." Do you think this is the same line of thinking as found in the Neiye?

There were multiple references to 'qi ducts' in the post linked below, I chose to take the reference to yin and yang qi ducts as relevant in general to qi ducts.

I don't know where Roth got 'guided' from, I can understand why Linnell translated the line as he did 氣 道 乃 生 With Qi and Dao, then there is life; and I can understand how TT has come up with 'qi ducts,' and right now I tend to think he might be correct. This leaves us with the problem of qi ducts or qi channels that were defined previously in this thread as yin and yang qi ducts, I don't personally have a problem with them as a concept, but I think we'd have to go outside of Daoism to find a reference to them, I propose something along the lines of the female/male Ida and Pingala of Yoga.

Re-reading the whole section, it seems to me that the requirement for jing to dwell in oneself is being aligned and still. Jing coming to stay still seems to me to be the requirement which allows further development. 能 正 能 靜 When you can be properly aligned and can be still– 然 後 能 定 Then, you can be settled. 定 心 在 中 With a settled heart/mind [xin] in your center, ... 可 以 為 精 舍 You are able to become a dwelling for essence [Jing]. 精 也 者 This essence [Jing] – 氣 之 精 者 也 Is essence [Jing] of Qi! 氣 道 乃 生 With Qi and Dao, then there is life; 生 乃 思 With life, then there is contemplation; 思 乃 知 With contemplation, then there is understanding; 知 乃 止 矣 When you reach understanding, then stop! Agreed, and other translations don't have guiding either.

Using the concepts in this thread regarding the Numen, Knowledge reaches its end when the Numen, the Primordial Spirit, the Original Spirit, (I would like to suggest True Yin is also a synonym) re-enters into awareness permanently. I associate this moment with the dawning of true wisdom and "spirit-like understanding" leading to an unbounded understanding of the nature of life, more than 'spiritual awareness,' but maybe the two terms are synonymous? 神 明 之 極 This highest of spirit-like understanding – 照 乎 Is it illuminating? 知 萬 物 You will understand the ten thousand creatures. 遍 知 天 下 They understand the whole world

When qi is guided, vital essence [Jing] is generated.When it is generated, then there is thinking.When there is thinking, then there is knowing.When there is knowing, then you should cease. With this verse I'm going with the idea that jing is naturally depleted throughout a lifetime, ie. pre-cultivation, but things like guiding qi and generating jing are deliberate cultivation. This is why I'm then thinking that the thinking that is generated from jing cultivation is also positive, though there is a definite limit to how far this method can take you. A certain level of knowing and thinking should cease, but also I suspect actively guiding qi and generating jing should cease. Everything that can be done is done, and further progress just unfolds naturally, interference at this point would destroy the natural process which began with deliberate cultivation perhaps. Considering the forms of the heart-mind, Excessive knowing dissipates vitality. I wonder if this could be related to excessive thinking. Knowing and understanding are one thing, perhaps even vital, but even so excessive thinking just depletes yuan shen. I was going with understanding/knowing as the consequence of contemplation, which is a deep/profound type of thinking. 思 乃 知 With contemplation, then there is understanding 思 索 生 知 Deep contemplation creates understanding

To me, it means when the Numen (what I would have referred to as Original Spirit previously) arrives to stay, knowledge and intent is no longer needed to guide jing. I associate the Numen with a Higher order mind, it takes over, and any previous mentation defers to the Numen which has access to metaphysical knowledge.