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Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit passed away on March 1, 2026 in Malaysia. I had the opportunity to study with him in Miami (2005) and Orlando (2008) when he visited the U.S. These were good experiences for me, and I continue to study his methods to this day with one of his former students. I'm also grateful to him for his books. One of them mentioned and showed an illustration of Shibashi (not one of the forms he taught), which I became interested in and subsequently became a big part of my practice.

Back in the beginnings of TDBs, @Stigweard did a tremendous amount of work with foundational organization. He has recently been producing some insightful, wise, hilariously dark art, "Stuart Shaw Creations". on facebook https://www.facebook.com/stuartshawcreations and his own website https://stuartshawcreations.com/

I have had what I call luminous dreams (which is just a name I give them not a significant claim) where the dreams are especially bright and also stay with you - you don't forget them like ordinary dreams. They are always very significant and meaningful. But most of my dreams are just rather confused and full of my own metal stresses and concerns. The luminous dreams seem to contain messages which last and are guidance for long periods of time. I've had quite a few pre-cognition dreams where I dream about things which later come true (sometimes many years later). This proves to me that time is not linear and that all that happens to us is interconnected. I think that to rest one's consciousness in the pristine consciousness itself is quite an achievement in itself. But as a goal it is limited as it presents as a separate state - so it is prone to abstraction and negation of life and the world. But it is part of something more complete. That more complete thing engages both the subtle and physical body - and this is where the 'work' is. Whether you work through dreams or not, or through meditation and other processes, there is a task to be undertaken. I think mahamudra and dzogchen do have a fault in that this task is disguised in a lot of talk of resting in the natural state etc. which is very misleading if not fully understood. I am big fan of Karma Pakshi's three kaya model where you engage with consciousness itself, the subtle body and the physical body to form the svabhaivika kaya - but that's a whole other story.

Welcome to the Indigenous Traditions sub forum. This is a space for discussing traditional beliefs and practices from old cultures around the world, so we can share and learn from ancient wisdom, myth and method. As ever on this forum please commit to remaining respectful to those cultures and each other - and enjoy the conversation.

I've practiced qigong for about 20 years. One thing I've learned is that my expectations need to be realistic. Certainly there are benefits from the forms I practice but qigong has not proven to be a comprehensive and complete system for me. I practice both Shiba Luohangong and Ba Duan Jin and derive valuable and different benefits from each. I have also continued to practice internal Chinese martial arts over that period of time - taijiquan, xingyiquan, and baguazhang. While I no longer compete or train martially with others, these have found a valuable role in my physical, energetic, and mental health. Finally, perhaps most important to me is my meditation practice from a Tibetan tradition. While I do think it's important to stick with a practice for a long time to really probe its depth and potential, I don't know that each one of us can expect to find a single practice or system that does everything we are looking for. Some do and that is wonderful but it hasn't been that way for me. I also think that we need to listen to our body and mind and maintain some openness and flexibility as our needs can change over time.

I dreamed you were going to delete that.

Whatdaya think?

I know very little about your Grandmaster and his teachings but I know you are a very dedicated practitioner Dainin. I am confident that you will be a vehicle through which his legacy will live on and benefit others. My condolences on your loss _/\_

Don't allow the energy flow to your head - brain, as that has severe risks of making one smarter, making one realize their destiny and spiritual path, leading them away from scamgong teachings and worthless practices. You don't want that. Stay grounded.

worse still is when some individual sets themselves up as such an adviser ... a sort of 'judgmental guru ' and also individuals adopting it to project out onto others ; 'would be Louise Hay's' ; to some unfortunate ; ''Oh, you stubbed your toe ? Why are you afraid of moving forward ? '' I want to shove their judgmental little faces in it ! I remember once , being in our amenities block , we were flooded in , I had a double middle ear infection - terrible and no medication . This New Age bitch walks in and asks what is wrong with me ( as I am obviously in a great deal of pain and hanging on to a sink to even be able to stand up ) I tell her , does she offer assistance , pain relief she might have at home ... any thing even remotely kind ? NO ; '' OH really ( and even in a smarmy , I am smart , look what I know about , voice ) ... what is it you dont want to hear then ?'' Me '' I will tell you what I dont want to hear , some inconsiderate new age, self appointed 'guru' scoring points on my pain and suffering so they can appear clever .' I read once where someone asked their Rabbi about this ; if an accident or sickness might carry a special message for you . The Rabbi said , of course it can , God works in all sorts of ways . The person protested a bit and explained some things , like I mentioned above . The Rabbi was ; '' Wait a minute , I didnt understand you , what I said was true but are you saying some people are interpreting the meaning and significance of these for others ? What ! That's outrageous ! How dare anyone try to interpret or give the meaning to someone else about God's particular and private dealings with them ! ' That is between you and God ! That isnt even the job of a Rabbi ! ''

Happy New Year Sifu Terry and all the Flying Phoenix Practitioners! Or as we say in Singapore, gong xi fa cai!! Huat ah!!! Looking forward to reading both the FP book and the TTP book!

• HAPPY NEW YEAR OF THE FIRE HORSE !!! • May New Year's blessings and good karma come to you with freedom, speed, high intensity, and great and blissful duration!

Agreed. Especially since we had a gallop poll and everything!

Are you saying you wish people would stop horsing around?

I practice because I can, and it helps keep the mirror of my mind clean from the proverbial red dust of this world.

Someone asked me this question about a year ago and, without thinking much about it, what came out was... I am practicing for my death. It sort of surprised me, and them as well. My practice has become mostly informal, meaning not just on the cushion but in my day to day life, as often and consistently as possible. It's wonderful to sit in a quite, comfortable room and practice but if my practice is not there for me when I am challenged and stressed, when I am suffering; if it is not enriching my life, and the lives of those around me in the moment, making me more kind, flexible, resilient, resourceful, creative... what is the point? (that is a rhetorical question, I am only speaking for myself - everyone has their own path and objectives). So my point is that I continue to practice so that I can be supported to show up fully in my life and to be able to access and bring all available resources to any and every given situation to the best of my ability. Death is likely to present the biggest challenge in my life. How to let go of everything I have, everything and everyone I've known, and everything that I am? And how to do it without too much suffering for myself and for those around me? Of course, it's nice to say things like - I am God, I am the universe, I am the non-local awareness, Buddha, the Nature of Mind. I am birthless, deathless... I have no fear of death. But they are all words... the test comes when there is extreme pain, illness, when the body and mind are close to the end and loved ones are waiting and suffering. What will it be like then? I watched my father die not too long ago and there was so much pain, so much fear. It was excruciating for him and those around him in the last few days. Wouldn't it be interesting to navigate that with some peace, some confidence, some equanimity and directly experience that transition and what lies beyond with as much clarity as possible? Rather than be heavily drugged and hooked up to all sorts of high tech garbage? I think so... at the moment. And of course, circumstances may change my mind when it's my turn. Time will tell! In the tradition I follow, it's said that we should be able to bring all life's experiences onto the path. Life itself becomes the practice. So for me, at this moment, practice really has no endpoint, I guess I can say I am practicing to live and to die.

To find some balance and sanity in this crazy world we live in.

Your method for dream work is very similar to the method in my tradition for working with any experience, including dreams. Just as you recreate and embody the dream in your mind and feelings, we do the same with any experience or person that generates reactivity. These can be very recent experiences, alive in us at this very moment. They can be remote memories, dreams, people who generate reactivity, future worries, any life experience. We turn to the experience if it is active in the moment, or recreate whatever it is we want to work with as vividly as possible in body, speech, and mind. We sit with that for as long as it is fresh and alive. While we don't engage with it intellectually, we are often taken to earlier times and other experiences that may have some connection, often a connection we were not aware of. The one thing that may be a bit different is that we are working with the sense of a "me" who is being affected by the experience rather than hosting the experience itself. It's a very subtle but important difference in our paradigm. And we rest in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness. This is referred to as hosting pain identities. . It's a wonderful and powerful practice and one way we avoid the bypassing that can so easily happen to practitioners.

Part of my method for dream work is to “feel the feeling” after the dream has been interpreted to the best of one’s ability, which I did by recreating the dream in my mind and allowing myself as much as possible to re-enter the feeling created by the dream image. Doing this for decades, slowly getting better at it, allows the full force of a feeling to be experienced over time, and really this is what a fully open emotional channel is. Rumi’s poem captures the work perfectly - The Guest House Rumi Translated by Coleman Barks This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival. A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all! Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still, treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice, meet them at the door laughing, and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond.

This probably belongs here for reference ; https://www.boandbon.com/

Come to think of it, most words that refer to ideas, concepts, mental constructs, interpretations, all that "vaporware" of human cognition, are similarly problematic. We use them as though they are qualitative and quantitative, whereas they are semantic conventions born of contentions. Often they define what is really indefinite, what barely exist, or does't exist at all. With tangible material things the grey zone is a lot smaller, but still... I sit in an office chair. I bought it as an "office chair," but if I put a dining-room chair in my office instead, in that same spot in front of the computer, will it become an office chair? Will it lose its dining-room chair citizenship? Will it become a naturalized citizen of the office? Will it surrender its dining-room allegiances and swear to fight all enemies of the office, foreign and domestic? And will the indigenous residents of the office -- computer, printer, filing cabinet -- see it as an office chair, as "one of us?" And will it forget all those family dinners it was part of in its native dining-room, all its dining-room mates from the same set still gathered around the dining-room table, still indigenous?..

Thought I’d share this on the Babaylan indigenous culture of the Philippines. I have participated in some of these rituals and found them both powerful and fascinating particularly seeing the connections to Indian and Chinese language, physical and spiritual cultivation and healing cultures that are part of it. My wife’s grandmother was a traditional practitioner of this and the capabilities of her lineage appear to have been passed on to the women in my immediate family. The video talks about the indigenous experience in confronting Christianity and Islam as well as the role of gender including transgender there. My guess is that many indigenous practices in other parts of the world went through similar processes where they interacted with/were changed by outside cultures trying to control them. In the modern era the Babaylan culture mostly manifests as indigenous healing practices like manghihilot which are still widespread in the Philippines but there also still exists behind this those currently following the culture and practices of the Babaylan. My understanding this tradition was not only affected by Catholicism and Islam but also more recently by American Protestant missionaries who carved up the Philippines in the 20th century into areas of authority to proselytize and before Catholicism and Islam by Buddhist and Hindu influences. These earlier Indian influences can be seen in the language, traditional scripts, as well as in the healing practices. https:// 1 justjoseph responded to this Quote Edit

This is typical Chūnibyō syndrome stuff. Many of the threads where this is mentioned were moved to the staff eyes only section, and can no longer be found via google. Here are a few examples, but these are pretty tame comparatively. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50649-brain-cleansing-in-the-internal-arts/?do=findComment&comment=922530 "Thats why for example, I could watch 20k+ 1000hz high quality movies, or remember past lives, or visualize a whole city projection." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50381-levitation-and-possibly-flight/?do=findComment&comment=922713 Question: As far as delusions go, you claim to have a harem of goddesses, shoot eye lasers, travel faster than the speed of light, open portals to other worlds to fight ancient 100,000 Naga demons, etc. Answer: "Those aint delusions, these are tiny percentage of extracts from things I have personally encountered on other planes. I have met and seen things you cannot even phantom." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50710-questions-to-master/?do=findComment&comment=924660 "I had brain implants and other stuff." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50755-divine-truths-from-master/?do=findComment&comment=926199 "I can easily capture your soul after it leaves the body, and put it inside the stone in my magic underground basement lab. You will be my guest for next 1000 years, and mb you will also learn something, but I will never let you back into "free" life. I might allow you to reincarnate in some of my lab rats." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50720-what-is-taoism/?do=findComment&comment=926138 "Having third Eye open I can see things that normal humans never can imagine, like a tentacle larvae crawling over an energy egg shaped field which is human. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/49762-request-access-to-private-gender-subforums/?tab=comments#comment-926426 I am sitting in mountains and meditating while having multiple clones, and one of the clones is dreaming, and he goes internet from dreamworld without any "new age" devices like computer or phone. Old school is best school. " https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50781-western-mopai-censorship-for-sean/?do=findComment&comment=926903 "I have passed through several galaxies in the matter of seconds, so yeah, I was travelling at a much higher speed than Light." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50720-what-is-taoism/?do=findComment&comment=926577 "Because to go through 1 million years of my own memories of past lives it is quite a work to do unlike googling baidu to find divine truths. When I will be 2000 times stronger than I am now, I may commit myself to this research." https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50781-western-mopai-censorship-for-sean/?do=findComment&comment=926930 "I was never hurt by people making fun of my levitation ... or portal opening ability. I have had too much of these experiences to be able to doubt it or care about someone else opinion on the topic."

Do not bring external feuds into this website or you may be banned. I’m locking this thread - no more discussion on this please.

Ok Just expressing how I feel about it. No worries (as I said before) I will be fine with whatever the admods decide.

Silence can certainly contribute to violence. Silence can also contribute to solutions to violence. The inner and outer voices that are rooted in emotional reactivity and intellectual over-activity can be a formidable obstacle to discovering something new and unprecedented; and the old answers clearly aren’t working. Creativity comes more often from inner quiet than from strenuous effort.

Sorry to hear about his passing. It so happened that one of his books was among the first things that got me interested in taiji and qigong. I credit it with drilling in my mind, in advance of actual practice, the idea that the holy grail of gaining benefits from it all safely is the knees. I never forgot that part and the overall impression of clear to-the-point explanations, which were very valuable for a not-even-beginner-yet getting ready to embark on that journey. RIP, master Wong.

https://www.sofiatopia.org/maat/heavenly_cow.htm https://henadology.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/celestial-cow.pdf

There is that saying that if there is something you don't like then its a reflection of what's in you, or a problem of yours. Well I don't quite buy that huge generalization, granted it may be true in some cases but not in others... hells bells does your introspective head hurt ?

woah! what? Most of these things are probably helpful but the true answer is to 'sung' the body.

Expect another 12 months of that !

Take it from a drifter, if you´ve been practicing the same system for two years and feel the benefits, you´re doing pretty darn great!

I am no longer practicing, but actualizing enlightenment. One can actualize enlightenment by dropping all contrived thoughts, ideas, and practices. From the viewpoint of awareness it can be seen that all appearances in consciousness, including the "self", thoughts, and other worldly phenomena arise and When you practice in this way even the walled-in concept of enlightenment drops away.

I practice to become one with God.

If you read the Heart Sutra from the perspective of realization it is as clean and clear as a mountain stream. I don't know of any non-dual expression that is more concise and to the point. Another in the same league (IMO) is the Tsin Tsin Ming by Tseng T'san, not written by the Buddha but rather a Ch'an patriarch much much later. Dharma is being penned by living beings every day, all over the world. It isn't important if the Buddha said it, or if the guy that runs the hardware store down the street said it. There have been countless enlightened beings since the Buddha, all Buddhas themselves. They walk the streets of your town, tip their hats, and frequent the aformentioned hardware store to see their dharma brother. Even their simple kindness and patience is dharma.

Meh...that's like the endless DDJ translation debates. It doesn't change anything. I am a practitioner, not a scholar. But, thanks for the side-note.

The practice I do did it to me and my two teachers can verify that because they experienced the same. Some methods are a lot better than others. I hope you are aware of this principle. You need to find the ONE that works for YOU the BEST.

As an ordained teacher of Zen I can tell you: Zen is big on the "sudden enlightenment" idea. This refers to the idea that, while there may be many years of learning and practice, it is not the practice that actually enlightens. It is commonly said that the sound of a kicked pebble hitting a pot could awaken you. You could be driving to the tire store, making a sandwich, or... anything. There are also those (in Buddhism) called Pratyeka buddhas - they awaken with no method or exposure to the teachings. They are real - I have met a couple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddhayāna I am satisfied that enlightenment doesn't belong to any particular tradition, or philosophy, and isn't caused by any particular practice, what matters is that there is a moment where the reality of the understanding is noticed suddenly, usually when the mind is quiet.

Yes, but one can have one hell of an argument! DaoBums for the win!

Ohhh I do ! Used to do it professionally . I cook various Asian, Middle Eastern, Persian, Mediterranean ... but never African , for some reason . Maybe I assume I cant get the spices* ? I'm not sure why . yeah, I should give it a go . * a lot of the time they need to be fresh ones . I remember years back, I was being treated to some delicious Persian cooking , I was invited to meals by refugees (post Iran Islamic revolution ) I had been working with , and when they got a home they would invite me to dinner . One time I asked for a recipe ; ''Oh no, you would not be able to make it .'' '' I could give it a try ?'' '' No, you would not have the spices and herbs . '' '' Cant I buy them ? '' '' No, special, rare , cant get them here .'' '' I think I can .'' '' No, not the fresh ones, you need fresh ones .'' ''How did you get them?'' ''Friends grow them , here in their garden .'' ''Then I should be able to buy seed and grow them?'' ''No, you cant get the seed here .'' ''Well then, how did you get them .'' ''We bought them with us .'' ..... ? ... '' Are you saying, when you left Iran , as you told me , disguised as herders , going across the desert , hid some things in your robes , including, one person in your group, a baby , and you thought to bring some seeds with you , on the chance that you would make it, go through various countries , and searches and check points , for months, maybe years on end , finally end somewhere and maybe able to plant them ... so you can make your traditional food ?'' ''Yes . '' Now that is dedication to indigenous cuisine !

Lovely post. Thank you for the clarity of it and sharing your experience. You should stop listening to metal if it stresses you.

You take a leap of faith assuming that Laitg himself has the capabilities he claims. Put a claim to the test, the classic is ‘appear in my lounge room’ for people who claim special talents. But other tests might be better. Why would anyone just believe a claim without it being substantiated, unless you’re buying a bridge for sale?

I will try to help here ... he is saying 'truth' ( alone ) is syncategorematic . :)

Down here in Oz we have certain unique dynamics that can assure 'indigenous ' , like, it is pretty certain now and backed up by a lot of research that the indigenous Australian Aboriginal can be certainly termed indigenous as they were the first people here . That's a rare (supported ) claim . The confusion rises with the idea of modern indigenous ; what is accepted as indigenous here : It relies on 3 things ; Proved descent, self identification and community recognition . problematic ; due to lost and stolen generations , some may look obviously Aboriginal but not know ancestry . There is also the issue of % of ancestry ... it doesnt apply ! One ancestor ( going back to whenever ) is sufficient to claim indigeneity. Self identification ... curious , I just need to declare I think I am . It also means no one can say you are , if you dont agree . And community battles or fights or rival claims can make the leaders of a community 'not recognize' (or not issue a certificate of recognition ) to others . So, with myself as an example ; I cant prove descent * , I did not in the past, but am moving towards identifying as indigenous ( due to above * and also the following ) many times Indigenous community have insisted I am Aboriginal , BUT they were not the people that I might have descended from and with the other group, that generation of elders has gone now ( that insisted I was Aboriginal ) and the new people cant seem to recognize it or even are aware of my past work with the old elders . * as far as I can track ; paternal Grandfather came out from England expecting promised land of milk and honey ... not so . Ended up as a cane cutter in Queensland , then went out west to do remote mining . Somehow ended up with some woman and 3 kids ( not sure if they all had the same mother ) . Looking at history .... what were women doing out there ? A great shortage of women for the miners . Chances are she was indigenous . But that was all covered up . Grandfather came to Sydney with three kids and a relative of his had an in law that felt sorry fo them and stepped in to help . This was the woman I thought was my paternal grandmother (until I was in my 30s ! ) It would be funny if it turned out she came from .... https://www.victoriadaly.nt.gov.au/timber-creek/#:~:text=The first inhabitants were the Ngaliwurra and,of whom still live in Timber Creek. [ I did not know of these people when I chose this name ,,,, its a pun in local language about a goanna lizard (gungali ) and the main myth of this valley (Nungli ) ] I still have trouble with it as I still 'visually identify ' people ... nowadays this is a big no-no ; In Australia , there is no "blood quantum" or minimum percentage required to be recognized as Indigenous. The legal and community standard does not measure "how much" descent you have (e.g., 1/4 or 1/16); rather, it focuses on the fact of descent from the inhabitants of Australia prior to European settlement Which means some dude white as snow might be considered , but some guy 'black as' that could not get the records or community acceptance might not be One reason I dont pursue the claim ; all sorts of people are doing it to get special benefits reserved for the indigenous . I have never had to suffer any thing or need that as the system never assumed I was indigenous . The other reason is .... 'special' types of Aboriginals instantly recognize me as 'one' . The ones that do not .... seem to have lost something ( by that I mean they seem more 'westernized' and less 'magical' ) .

Many are, many aren't. If you start a dream journal you will realize that. You can deny your true feelings to yourself and your unconscious will show you otherwise, just like you can deny your attraction or aversion towards someone and your body will show you otherwise.

@Cobie I share your preference for a symbol that feels peaceful rather than fiery in an angry way. To my thinking, balanced fire has many positive qualities and these are the ones our banner should emphasize -- vibrancy, warmth, playfulness, forward motion, willingness to take necessary action. Political conflict and social media squabbles can also be fiery, but most of us will agree we´ve had enough of that. This said, I think the logo really does need to be a horse. The point of changing the banner every year around this time has always been to reflect the energy of the coming year according to Chinese astrology.

I have attempted to set up the sub forum 'Indigenous Traditions' but have hit some technical difficulties (based around I don't know what I'm doing). I have asked for help. Please remain calm during this period of transition, remain in your homes, drink plenty of water and breathe deeply.