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I have had what I call luminous dreams (which is just a name I give them not a significant claim) where the dreams are especially bright and also stay with you - you don't forget them like ordinary dreams. They are always very significant and meaningful. But most of my dreams are just rather confused and full of my own metal stresses and concerns. The luminous dreams seem to contain messages which last and are guidance for long periods of time. I've had quite a few pre-cognition dreams where I dream about things which later come true (sometimes many years later). This proves to me that time is not linear and that all that happens to us is interconnected. I think that to rest one's consciousness in the pristine consciousness itself is quite an achievement in itself. But as a goal it is limited as it presents as a separate state - so it is prone to abstraction and negation of life and the world. But it is part of something more complete. That more complete thing engages both the subtle and physical body - and this is where the 'work' is. Whether you work through dreams or not, or through meditation and other processes, there is a task to be undertaken. I think mahamudra and dzogchen do have a fault in that this task is disguised in a lot of talk of resting in the natural state etc. which is very misleading if not fully understood. I am big fan of Karma Pakshi's three kaya model where you engage with consciousness itself, the subtle body and the physical body to form the svabhaivika kaya - but that's a whole other story.

I dreamed you were going to delete that.

Lovely post. Thank you for the clarity of it and sharing your experience. You should stop listening to metal if it stresses you.

Tell me about that, in the place where I work most of my colleagues are from Kerala and Nigeria. That staffroom at lunchtime... Start cooking, mate. Learn from the best. These days I rarely go to restaurants and pretty much cook 80% of what I eat. Food wise, it's all poison out there.

This probably belongs here for reference ; https://www.boandbon.com/

No need for an apology. I very much appreciate both responses. Good stuff here with which to spend some time. 🙏🏼

My take on this is, first there are different types of dreams ; what you call the luminous dream ( great name ) seems the 'highest' . I have had them and a friend described one well to me ; it had a certain quality of light , she felt transformed afterwards . It was about her going out into the garden and seeing a peacock there , in full display , colors , light, and other qualities .... I put her onto the 'Peacock Angel ' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawûsî_Melek I think they are communications with our 'higher aspects' / tutelary spirits / Guardian Angel / 'Super-consciousness' . Normally when awake, they most often communicate subtly into the unconscious and we get communication to the consciousness via symbolism . When we are asleep and this is happening .. and we are getting a significant 'download' we have a 'luminous dream ' . The opposite 'lower forces ' give us the opposite type of dreams , as you describe ; like lower 'astral' all sorts of gumbo-jumbo mixed up together and flash backs . Then there is another type that you describe , where 'non-local' aspects of consciousness come into play . DR Wilson Van Dusen ( the 'Evidence of spirits in madness ' guy , the one that worked in the psychiatric institution and di clinical trial on this ) when talking about patients 'hallucinations ' / ' possessing spirits ' observed and noted the good qualities of the 'higher hallucinations' (although rarer ) and the same with the 'lower order hallucinations ' and also noted ; '' The higher ones seem more like Jung's 'Archetypes' , while the lower ones seem more like Freud's 'Id ' .

Ohhh I do ! Used to do it professionally . I cook various Asian, Middle Eastern, Persian, Mediterranean ... but never African , for some reason . Maybe I assume I cant get the spices* ? I'm not sure why . yeah, I should give it a go . * a lot of the time they need to be fresh ones . I remember years back, I was being treated to some delicious Persian cooking , I was invited to meals by refugees (post Iran Islamic revolution ) I had been working with , and when they got a home they would invite me to dinner . One time I asked for a recipe ; ''Oh no, you would not be able to make it .'' '' I could give it a try ?'' '' No, you would not have the spices and herbs . '' '' Cant I buy them ? '' '' No, special, rare , cant get them here .'' '' I think I can .'' '' No, not the fresh ones, you need fresh ones .'' ''How did you get them?'' ''Friends grow them , here in their garden .'' ''Then I should be able to buy seed and grow them?'' ''No, you cant get the seed here .'' ''Well then, how did you get them .'' ''We bought them with us .'' ..... ? ... '' Are you saying, when you left Iran , as you told me , disguised as herders , going across the desert , hid some things in your robes , including, one person in your group, a baby , and you thought to bring some seeds with you , on the chance that you would make it, go through various countries , and searches and check points , for months, maybe years on end , finally end somewhere and maybe able to plant them ... so you can make your traditional food ?'' ''Yes . '' Now that is dedication to indigenous cuisine !

I've experimented with making some African staples, notably injera, a kind of gluten-free bread. Need to revisit that, thanks for the reminder. Some authentic recipes use something like 40 various spices (a waitress in an Ethiopian restaurant proudly told me once while serving a fragrant and delicious goat meat stew. That restaurant is long gone of course...)

Agreed, one mistake is to take it as a goal, per se, another to consider it a separate state. While it is a valuable skill to cultivate, once there is some level of success and stability it should no longer be treated as final goal. It is more of a tool. The goal becomes total integration in all states of human experience. For sure the method is prone to abstraction and disconnection. This is why expert guidance and a close relationship with a lineage and teacher are so important. I very much agree. The work must address everything in human experience, from the coarsest to the most subtle. There is work at each level. In the dzogchen tradition I follow, every formal practice session includes elements from sutra, tantra, and dzogchen. At a minimum prayers, energetic cleansing, and guru yoga. In life, one must attend to the physical body, the subtle body, and mind's nature. I think it is a mistake to fault mahamudra or dzogchen, per se. The fault lies with the teacher and/or the practitioner. That is where misleading and misunderstanding occur. In these vehicles, there is a common tendency to conflate the practitioner with the inherent perfection of the primordially pure essence. It is not surprising, given that this is the very essence of the practitioner herself. It is my contention that in the living being, there is never complete and perfect union with / resting in pristine consciousness. Any experience we have of "that" is actually an experience of the release of an obstacle that was previously limiting our openness, our spaciousness, our warmth in some way. This is in part because in life we are always limited by our human form and in part because what we are pointing to in these teachings is not "a state" of any sort in the way we can envision what that means. We remain human and it is the human mind that experiences and recollects the release of limitations as some special state. That in and of itself is a bit of an error. Yes, there can be a lot of talk, particularly by anonymous folks online and in teaching sessions especially when beginner and intermediate practitioners are involved, but the talk and study are released and become less interesting as the path is understood. There was a time when I couldn't get enough of reading and listening to the teachings. I would read before, during, and after work, and on the weekends. I would listen to recordings whenever driving. Now these rarely hold my attention any longer. It is the resting and the integration that are most fascinating and engaging for the most part.

Curiosity is most wonderful and is the motivating factor for both my interest in meditation and my interest in science. Each is a valid and valuable avenue of exploration of the nature of me, which is not separate from the nature of the universe. I would feel incomplete if I didn't give some of my attention to each. For me, both are inextricably connected.

if you’re told that spaciousness and stillness is what we should be looking for, and you find spaciousness and stillness, then you can think you have arrived at what you believe to be the destination. But what if this as a destination is more like a model of consciousness, and as with all models they fray at the edges, and new comprehension of consciousness dawns. You believe your achievement is absolute, but it might be as primitive one day as the belief that rain gods needed to be sacrificed to to cause rain. You are working within the model you believe in, but in the future that model might have advanced significantly. From my perspective your model is incomplete because it doesn’t create flow in the subtle nadi’s, ie. the side channels and the central channel, it doesn’t activate chakras, it doesn’t build dantians, it seems mind based as opposed to subtle body based. My end point is direct seeing, resting upon one’s subtle body reality, of measurable, ascertainable things, within all levels of the body.

I think the images that are used in dreams are very much based on conditioning and experience, but the plot of dreams is the objective part, I have found that dreams mirror the state of our psyche, subtle body and physical body without our subjective sense of our selves interfering. For instance ten people see a movie about a boat, a few of them have a dream of a boat, and all of those write it off as just the movie affecting them. But in each dream the boat does something different, one boat sinks, one loses its steering, one is moved by waves running parallel to the shore, one is speeding along a river. I see dreams as an incredible resource, but they come without an operators manual, at this point I think some of us are trying to write that manual. I’ve been at it for forty years so far, and I’ve found it to be a fascinating journey into all the levels of me. The objective reality I’m referring to is this objective mirror, the dream plot is delivered to my conscious mind without interference from my conscious mind. This is the most objective I can be about the nature of my own reality, which is what I’ve chosen to examine.

After having learned that altough Nigerians are the most genetically propense population to develop Alzheimers disease and however don't get it much due to having a traditional diet very rich in fiber my curiosity increased regarding African diets. Don't watch this if you're fasting...or trying to.

Yes, but one can have one hell of an argument! DaoBums for the win!

Anonymous internet intercourse is always tricky... don't ya think?

I'd love to have that job. Crocolepardoppotomizing them nine to five. There used to be laws of this kind in every culture. Eyeglasses makers guilds in Florence and Venice expelled their members with a lifelong ban on the profession if they were caught making lenses out of glass instead of quartz crystals (which actually helped treat eye disorders instead of merely serving as crutches for the eyes.) Today they're plastic...

Ya know ... in ancient Egypt , after you died , if you could not stand in front of the Gods in the hall of judgement and declare certain things like ... '' I have not adulterated food '' * ....... they rip yer heart out and feed it to a a crocolepardoppotomis . * negative confession number 9 .

Only after a certain level of cultivation has been reached on one’s own Way, it transcends and other Ways become understandable.

One cannot have a sensible discussion with someone from another Way, as long as either is locked up inside their own Way.

There are loads of “models”/traditions/Ways. Imo not useful to judge other models with the ‘tools’ of your own model.

Thanks Cobie! That one is from my partner Jose. The other two are from my mom. Number Two is her attempt to draw a horse using Chinese-style brush strokes, a good idea I think, though it sounds like the first horse is preferred overall so far.

Also big thanks to who drew this one up. It is really endearing but was too bright red for me.

Seriously, a big thanks to Luke’s mom. I like both images, prefer ‘one’.

I like two but I now think one is probably better ( cos Cobie said so lol ).

ONE

The synchronicity of the DaoBums provides... a brief description of working with the tsa, lung, and thigles in the Bön tradition, recently posted on FB by a young practitioner from Menri monastery in Himachal Pradesh for any curious -

the ways or teachings of renunciates are often being quoted at this site but a householder/family person can not rightly be a renunciate and also fulfill their householder dharma at the same time....In many/most Hindu traditions when a householder has fulfilled that dharma then they can transition to being a renunciate, whereas some become vowed renunciates/monks or nuns of an order at a very early age. What problems have you seen along such lines?

This is why I have cleared my ignore list. Because whatever they have to say, whether it makes me mad or angry, is showing me a side of me. And regardless, I need to face that as part of my journey to be a better person. Somedays, I wish I wasn't trying to be a better person. Yeah, Still got a massive ego.

Ah! Yes I meant mental of course lol

I have an idea that sometimes what can seem precognitive might actually be karmic moments that are bound to happen as part of working out karma.

I didnt even think of food when this sub forum opened . Good idea ! I am not even going to watch it anyway ... I have not had dinner yet and it would be torture . I used to go to this trad African restaurant in Sydney , years back. It was there for a long time ; simple food, wooden bowls and utensils, simple furnishings , but the flavors ! YUM . I dont know what it was , it looked like a few veggies in some thin stew . Everything was good . Now ? Its crap , as is a lot of 'ethnic food' where I live now anyway , its either all looking like some version of a spring roll , a curry puff or something similar to a meatball , rice and salad :{

One one was a firehorse Two two was one two One one won a race won day and 22112 . One

Likewise. Practice more important than intellectualism but I find fascinating the relationship between inner reality according to the Taoist framework (and also a bit of Buddhism too) and Western cosmology.

something for us bums to consider: "...If you do not strive with others, You will be free from blame." from Chapter 8 T.T.C. (I'd say Steve has often been setting this example)

I like two. The color of the outline and the transparency appeal more to my eye.

I can relate. I rarely read or ponder this sort of thing any longer. I spend far more time practicing than studying or thinking about it. On the other hand, some topics do catch my interest and this happens to be one.

One.

^ those ones have a different way of 'cracking your back'

The smallest unit of whatever . meaning changes in usage and context 3 things actually ( Law of Threes ) ; the very big (astrophysics ) , the very small ( quantum physics ... hence the above definition ) and the ;middle world' - where we live ( physics ) in the higher and lower, variations of the laws that apply to the middle are observable . Because logic was developed in the middle world . But only when observed through certain 'measuring devices' ... not observing via human consciousness .... there is your hint . To make t simple ( although a bad and wrong example, it is just to get the idea across ; if you look at everything with rose tinted glasses ..... It is basically about 'non local consciousness ' . Materialistic model is consciousness is generated by brain ... brain dead - consciousnesses gone . Non local 'scientific model' - parts of the brain act as receivers for non localized and generated consciousness , other parts of the brain generate lower types of consciousnesses - hence when we die , some aspects of 'self' are gone but other aspects of consciousness continue . In the pure non-local scientific view .. all of consciousness is received by the brain and does not generate it .... that seems to suggest all consciousness might survive non brain function . All models are not fully understood and seem to contain 'problems' . The 'four forces' are of physics .... if you have read my paper on 3:4 theory (number theory ) 1 would be electro-magnetism ( where all these strange quarky things reside .. we are not sure what it actually is but it splits into two ... just like the Dao ... + and - (poles) or strong and weak forces strong holds thing together , unlike gravity , in a 'stretchy way ' ( meaning the further apart , the stronger it gets ) weak force allows particles to decay or change their nature . [ Like entropy and negentropy being the 'states' or results of the mechanisms , while positive and weak forces are the physical mechanisms ] all three in interaction produce * 4. gravity .... which is considered a weaker force than the others . * this idea of the three producing the forth is affirmed by my number theory and was considered wacky . I floated it years back in talks on neo-hermetics . of course not many were interested or could follow, I remember Brian was up for it and found my observations interesting ( when we discussing the mathematical formula for the ' Theory of everything '..... but now science has moved on ! - see below ;

Hi Steve, Sorry to interfere with your conversation with Bindi but I feel like comenting on what you have written with an example of a dream. I remember buying my first DDJ in my 20's in a time of my life of great confusion. After giving it some 5 minutes of attention I simply quit and put it on a shelf untouched for the next 2 years. The thing was too obscure for me I was expecting clear instructions about a healthy Chinese way of living. By that time don't know if before or after buying the book I had a dream where I was riding a blue ox that was taking me to "soul-land". The dream left a strong impression on me altough I couldn't grasp its meaning. Two years after having bought the DDJ I finally gave it the attention it needs and found it an amazing book of wisdom. Still, it must have taken me some 5 more years before understanding the symbology in that dream. Just my experience... Don't think that Bindi is defending that all dreams are untouched by our conditioning but a few in fact seem to be.

baby don't hurt me don't hurt me no more

There is an interesting hypothesis of consciousness being rooted in quantum states in intra-neuronal microtubules. This is a collaboration between an anesthesiologist, Stuart Hameroff, and physicist, Roger Penrose. There are plenty of valid criticisms but it's an interesting line of inquiry. https://academic.oup.com/nc/article/2025/1/niaf011/8127081?login=false https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188?via%3Dihub

Here ya go ; Ahemait, the "Devourer of the Dead". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammit

Or sometimes they are .... ( my silly fav dream ) ; I am riding my old Triumph motorcycle , I make a turn and suddenly I am in the street I used to have to walk down to get from the train station to my old school . But now there are deck chairs all over the road and women in bikinis sun baking on them . I realize they are the nurses I used to work with when I worked in the hospital , Slowly weaving in and out of them I loose control and drop the motorcycle . It splits open from end to end and is hollow in the middle with lugs on one side and holes in the other - just like those airfix model planes I used to make as a kid . I am standing there looking at it confused ... my mother comes out from one of the flats and yells at me .

I have had you on the ignore list for a long time. And now you have reminded me of why that was. Yes, facepalm is a disagreement. But, you are free to view it as any way you would like. That is the beauty of emojis. Cause they represent more of an emotion rather than words. Live long and prosper.