old3bob

nice research but again more or less sounding like its leaves out the all important and critically safe foundation of the first 2 and then 3rd steps of Raja yoga (or other parallel measures in other systems) that prevent premature and or very risky practices by beginner's. There are several thousands of hatha yoga studios all over the world but only a tiny handful of deeply qualified hatha yoga masters. Buyer beware imo.

Mark, those were only tiny quotes from me concerning the huge body of yoga teachings!! I'd say that we can rest assured that real yoga masters (or true gurus) who have reached and maintained the last step of Raja Yoga, and or other forms of yoga teachers who have also reached that same last step per their school would get into more details for their students about channels along the way and when they decide it is appropriate. People can spend a lifetime(s) looking into this vast subject and Hinduism, thus a few paragraph's on this website do not hardly scratch the surface imo! For instance one could study a great deal about Lord Shiva, who is called the Lord of Yoga (and Shaivism), who Btw. is also recognized in several forms of Buddhism, perhaps by different names, anyway picking out info just on channels does not nearly address a very comprehensive subject although it's part of it. Btw #2 I'm not a qualified teacher, only someone trying to share the tiny bit I know of.

Well, there are many forms of Yoga that can be looked up on the web...karma, bhakti and jnana yoga are three major ones. Btw. the steps of Raja yoga listed below and followed under a teacher guidance are very important! 1. Yama - Self-control. 2. Niyama- Discipline. 3. Asana - Physical exercises. 4 .Pranayama - Breath exercises. 5. Pratyahara - Withdrawal of the senses from external objects. 6. Dharana - Concentration. 7. Dhyana - Meditation. 8. Contemplation so if we are on step one or even before that and try to skip the steps a teacher (or no teacher) has directed one to (a head teacher has gone through all the steps) and jump to step four in this list then trouble is very highly likely to follow as several folks have recounted at this site. more details on first two steps found on the web which require a lot:: "Yama - Self-Control consists of five principles: Ahimsa - Non-Violence Ahimsa means not to cause pain or harm to any living being by thought, word or deed. Non-violence also means not to kill. Consumption of meat requires the death of an animal. It is due to this principle that Yogis are Vegetarian. Animals have a keen instinct, which heightens their awareness of impending death. They sense when they are to be slaughtered and are in mortal fear. Fear and stress hormones are released throughout their body. These hormones remain in the flesh of the slaughtered animal and are eaten by unsuspecting people. Many apparently groundless fears, neuroses and psychoses have their origin in this food. Satya - Truthfulness To always speak the truth is good and correct, but more important is how we convey the truth. We have the capacity to hurl truth at someone like a knife, but we are also capable of clothing that same truth in loving words. In order not to violate the principle of Ahimsa as mentioned above, we should heed the advice of Mahaprabhuji, who said: “Each of your words should fall like flowers from your lips”. To be truthful also means not to hide your feelings, not to be evasive or make excuses. Perhaps for some time we can hide our true face from the eyes of others, but there is at least one person knows our inner truth - our own self. Our own consciousness is a witness. Asteya - Non-Stealing Asteya means that you should never take anything that rightfully belongs to another. This means not only material objects, but also the stealing of mental property, to rob someone of an opportunity, hope or joy. The exploitation of nature and destruction of the environment also fall into this category. Brahmacharya - Pure Way of Life Brahmacharya is often translated as sexual abstinence. But it actually consists of much more. Brahmacharya means that our thoughts should always be turned towards God. This doesn’t imply that we should neglect our duties in this world. On the contrary, we should fulfil these responsibilities with great care, but always with the awareness: “I am not the doer, God alone is the doer”. Aparigraha - Non-Accumulation of Possessions We should not accumulate goods, but only acquire and use what we need to live. One who has many possessions, also has many worries. We are born without belongings and when we again depart from this world, we leave all behind. Nonaccumulation also means to grant other people their freedom - not to hold onto others. In letting go, we also free ourselves. Therefore, to give freedom means to also to be free one’s self. Niyama - Discipline consists of five principles: Shauca - Purity Not only external purity, but more importantly, inner purity. Our clothing, our body, as well as our thoughts and feelings should be pure. The same holds true for the people we associate with. For our spiritual development it is of great benefit to keep good company of people who impart a good influence upon us, who are spiritual and support us with their wisdom. Santosh - Contentment Contentment is the greatest wealth we are able to possess. The Indian poet Tulsidas, said: “You may possess mines of gold and precious stone, but inner discontent destroys all wealth”. We can attain contentment only when we recognise that all worldly goods bring disappointment and that inner wealth provides more happiness than material possessions. Tapa - Self-Control, Self-Discipline In life, when we encounter adversity and obstacles, we should never give up. Rather we should continue on our chosen path with firm determination. To continue to practice, with self-discipline, patience and perseverance - this is the key to success. Svadhyaya - Study of the Holy Scriptures As Yoga aspirants we ought to acquaint ourselves with the traditional scriptures of Yoga philosophy, such as the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, etc. These scriptures impart valuable knowledge and provide great assistance on our Yoga path. Ishvara Pranidhana - Devotion to God Hand over all that you do to the Divine Self with pure devotion. God protects all who surrender with trust and faith.

several thousand years of yoga science and research has been done, and beginners have been warned not to do advanced science experiments on their own without qualified teachers for the same amount of time...

true enough which in no way negates or limits any other ways spirit may try to reach out, for instance a wise master may come along and knock us up the side of the head (mostly figuratively although that may not always be the case) and that too can work as a different form of connection/teaching.

does that include quickly checking to see if anybody saw us stumble...as we all tend to do and also laugh at ourselves if seen, and even if the fall hurt...

and women do not need to feel exempt from this technique ;-) (more so since it is said they have better lower body strength than men...)

I imagine the master could, but the student would still have to practice at it...;-)

"There was a Zen monastery where many disciples gathered to learn from the master. Of all the disciples, the newest disciple was the most active, taking up lots of work. If his master wanted something, he would reach his side before anyone else. He instantly completed any tasks given to him by his master. He was the last to sleep and the first to wake up and begin the daily chores. The master took note of this and asked him one day, "Where were you before you came here?" The disciple replied, "I was learning from Shaling Kyu." "Oh, Shaling Kyu! I have heard about him. Once when he was walking on a bridge, he tripped and fell into the water. Right?" asked the master. "Yes, Master." "Do you know that he became realized at that very moment?" "I didn’t know about that. But he has written a poem about his realization." "Do you remember that poem?" "Yes master, I remember." "Then tell me." "I have found a pearl. For long time dust and dirt had covered its brightness. Now the dust has flown away. The dirt is gone. Brightness has been born. The mountains and the rivers have been lit with its light." The moment he finished reciting this poem, the master let out a loud laugh. The disciple was confused, "What is so funny about this poem? Why did the Master laugh?" But no matter how much he thought about it, he could not find an answer. His sleep was ruined that night. The moment he got up the next morning, he came looking for his master. "Oh, Master! Why did you laugh when I told you that poem yesterday?" The master said, "You are worse than a clown." "What?" "Yes, clowns make others laugh, but you get terrified if someone laughs." Saying this, he started laughing loudly again. This laughter of the master enlightened his disciple. "

Jeff Foxworthy said he'd like to go also....but not Larry. and since we got off topic a bit how about a laugh?

it can get 20 or whatever times worse...so you might want to reconsider things?

we could say "love" ranges from a A-Z so it depends on what you mean by it. Remember the "free love" movement that was often not free at all with STD's and painful phycological impacts. It sounds like you mean the Love from God but that too is open to major differences about its workings...

several of those householders you've mentioned are members of schools and have teachers which they have mentioned, so that is one of the stages...(or they had such at one time or another)

yea that is the saying , but without aligned power to back it up it is idealistic and impressionable which can also be dangerous. (and there are those waiting for such to come along)