old3bob

It is so simple that It is shocking for a moment, a shocking Joy that springs forth in the truth of simplicity that consumes (or strips away) all convoluted and binding complexity yet does no harm.

Dwai, I think that's a keeper article

speaking of unfolding...there is unfolding per chaos and unfolding per dharma and such per dharma takes will, thus divine will and order has to be more than a standing-off or just witnessing.

it could be a slippery slope from detachment to apathy or even nihilism is what I was getting at...

I imagine some can do ice cream and sex at the same time

... in the first sentence above where it advocates "indifference" I have some reservations about that or at least with that word usage and its general meaning. If it means indifference to the temptations of worldly things and being lost in identification with same as later implied then fine...anyway does this upanishad from a long ago time period and culture assume that that is how the reader should or does interpret the first sentence? (for no spiritual or most any kind of practice can succeed through indifference in the general meaning of the word) I also have reservations with the words, "separate from all" near the end of this quote. If "separate from all" means unbound by and thus transcendent to all although also witness of all then fine...adding that per non-duality there can really be no separate from per-se, or no separation between Siva and Shakti and all of Shakti's permutations as mentioned earlier in this upanishad as, "Self residing in all forms". thus words and their meanings are important, more so since every one of us may read something slightly or very different into them. Comments?

Not by work, nor by progeny, nor by wealth, but by devotion to him and by indifference to the world, does a man reach immortality. Retire into solitude. Seat yourself on a clean spot and in erect posture, with the head and neck in a straight line. Be indifferent to the world. Control all the sense organs. Bow down in devotion to your Guru. Then enter the lotus of the heart and there meditate on the presence of Brahman—the pure, the infinite, the blissful. Unmanifest to the senses, beyond all thought, infinite in form, is God. The seers meditate on him and reach the source of all beings, the witness of all. He who knows him conquers death. There is no other way to liberation. The mind may be compared to a fire-stick, the syllable OM to another. Rub the two sticks together by repeating the sacred word and meditating on Brahman, and the flame of knowledge will be kindled in your heart and all impurities will be burnt away. He, as the Self, resides in all forms, but is veiled by ignorance. When he is in the state of dream that men call waking, he becomes the individual self… he is happy or miserable because of the creations of his mind. In the three states of consciousness, whatever appears as the enjoyer or the object of enjoyment, I am the witness thereof, separate from all. I am pure consciousness. I am the eternal Shiva. I am the knower…. I was not born; I have neither body, nor senses, nor mind, I, the Supreme Self, dwell in the lotus of the heart. I am pure. I am One without a second. Om Tat Sat Kaivalya Upanishad

to interject, of course mind has limits in mind stuff itself, thus THINGS may spin around and mix and morph infinitely in mind yet they are still limited to what could be called the many dimensions of mind. (or variations of THINGS)

ah, there's a self pro-claimer here running off at the mouth, "how low can he go"?, (or violent can he go ?) Anyway I'd say Dwai and the most of rest of us here have been around the block.

Sat Guru Grace is a connection/connector/synchronizer to the main buss of Spirit so to speak. Not unlike the synchronizing and thus joining of a small electrical generator to what is likened to or called an infinite electrical buss in utility terms, and after making that connection the main buss then helps stabilize and or lock in the small generator's frequency and voltage to keep it on line, btw. connecting a generator to the main buss improperly could blow it up if its safety devices do not kick it out of the circuit if its not properly set up to synchronize via closely matching the frequency and voltage of the main buss. (although and of course not in amperage) Jai Sat Guru!

I'd add that at some point trust needs to come into the mix, not unlike it does in any positive or meaningful relationship. Like even with a TI in boot camp who if they are any good besides being strict want to see recruits do well and go on to the next step. (Although some of those TI's get into power trips)

these concepts via intellect may more or less be grasped... but not the Self that the concept tries to point to, for it can never be grasped by or held down by powers of the mind which would make it a THING. thus it is not us as human beings through powers of the mind and feelings that realizes the Self, for only the Self can realize the Self which it never forgot...a quandary for us identified as human beings yes - and I'm definitely not a qualified guru about it, just someone dropping some reflections here and there.

another thing that has happened in a lot of blue collar jobs is zero tolerance for an understandable mistake with extenuating factors, thus not a careless or lazy mistake. Example: say you have a good and safe work history of 20 years and then one day you come to work and make that kind of mistake where no one is hurt and or there are no damages to equipment yet you missed or misunderstood one thing or one step out of say 50 and you are fired. I've seen this happen to where people become afraid to do their job and if or when they do it, it often takes twice as long with extra layers of people and layers of paperwork. The hypocrisy is that the supervisors doing the firing are quite human and also make understandable mistakes at times yet are immune from being fired for it. This makes for very low moral and loss of what could otherwise be normal work production. (aka double standards and use of negative reinforcement)

have 10,000 helpings of every type of ice cream and it won't be enough...have sex 10,000 times with every kind of partner and it won't be enough... come to know what is enough or one will suffer/"burn out". also the higher pleasure of dharmas fulfilled are always greater than sensory pleasures that can go awry.