old3bob

another thing is that for a very long time (in history) more advanced methods were kept secret while a student was carefully watched and proven to be ready and able to move on with certain methods. Now there is so much material available in books and on the internet that many of the traditional safeguards are long gone...with some folks diving right in, for instance with Kundalini Yoga!

meaning in the sense of self-designed manipulation which ego can be so clever or hidden about

Being that I have an electrical background I like the term transformer, with all beings in creation having their place as a transformer at some level to to some degree. For instance a spiritual master being like a transformer of more powerful energies so that a "normal" human being can withstand and benefit from them....btw none of us can earn grace or mercy , grace and mercy are ones doing the choosing.

jokers are not dumb, but....

I'd say there are impersonal and personal aspects, don't confuse the two. To paraphrase "The Tao master (manifest right hand of Tao so to speak) is always good at saving..."

I'd say that's a stereotype not fact...(so using it to apply to "all" people does not hold water even if it did applied to some people, btw we can not say that all the innocent happy beautiful kids in the world who ended up in wasted nightmares or even dead because of illegal and legal drugs had that "innate" to themselves! )

no one is getting enlightened without facing down the powers of the 7 hells and sealing them off (within and without) and then also seeing death die. So who still wants too sacrifice everything for it? It's not too hard as some say....just shutter your eyes, watch your breath and "meditate" or could there be more to it?

meaning typical type of aside or remark from Nungali

I agree that it is all happening at once but that is of the very most advanced actual realization/insight....for maybe one out of a billion of us that might be able to maintain for more than an earth minute or an hour, etc. (btw, are eight out of the 8 billion of those here at Tao bums? probably not ) (we can include that there is no enlightenment in a FUTRUE time after working our asses off studying 10 thousand volumes and doing all the needed Yoga's for multiple lifetimes, that is since it is all happening at once in ultimate reality)

typical remark

true that that can not be corrupted, but all other vehicles from physical, astral (emotional/mental) and higher can be....(per various problems or falls, that is until the point of no going back is finished)

can't say I agree with that T.T.

when & why can seeking enlightenment be dangerous? We've heard a lot of night-mare accounts from various members on this subject, what is your take? (and how to back-off when you or things go to hell)

we could make it simple and just use an example like, the sun is real and a ray from it is also real....or the absolute is real and an emanation from it is also real. (btw there are different but similar spellings for, Brahman aka absolute, and Brahmin a member of the priestly caste. although Brahman is sometimes used for Brahmin which I don't believe is really correct, and so there is no "brahmen". Also Lord Brahma the creator/god aspect, is not Brahman which newcomers to Hinduism sometimes get crossed-up )

then there is the disappearance of everything ...(which is disconcerting )