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Does paying an ultimate price lead to gaining an ultimate reward? Spiritually speaking. Sometimes the best response is counter intuitive.

The first precept is: "I vow to abstain from taking life". The way I have been taught the precepts is they are not closed. In other words, sometimes it's necessary to break a precept. I imagine it's different for other traditions, but I don't know. So, for me and the precepts I have taken, it's always situational, and we use our wisdom to determine the correct course of action in any given situation. The precepts have only one job - help us wake up. They aren't there to judge others, or to be an ironclad code of conduct. I don't know anything about the Tibetan stuff and Milarepa. Karma unwinds in it's own time. There is a saying that goes something like: "If you want know your future, look at what you are doing right now." _/|\_

No politics! Stop it or thread will be locked.

Thank you for your response! May I clarify some hidden issues here. The martial artist do not used modern biological language is because they are lack of knowledge how the human body works biologically. There is no need for proofs, the modern explanation are self explanatory. It is a matter of comprehension and correlate the microscopic view with the macroscopic view. The relationship are very clear if there was no misunderstanding or one's thinking only swing to one side. Besides, what proof does the ancient text have to make it so believable. Isn't that the modern science theories are more reliable?

This is a good and legitimate question, and I agree it’s worth thinking about, even if it takes us into modern biological language that traditional martial arts never explicitly used, and even if it's difficult to prove. Personally, I’ve mostly approached internal training as efficiency work at the systemic level rather than at the level of individual cells. What internal practice very clearly changes, in my experience, is how the whole system is organized: coordination, load distribution, timing, and the amount of internal resistance present during movement. When those improve, the biological cost of producing force drops. From that perspective, everything I’m describing can already be explained without invoking special cellular mechanisms. If the body stops fighting itself, less co-contraction, less compression, cleaner force transmission, then: less ATP is burned unnecessarily less local tissue stress accumulates recovery demands fall circulation and fluid exchange improve Those changes will inevitably affect tissue and cellular environments, even if we don’t measure them directly. Better microcirculation, improved nutrient delivery, and more efficient waste removal are very plausible downstream effects, but I see them as secondary consequences of improved system organization, not the primary driver. So yes, in my view it’s reasonable to assume that long-term internal training creates better conditions at the tissue and cellular level. But I’m cautious about flipping the explanation around. Internal training doesn’t work because cells are doing something exotic; rather, cells benefit because the system above them has become more coherent and economical. I’ll add one personal observation, because this was what caused me to start thinking along these lines. The effect I notice most clearly is a dramatically reduced need for recovery. The last few years I've been training in BJJ and MMA in addition to my internal training. And I notice that I’m able to tolerate repeated high-intensity sessions with far less DOMS and systemic fatigue than many training partners who are 15–20 years younger (I'm 42). I don’t attribute this simply to being “better conditioned” in the conventional sense, nor to genetics. Rather, I think internal training has changed how my conditioning is expressed. Lower internal friction during effort, less unnecessary tension, cleaner force transmission, and fewer local tissues being overloaded or compressed, means the same work carries a lower biological cost. The work is simply “cheaper” to do. I have a bunch of draft articles around this topic that I’ll be posting soon, as it’s become a particularly interesting aspect of my training over the last couple of years. I’ve also done some recent physiological testing that produced a few surprising results, for example, a VO₂ max of at least 65, despite never having done specific endurance training. I don’t take this as proof of anything mystical, but as another data point about how efficiency and conditioning interact. Internal training lowers the biological cost of movement; that reduced cost lowers recovery demands, which allows for more frequent, higher-quality training, and over time supports improved conditioning.

Breatharianism is absolutely not even remotely related to fasting, and is a dangerous, cult-like pursuit. I recommend removing this thread.

(is this how she thinks?) ...what did you say honey?

By Deng Ming-Dao SEGMENTATION AND TRANSLATION See this block of text? It’s the arrangement of the first chapter of the Dàodéjīng before the last hundred years. If you open an old Chinese version of the Dàodéjīng, each chapter will be a block of text. No punctuation, word spacing, capital letters, or paragraphs. Distinguishing between single words and compound terms remains as much of a problem today as it was in ancient times. Imagine reading chapter 1 without the punctuation added in the early twentieth century. Reading the Dàodéjīng in its old form thus began with a practice called segmentation. You can find red dots, hóngdiǎn, 紅點, in the margins of used books, indicating where past readers began dividing, deciding, and decoding. This practice was called “sentence division,” jùdòu, 句讀, and is still done today when reading the received classics—and with only partial consensus: “Many researchers have tested Chinese native speakers’ word segmentation; a common finding is that participants can only reach about 75% agreement, and have difficulties replicating their own previous segmentation.” (Zhang, 2024) Even after the segmentation process, the text continues to challenge modern readers. The Dàodéjīng lacks plurality; past, present, or future tense; pronouns, conjunctions, prepositions; gendered nouns; or punctuation, word spacing, or paragraph indents. Sentences might not have a subject. Verbs lack conjugation. Moreover, Chinese ideograms are sometimes used singly and sometimes combined to make compound terms. Lǎozì may employ a compound term in one case and then use those constituent words separately in other cases. For example, line 71.1 uses the word for “know,” zhī, 知, four times: 知不知上不知知病. This translates to: “know don’t know superior; don’t know, know sick.” Bùzhī, 不知, means “not know.” Otherwise, zhī, 知, should be read as a single word. If you combine the issues of segmentation with the multiple-meanings of words, you can see that no single, absolutely “right” version is possible. Reading the Dàodéjīng in Chinese is like getting a box of ideograms on tiles, and then trying to assemble them as if it was a Scrabble game. This makes translation an interpretive as much as a critical process. Of course, everybody today will use the punctuated versions, but it’s worth remembering that segmentation is arbitrary and once had to be provided by each reader. Nevertheless, gaining the wisdom of the Dàodéjīng is well worth the effort! That's why it's survived for 2,600 years and has spread around the world.

true on the first two paragraphs, which could have some slippery slopes to deal with...as humans there are times that we would like karma to speed up, slow down, or kick in but it doesn't follow our desires...besides there being more to it than easily discernible simple action/reaction that one might know or see.

good point, especially spiritually speaking...

true or not, I dont know, but it just popped up on my feed so… I think I’ll stop thinking about the Sith Lord Klaus Schwab for a while and go take a beer in the sauna. God bless you all 🤍❤️🕊️

Well, the «lawful» and «peaceful» are the ones poisoning our food, trafficking kids and sacrificing a couple of millions in Ukraine so.. f them. It is not the law that keeps me from robbing my neighbors. I think communities are able to govern themselves if they are given a sense of ownership, which we are not, because the lawful people in Davos or Brussels or wherever the f tell us they need to protect us from ourself.

I declare myself above the law. Space if we get back to true democracy, rule by the people, the thing/assembly, I’ll reconsider. But I’m tired of these part time security guards in fancy clothes telling me stuff.

Can we conclude that they are creeps and simply not recognize their authority? That’s my choice of action, anyway.

It's been underway 62 years and some odd days. From about 5:40 to 6:14, The entire video lays it out.

The confusion is yours.

Test or believe. Humanity is changing!

Yeah, I remember 20 years ago I used to visit Buddhist Center where the taught Loving Kindness. The method was to visualize light coming from top into the body and then sitting in this light. When I asked teacher is not it a fake light she replied that it does not matter in the beginning. Just imaging it and it will do the work. To me it seems to be form of psychology but might help to be calmer. But later one will lose Ming with it. Of course they did not forget to charge people after class

Again - this is NOT Dao attainment yet. You can not attain it without step by step transformation stages. Daoist theory is first you complete yuan qi and jing restoration and then join it with yuan shen and this is continuous process. I dont have yang shen and can't say now but they say if you have it you can travel in it in physical world. This is like subtle body of light. If you say you have DAOIST realization you must be able to do it. Can you?

No ... you should not have posted it in the first place . Some people have been sued for promoting it . besides its a stupid OP . If you cant understand why its stupid , why did state how dangerous it was and then immediately ask for sources on learning it ? Anyway apparently if you do it , its okay to eat chocolate cake or cheesecake ; here are some sources for you ; The dangerous fake new age 'Jasmuheen' ( an Aussie fraudster ) ; '' The Australian television programme 60 Minutes challenged Jasmuheen to demonstrate how she could live without food and water. The supervising medical professional Dr. Beres Wenck found that, after 48 hours, Jasmuheen displayed symptoms of acute dehydration, stress, and high blood pressure.[4] Jasmuheen claimed that this was a result of "polluted air". On the third day, she was moved to a mountainside retreat about 15 miles from the city, where she was filmed enjoying the fresh air, claiming she could now successfully practice inedia. But as filming progressed, Jasmuheen's speech slowed, her pupils dilated, and she lost over a stone (6 kg or 14 lb) in weight. After four days, she acknowledged that she had lost weight, but stated that she felt fine. Dr. Wenck stated: "You are now quite dehydrated, probably over 10%, getting up to 11%." The doctor continued: "Her pulse is about double what it was when she started. The risk if she goes any further is kidney failure."[4] Jasmuheen's condition continued to deteriorate rapidly due to acute dehydration, despite her contrary insistence. Dr. Wenck concluded that continuing the experiment would ultimately prove fatal. The film crew agreed with this assessment and stopped filming '' Normally, when not trying to prove anything , of course, she eats . What does she eat ? '' Regarding her intake of food, Jasmuheen said:[5] "Generally not much at all. Maybe a few cups of tea and a glass of water, but now and then if I feel a bit bored and I want some flavour, then I will have a mouthful of whatever it is I'm wanting the flavour of. So it might be a piece of chocolate or it might be a mouthful of a cheesecake or something like that ... '' and '' ...Visitors to her large villa in the prosperous Chapel Hill area of Brisbane invariably find her refrigerator generously stocked with food ... '' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasmuheen

Inedia (Latin for 'fasting') or breatharianism (/brɛˈθɛəriənɪzəm/ breth-AIR-ee-ən-iz-əm) is the claimed ability for a person to live without consuming food, and in some cases water. It is a pseudoscientific practice, and several adherents of these practices have died from starvation or dehydration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia Are there any practicing masters of breatharianism alive today? If I wanted to learn these techniques are there good books or resources available?

Not one sided - I simply take issue with the idea that there any one tradition has some monopoly on realzation, what is realized, and how to do it, my friend. I have a couple of friends that I have met along the way who did NONE of these practices and had complete realization. One is actually a stoic! In my opinion practices don't precipitate realization, but they DO make us more prone to realization ( (possibly not ALL of them). The practice isn't the cause, however, in my experience the cause is the realization itself - a misconception clarified. Are practices valuable? Certainly anyone who has ever taken up meditation for at least 20 minutes most days will see within a month that they are calmer, less reactive, kinder, etc. I'm not against practice, at all, but the discussion is about realization.

The methods are unimportant. They point to the fruit, but are not ultimately the fruit of the path. I don't see any "approved" methods mentioned by Zhongli Quan. How would such a list be helpful without the "approved" methods being shared? Ultimately there are as many gates as there are people to find them.

The complete realization of non-duality is not a "state"... it doesn't come and go, and doesn't come in flavors. I has NO qualities. You can describe it in different ways, but those are descriptions, not the state itself. What is your percieved difference between "emptiness" and "yang shen"?

Forget Buddhism. Religions and practices make give you glimpses of enlightenment or realization, but are not the realization themselves. Realization is the permanent seeing of emptiness/Dao/Brahman in this moment. It isn't something that happens because you are practicing, It doesn't come and go - isn't a state... it is a permanent shift in how reality is seen and understood. The teacher I worked with was Gyatrul Rinpoche. He is pretty old now, but you might be able to meet him.

Well, if the consensus is it being fake. Can we simply say its fake and leave the thread where it is for future reference.

While I realise that this thread might be cathartic or therapeutic for some of the posters on here, for most of us it just serves as a warning not to have anything to do with anyone involved. I think it might be worth while thinking about what exactly the purpose of all this bickering online is. As a moderator I am considering locking the thread as I don’t want the board consumed by this dispute. A.

I definitely agree. The story also expands your thought processes to what is possible and the world itself is really REALLY small. True Rudi isn’t my teacher but he made a damn good book that’s an excellent read if you are cultivating with any lineage.

Regarding gTummo teachings I heard from Lama Dawai that the order would be Yantra Yoga, then Trulkhor, then gTummo. I did a lot of energy work and found it useful. Though the knowingness of experience so to speak is the same. There are people who just sit in satsangs for 20 years Nisargadatta style with a simple pointing out that everything the mind says is a story and 'unreal' with a pointing to the real. See Sailor Bob Adamson and Sailor Sisters on YouTube for evidence. The view from the top of the mountain is the same. How we get to the top is different.

Excerpt from BKS Iyengar, "Light on Yoga" "The yogi opposes the evil in the wrong-doer, but not the wrongdoer. He prescribes penance not punishment for a wrong done. Opposition to evil and love for the wrong-doer can live side by side. A drunkard's wife whilst loving him may still oppose his habit. Opposition without love leads to violence; loving the wrong-doer without opposing the evil in him is folly and leads to misery. The yogi knows that to love a person whilst fighting the evil in him is the right course to follow. The battle is won because he fights it with love." ( implied between human beings)

And it is entirely possible to have the same realization with energy work, why so one-sided?. And it is possible to do a lot of work and not having a realization about reality, but having other experiences that a tradition values and call spiritual. It is even possible that, lets say a theravada buddhist, doesn't call it energywork but still practice it, because nomenclature differs between traditions and there is more to it than breathing methods and pushing energy into the head. Just imagine the possibilities😁 I feel that you are playing with words. If you do not think that practice causes realization, why did you spend so much time practicing? Why do you mention that people with a few months of practice might get short spiritual experiences, instead of saying "I watched football with the gang last saturday, and darn if we all didn't have a glimpse of reality"?

The word "evil" is useful if you´re an author writing a thriller about serial killers. Less useful is you´re trying to have a rational conversation. In practice, it´s usually used by people who want to distance themselves from their shadows through projection (all the bad things I refuse to recognize in myself go in the evil basket). It´s also handy for depressives who want to load up on self-loathing. Evil does exist, I´m pretty sure. But it´s a hard thing to talk about because the word carries too much emotional weight.

The point Deng Ming-Dao was making and I agree with is, anyone who claims a better understanding of DDJ solely on the merit of being fluent in Chinese, or being a respected Sinologist, or even a lineage taoist, is ultimately in the same boat as a native English speaker dealing with Beowulf, only a bigger one. I.e. knowing the modern version of the language, by itself, or knowing the culture and traditions, or their development through the ages, is still nowhere near enough to make claims about presenting "the correct version." Even the meaning of the very first line, which became a meme of sorts, is the product of interpretations rather than of Laozi's calligraphy brush -- which produced only this opening: "Tao can be told, tao is not eternal." So one has to superimpose the kind of grammar (absent from the original) that will allow to ascribe to Laozi a statement that not only was never made by him but is the opposite of what he actually wrote verbatim. And then just repeat it for two and a half thousand years. That beats Lewis Carrol's "what I tell you three times is true" with a vengeance. But what if we don't do that? What if we take those words for face value instead? Then this line can be read as, say, the opening manifesto of a writer who asserts his right to write about tao. Tao can be told. I, Laozi, can tell you about it. I can tell about it here and now. I am not an eternal being, and so I'm not tackling an eternal subject -- just the here-and-now tao which is what I can tell you about. How's that?

This is your belief. From Awakening to the Tao by Liu I-Ming If you have no interest in the true self what are you doing in the Daoist section?

Yesterday it was extremely slow, it's fine now.

One or 2 disconnections.

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