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As an incomplete saint I help grandmothers halfway across the street. Not perfect but working on it.

Where else would it come from? True knowledge of the Dao comes from teachings that humans have written? This happens all of the time in Buddhism, another non-dual tradition - there is even a name for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddhayāna I have actually met one. They are real... and why wouldn't they be, given the nature of the Dao/Enlightenment? I Agree that a realized teacher can be very useful, but completely understanding the Dao isn't a concept that a teacher can pass on, only point to. It isn't an intellectual concept that a person "owns". A realized teacher can point it out anywhere, at any time. Any teacher that pushes the idea that they are somehow the gatekeeper of the Dao isn't fully realized and is greatly deluded.

People can use whatever words and say whatever they want outside of neidan, but if you are talking about neidan, use the correct terminology and meanings

Why do you think that everyone who has experience in a daoist neidan lineage disagrees with Chidragon? Everyone telling him that and still he does not listen at all. As if all these genuine practicioners know nothing. This has nothing to do with predjudice..... but everything he says is so many lightyears away from even basic neidan understanding it is almost impossible to think he is not trolling. It would be like if i say i know how to bake a cake and talk about how it is made of sand and dirt .... and baker would come and say "no this is completely wrong" but i would accuse them to be the baker police and they being full of predjudice.

This case is about basic psychology. In Daoism, nothing serious can be achieved without a teacher. That’s a law. But there are people who want to deceive the Dao and themselves. I have read on this forum that some people believe it's possible to achieve 'transmission of knowledge' directly from the Dao and that a teacher is not necessary. This approach is dangerous both for those who believe in this concept and for others to whom they spread these ideas. This is another reason why no one will widely share their practice and knowledge — these people will start inventing their own methods, achieving 'significant' results as they see it, and then teaching others while also making money from it. Such cases have happened more than once. ChiDragon is trying to convince himself that he is doing everything right, he doesn't need the opinions of others. He is here to teach. The outcome of such an approach leads to deviations that become increasingly difficult to correct over time, and in some cases some people can descend into madness. They no longer understand what is happening to them

ok If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

Yes please do.

It's a good way to gauge where people are coming from. Also, I'm curious about your opinion because I have feeling you may have some good information. That's true, but I would think this applies broadly. Neidan practitioners have sort of done it themselves with the secrets and false information. And to some extent, I suppose sorting things out is a part of the process. But I think the better way to combat misinformation is to provide better public information. Whatever one thinks of ChiDragon's posts, they have at least stimulated some discussion.

When you hear advance level of something. It could be bad news.

Why do you kept spreading false information? On purpose or simply you don't want to study real sources and with real people?

CD is not a troll, he is very genuine always. And his views are based on a lifetime of serious study and practice. All this agitation about a different opinion - should make you think about your own prejudices. If this was the case, it would be of the utmost importance to study CD's view - forewarned is forearmed. I second that.

I will echo this: "Your Father has a gift for you today. It is the gift of Wholeness . . . and it is wrapped in your peace. May every act of kindness, love, care, thankfulness and friendship expressed today spark a light in the eather of the earth and give rise to the spirit of Christ-in-mass. I am with you always, Amen. "

Yes, I think so. The Dao is here, now, not subject to special circumstances, not a special state, or place. Definitely. We are very convinced that we are somehow separate from the Dao is, or that things in this moment are not exactly as they should be. We feel we should be contriving a reality that suits us. All of that activity pushes us further from the simple realization of things as they are. That hasn't been my experience, in fact I believe it is the easiest way. It all comes down to how easily you can surrender your idea of "self" and control. The Way isn't painful, it is the ego/self that creates and experiences the pain, based on its struggle with how reality is perceived. Even in resistance things are still aligned. In meditation we can rest in stillness and see what it is to live without struggle, and realize that there is only the struggle we create. _/\_ Be as nature is!

I am not a troll. I genuinely think CD has taken his system to the pinnacle. Kudos to him. I respect him for that, although there is almost no overlap in opinions. And it is my experience, as an RC mystic, that at the pinnacle one is without human company.

I just disagree. Not going to argue with you. If you can invent your own Ming methods then partially I would agree with you. But I don't know anyone who has invented it. Oh, sorry, my fault, we have one here. Anyone one else? Even CD used taiji practice that was not invented by him

These 2 are also in neigong. But not all neigong systems are good enough. Where else should it be? As for how to know if it is correct - read school/sect texts and check how it correlates with your practice If it does not - you do smth else but not nei...

I would say it is normal to argue or take on each other. But if one is prolific writer and there are so many holes in the writings, it is very hard for the others. Either they have to argue on every point on every posting, which means all out war everyday, and possible accusation of being discriminate or prejudiced, or they just let it go against their understandings or even conscience?

to someone doesn't mean one is being payed for it. so no accusations in that direction on my behalf. anyways, they are everywhere. If you observe closely, I didn't criticize his opinion, but his intention in the OP. He endorses the student while explaining that he isn't sure about the quality of the knowledge shared, while his mind is yet unclear about it. No trouble with expressing opinions, perceptions or values. But teaching lifestyle ethics - to those in need - while not being sure about the quality - seems to me the equivalent to a kid at the gas station playing with a fire lighter near to the gasoline puddle. But that is just my prejudiced opinion, and yeah... sharing opinion and "teaching" might be quite close to each other... - it differs, when one claims 'authority' or tries to change behavior of others, while profiting thereof, I'd say. In my culture, every teacher who confesses he is exploring the concept in the moment just while and when he is teaching on life subjects, while he had no endorsement to teach in that area and no depths of source and security in the tradition, clarity and proven proficiency, - would (yet) not be called a teacher. But even my culture changes. words are vases. who am I to teach? BUT maybe we can get back to topic... the cauldron the bellows the force field the inner fields the entrance the nowayout ...

Need help to cross the street?

Ah,.... you are just trolling us arent you!? I mean co'mon! That can be serious! That sounds like from a kid who has watched some taoist movies and heard a bit here and there about TCM etc. and comes up with his own childish story.

It is serious but I often am overreacting.

Do you realize you are doing the agitation and propaganda section of any modern (e.g. anti-cultural) and authoritarian party (think: CPC / CCP e.g.) a favor with spreading even more confusion and distortions about and thereby further destroying wisdom of the old? Word Wizards, are you doing any good?! If you want to share something you experience, why not share that in simple words of your own? Maybe at some time, someone comments on your experience/perception resembling something known in cultural phenomena of old wisdom?

Yeah, Daoist texts have no merit but ChiDragon' understanding that he has got through AI has it. It does not exist, Daoist made it up. You just have to be "real man" that means: you should be well-read, smart, able to communicate with AI, have biceps, English boots, and you also need to help grandmothers cross the street.

Haha! How could I intend to teach? There is no student here. I am so lonely here. I just want to find someone that I can talk to. Hopefully, we can share some common knowledge.

Coincidentally I mentioned quite some time ago his intention was to teach. He was quite unhappy towards my observation.

No ! This is serious business ! Do you realize all pretzels used to be soft ? ! Thats the original and true pretzel . It wasnt until that upstart , Martin Luther like , Julius Sturgis ( an American , of course ) decided to intentionally bake hard pretzels and market them , thus splitting the holy symbol into two followings . This 'Church of England America Pretzel ' now has influence world wide ; Hard Pretzels: Account for approximately 57% to 76% of total market revenue. Soft Pretzels: Account for approximately 24% to 43% of total market revenue. Thus overthrowing the once true and only pretzel . Gosh ! They are nearly like a 'Communion wafer ' ! ... except you can make them at home . [ No, I have no idea what that is . ]

氣龍, 你怎麼不知道鯉魚在聽? 😋

Xing, Ming and social nature can't be considered separatedly practically speaking because together they form a continuum. Cultivation is the cultivation of everything as one, because you can't cut an individual into pieces to cultivate its parts separatedly. Still, the ratio question is important, so how much and where ? Without knowing the proper ratio per sections of the continuum, how to know what we are doing knowing that this continuum has actually much more than 3 sections ?

我是說他們是在針對我們!

無理更必爭😁

This quote is from DDJ ch. 77 . Imo ch. 77 was not part of the DDJ but later inserted as a commentary. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/56137-ddj-ch-70-81-a-later-addition/?do=findComment&comment=1039255

Isn't the Way always about letting something return to the nature, to let the nature govern? But we are human beings, always trying to rule over everything and everyone, thinking we are the best, the smartest, the only one to be right... To let the nature rule so that nothing is left unattended must really be a very long and difficult Way to follow, a real painful struggle to go through. Different teachings, different teachers, different learners...all forgetting to bow together as one to the nature, the only legitimate master and owner of truth for all living beings. 天之道, 損有餘而補不足. 人之道, 則不然, 損不足以, 奉有餘. How to let the Way of the nature re-order our human ways so that they return to the nature's norm?

I second that.

‘names’ is a mistranslation. 正名 (zheng4 ming2) rectification of morals (名 had various meanings at the time, including ‘morals’)

Thank you so much for your honesty 🌳 Very broadly even.

性 and 命 belong to 道 category. No matter what we do, even discussing here, we are applying them. What one will learn from a teacher is how to apply them (for whom purposes is another problem), so a criteria could be wether one as recieved own practice formula already or not.

Meanwhile I think Chi Dragon might actually be teaching.... but teaching us a different lesson than he is claiming to be.... Words are vases? Did Wittgenstein bring you here, Chi Dragon? Trying to do another Rectification of names ?

A bit off topic but the ccp is actually pretty supportive of taoism in the modern day, theres plenty of other things wrong there like their treatment of vajrayana and tibetans in general but lets not accuse members of being government agents hahaha

Sure, gladly. It starts with TCM. Dan, 丹, is just a pill. It is no different in Western medicine. At first, the Taoist started with the idea of using poisonous chemicals to make pills. The intention of the pills was assumed to make them live longer. However, they took the final product and caused death. Eventually, they tried and tried to bake it in a cauldron and blew up. That was how gunpowder was invented by the Chinese, by the way. So, Taoists thought, since the external method failed. Let's try it internally. They thought there must be something in the body to make it function. They thought the material that makes up the body structure is 精(jing). Something that vitalizes the body is 氣(Qi), Something that drives the body is 神(shen). The three items were called as three treasures. It was assumed they interacted with one another to form an internal pill. The purpose of the pill was for longevity. Instead of calling it a pill, it was called Elixir. So far, this is the introduction of the pill per your request. We will go into the procedure in the next post. PS It is getting late, I must go to bed now. See you all at sunrise! TBC

@ChiDragon Have you read 炁体源流 by 张至顺? Its a modern collection of classic neidan materials with commentary by a taoist hermit Back to the original topic its very close to the neidan that I practice, good source to learn about quanzhen imo Also, theres quite a bit of variation in neidan in the other lineages but within a given lineage things are (mostly) consistent from what ive seen There's some really out there stuff from Wang Wengqing for example

Is there any chance you could outline your basic ideas about how to do Neidan. For instance what is the Dan in your opinion.

The question is, can you still call it a ‘pretzel’ if most of its substantial properties have been exchanged to others and only the resemblance of the form remains? Maybe we should differentiate between the traditional (Brezel, italian) and the consumerist/modern (Pretzel, American), to not have any misunderstandings come up? Words as empty vases. How can anyone ever be sure, the words and concepts sold to him/her/it in meaning and explanation are authentic / solid? If they aren’t? If you look at Edward Arthur Blair and ‘newspeak’ - in the modern world you might be sold something for something else entirely! Try religion, worldview or even concepts as love or enlightenment or death or spirits! So even if I here this is in the abrahamic section, just like other religions/worldviews, - at the basis of storytelling/fables/parables and myths, there is an interpretation of gnosis or perception of world/other/self. Just if there isn’t or it cannot be seen or felt anymore, - to me it’s fake. ?! What is your take on this? When do you realize the essence (and all hope) is lost and the path a dead end? … but then again, there’s people who point out to the sacred in the most profane, so there still might be hope for Jona, whales, reptiles & the like. merry christmas, everyone ✨

Dont pretzelytize ! Pretzelytize ; To convert or attempt to convert someone from one ( a mixed up hodge - podge of ) religion, belief, or opinion to another.

內丹術 is just a virtual concept by the ancient Taoist. There was no physical proof. It is the principle that matters. If you think you understand it, then, practice it the way you think it is. If it works for you, congratulation! I am only a spectator trying to understand what the principle was. I might not believe it. At least, I am trying to figure out what it is saying with the best of my knowledge in my disturbed and distorted mind.

Some books also depict history in a way that makes me laugh, cry, or fall asleep from boredom. But I'm sure shows are capable of doing even more of the above. History, by the way, has never been a reliable account of anything at all, since we all know it's written by the winner. "Until the lioness has her historian, the hunter will always be the hero." And another quote that comes to mind -- from circa 1600: "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason." That's not to say you shouldn't accept the "challenge to read more books." The best of them are among the best things life has to offer. The rest are (or will be) history.

Showing my age,,,