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You’re right that Indo-European material doesn’t prove influence or creation of the Yijing. But Indo-European also isn’t ‘just a language.’ In archaeology and historical linguistics, it refers to real Bronze Age groups who carried IE branches. The Anatolian branch is directly attested in Hittite and related languages in cuneiform from the 2nd millennium BCE, making Hittite the oldest recorded Indo-European language (Hrozný 1915; see, for example, Melchert, “Hittite and Indo-European: Revolution and Counterrevolution,” and the UT Austin Introduction to Hittite). On the steppe side, the Yamnaya horizon is widely accepted in Kurgan-type models as a main candidate for late Proto-Indo-European speakers (Anthony, The Horse, the Wheel, and Language; recent summaries in genetic / linguistic work). The later Sintashta and Andronovo complexes in the southern Urals and Central Asia are generally identified with early Indo-Iranian on the basis of shared burial customs, chariot technology, and linguistic/onomastic evidence (Kuz’mina, The Origin of the Indo-Iranians; Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans; see also syntheses that explicitly describe Andronovo as Indo-Iranian). So “Indo-European” refers both to a reconstructed proto-language and to a set of archaeologically defined Bronze Age populations who spoke its early branches, from Anatolia through the Pontic-Caspian steppe into Central Asia, which is what's being referenced here. And in the context of Chinese culture, that entire belt of steppe, Central Asian, Iranian and Indian polities is precisely what Han and later historians call the “Western Regions” (Xiyu) (as described in the Hanshu “Xiyu zhuan," the Treatise on the Western Regions, in its accounts of Dayuan (Ferghana), Daxia (Bactria), Anxi (Parthia), and Tianzhu (India)). Finally, the specific Yijing study being discussed isn’t resting on linguistic evidence alone. It’s using a mix of structural comparison, statistical patterning, and archaeological / historical context to argue for possible links.

Maybe, but there are some classes of divination that don’t fit that pattern. Trance oracles, ecstatic prophecy, and temple dream oracles deliver long, open answers rather than yes/no verdicts. Full horoscopic astrology also doesn’t collapse into a binary outcome, since it builds a whole scenario by combining many factors. Text-lots that point to long oracle passages work similarly. Even in augury and extispicy, the raw signs aren't binary. Bird behavior and liver marks are open-ended, and the priestly tradition compresses those signs into a paired verdict for state use. Strictly talking about what survives in writing, the earliest divination we see in detail is binary, closed, and coded Mesopotamian liver omens, star omens, and then Shang cracks and later Yijing-style procedures. Those are some of the first known systems where we have tablets, models, and line-by-line rules. But if we're talking about human practice rather than written record, open-ended interpretation likely comes first. People were reading weather, birds, animal behavior, strange births, and dreams long before anybody made a clay liver model or wrote a huge omen series. I agree, and I'm not arguing for or against the connection to Proto-Indo-European influence. I'm just outlining historical timelines for context, placing the both the PIE Influence study and the Roman Legion article into their respective time periods, as well as providing scholarship that shows the Yijing is, at a minimum, rooted in and an evolution of a Shang dynasty oracle system, not a Warring Era creation. The Bronze Age divination methods are also for context, to see how other cultures developed divinatory systems, and to see what patterns can be observed or interpreted.

But this might be the basis of ALL ancient divination in that ( 1 ) its basically easier , regardless of origin , to get an answer from a 'digital' 'binary question ( a yes or no answer ) than one that desires a complex 'story' answer . Ie. it never worked like ; '' Oracle , how should I invade the western lands ? '' Oracle ; '' Wait until winter , use cavalry initially and cut off their left flank , while a rear action cuts their supply chain and Vulture Pass , then proceed to .... '' Its more like '' Oracle should I invade the western lands this winter ?'' or even ; '' Should I invade the western lands by waiting until winter , use cavalry initially and cut off their left flank , while a rear action cuts their supply chain and Vulture Pass , then proceed to ...'' and of course ( 2 ) will follow on from that ; yes and no answers ARE binary or paired structures (ie questions in sequence ) . and from that would develop ( 3 ) and regarding ( 4 ) ummmmm what ? ALL divination or any type , by definition , IS a '' a closed symbolic code that mediates between human questions and divine decisions. '' . What is needed is a demonstrable IE system that is like and predates China's ( maybe that has been shown somewhwere in above posts and I missed it ? ) I did an AI search on the first IE divination systems , no, they dont seem similar to Chinese , so I asked AI for a summary on the issue ; '' There is no widely accepted evidence that ancient Indo-European divination systems directly influenced the Chinese I Ching. The I Ching (or Zhou Yi in its early form) is an indigenous Chinese text whose core methods and philosophy developed independently within ancient Chinese culture, primarily from the Shang and Zhou dynasties (c. 1200–750 BCE). Origins of the I Ching The I Ching originated as a form of cleromancy (divination by lots), evolving from even older Chinese practices involving oracle bones and tortoise shells. The system is based on: Oracle Bones/Tortoise Shells: The earliest known Chinese written records are divinations inscribed on bones and shells from the late Shang dynasty (c. 1200–1050 BCE). Yarrow Stalks/Coins: The later I Ching text itself was a divination manual that used the manipulation of yarrow stalks (and later, coins) to generate random numbers (6, 7, 8, or 9), which were then converted into one of 64 hexagrams (six-line figures of solid or broken lines). Cosmology: The philosophical underpinnings of the I Ching are deeply rooted in Chinese concepts of yin and yang and the five elements (Wuxing), which developed over centuries and became central to both Confucianism and Taoism. Arguments for and Against Influence Most historical linguists and sinologists maintain that Old Chinese is a language family separate from Indo-European, and the two traditions developed largely in isolation regarding these specific practices However, one hypothesis, proposed by sinologist Victor H. Mair and others, suggests that some of the names of the eight I Ching trigrams and a few key terms might have Indo-European linguistic origins due to ancient cultural exchanges across Eurasia. This linguistic hypothesis is not universally accepted within academia and does not necessarily imply that the entire divination system or the underlying philosophy of the I Ching was an import; the practice of divination itself and the structure of the hexagrams remain distinctly Chinese in origin. In summary, while there may have been minor linguistic contact for some terms, the systems of divination themselves are considered to have independent origins and developed within their own distinct cultural and philosophical frameworks. '' Note ; the thin linguistic comparisons relate only to some Chinese words for the trigrams and a a 'few terms ' ... the evidence is far to thin to postulate an origin in the west .

There is an interesting Bönpo practice that is intended to actively exhaust the thinking mind so that it can release into stillness. You reflect on actions of the body, speech, and mind (each individually), taking enough time to really feel and pay attention to how much energy and effort have been expended over time, going as far back in memory as possible. Take as much time as necessary to get a sense of the shear magnitude of all of that expended effort and energy. When the experience reaches a peak and feels overwhelming, you simply let all of it go and rest in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness of the present moment, similar to the feeling of returning home from a long journey or exhausting day of work and settling into your favorite chair or bed and fully allowing body and mind to rest. It's a powerful technique.

Yes, moments performing with slow motion while breathing deep into the LDT. That is Qigong. One might call it something else, but it was still Qigong. Whether you like it or not. All will benefit from it into the journey of longevity. Thanks!

This statement made me think and ask questions. Like what is a soul and do I have one? How would I lose my own soul if I gain the whole world? What does one have to do with the other? I mean it is a nice saying. But, its true meaning is lost because it seems to be out of context. Maybe someone is doing something that is hurting their soul while it provides that person with gain. Does this saying also include those who gain the world but hasn't done things to hurt their soul? Sorry, off topic and this mind tends to drift.

Indo-Europeans we’re very butch and manly , they didn’t wear padding and helmets to throw a little ball around a field.

indo-european is a proto language, not a people. it is not "western." otherwise india would be in the west. even if the article hypothesis is correct, which i kinda doubt, it just means that it came from some people who spoke some derivative of indo eu language. sanskrit is indo european, but doesn't mean buhddism has anything to do with western culture. americans speak english, but does not mean the english invented football ( you know, the real football where people smash into each other, not the wimpy one americans call soccer ... just kidding )

Oh no ... there is a wave of it just starting about to rise in intensity . Several people around me are talking incomprehensible rubbish , more than usual, the last few days ... and now its spreading to all types of normally 'clear' people . Including my gardener this morning ; explained a VERY simple job three times , with him nodding and making comments that seemed to indicate comprehension and then repeating back to me what he should do ..... that wasnt what I explained * ! Oh ... the cause of this 'wave ' ? https://www.livescience.com/space/the-sun/giant-sunspot-on-par-with-the-one-that-birthed-the-carrington-event-has-appeared-on-the-sun-and-its-pointed-right-at-earth It happens every so often *

Working on a post in response to your last question, about "chop wood carry water"--something from that writing: Zen teachers demonstrate the relinquishment of volitive activity in the body in favor of the free location of “one-pointedness of mind”, constantly. Reb Anderson observed such demonstrations in the actions of Shunryu Suzuki: … I remember (Suzuki’s) dharma talks and I remember him in the zendo—that was wonderful teaching. I remember him moving rocks—wonderful teaching. I remember seeing him eat—that was wonderful teaching. He was teaching all the time in every situation. But when he couldn't sit anymore and couldn't walk anymore, he still taught right from there. (Reb Anderson, from a 1995 recording: https://www.cuke.com/people/anderson-reb.htm) In the parlance of Gautama: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN 35.146, tr. Pali Text Society vol IV p 85) As to "one-pointedness of mind": In my experience, “one-pointedness” occurs when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a singular location in the body, and a person “lays hold of one-pointedness” when they remain awake as the singular location shifts. (Just to Si t) “One-pointedness of mind” occurs out of necessity, in the course of an inhalation or exhalation. The subtle necessity of posture or carriage can induce one-pointedness in seated meditation and in daily living, again in the course of an inhalation or exhalation. "Phases" or "levels" in concentration may have to do with the way "one-pointedness of mind" coordinates reflex activity to shift the fascia behind the sacrum and spine rearward to support the nerve exits between vertebrae, and thereby open the body to the placement of "one-pointedness" anywhere in the body. Forsaking "one-pointedness" for the particulars drops the ball, ignoring "one-pointedness" in the apprehension of the particulars also drops the ball. Fortunately we still breathe. Not really levels in the necessity of that, only in opening the body appropriately.

Indo-European: Hi there! Chinese: Yo person with a funny hat, how are you. I.E.: Fine, fine, sorry about that bit of an invasion by the way. Ch.: That's ok, it's happened before, it'll happen again. I.E.: I feel quite assimilated now by the way. Ch.: So...what you been up to? I.E.: Well it's strange, I dropped some sticks on the floor this morning and when I looked at the pattern I saw that my heifer will bring forth a piebald calf in the three months. Ch.: Cool, sounds a bit like the ancient traditions of divination we have going back thousands of years. I.E.: Well that's nice of you but it's just a pile of yarrow stalks at the end of the day. Ch.: Well do you mind if I take your method and turn it into the most sublime and sophisticated system of divination ever created by mankind? I.E.: Not at all, knock yourself out! I'd help out but I have a burial mound to build. Ch.: Cheers then and say hi to the Sky Father for me. I.E.: Right! Catch you later Chinese guy. (sorry sometimes when I've been on DaoBums a while my mind just gets out of control).

No he doesn't become Anubis ... Anubis is the guide - like the master of ceremonies. He becomes the little bird under the bed ... and flies up to the Eastern sky to look at the sunrise. 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.r-qvk6io{line-height:0px;} .r-qvutc0{word-wrap:break-word;} .r-rjixqe{line-height:20px;} .r-rki7wi{bottom:12px;} .r-s67bdx{font-size:48px;} .r-sb58tz{max-width:1000px;} .r-tjvw6i{text-decoration-thickness:1px;} .r-u6sd8q{background-repeat:no-repeat;} .r-u8s1d{position:absolute;} .r-ueyrd6{line-height:36px;} .r-uho16t{font-size:34px;} .r-vkv6oe{min-width:40px;} .r-vlxjld{color:rgba(247,249,249,1.00);} .r-vqxq0j{border:0 solid black;} .r-vrz42v{line-height:28px;} .r-vvn4in{background-position:center;} .r-wy61xf{height:72px;} .r-x3cy2q{background-size:100% 100%;} .r-x572qd{background-color:rgba(247,249,249,1.00);} .r-xigjrr{-webkit-filter:blur(4px);filter:blur(4px);} .r-yc9v9c{width:22px;} .r-yfoy6g{background-color:rgba(21,32,43,1.00);} .r-yn5ncy{animation-fill-mode:both;} .r-yy2aun{font-size:26px;} .r-yyyyoo{fill:currentcolor;} .r-z7pwl0{max-width:700px;} .r-z80fyv{height:20px;} .r-zchlnj{right:0px;} @-webkit-keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @-webkit-keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} @keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} .r-8iu2i{position:absolute;visibility:hidden;top:0;width:50px;pointer-events:none} .r-8iu2i.loaded{visibility:visible;top:50vh;width:50px} “I am Atum in the primeval darkness, dwelling in the Great Mansion.I am the one who existed at the beginning of the gods.I am Shu at the beginning of gods and men.I am Re when he rises in the horizon.I am the one who is in the Duat in the primeval darkness.How beautiful is your rising in the sky! He who came forth as Re, who came into being as Atum.Re came forth from Atum,Atum came forth from Re.There is no god who came into being before him."

This reminds of the "two truths" model of looking at the world. Ultimately, there is no enlightenment/nothing to do. And yet, from a mundane viewpoint, practice is necessary. A shift away from self - reference (kensho) is necessary. Digesting the experience is necessary. In other words, stages. But to think of it terms of stages reifies the self view. So, we just practice and see what happens! The best words I have ever read on the subject can be found here: Bassui's Talk on One Mind. _/|\_ Keith

Ok, I removed what I said since the questions were unanswerable in my case since how I experienced for the first time as a beginner was different than was asked and the criteria for answering was more strict than I understood. Recommend Grandmaster Doo Wai videos practice to get the first experience of qi even though that wasn't how I got it.

Can vouch for this. Have done this a few times in the past few months, the feeling from this is different and very interesting.

@PestiferMundi since no one else is helping out I’ll post about another system I do: -!Answer!- 1.1. Name of the qigong training method that allowed you to feel qi energy for the first time (really important that it's the first time, as doing something comes a lot easier once you've experienced it once, and practicing other things after that first time may have only been effective because of that first time)? Authentic Neigong (feeling qi for the second time) 1.2. If it wasn't exactly qigong (Chinese origin) but of some other origin (e.g. Korean "Sundo" or Japanese "Kiko"), what is it and where does it originate (answer all of the following questions as you would if it was a qigong method)? N/A 1.3. State the source of the qigong training method (book, course, etc. - include the author/creator name) - Not quite sure about the forum rules, but if you aren't allowed to directly link to it because it's seen as "advertising" or something else unacceptable, I'm sure you can at least just state the name of it and the name of the author/creator. https://authenticneigong.com/ 2. What was the qi energy experience and what made it "undeniable" to you that it was qi energy (what distinguishes it from all the other body sensations or energetic experiences you've already had, that made you believe it was qi)? Feels like heat or electricity inside the body 3. What should one avoid doing during practice that may unintentionally get in the way of generating that energetic experience (if the source you stated already goes into detail about this then you can just say to refer to the source material)? Refer to source material 4. Were you using any herbs, drugs, or hallucinogenic substances within a week of that experience, or on the very day of that experience? No 5. How long did you practice before you first had that experience? (e.g. around 1 month)? A few weeks. After around 3 years my wife is able to feel electricity in my lower dantian when she touches it. 6. How often did you practice (e.g. every day or only on weekends), how long was the practice session (e.g. 20 minutes), and how many sessions (e.g. two 20 minute sessions per day or one session)? About 40 mins a day 7.1. Did you practice any martial arts prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? No 7.2. If yes to Question 7.1, is the martial art you practiced directly related to the qigong method (e.g. The Yiquan martial art from my observation basically has a hardwired qigong training method - Zhan Zhuang)? N/A 8. Did you practice any kind of occult/meditative exercises prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? N/A 9. If you are willing, include any other details you think would be relevant to the training and the goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time? I practiced Flying Phoenix for 5 weeks before starting this 10. What are the possible risks of the method if overdone, if not done properly, or even if done properly as the method is "extreme" (assuming the practice bears such risks)? Maybe qi going where it shouldn’t be, or too much qi in a certain area. Start slowly and build up to be safe, follow the timing instructions. 11. Does the method have advanced levels/goals after the first bare minimum goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time and what are they? (e.g. Flying Phoenix Qigong has multiple volume dvds, never tried it but if the volume 1 standing exercises allowed me to feel qi energy, the next obvious step would be to continue training it and then move onto the volume 2 seated meditations, but not all qigong methods have such a clear and outlined path so that's why I'm asking this question)? Level 1 •Activate and establish the dantien •Open and fill channels •Cultivate and store qi Level 2 (after 1 1/2 years) •Links Qi to the hands •Move Qi inside the body •Refine QI Level 3 (after 3 1/2 years) •Refine the Qi •Compress the Qi Level 4 (after 4 1/2 years) •Enlarge the Channels •Refine Qi

Hi mods, I noticed that there are threads in my PPD that seem to have been moved there unintentionally. Not a problem for me but I thought you should know in case someone else is looking for their content. Attached is a screenshot of my current PPD front page. The only threads I created for my PPD are "Yungdrung Bön" and "Music." The others are not mine. Thanks

Magic is a profound, comprehensive, and difficult cultivation art that takes decades to learn in a proper setting, with outstanding talent, legitimate teachers, and solid resource base. It is not suitable for mentally weak beings, and well, dumb people. A fool could potentially lift dumbbells and grow muscle, he could train neigong and develop qi power, but he will never be able to step into magic cultivation. There is a reason why first arcana is "The Fool". Someone who exists in illusions can never evolve. It absolutely cannot be self-taught, self-initiated, learned from public books alone. You need to have a legitimate source of transmission, a living master. By ignoring all these warnings written on the wall, people end up developing deviations, psychological problems, mental instability, dissociation, and all sorts of disturbing personality adjustments. Developing a mental field is a delicate work, with endless caveats, traps and pitfalls. When you practice improperly and stupidly, based on "methods and techniques" found in random books, conduct "summoning rituals" to gain power, you end up developing a mental disorder. In reality, in cultivation circles, there are many safeguards and checks in place. If SoTG would ever be a member of any legitimate school, then every and all of his "claimed" abilities would be tested and verified by peers and masters, and he most likely would get kicked out as a result on the very first or second day.

he did in fact claim to be able to levitate, walk on water, alter his weight at will, kill people with his energy powers, time travel, and bring souls back from the underworld

former student for many years who practiced the full system, it was just techs taken from the daobums classics list so ymaa, damo mitchell, jaj, the bliss of inner fire etc then the magick stuff was just pure new age + some bardon and crowley under a mainstream lhp context anything he tried to make himself outside of that just straight up didnt work i spent many hours finding all of he places he took the techs that worked from please find a reputable teacher, any reputable teacher and stay far away from this mess edit: also he is not dead he posts ai art and ominous messages on his site then deletes them every now and then

The common tactic among Western teachers is to take the simplest practice possible, overcomplicate it with made-up nonsense, create artificial barriers, and then sell it in tiny pieces for as long as they can. If they didn’t do this, they’d run out of material to teach in a week or a month. I’ve seen Damien “Standing Post aka Zhan Zhuang” course. For about 6–8 hours he teaches almost nothing of value with 99% of the information tied to basic physical posture. He has zero knowledge of the energetic aspects of the practice, no understanding of the upper and lower channels, and he clearly has no clue that you need a specific mental state and develop meditation skills to gain any real benefit from the posture itself. It’s basically like a kindergartener stealing a high-school math textbook written in a foreign language, ripping out all the important chapters, and then teaching other kids how to draw carrots and cucumbers so they can count to 10. In Chinese tradition it's very common to just give students the basic stuff like physical postures and hold back the real 99% of valuable info until the person proves they're trustworthy, loyal, hardworking, talented, etc. That's why you get all these "early graduates" who basically got kicked out by Teacher. The simplest way to ditch someone annoying is to pump up their ego: "You've learned everything, you're a master now, go spread the word!"

Abraham was from Sumer. The Jewish Book of Genesis contains a cut down version of the Sumerian account. In the Sumerian account you can read why god refers to itself as "we" The earliest known manuscript version of the OT is newer than the oldest manuscript version of the NT. In the Middle Ages there was a major industry in discovering ancient writings, translating them, and losing the original. Fortunately the Renaissance Man/Woman was of such a spiritual caliber that the inventions were often worthy of the alleged author Read Anatoly Fomenko for a statistical analysis showing which histories are invented from which realities. https://www.amazon.com.au/stores/author/B0032J096G Free versions: https://archive.org/search?query=anatoly+fomenko&and[]=mediatype%3A"texts" > who are the children of man and the children of god? In the Sumerian account, the aliens bred the human slaves from their own genetics crossed with a hominoid already on the planet. The humans turned out to be noisy and hard to manage, so the Sumerian aliens bred an upgraded human with more alien genetics to control the slaves. The upgraded humans are traditionally known as royalty - directly descended from the gods. There has been much interbreeding since then, so royal blood may not mean much now. Details of the genetic failures can be found in the Sumerian accounts. The hard work shows in the Jewish Genesis where every time the god makes something, he looks at it and sees that/if it is good Perhaps 12 other alien groups have had a go at breeding humans more suited to their agendas. WW2 was the latest macro attempt. These days the processes are nano-scale

using google-translate on alchemy texts may be the shabby way out, but since translator charles luk omitted a part of the original text in his translation i put the chinese original of "zhao bichen: on the double cultivation of nature and life" in google translate and here it is >> https://docdro.id/CXJ65i8 << pdf version ebook reader formatting >> https://docdro.id/EMF1p1M << .txt format zhao engl.txt zhao bichen chinese.pdf