Shad282

what is the point of existence?

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what is the reason we exist in life ? if spirit exists.. then why would a spirit put itself in a box, limited reality to experience it and try to realize itself ? is it game ? if it is for fun or game... boredom doesn't exist.

 

If other realms/dimensions exists... then why do they? what the whole point of all of this? what the point of tao? ... to learn? learn what ? and what would this knowledge really help us ? and if reincarnation exists... why everytime u have to learn the same stuff ? or even... why do we have to learn stuff that as a spirit we are whole, why to box ourselves and try to rediscover ourselves ?

 

If you have an answer, how much are sure of it? 

Edited by Shad282
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Well for me, the reason I have not suicided long ago, is due to connections.  For me, long ago, I realized that of all the philosophy I have studied and the many arduous and painstaking reflections of philosophical concepts all boiled down to one basic philosophical question that is real... all the others to me are frosting and word salad.   Should I suicide or not?  Why foster this manifestation?  It was a marvel to me when I heard Alan Watts agreeing with me, from a few decades earlier and how I wish I had come across him a few decades earlier... but then, perhaps the words would have bounced off and not taken root. 

anywho...

The point of my existence is connection.

 

Where I have made authentic, meaningful connections in life, my life has blossomed and I have thrived... My sense of self extends far beyond my mind and my body and my joy and love of life increase exponentially within the framework of the web of authentic connections.

 

Where I have withdrawn, isolated and rejected, I have experienced the shriveling and rigidity of the way of death... and nearly checked out completely.  Don't jump to the assumption here that I find anything wrong at all, in any way, with suicide.  I don't.  Body death is absolutely nothing to fear in my experience.

 

While it is the natural function of the bellows of life to expand and contract.  I find that our modern Western cultures heavily promote, isolationist protectionism, which is at the root of the thalmus and heart disease epidemics so often experienced.  When harmed, it is natural to withdraw and heal in the cocoon of isolation, but when one fails, or is coerced to refuse to open back up and expand into the web again, then the shift from healing to dis-ease is initiated and once begun, the inertia can dominate one's mind for decades.

 

I watched this process in my Mother.  It ate her mind completely until all that was left was a body, with no connection to anyone save my sister and even this, was met with mistrust and almost constant fear.

 

Open up.  Release.  Let go and simply be.

 

When I am open and abiding in authentic presence, there is a natural magnetic pull to animals and people particularly, but even more subtly, to the essence of places and things.  This pull operates much like falling in love, it is an atmosphere of acceptance that puts folks at ease and when they are comfortable, they open up... when we open up, we connect.

 

Intimacy.... non sexual intimacy is at the core of it to me.  Where I have opened up and allowed intimacy, I have fostered meaningful, deep connection and these moments are the ones that stick out in memory and are one of the sources of healing when life is hardest.  We don't remember days, we remember moments.  We remember moments of deep authentic presence and connection.

 

The purpose of my life is to foster in my presence the abiding support for these connections, be it in a momentary conversation in an elevator with someone whose name I will never know, in my long term relationships with people and animals and with the vibrant living environment of the co-creational conditions of the planet my body and mind call home.

 

Open up.  Let go.  Fuck fear.

 

edit to add:  the most valuable thing I can ever offer another, is my complete presence and full attention.  My son taught me this.  So grateful for that connection.

Edited by silent thunder
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Well for me, the reason I have not suicided long ago, is due to connections.

Where I have made authentic, meaningful connections in life, my life has blossomed and I have thrived... My sense of self extends far beyond my mind and my body and my joy and love of life increase exponentially within the framework of the web of authentic connections.

 

Where I have withdrawn, isolated and rejected, I have experienced the shriveling and rigidity of the way of death... and nearly checked out completely.

 

While it is the natural function of the bellows of life to expand and contract.  I find that our modern Western cultures heavily promote, isolationist protectionism, which is at the root of the thalmus and heart disease epidemics so often experienced.  When harmed, it is natural to withdraw and heal in the cocoon of isolation, but when one fails, or is coerced to refuse to open back up and expand into the web again, then the shift from healing to dis-ease is initiated and once begun, the inertia can dominate one's mind for decades.

 

I watched this process in my Mother.  It ate her mind completely until all that was left was a body, with no connection to anyone save my sister and even this, was met with mistrust and almost constant fear.

 

Open up.  Release.  Let go and simply be.

 

When I am open and abiding in authentic presence, there is a natural magnetic pull to animals and people particularly, but even more subtly, to the essence of places and things.  This pull operates much like falling in love, it is an atmosphere of acceptance that puts folks at ease and when they are comfortable, they open up... when we open up, we connect.

 

Intimacy.... non sexual intimacy is at the core of it to me.  Where I have opened up and allowed intimacy, I have fostered meaningful, deep connection and these moments are the ones that stick out in memory and are one of the sources of healing when life is hardest.  We don't remember days, we remember moments.  We remember moments of deep authentic presence and connection.

 

The purpose of my life is to foster in my presence the abiding support for these connections, be it in a momentary conversation in an elevator with someone whose name I will never know, in my long term relationships with people and animals and with the vibrant living environment of the co-creational conditions of the planet my body and mind call home.

 

Open up.  Let go.  Fuck fear.

 

edit to add:  the most valuable thing I can ever offer another, is my complete presence and full attention.  My son taught me this.  So grateful for that connection.

 

thank you for your words :) ... but actually that is not directly related to my questions...it is not about fear or anything related to let go ....if to customize my question to what u said.. it is what the point or usefulness of building relationship with people or animals, or having "presence" ?

I know these stuff are nice and whatever and have positive things.. but why do we exist in the first place and what is the point of all of this ?

 are we here, to just heal? love? and be happy? but we already have them, and we think we don't ... so what is really the point of all of this ?

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thank you for your words :) ... but actually that is not directly related to my questions...it is not about fear or anything related to let go ....if to customize my question to what u said.. it is what the point or usefulness of building relationship with people or animals, or having "presence" ?

I know these stuff are nice and whatever and have positive things.. but why do we exist in the first place and what is the point of all of this ?

 are we here, to just heal? love? and be happy? but we already have them, and we think we don't ... so what is really the point of all of this ?

I don't think there can ever be one answer that is 'the truth'.

My answer is 'my truth', or 'a truth' and my discovery of it it is vajra in my life. 

A flash of insight as potent and vibrant as a lightning bolt revealing a truth that is as hard as diamond. 

Unshakable and unbreakable.

Peace.

 

edit to add:  and it's definitely not about only focusing on the positive, or the happy.  It's about radically accepting where and what I and others are... radical release, openness.  In this release there is, for me, fostered an atmosphere where connections and authentic intimacy happen naturally, effortlessly and these connections in turn, foster their own inertia.  I still have dropped into some very dark holes, but I now am surrounded by connection, not intellectual, superficial ideas, but raw, potent and relentless reminders of the power and joy of my life in this place and this has acted like a counter-gravitational pull that draws me back into the expansion of life and further connection, so the bouts of darkness do not last long at all.  Both cycles can be self feeding.

Edited by silent thunder
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There really are no answers to those questions.  Shit happens and here we are.  Blame it on the single-celled organisms.

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If you take a load of randomly generated computer code, shake it up and then run what comes out enough times, eventually you'll get some code that can copy and replicate itself.

 

It this code now alive? Was there any divine purpose behind this self replicating code? What happens when the original version is finally deleted? And then all the subsequent copies?

 

Our brains have evolved to a state where they can ask some pretty deep questions.

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Okay, so to be less metaphorical...

 

The level of reality from which we purportedly ask these questions actually eliminates the need for such questions. If you are intellectualizing the Non-dual consciousness and asking the question "why does the dualistic world exist", you are still in the dualistic world.

 

In the non-dualistic view, there is no "other", so there is no need for these questions...

There is ultimately no "realization". To hold the view that we have something to realize is in itself a fallacy. We are already that which is ultimate and non-dual. We just have to let go of the things that make us forget this...

 

What are those things that make us forget the fact that we are already that One Self?

 

  • The Mind and it's modifications. Stop the mind and we are the One Self. When the mind resumes, we forget that we the One Self. In our meditations, we will often enter "states" where the mind is still and the One Self is all there is. Then the Mind starts moving, and slowly and steadily we lose sight of the One Self. It gets obscured by the countless objects that manifest in the Mind as thoughts.
  • There are two ways to make this permanent. One is to completely surrender to a Deity or God and truly give up all our joy and worries, thoughts, likes or dislikes to God. The other is to destroy the mind. Destroy the mind and then all that remains is the One Self/True Self.¬†
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what is the reason we exist in life ?

 

 

Some people do not comprehend this question at all . The cant even think why one ask that question, and also have asked me   How can a people  ( society , culture , paradigm, etc )  not know why they are here and what they exist for ?  They must have totally lost ant relevant  culture,  or it has become really damaged and  their connection to environment , their rites of passage and initiations into individuation and adulthood. "

 

 

if spirit exists.. then why would a spirit put itself in a box, limited reality to experience it and try to realize itself ?

 

How can 'pure spirit'  express itself in the 'world of form'  .... without form .   or  .... how could ' The World '  not contain spirit ?

 

is it game ? if it is for fun or game... boredom doesn't exist.

 

Its an experience , sometimes it seems like a game, depending on how you look at it .... like work, you can take it serious or like a game, depends on how much fun you want to have and how happy you want to be . 

 

Gratitude and appreciation go  long way towards helping one find those things ... even just 'gratitude for 'your' existence . 

 

If other realms/dimensions exists... then why do they?

 

Why should not they ?  It is a  strange new sickness in man's consciousness that thinks there is one answer, one dimension, one point of reference, one 'reality' .  You no doubt realize we live in many dimensions' , the 'hard three' ... then there is time , which can vary in our perception of it, and a whole range of 'ideal realities' . 

 

what the whole point of all of this? what the point of tao?

 

aside from the answer that 'it just is'  , again, there is no one answer ..... but there is a multitude of answers , other wise life would be pretty boring, with just one purpose. But most of these answers are 'poetic' .

 

 

 

... to learn? learn what ?

 

To learn why you are here and what you are supposed to be doing , thats a start. Then learn the best way for you to do it; to express yourself to your fullest potential.

 

 

 

and what would this knowledge really help us ?

 

Its supposed to help everyone, thats the key of initiation  to realize the 'trade off' between your ego and superego; one's individuation is appreciated and needed by one's society (in a  healthy society)  and in return, one gets back benefits for not letting one's 'Id' run amok . 

 

 

and if reincarnation exists... why everytime u have to learn the same stuff ?

 

Ummmm .....     :wacko:     ' we '    do  ? ? ? 

 

 

or even... why do we have to learn stuff that as a spirit we are whole, why to box ourselves and try to rediscover ourselves ?

 

That is assuming spirit was 'whole' in the first place  .  But not if Spirit is a potential that develops and manifests in interaction with the socio-cultural / natural environment .   I dont see it as 'box' at all . 

 

Is little Johny 'boxed in' when he grows and develops to adulthood ? 

 

 

If you have an answer, how much are sure of it? 

 

If you mean how many in a culture like that are sure of it ?   Most of them. 

 

if you mean , how sure of these things am I ?   As sure as I need to be . I have seen the proof in healthy culture and in my own life.  No suicide thoughts there !

 

As soon as the culture declines though .....  suicide can manifest, as the things I spoke of above become lost . There is actually a clear progression, evident in all cultures through time - it isnt just an observation of some peoples, it is as though there are certain types of 'evolutionary cultural dynamics or laws' at work . 

 

The suicide bit fits in between these stages ;   self harm and  self mutilation  * .....     suicide ....... end of the culture. 

 

* this happens after the sacred icons, sites, and/or public community facilities have been vandalized or destroyed .. or, to put it in  silly (official)  anthropological terms ,   first , the externals of the culture are disassembled, then the individual units of the culture ( ie. the people ) are 'disassembled' .  (In some case , the 'disassembling' has been literal  - the 'self mutilation' aspect, and also following an order : on the limbs , connection to the outside world , the ears, tongue, or  nose, the sensory apparatus, and pen-ultimately ,  the genitals , even the genetic line is destroyed by destroying the possibility of pro creation.

 

There is this thing in magic and 'philosophy; called 'The White School'   , its motto is  'existence is pure joy' .  It  might be something worth looking into ? 

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Okay, so to be less metaphorical...

 

The level of reality from which we purportedly ask these questions actually eliminates the need for such questions. If you are intellectualizing the Non-dual consciousness and asking the question "why does the dualistic world exist", you are still in the dualistic world.

 

In the non-dualistic view, there is no "other", so there is no need for these questions...

There is ultimately no "realization". To hold the view that we have something to realize is in itself a fallacy. We are already that which is ultimate and non-dual. We just have to let go of the things that make us forget this...

 

What are those things that make us forget the fact that we are already that One Self?

 

  • The Mind and it's modifications. Stop the mind and we are the One Self. When the mind resumes, we forget that we the One Self. In our meditations, we will often enter "states" where the mind is still and the One Self is all there is. Then the Mind starts moving, and slowly and steadily we lose sight of the One Self. It gets obscured by the countless objects that manifest in the Mind as thoughts.
  • There are two ways to make this permanent. One is to completely surrender to a Deity or God and truly give up all our joy and worries, thoughts, likes or dislikes to God. The other is to destroy the mind. Destroy the mind and then all that remains is the One Self/True Self.¬†

 

 

? 

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the "why" can not be put into a box either...

 

lots of aspects can be talked about (and also gained and lost) but will not quite satisfy beyond all doubt

 

faith is a factor in going beyond all doubt to indestructible unity, unity that IS satisfied and which supports its children of diversity

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What is the point of knowing there are other dimensions if you don't do anything to experience them first hand. Whats the point of asking questions that don't provide answers right away. Whats the point of asking if you are not completely aware at which source your question is directed at. Some questions might sound good but if they aren't directed properly wont yield any answers but will instead cultivate more confusion while answers are what we seek. Its like wanting to get to the water stream at the top of the mountain to drink water but unable to because you carry a heavy big pile of bricks on your back meant for building a house around the stream. I want to add that all the questions you asked are very good but you seem to seek answers as physicist do. With sorcerers answers come directly from the universe trough our being.

 

The point of existence is enough by itself and it is to make everyone enjoy life to the fullest because creation is full of beauty BUT then why everyone dies? How can you know incarnation exists if you aren't aware what death is. Whoever knows what death is can start to defy it and this is what immortals were seeking in the first place, to still enjoy life after death with their awareness intact or expanded. Dying means you loose what you gained and you are back at the beginning. Looking at this the mystery of being alive is to hone your awareness so that you can transcend life/death and truly know what are you capable of perceiving.

 

Still someone thinks the point of existence is to become a god while some settle with just being happy :)

Edited by Baloony
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what is the reason we exist in life ? if spirit exists.. then why would a spirit put itself in a box, limited reality to experience it and try to realize itself ? is it game ? if it is for fun or game... boredom doesn't exist.

 

If other realms/dimensions exists... then why do they? what the whole point of all of this? what the point of tao? ... to learn? learn what ? and what would this knowledge really help us ? and if reincarnation exists... why everytime u have to learn the same stuff ? or even... why do we have to learn stuff that as a spirit we are whole, why to box ourselves and try to rediscover ourselves ?

 

If you have an answer, how much are sure of it? 

 

I'm not sure of anything 

 

but as to the question, why would spirit put itself in a box?

 

well, there are so many things that can be experienced when living in a physical body.

 

even the 'ordinary' senses give a rich experience. think of being on the beach, you're feet aware of the warm sand, the whole skin connecting with sun and wind, your ears filled with the noise of waves and your nose filled with the salty tang of sea, the eyes enjoying the whole picture of sand and waves and the horizon and the shells and...and... and... :D .

 

those are things ( I suppose) a spirit cannot experience 

 

think of the ghosts of Hogwarts, yearning for the simple pleasure of eating  ;)

 

another sort of experience, maybe that's a step further, the emotional connection we can have with other living bodies, whether human, animal or plant. I think these are denied to those who are pure spirit.

 

Of course pain and unpleasure are part of the package, and the balancing act between those, is that we have to learn to handle.

 

just some thoughts

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To find happiness.

you are here on this earth just to be happy ? and more.. to find it ? it is not a thing to find it somewhere in some place.. it is all inside.

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what is the reason we exist in life ? [...]

 

Apparently, we exist to turn food into shit.

 

Still, it's crazy that we accept and enjoy all of our biological processes with the exception of natural death (old age being a symptom of it).

Chances are that we're not supposed to avoid "fight for life" as much as we do, and we should eventually die in some battle, deliberately accepting the risk of dying... or -if you're religious- you may think that some malevolent God in the garden of Eden deprived mankind of immortality without granting the boon of removing the kind of mind that considers itself immortal.

 

Out of this mess, mankind evolved all sort of bizarre beliefs about the afterlife, about spirits and so forth.

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you are here on this earth just to be happy ? and more.. to find it ? it is not a thing to find it somewhere in some place.. it is all inside.

I am here, my life was given, but my survival isn't.

 

Silent Thunder understood this when he said we must choose 'to live, or to suicide'. We have volitional consciousnesses. Our bodies experience pleasure or pain, our cognition experiences happiness or suffering. Our purpose is to survive if we choose, our goal is to be happy. Obviously we cannot have one without the other; our highest purpose is therefore our own happiness.

 

A Mans life is an end in itself it needs no other reason.

 

To ask 'why we are here' in order to try and glean another purpose beyond happiness is to add a complexity which still does not change the essentials.

 

To say 'happiness' is inside, as some form of organ is to completely misunderstand yourself. That you are here, that you must choose what to do and how to achieve it for the ultimate aim of achieving happiness by that achievement. You must grasp why suffering is different to physical pain and happiness distinct from physical pleasure. A man may suffer yet live like a king, or he may be deliriously happy right at the point of death. Why does a thief not derive the happiness of a productive man; why does a prostitute not provide the happiness of a valued partner. Why does lying and cheating produce suffering yet may also provide pleasure ? Why is it that failure may produce pain but can reward with happiness ?

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while I like your answer... I think it would be more in line with your usual posting if you worded it thus:

to produce happiness ;)

You can't 'produce happiness' but you can produce things of a value to the self which cause happiness.

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Apparently, we exist to turn food into shit.

 

And to make that statement a little more acceptable, the process is part of the food chain of all life on the planet.

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You can't 'produce happiness' but you can produce things of a value to the self which cause happiness.

ok there we go... phew...

thought we'd lost you for a second there.

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Well for me, the reason I have not suicided long ago, is due to connections.  For me, long ago, I realized that of all the philosophy I have studied and the many arduous and painstaking reflections of philosophical concepts all boiled down to one basic philosophical question that is real... all the others to me are frosting and word salad.   Should I suicide or not?  Why foster this manifestation?  It was a marvel to me when I heard Alan Watts agreeing with me, from a few decades earlier and how I wish I had come across him a few decades earlier... but then, perhaps the words would have bounced off and not taken root. 

anywho...

The point of my existence is connection.

 

Where I have made authentic, meaningful connections in life, my life has blossomed and I have thrived... My sense of self extends far beyond my mind and my body and my joy and love of life increase exponentially within the framework of the web of authentic connections.

 

Where I have withdrawn, isolated and rejected, I have experienced the shriveling and rigidity of the way of death... and nearly checked out completely.  Don't jump to the assumption here that I find anything wrong at all, in any way, with suicide.  I don't.  Body death is absolutely nothing to fear in my experience.

 

While it is the natural function of the bellows of life to expand and contract.  I find that our modern Western cultures heavily promote, isolationist protectionism, which is at the root of the thalmus and heart disease epidemics so often experienced.  When harmed, it is natural to withdraw and heal in the cocoon of isolation, but when one fails, or is coerced to refuse to open back up and expand into the web again, then the shift from healing to dis-ease is initiated and once begun, the inertia can dominate one's mind for decades.

 

I watched this process in my Mother.  It ate her mind completely until all that was left was a body, with no connection to anyone save my sister and even this, was met with mistrust and almost constant fear.

 

Open up.  Release.  Let go and simply be.

 

When I am open and abiding in authentic presence, there is a natural magnetic pull to animals and people particularly, but even more subtly, to the essence of places and things.  This pull operates much like falling in love, it is an atmosphere of acceptance that puts folks at ease and when they are comfortable, they open up... when we open up, we connect.

 

Intimacy.... non sexual intimacy is at the core of it to me.  Where I have opened up and allowed intimacy, I have fostered meaningful, deep connection and these moments are the ones that stick out in memory and are one of the sources of healing when life is hardest.  We don't remember days, we remember moments.  We remember moments of deep authentic presence and connection.

 

The purpose of my life is to foster in my presence the abiding support for these connections, be it in a momentary conversation in an elevator with someone whose name I will never know, in my long term relationships with people and animals and with the vibrant living environment of the co-creational conditions of the planet my body and mind call home.

 

Open up.  Let go.  Fuck fear.

 

edit to add:  the most valuable thing I can ever offer another, is my complete presence and full attention.  My son taught me this.  So grateful for that connection.

 

Thank you so much for this Silent Thunder. ¬†Your words came to me when I needed to hear them. ¬†I¬īm dealing with a challenging interpersonal situation right now, and your post has helped me return to a place of greater openness and acceptance. ¬†The way I figure, I might as well give love a try. ¬†It¬īs not like insisting things happen the way I want has been working anyways. ¬†

 

Liminal

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