3bob

Excellent witness...

back to the OP, the factors mentioned can lead to crippling depression for many of us that are not easy to overcome, then pour dangerous mind altering drugs, alcohol abuse and other robbers of the vital forces into the psychological mix and it be a very long and hard crawl back to a healthy life.

Right, just checking to see if we are on the same page with meaning about some of these terms. (being that you did not make the distinction above a few posts earlier) btw, even saying "without qualities" has some pitfalls to it imo...along with "beyond categories", thus I happen to find the Taoist saying of "Mystery of mysteries" to also be very useful.

sounds informative...thanks. Btw, the Chandogya Upanishad states that Prana (first and all prana or light) "springs" from the Self thus it does not directly equate Self with light. (and neither is that which is "beyond categories" (aka the Self) equated with light per many schools.

right the Self knows the Self...btw your most recent post is contradicting your earlier sentence regarding "experience" although I think I get your drift. (are posts numbered somewhere like they once were?)

which also brings up the unanswerable question of why, and can we be so sure how the silent witness sees things? (as defined by mind)

with "God" nothing is impossible...so never believe or think there is not help for whatever the issue may be no matter how difficult.

depends on what one means by spirit realm, for instance the realm of the sun and any spirits there is extremely yang....for instance of white light type fire and brilliant blazing gold...

one for MH... “Means and Ends The purpose of a fish trap Is to catch fish,And when the fish are caughtThe trap is forgotten.The purpose of a rabbit snareIs to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caughtThe snare is forgotten.The purpose of wordsIs to convey ideas.When the ideas are graspedThe words are forgotten.Where can I find a manWho has forgotten words?He is the one I would like to talk to.” ― Thomas Merton, The Way of Chuang Tzu

yes Jeff you are confused....

Cool late night ramblings.... I see the summation in your first sentence differently. To me the Self already is and needs no becoming per-se... thus becoming as you've brought up is to me really a manifesting of Self through the evolution of a matrix for such to happen. (as far as that is possible for certain and various matrices which are not the Self Itself but more like vehicles that drive or are driven)

Very interesting Dawei, thanks for the research...I've read something like those principals being implied by another school but that was many years ago and it escapes right now.

so a Jeff can make assumptions and or put words in my mouth?

in Hinduism man as Satguru could be said to be great, thus not just as a movie of the mind playing out like many other movies do, (so to speak). Btw, you used a different translation of chapter 25 than I did, also The 'Eternal Tao" is not really nameable nor can its power really be delineated by or limited to human beings, earth spirits, or heavenly spirits as related to the part of the saying that you pointed out. Anyway, the three lines I highlighted earlier do have correlations just as many other lines do...but I'm not going to go there much more in this string.

I'd say non-existence and existence have complications like those of life and death (which we often assign)...a complication that the Eternal Tao does not have. Btw, lets not forget the quote below: (hehehe) "There was a beginning. There was a beginning before that beginning. There was a beginning previous to that beginning before there was the beginning. There was existence; there had been no existence. There was no existence before the beginning of that no existence. There was no existence previous to the no existence before there was the beginning of the no existence. If suddenly there was nonexistence, we do not know whether it was really anything existing, or really not existing. Now I have said what I have said, but I do not know whether what I have said be really anything to the point or not."