what is the point of existence?

[dwai]

while I like your answer... I think it would be more in line with your usual posting if you worded it thus:

to produce happiness

 

Happiness is the absence of striving for happiness

[Karl]

Happiness is the absence of striving for happiness

Well we can't really strive for happiness; happiness is a result of gaining/holding a specific value through a specific set of principles. A striving for happiness is essential plain hedonism. Happiness is a secondary value which, in effect, we already have access to, it is a by-product.

 

People say 'just be happy'-implying there isn't a need for any metaphysical value, but of course that's ridiculous, we need air, water, food and shelter as bare minimums. Yet to be starving as a result of being unable to obtain food, or thirsty through lack of water is not to be happy. To not crave these things is to accept death, if death is the aim then of course one can be happy with that, but then death is not generally an event which is the result of some form of unhappiness with life by the time we welcome it.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Karl

[dust]

What I was going to say has been said in pieces. I will link them together just for fun.

 

 

There really are no answers to those questions. Shit happens and here we are.  Blame it on the single-celled organisms.

 

-- the ones that began our whole existence, starting with the genome. Each genome that governs our behaviour is like a piece of computer code.

 

If you take a load of randomly generated computer code, shake it up and then run what comes out enough times, eventually you'll get some code that can copy and replicate itself.

 

It this code now alive? Was there any divine purpose behind this self replicating code? What happens when the original version is finally deleted? And then all the subsequent copies?

 

Our brains have evolved to a state where they can ask some pretty deep questions.

 

And with such curious and powerful brains,

 

We each have the opportunity to make our own point.

 

But sometimes there need not even be a point.  We do it because we can.

[dwai]

Well we can't really strive for happiness; happiness is a result of gaining/holding a specific value through a specific set of principles. A striving for happiness is essential plain hedonism. Happiness is a secondary value which, in effect, we already have access to, it is a by-product.

 

People say 'just be happy'-implying there isn't a need for any metaphysical value, but of course that's ridiculous, we need air, water, food and shelter as bare minimums. Yet to be starving as a result of being unable to obtain food, or thirsty through lack of water is not to be happy. To not crave these things is to accept death, if death is the aim then of course one can be happy with that, but then death is not generally an event which is the result of some form of unhappiness with life by the time we welcome it.

 

sure...whatever sails your boat. 

[9th]

[EmeraldHead]

Existence = Fire element = purpose, growth (to maturise), supporting its macrocosm where microcosm is fire and earth element is macrocosm

[Nungali]

 

 

 

Happiness is the absence of striving for happiness

 

happiness is not owning one single tie    

 

[3bob]

see Bill Murray in, "Ground hog day" for some ideas.

[Albion]

We are very much like otters. Our purpose is Happiness.

 

I'm sorry if that's too 'NEW AGE' for you, but I honestly believe that.

 

I hope that it's true for YOU too!   Peace, D.A.D.

Edited September 21, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist

[silent thunder]

Thank you so much for this Silent Thunder.  Your words came to me when I needed to hear them.  I´m dealing with a challenging interpersonal situation right now, and your post has helped me return to a place of greater openness and acceptance.  The way I figure, I might as well give love a try.  It´s not like insisting things happen the way I want has been working anyways.  

 

Liminal

Much Love Mate.  That makes my heart smile.

[dust]

If the point of existence is happiness, or purpose, there are some guys in Iraq and Syria right now really living life to the fullest. They revel in death and destruction, they relish the subjugation of others including the enslavement and rape of women; their goal is to turn the world into their personal Allah-endorsed death party before the coming apocalypse.

 

If this (a group of humans seeking and apparently finding happiness and purpose) doesn't appeal to us as a satisfactory 'point of existence', it might be good to qualify what we mean by 'happiness' or 'purpose' -- "the point is to be happy, but not at the expense of others", for example -- but then we end up leading ourselves down a rabbit hole of ifs and buts and failing to establish a single 'point of existence'.

 

The answer is simple, though most will never admit it: The question is meaningless. There is no point. Whether you like it or not, all we are is randomly generated code. We have no designated purpose. We exist because we're good at existing, because our genetic code has made humans (and our fellow life-forms on Earth) very good at reproducing and surviving, which essentially means eating and breathing and having sex.

 

I think it is very important to realize this before continuing. I think it's important to realize that your existence is entirely in your hands. If we assume free will is real (another debate) we acknowledge that we all decide for ourselves, and control our future as much as it is in our power to do so.

 

And then we likely realize that there's no point in Allah, or God, or murder or rape. We figure out our desires and ideals based on logic and experience, and this tends to lead us to simply live a healthy, peaceful, mostly productive/creative/nondestructive, mostly happy life. But only because it seems like a good idea, not because it's the 'point of existence'.

[Wayfarer]

To Shad282,

 

The answer to your original question is that there is no purpose to anything, there is no reason for the existence of the Tao.  In the same way, we might ask, what is the purpose of a dandelion, or the purpose of rain...these things just are.  It is the way that you are looking at life (in I'm afraid, a deluded way...as is much of mankind) that brings about this question.

 

There is this thing that we are calling the Tao.  It is the only thing that exists.  It is Existence.  There is nothing else.  It cannot move anywhere for there is nothing beyond it to move into, and this is one of the reasons that we notice it through stillness.  

 

What we see as different things is the vibrant energy of the Tao manifesting in this way.  The dandelion is the Tao appearing as a flower and rain is the Tao expressed as rain.   It is all Tao.  You who are asking the question and the people you are asking it too are the same Tao.  There is no difference.  It may seem that there is lots of change going on but that is because we are caught up in that difference and then we ask why is 'this' happening, and what is the reason for 'that'.

 

There is no this or that.

 

It is One thing flowering, unfolding as it is.  It does not choose to do so in a particular way, it just does.  So nothing is 'raining' rain.  Nothing is 'flowering' the dandelion.  The same nothing is replying to you now.

 

Being that there is only One Thing...what can it want?  What reason can it have for being? 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Heath

[Seth Ananda]

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

[Karl]

If the point of existence is happiness, or purpose, there are some guys in Iraq and Syria right now really living life to the fullest. They revel in death and destruction, they relish the subjugation of others including the enslavement and rape of women; their goal is to turn the world into their personal Allah-endorsed death party before the coming apocalypse.

 

If this (a group of humans seeking and apparently finding happiness and purpose) doesn't appeal to us as a satisfactory 'point of existence', it might be good to qualify what we mean by 'happiness' or 'purpose' -- "the point is to be happy, but not at the expense of others", for example -- but then we end up leading ourselves down a rabbit hole of ifs and buts and failing to establish a single 'point of existence'.

 

The answer is simple, though most will never admit it: The question is meaningless. There is no point. Whether you like it or not, all we are is randomly generated code. We have no designated purpose. We exist because we're good at existing, because our genetic code has made humans (and our fellow life-forms on Earth) very good at reproducing and surviving, which essentially means eating and breathing and having sex.

 

I think it is very important to realize this before continuing. I think it's important to realize that your existence is entirely in your hands. If we assume free will is real (another debate) we acknowledge that we all decide for ourselves, and control our future as much as it is in our power to do so.

 

And then we likely realize that there's no point in Allah, or God, or murder or rape. We figure out our desires and ideals based on logic and experience, and this tends to lead us to simply live a healthy, peaceful, mostly productive/creative/nondestructive, mostly happy life. But only because it seems like a good idea, not because it's the 'point of existence'.

. Happiness, not at the expense of others. Quite correct. This is why we must live as rational selfish. Neither our brothers keeper, nor they ours-in other words happiness not at the expense of others/ life not at the expense of others/ freedom not at the expense of others/ production not at the expense of others, property not at the expense of others.

 

People killing and dying in the name of Allah or any other Gods/state/common cause are all irrational Mystics that have no concept of rights and should be burned to ash.

 

Happiness is the purpose, it is obviously 'a good idea' and everybody understands it whether they live alone on a desert island or a mega city. To obtain our values necessary for our existence by a moral code leads us to happiness. No need to make it over complex, we all relate to it and we all pursue it without anyone needing to explain what it is.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Karl

[子泰]

don't know about you guys, but i'm not hitting the bucket until i get to ride on a big bunny

Edited September 21, 2016 by 子泰

[Nungali]

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

 

Oh ?    I hear today is your birthday as well ;

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

.

......

People killing and dying in the name of Allah or any other Gods/state/common cause are all irrational Mystics that have no concept of rights and

 

should be burned to ash.  ....

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

don't know about you guys, but i'm not hitting the bucket until i get to ride on a big bunny

 

 

Go for it ... you only live once    despite what the reincarnation thread says !

 

 

[Seth Ananda]

People killing and dying in the name of Allah or any other Gods/state/common cause are all irrational Mystics that have no concept of rights and should be burned to ash.

People burning others to ash in the name of rationality are just as out of touch with rationality as the so called mystics who kill are out of touch with the Inner states that give piece. 

[Gerard]

what is the reason we exist in life ?

 

No reason at all. To be part of a huge and eternal flow. Reality is always there, eternal and self-contained. Infinite Dao.

 

Enjoy (and suffer!) the ride.

 

[3bob]

The T.T.C. mentions being a good steward for the world at the end of chap 13... thus why in the hell are some readers and students of the T.T.C. and wandering around quasi-nihilistic like? 

[Karl]

People burning others to ash in the name of rationality are just as out of touch with rationality as the so called mystics who kill are out of touch with the Inner states that give piece.

 

We have a right to 'defend' our rights. Just as I have a right to stop someone murdering or robbing me. Irrational Mystics hell bent on Jihadism and murder on the order of Allah are not rational people. Peace is not a right. Peace is a result of the protection of rights, the protection of which may well require violence.

[Marblehead]

The T.T.C. mentions being a good steward for the world at the end of chap 13... thus why in the hell are some readers and students of the T.T.C. and wandering around quasi-nihilistic like? 

Because they are reading too much nihilistic stuff?

[3bob]

Karl, Your use of the term "mystics" is way off to the point of you being an 'fanatic' about it - with fanatic being a more correct term or generalization along such lines.  Btw, if you have problems with Mystery and or mystics then why in the hell do you continue  insulting the idea of mysticism in a spiritually/mystically biased forum?   (after you have stated your pov so many times here)

[Karl]

Karl, Your use of the term "mystics" is way off to the point of you being an 'fanatic' about it - with fanatic being a more correct term or generalization along such lines.  Btw, if you have problems with Mystery and or mystics then why in the hell do you continue  insulting the idea of mysticism in a spiritually/mystically biased forum?   (after you have stated your pov so many times here)

Yes, I'm a fanatic about it. Spirituality isn't mystic. You are ascribing a supernatural nature to something that is entirely natural. It's the same as reverence for the heart as providing wisdom, when it is the mind and the mind only. Put things in their rightful place and see that mysticism is ignorance, or evasion and that the spiritual is an existent identity which doesn't require supernatural illusion and is harmed by that kind of thinking.