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Probably, but it may be hard to find. Even neigong the real deal is something that is mostly taught in private, one on one, for all kinds of reasons. E.g. "pearls before the swine" is avoided, "teacher tell all, go hungry" is another consideration, persecution of taoists that repeated many times throughout history (communists didn't invent it, emperors did long before them) and what not. The culture has always been big on "family secrets," "secret skills," "secret manuals," "secret formulas,' "secret transmissions" and so on, from neidan to porcelain to herbal formulas to martial styles, it was more common than not to not tell everything, and often tell nothing outside the family or school. This is not just history, this is also true in our time. Even though a lot of Chinese movies and Jin Yong's novels are centered around the pursuit of such secrets , all of it has a real-life cultural counterpart. If the private forum materializes, I might tell a story or two... can't share in a public space, so for now they are secret.

I know what you think, I wasn’t asking you.

The CPC is known to have insisted on the "out with the old, in with the new" approach most decisively for decades. Traditional arts and sciences were condemned, taoist temples burned to the ground, practitioners publicly humiliated, sent to "reeducation camps" and so on. The legacy lingers -- although later they took a somewhat different stance and the pendulum started moving toward "restoration." They realized that all those things they used to condemn can be turned into tourist attractions and marketable trinkets. So it's not unusual to encounter views in people influenced by this sort of education that glorify things traditional at the cost of the tradition itself, by reformulating it in "modern" quasi-scientific terms. Instead of forbidding all things cultivation they try to give them Western style respectability. This is a very simplified picture of course...

Nope, the idea was not an elitist club, anymore than a tennis club that wants its members to be tennis players rather than football players bent on preaching to them about the correct shape of the ball they should be playing with. Or a football club that tries to stop tennis players from running around the field swinging their racquets at the goalkeeper. TBH that idea was born out of sheer frustration... a pipe dream... something along the lines of that tree house rule:

Google yields even more reliable results if you put site:thedaobums.com in your query. It's a great tip to know as of course works with any other domain name. On a similar note, i noticed when viewing a user's content history (either via the newspaper icon on profile, or the 🔍Find Content popup) it only goes back a few months. To get the full list you just have to click Posts on left side of the window, or from the Content Type drop-down if using a small window.

I read the title of this thread as ‘Saving Private Neidan’ on first take made me laugh.

From Lama Dawai Gocha: I suggest asking for a pointing out in a live session to see Awareness for yourself.

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I think ChiDragon has a future in US politics...

* Mod Note: Xing/Dharmakaya Daoist-Buddhist Discussion Split off here:*

22 pages in finally a good neidan related topic Buddhism (and especially mahayana - vajrayana) shares quite a bit of similarity with original daoism but neidan is a different method with different goals that happens to overlap in a few places (I am both a practicioner of vajrayana and neidan) Dzogchen is strangely used as a xing method by a few different lineages though, with exact descriptions of the crystal kati channel The golden elixir is your true nature yes but its simultaneously a real energetic - physical substance with specific instructions, not something to be found pre-existing as in vajrayana (primordial purity)

My teacher from way back had a ‘family book’ which he occasionally mentioned but was cagey about what was actually in it. It seemed it included some Feng Shui apart from other stuff. He was also something of a Sino- supremicist and a bit sneery about anything western (including toast for some reason). Yes he was a toastist.

Yes. And I also think people can ask questions/clarifications. Sorry, I should have stated that people should cite a teacher, a school, OR a text, allowing people some range of anonymity if they choose. For example, a person may be a part of school that rejects generally accepted neidan texts and relies on the internal texts or interpretations of that school. Others may have a teacher that generally disagrees with the various schools and texts. Others may be a part of a traditional lineage but choose to rely on statements in texts and commentaries. Of course, a lot of it will not be fully well defined and I imagine we can create rules and other things as the issue arises. It seems to me that there are at least a group here that generally agrees on what neidan is even if they disagree which schools/approaches are authentic. But yes, the fundamental problem is excluding off topic, made up, AI, DIY neidan, etc. I'm sure not everyone will like or be happy with it, but I think it's worth experimenting with it since there are few Daoist themed sites.

Quick comment: Completly blank on this subject, but based on a quick google search, it sounds fascinating. I would not participate, other than perhaps an occasional question for clarification, but I’d love to read and learn. In favour!

Hi! That is not true from what i have been taught. While there are some Neidan texts that suggest that golden elixir is the true nature others dont. What one has to understand is that neidan texts are alchemical texts meaning they are mostly useless without lineage or divine inspiration (very rare). In the same way one cannot make the external elixir (the philosophers stone) from reading texts about it one cannot get anywhere or understand much when reading alchemical texts without teacher and direct experience. The golden elixir reveals!!! ... the true nature in a deeply embodied way because it is the merging of xing and ming.....meaning the deepest form of inner division is neutralized .... xing = preheaven yin, ming = preheaven yang. Ancient neidan does not talk about returning to the Dao but about repairing it within the bodymind (through the merging of xing and ming). At the same time the golden elixir makes one earth immortal which means the physical body lasts for a really long time. Much here appreciated freeform had known a living immortal master (they appear not only in daoism but also in Tamil siddha tradition or the wizzars tradition of Burmese).

Hi @ChiDragon, I have a genuine question for you. I don't mean any disrespect but your answer will help me understand your positions related to neidan. I believe you've posted here that you have studied taijiquan with a teacher at some point. My questions is, have you ever studied neidan or other forms of neigong (other than taijiquan) with a teacher? If so, can you share what system or lineage? I'm trying to understand where the "original Taoist method of Neidan" is coming from. Thank you

I don´t have a neidan teacher or lineage but am happy to sit on the sidelines. If such a forum facilitates useful communication among dedicated practitioners, surely that´s a good thing. Importantly, I would still be able to read the forum posts. (At least I think so?) Such reading might prove very educational. If I want to join the tennis team, I´ll have a better idea what tennis requires and how I might get lessons. Nothing would be closed to me.

A bit of googling revealed that it is quite common to reduce Neidan to a kind of biochemical health system. How weird … is this the CPC approved strategy?

Recently the site is operating smoothly, but don't know for how long. Last time when the search function was used the system slowed down. So if we all use Google to search, it would alleviate the system's load.

You will still have the secrecy problem, as members will often not want to state where they belong to. Every teacher has a right to be left alone. Something that could help, would be an obligatory entry for a poster, containing : stating what in their opinion is the subject and the goal of the practice (premise), then define the basic ingredients (framework, reference, contents), name the old chinese characters and their English translations thereof. Then who wishes may be able to ‘re-translate’ the meaning, e.g.according to XYZ 命 [= Ming, means 1. breathwork only in the context of CDE 2. grilling the fish that has a wanting to go upstream, in the context of old daoist fables] Might be long and wary, but so at least one has a chance at understanding each other (tower of babel problem) and words are not empty vessels or carry an unintended message downstream. Else someone might unintentionally pass something like ‘severe punishment’ in the wording of ‘unconditional love’ and tries to connect it to e.g. 靈. No way to guarantee a beneficial meaning, but at least for the reader it becomes more obvious, what in the minds eye of someone is going on, (e.g. it is ND according to CD, so to me it’s ChiDragoning, not Neidan in the thus-thus school, or the like, no offence…, CD!) Thus like minded people could easier connect and also students with teachers. If both want to and see potential.

Just can't understand why hide neidan content from general public/unregistered users. It's not like TDB is flooded with posts on neidan anyway. Also, there already exists a Taoist Texts subforum and the activity there is not huge. Making an elitist club out of neidan? Says something about TDB...

Fire from the Heavenly Stem hits the stable where the Horse has been chomping at the bit for 60 years. The Horse jumps out of the burning gate and takes off galloping, mane fiery, tail ablaze. It never fails to leave its hoof prints on the world's politics, economy, and landscape. Here are some of them: 1846 Mexican–American War begins, reshaping the future borders of the U.S. Peasant uprising in Galicia, future Ukraine, engineered by the occupying Austrian empire against the local Polish nobility. 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, one of the worst urban disasters in U.S. history. Mount Vesuvius eruption in Italy, a major disaster affecting Naples and surrounding regions. 1966 Cultural Revolution begins in China, profoundly reshaping society and politics. Flooding in Italy destroys a lot of cultural heritage in Florence and Venice. A major escalation in the Vietnam war. 2026 -- ? Of course there were good things happening too. The type of qi known as the Fire Horse can be quite transformative and, under the right circumstances and given the right treatment, energizing, illuminating, and magnificent. But it's the most volatile kind of them all, unpredictable and not easily governable. Let's hope no pale riders manage to mount it.

May I see the MWD version?

We are in a Wu Wei mode at all times. Since when, I ask to have permission to grant copyright?

How many have you got? The amount of unconscious desire is just the lack of awareness in that particular direction. For some it can be very strong, in others weak. If you can remain aware of desire whilst it coming up, you can learn a thing or two.

Perhaps religions are designed to facilitate the management and use of humans https://exopolitics.org/world-religions-are-historical-records-of-et-contact-genetic-experiments-in-multiple-edens/ These days the concept of humans as co-creators allows freedom from subservience

Zouwang has something of the dzogchen about it.

Yeah, how many girlfriends you have got for last few months?

This is due to desire that clouts your vision. I am a high libido person and only sitting in awareness can rid me of the desire. But there is no intention of any kind to rid me of anything. All coming from a higher place. Real love is unconditional.

Thank you for your understanding my thoughts. _/\_

For what its worth, all of the Buddhas (with remainder) I know have grey hair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)#Etymology_and_meaning

So I came across this song. Felt magical. I was unsure of wheater or not to share it after, so I’ll share and elaborate below. (afterthought: also, with music, different kinds resonate with different people/moods, so is it somewhat intrusive to share?)

Thank. Does pure original Neidan even exist?

Very beautifull words, thank you

@Sanity Check Didn't understand your cryptic statement -- are you sure you meant it for me? I am not an admin/mod who can do or not do it, and I've no clue which "basic facts" you're referring to that I "can't get straight." ???

I’m the chimera, the harmonious balance of opposites.

Please no

It's ok in 2025 to confuse everything. One time in China someone approached me and asked me if i was an artist ? I said yes, i'm a martial artist. It solved the confusion immediately 😁

if u mean this: 气 + 米 —> 氣 air + rice —> qi oxygen + food —> energy this is post-heaven qi, nothing to do with Neidan

Kamma is the cause and effects of actions and intentions. The dhamma is the nature of existence, and also is refered to as the Buddha's teachings.

https://share.google/DllN8QiOMVdcg0yay

Alright, so this thread is primarilly about the book mentioned in the title: if you have any thoughts or knowledge of it. Id also like to write a little about my relationship with reading and the book boat Epos. You are, as always, free to respond as you wish. So, From the age to, lets say 7-8 up til 15-16, I was a big reader. Untill the teenage years, it was mostly (maybe exclusivley) fantasy or children books. A loooooot of Harry Potter During the age 13-16 (approx), I got into some of the great authors of the the 1900s, starting with my countryman Hamsun. What a writer! Below is an excerpt from his wiki article: Herman Hesse, mentioned in the excerpt above, I loved as well. Siddharta and Steppenwolf I remember really spoke to me, but I do not remember the stories, as it is more than a decade since I read them. After that, untill I came across the Gita and Isha Upanishad, I was relegated from the library of life to youtube university. Well, relegated might be a bit to harsh of a word; perhaps getting a some superficial knowledge of various fields was adventagues before diving deep, as I intend to know. So, I have been given two "orders" from several people I respect and see as friends as teachers. One is to chant the mahamantra, the other to read a few pages of vedic litterature daily. Right know, I am reading Nectar of devotion, and so far it seems real good. I also think I might have identified my dharma: ayurveda, so thats something id like to specialize in. Now, over to the library boat Epos: The western region of Norway, is... well, look at the pick above: mountainous and fjords everywhere. This leads to there being a lot of smaller communites scattered around this region. So in order to give them access to a library that everyone in cities and larger towns has, Epos has been sailing the fjords for more than six decades Since 2022 they function a little different: they now rely on donated books, and can either be bought or read (for free) at the ship itself, and is also a cafe/bar. Today, they took camp at a port I was walking trough, so I went in and had a chat. One book really cought my attention, the last book - the diary of the last earthlings. It was just fascninating, but hard to get a grip about what it was about, so I asked on of the employes. She said it was about everything (of value). The idea being, if youve read this, you know all you need to know and wont have to read another book ever again. I asked how much she wanted for it, but since this was a donation, it was not for sale. I was ofc. welcome to read it at the ship, but considering how sporadically they travel around, Im not sure if the stars will align again. Another alternativ, was to buy it elsewhere for 1.500 NOK (divide that by 10 and you get the approx price (150) in euros, usd and pounds). As of know, this is too much for me. The Last Book - The Diary of The Last Earthling https://www.amazon.com/Last-Book-Diary-Earthling-Illustrations/dp/B0FLDJNYWN Ive also ordered this book: Book of Symbolism - Harry B Joseph https://revivalofwisdom.com/products/book-of-symbolism?srsltid=AfmBOopJEONnbMINXXHSd39GVX0gMBEXHP7L_xB0sIvUYWA8hRxu8iG8

So 依法不依人 could also help isn't it ?

Perfect in itself, ofc. But growing up in a Lutheran nation, I did not have any religious associations to it. However, it was played at my grandmother’s funeral. And it fit perfectly, she was a true saint. I still think she is watching over me.

Many Moons ago ... I was in a Wiccan coven , we had three fire horses in it ; one was an Aries and the other two a Leo and a Sagg It was a fun group . I made good friends with the Aries fire horse ... wow , just walking down the street with her ! - I'll tell just one story about her ; we had a pervy guy here that really annoyed everyone , any new woman that turned up he immediately 'went after ' ... he was also naturally 'urksome' so was not having much success . So my fire horse friend is visiting, he immediately starts hanging around . We go down to the river and a few people are there , we had a small sweat lodge by the river then and someone had been using it, the fire was still going . My friend was ''Oh cool ! A sweat lodge .'' strips naked and goes in . Pervy guy jumps up '' I will have a sweat too ! and drops his swimming shorts and goes in . After a few minutes he comes rushing out looking totally freaked out and doing this little hurried jog like a little boy rushing to the toilet holding his hands over and shielding his 'Pee-pee' , he grabbed his shorts and took off . Then my friend came out smiling . I asked her what she did to him ... but she would never tell me .

I think that sounds good, many of the posts in daoist discussion seem neidan adjacent so i'd be interested to hear more about what specifically goes in which place Also something that might help there is, (as i'm guessing its supposed to attract more high quality info and discussion), an informal rule of the OP stating which tradition they're talking about before bringing up the topic Like Topic: Pore breathing visualization Dragons gate lineage Does anyone have some tips for the visualization when doing WLPs pore breathing exercise vs the current Topic: Pore breathing anyone know how to pore breath bro *15 page flame war with 5 different schools* Something to consider is that very specific topics often only have a few people that can answer the question, and so there tends to be a lot of threads that have no replies, a good example is dharmawheel where theres a ton of empty threads because people are asking things that only a few thousand people on earth can answer Maybe something like, general open discussions of neidan can still go in Daoist Discussion and then the neidan subforum can be used for people who only want that specialized info and are fine with waiting for someone who can genuinely discuss the topic?

I will echo this: "Your Father has a gift for you today. It is the gift of Wholeness . . . and it is wrapped in your peace. May every act of kindness, love, care, thankfulness and friendship expressed today spark a light in the eather of the earth and give rise to the spirit of Christ-in-mass. I am with you always, Amen. "

TMH (@thememoryhole): "Viktor Frankl on the Importance of Overestimating People"