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“One cannot attend a single thread on the Dao Bums, where cultivators of every lineage and temperament are gathered for the great ball of spiritual discourse, without being entertained by the most delightful rumours: that Master X has secretly attained rainbow body in a cave near Chengdu, that Adept Y has fallen into deviant qigong and married a fox spirit, and that poor Neophyte Z is violently in love with the teachings of the late Master Ni, while everyone insists he is promised to the Complete Reality school! How such reports arise in a forum where people ostensibly have nothing to do but discuss the Dao, I protest I cannot imagine.”

How very Jane Austen

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r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @-webkit-keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} @keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} .r-24vbc0{position:absolute;visibility:hidden;top:0;width:50px;pointer-events:none} .r-24vbc0.loaded{visibility:visible;top:50vh;width:50px} Chaos magic (also spelled "chaos magick") as a distinct modern magical paradigm first emerged in the late 1970s in West Yorkshire, England.Key milestones: 1976–1977: The foundational ideas began circulating in a loose group of occultists in Yorkshire. Early figures included Pete Carroll, Ray Sherwin, and others who were dissatisfied with the rigid hierarchies and dogmas of traditional magical orders (Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc.). 1978: The first public statement of chaos magic principles appeared in Pete Carroll’s book Liber Null (published privately at first) and Ray Sherwin’s The Book of Results (also 1978). These two short works are considered the “founding texts” of chaos magic. In them, terms like “chaos magic,” the rejection of belief systems as tools rather than truths, and techniques like sigil magic derived from Austin Osman Spare were formalised. Late 1970s – early 1980s: The loose network called the Illuminates of Thanateros (IOT) was formed (initially as a mail-based pact in 1978–79), becoming the first formal chaos magic organisation. So the commonly accepted “birth year” of chaos magic as a self-conscious movement is 1978, with the publication and private circulation of Liber Null and The Book of Results.(For context, Austin Osman Spare’s sigil techniques from the early 20th century and Discordianism in the 1960s are important precursors, but chaos magic proper begins in 1978 with Carroll, Sherwin, and their circle explicitly branding and systematising the approach.)

I don’t think there is any relation between chaos theory ad chaos magic apart from the name.

Thank you for your long and detailed reply. I'll see if I can come back with one myself: Agreed on all counts. There has never been any conversation in the conventional sense in my visions, and this was no different, though more thoroughly real almost any of the others, and most certainly fitting the bill of angelic in a strange, dusty, time and space forgotten forever kind of way. Yes, the sword fits the bill... one of a number I have been handed. It makes no particular sense to me, and has no top-of-consciousness resonance. I have been calling it a "Logos", which fits right in there in its way. Makes sense. It isn't anything internal, in my opinion, though some would argue that ALL of this internal. The subconscious is a man-made construct that I don't buy anymore. What makes the most sense to me is that it is a symbolic representation of perfected "beingness" as an illusory separate construct, and therefore naturally having some inaccuracy. I agree with your second idea. I think how it appears (or if it does at all) depends upon how clear your ability to see is in relation to your obscurations. By obscurations I am referring to: https://www.wisdomlib.org/concept/obscuration Yeah... I dunno. Higher "self" doesn't make any real sense from my perspective, except possibly in symbolic terms. I can't attribute any particular depth of understanding to the encounter, which isn't to say that deepening of seeing into emptiness doesn't happen all the time. I find that this comes where there is less trying to conspire and contrive reality and more accepting and surrendering to what seems to want to happen, or alignment with the Tao. My teacher tells me that those with insight are "taken care of" meaning that minor miracles and synchronicities seem to occur, and things just tend to work out - not winning the lottery, or anything, but a more general simple good fortune. The devil you say! I suppose I don't think so either, now that I really talk it through. I'll just say, I think anyone who has the inclination and can hold a belief lightly should try this experiment, summoning often, earnestly and with good intentions to be of benefit to others. It certainly convinced me that magic is possible and does work if there is no clinging to outcomes. It would probably be even more beneficial to someone who hasn't already travelled so far in another tradition. What other workings would you recommend that might be synergistic, beneficial or build on success with this one?

A Dialogue Between Carlos Castaneda and Master Sosan Carlos: I came for knowledge. Don Juan would say it isn’t given for free — but I’ve heard that your teaching is different. You speak of the Oneness of all things… but how do you feel it in action, not just talk about it? Master Sosan: You seek what you already have. As long as you look outward, you pass by the door. You can enter only by leaving the search. Carlos: Leave the search? But the warrior’s path is continuous effort: stalking, not-doing, impeccability… If I stop searching — wouldn’t that be the death of spirit? Sosan: When the search ends, seeing begins. Effort is useful to sharpen attention, but useless when you’re already at the destination. You hold a mirror in your hands, yet you ask for directions to your own reflection. Carlos: But the world is opaque. It pushes me in different directions. Energies, intent, the shadow of the human form… it’s all so complicated. Sosan: Complication is what the mind creates to feel necessary. In reality there is neither simple nor complex — only what is happening. And it doesn’t resist you, unless you clash with it head-on. Carlos: Don Juan would say you speak like someone who has lost the sense of importance of his personal story. Sosan (smiling): A story is a dream. But you can sleep consciously or unconsciously. The difference lies in a single thought: “this is mine.” Carlos: But what about the path? What about intent? Without it, we lose direction. Sosan: Direction exists only when there is someone who walks. But when Being itself is walking — where could it possibly go? You want to control the wind, but the wind is already blowing. Stop trying to point its way — and you will become its movement. Carlos: What you’re saying… sounds like not-doing, but distilled to its very essence. Sosan: Not-doing is just another name for naturalness. You try to “not do,” yet even that becomes doing. I say: stop clinging. Then everything will be done through you. Carlos: You claim there is no path and no walker. Then why are we talking? Sosan: To hear the silence between the words. Once you hear it — the conversation becomes unnecessary. Carlos: Still… how will I know that I’ve understood? Sosan: When you stop asking. Understanding is not an answer — it’s the disappearance of the need for an answer. Carlos: So… everything I’ve studied, all the techniques, all the experiences — they’re just ripples on the water? Sosan: Ripples do not prevent the water from being water. Your practices do not prevent Truth from being Truth. But stop calling the ripples deep and important — and then you will see the water itself. Carlos (after a pause): I see… but I can’t say I understand. Sosan: Then that is the first real step.

...................................................... .

**STORY: “THE MIND, THE NOISE, AND THE NOTHING”** In Moscow, where balls were followed by gossip and gossip by new balls, an event occurred as unusual as snow appearing in July. A mysterious Eastern guest had arrived at Famusov’s house — Master Sosan, a man who spoke little, and when he did speak, no one understood how he managed it. Famusov decided this was some fashionable exotic curiosity and immediately invited all his acquaintances. After all, if someone speaks in riddles, he must be a philosopher — and philosophers are excellent for showing off in front of guests. 1. The Arrival of Chatsky Chatsky, returning to Moscow earlier than usual, walked into Famusov’s house just in time to witness the guests puzzling over Master Sosan’s first phrase: “When the mind seeks support, it falls. When it seeks nothing, it stands.” Famusov scratched his temple and whispered to Skalozub: “Seems to me he’s talking about fortifications.” Skalozub nodded gravely, deciding the phrase concerned a military stance. But Chatsky, of course, stepped forward: “To stand without support is to be honest with oneself! To be a human being, not a puppet pulled by tradition, submissiveness, and fear!” Sosan looked at him calmly, as one looks at the wind that makes noise without trying to be heard. “A noisy mind is a mind that believes in its own truth,” the master said. “Noise!” Sofia exclaimed loudly, appearing in the doorway. “How true! Our dear Chatsky only makes noise, noise…” She said it deliberately loudly — so that he would hear. Chatsky flushed. 2. A Parade of Wit and Emptiness The guests gathered around the master. Prince Tugoukhovsky asked: “Tell us, respected sir… do you teach that one should not strive toward reason?” “A mind that strives to become great contracts. A mind that does not cling to itself expands and sees everything.” Tugoukhovsky, having misheard, replied confidently: “Well, expanding in society is not customary.” Sosan nodded: “Exactly.” The crowd hummed with admiration — what a great wisdom! Famusov beamed — such a rare Eastern philosopher in his house! Chatsky, however, boiled with irritation: “So you mean to say that everything is nothing? That the mind is merely empty chatter? What about progress, truth, honor?” Master Sosan looked at him with gentle sadness: “Truth does not make noise. Only those who argue about it do.” The phrase hung in the air like silence after a storm. 3. Sofia and the Shadow of Words When the guests left, Sofia approached the master. “Tell me, is it possible to stop hearing the noise of the mind?” “It is possible. But one cannot force silence to arrive.” Sofia thought for a moment. “So Alexei Stepanovich (she meant Molchalin, of course) is right to stay silent?” “Silence and fear are different things,” the master replied softly. She felt uncomfortable. 4. Meeting of Two Fires Later Chatsky finally approached him. “I’m not seeking enlightenment, you know. I’m seeking common sense. But it seems to me you undermine the very foundation — thought itself!” Sosan smiled: “You love thought too much to hear its root.” “And what is the root?” “That which does not think. That which sees. That which remains when the argument ends.” Chatsky wanted to reply — but something strange happened: the monologue that so easily burst out of him suddenly lost its thread. Words approached his lips and melted like snow on a palm. Sosan stood. “Moscow is noisy. But there is emptiness in noise as well. You will find it — when you stop trying to convince others.” He left. 5. Famusov’s Epilogue When the master departed, Famusov summed up: “An extraordinary man! Apparently said a lot. And what exactly — no one understood. That means he’s very clever!” “Or very free,” Chatsky muttered. But Famusov no longer heard him. Nor did Moscow. Only deep within Chatsky, for the first time, echoed the phrase: “When the mind seeks support — it falls.” And he, without meaning to, for the first time in a long while… fell silent.

My balls have always been followed by gossip.

I wasn’t talking about the nature of numbers but about how complex systems of large numbers of things ( eg raindrops hitting a windscreen) can be described. As random and chaotic for instance.

There are two types of chaos. One is the pre- creational state which is formless and undefinable. The other is the complexity of large numbers of things moving independently.

I personally dislike Castenada. He told one of his followers if they needed to find him (post humously) they only needed to drive their sports car as fast as possible into the desert. Remains of said followers were later found in the desert. Uncool bruh.

Its hard to say as 1) people's claims seem relevant to themselves , so success ....will likewise seem relevant to the self view. and 2) the case of definition of what actually HGA is * and 3) . 'Knowledge of ' seems very different to 'converse with ' and any 'converse' , especially on this level ( ie. not the 'normal everyday level of consciousness ' ) , might be subtle , symbolic , etc . * according to Crowley its a name he got from the Book of Abramelin which he applied . he equated it with 'genius' and 'daimon' of the ancient Greeks although in his version it is an objective individual and not just our 'higher nature' . The ancient Greeks (and Romans ) seem split on various ideas about this ( I lean towards the Socratic view ) regarding them as either 'indwelling' or attendant ' and have relationship to character , personality , aspirations and inspirations and inner spiritual and outer material guidance . To me it seems a mixture of these forces .... or , that is our perception from 'here ' . If I am flexible with the definitions I feel I have had definite success with communication but many would say ' That was not your HGA ' - however some Greek sources believe the 'daimon' to be a soul of a person from their 'Golden Age ' who 'watched over' you . This seems to go along with some old Zoroastrian concepts ( the origin of a lot of 'spirituality ' in Crowley's system ) where good people from the past may assign themselves ( or part of their function ) to come back / visit certain people to give advice and assistance and to work as a 'bridge' between yourself in this life and the 'other side' - which seemed to be the case for me . Also it goes along with a few different traditional origins So, if one sees it as a 'higher self' OF oneself , then that might be something other than HGA ( and there are a few higher levels of 'self' ) . But if it IS an objective outside influence to guide and direct and converse with and get advice , then I feel I have had immense success , and that seems to go along with the view of what was meant by it (as opposed to what was injected into the concept later ; higher self ) . Sometimes there seems a 'shadowy collective ' in the background , but converse has definitely been by one particular one . There is also subtle guidance that results in luck, fortune and other things .... behind the scenes , as it were , that is , not being aware of process , just the outcome ... which can result in the 'magician' having the appearance of ' pure arse ' . Its difficult to say what is behind that . eg ; pure arse is like when our lawyer was happy but incredulous how 'fate' kept constantly coming to my assistance in our court case : ''Its like , they ( the prosecutors ) push you in a river , you fall and stumble, landing on a stepping stone and career from one stone to the other and land on the other side, on a silk cushion, with a cocktail in your hand ' people have often been exasperated by my 'pure arse ' at times Definitely not .

This is not a Monty Python skit.

Far from it. The Taoist movement is merely up and down of the whole body for a few inches in quick succession. It is better classify into pure physical movements, a mini bouncing, but not tremor or vibration. If cat is to be used as an example, it is more like the cat shaking the water onto you, or dogs too.

I'd love to pretend that I have anything really useful to say on this topic, but I can't. In the 80's I had read Crowley's biography, his novel "Moonchild", some other materials, and Golden Dawn stuff. I came across the concept of "Chaos Magic" late last year in a Buddhist podcast interview, somewhere. It is something that crossed my radar from left-field and was a brief source of interest. My research included most of the books by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford (some of which didn't make complete logically sense to me, or seemed to be what I call "sideways spelunking" rather than direct climbing out of the cavern of delusion), Chapman's "Advanced Magick for Beginners", as well as "Liber Null & Psychonaut: An Introduction to Chaos Magic", and "Liber Chaos" by Peter J. Carroll. Whether it is entirely something new wouldn't particularly matter to me... it's real appeal was its accessibility, simplicity, and efficacy.

It’s Armenian, Got no cream in, It’s the coffee got you dreamin’ It’s a fact, No coffee’s like that, This side of Mount Ararat, It’s hot In the pot what we got Drink it, drink it a lot. (modest coffee rap)

even the curdled skin ...... no inari sushi for you ? I LUV it ! Although I have to say I do not approve of non-traditional ingredients in it ..... corn on top ???? Noooooooo and dont make it like a Totoro either !

I hate toffee. But I like coffee!

I hate tofu. but I like toffee!

In my world a belief is an hypothesis awaiting testing by experiment

Well , here is the proof ....... do you like tofu ? I used to make tofu , my GF did bean sprouts , we did a delivery run together . The last drop off point was a small health food store and the woman there always took our left over bean sprouts ... heaps of alfalfa sprouts . I asked if she ate them and she said no, her cat likes them .... not one or two , but a big handful in a bowl ! Imagine puss munching his way through a pile of stringy wet green sprouts https://articles.hepper.com/can-cats-eat-bean-sprouts/ Hmmm ... after this diversion I think I just invoked ... ' dont care mind '

Ahhhhh , but Coby ....... metaphysical experiments ! They have different 'constitutes ' .... just like 'alternative archaeology ' has

he is probably referencing himself and the 'experiments' he cites , which seem like exercises in visualizations and imagination while imagining himself as something 'other ' than human and the random results thereof as somehow significant , to him but often out of context and not relating to the conversation at hand . But hey ... why miss an opportunity to blow your own trumpet ? .

What I like about November are these two great American Holidays. Song mentions drinking multiple times, got to get those sea legs somehow,,, Fun fact, if there was no US Air Force, the largest Air Force on the planet would be, drum roll please, The US Navy!!! Thing is, we do have a US Air Force!!! "If you should live to be a grey haired wonder; keep your nose out of the Blue" Apparently did not apply to Chuck Yeager That is quite a lot for any nations to contend with. And we got Marines They a little different breed And a Coast Guard too I don't personally know any Space Force Veterans. They beyond the Blue, above in the Black, I reckon, kinda ominous And there is the US Army Formidable for real. Won't even mention the 400 million civilian guns, and countless Militias Or the twenty states that have their own Guard, separate from the National Guard.

I was just about to ask about that , someone gave the magical formula recently , I just tried it before and all I got was the Daobums main page I'll try again .

Google something like ‘dao bums forum <topic>. E.g. ‘dao bums forum evocation invocation?’ comes up with

The Self, our Being, is awareness. ~ Sri Muruganar To remain unconscious of Being is to be trapped within an ego-driven wasteland of conflict, strife, and fear that only seems customary. ~ Adyashanti The false self grows and thrives in unconscious being. When we are asleep to Being, our attention becomes entranced by mind—the vast array of ideas, images, beliefs, habits, opinions, and judgments that we have been conditioned to identify as self. ~ Adyashanti The more unconscious individuals, groups, or nations are, the more likely it is that egoic pathology will assume the form of physical violence. Violence is a primitive but still very widespread way in which the ego attempts to assert itself, to prove itself right or another wrong. With very unconscious people, arguments can easily lead to physical violence.~ Eckhart Tolle "There is no conflict in you, the Self. If there is conflict, it is between thought and thought. As long as the sense of 'I' and 'other' is believed, conflict is inevitable,". ~ Mooji

most of my 4 years in the military were during the Vietnam war era (but I remained stationed statewide) soon after I graduated from high school. I had a civilian like job which I liked and was pretty good at. (telecommunications which included being a telephone man which are mostly extinct now) The comradery among our guys was good, (there were no women in our unit) meeting new people, going to new places and learning new tasks was interesting and at times challenging to deal with. It was somewhat conflicting to me at times that we were under military rules while protecting civilian or democratically related freedoms, rules or laws.... As in civilian life with its whole gamut of human interactions (good and not so good) the military also has its whole gamut of things going on but with a command and rule structure from a 4 star general down to a new private that included orders being given and which must be followed or rather drastic consequences could follow! Also there are the dubious or dirty politicians and others deciding what would happen to and where our "boys" would be sent to carry out their political agendas which caused a lot of unnecessary suffering and deaths in war zones on all sides, along with riots taking place back in the states. (for example Kent state was a horrific one) As human beings there really is no free lunch for us; the saying, "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" (thus certain sacrifices) has been proven though the ages and is universal, so if taken for granted it won't be there for those that come after us! There are many examples about what some people get wrong or do to our military forces, like them being dishonored, betrayed, misused, or being under very poor and insane like leadership !! . Alas as with all peoples whether military or not our better or worse angels may come into play.

'' Hey ... glad you liked that song brother ..... you got two dollar for me ?'' '' Why should I give you two dollars ? '' '' Are you a Christian ? '' '' Yeah ... so what ? '' '' Well ..... Mark 12:15-17

Ahem... how about a modern resource? Mark Foote bridges ancient wisdom and modern science in this remarkable exploration of seated meditation. Drawing on Gautama Buddha's original teachings, Zen masters from Dogen to Shunryu Suzuki, and contemporary research in biomechanics and neuroscience, Foote reveals how natural, automatic movement in the body emerges when we surrender volition and allow consciousness to find its own place. For practitioners seeking to understand the relationship between body and mind in meditation, A Natural Mindfulness is an invaluable guide.

Jurassic Park was published in 1990. I don't think there is a written record of "chaos magic" preceding the year 2000. It probably was influenced by Jurassic Park although they very much want to pretend its not.