Leaderboard

I have had what I call luminous dreams (which is just a name I give them not a significant claim) where the dreams are especially bright and also stay with you - you don't forget them like ordinary dreams. They are always very significant and meaningful. But most of my dreams are just rather confused and full of my own metal stresses and concerns. The luminous dreams seem to contain messages which last and are guidance for long periods of time. I've had quite a few pre-cognition dreams where I dream about things which later come true (sometimes many years later). This proves to me that time is not linear and that all that happens to us is interconnected. I think that to rest one's consciousness in the pristine consciousness itself is quite an achievement in itself. But as a goal it is limited as it presents as a separate state - so it is prone to abstraction and negation of life and the world. But it is part of something more complete. That more complete thing engages both the subtle and physical body - and this is where the 'work' is. Whether you work through dreams or not, or through meditation and other processes, there is a task to be undertaken. I think mahamudra and dzogchen do have a fault in that this task is disguised in a lot of talk of resting in the natural state etc. which is very misleading if not fully understood. I am big fan of Karma Pakshi's three kaya model where you engage with consciousness itself, the subtle body and the physical body to form the svabhaivika kaya - but that's a whole other story.

I dreamed you were going to delete that.

Agreed. Especially since we had a gallop poll and everything!

Are you saying you wish people would stop horsing around?

I practice because I can, and it helps keep the mirror of my mind clean from the proverbial red dust of this world.

Your method for dream work is very similar to the method in my tradition for working with any experience, including dreams. Just as you recreate and embody the dream in your mind and feelings, we do the same with any experience or person that generates reactivity. These can be very recent experiences, alive in us at this very moment. They can be remote memories, dreams, people who generate reactivity, future worries, any life experience. We turn to the experience if it is active in the moment, or recreate whatever it is we want to work with as vividly as possible in body, speech, and mind. We sit with that for as long as it is fresh and alive. While we don't engage with it intellectually, we are often taken to earlier times and other experiences that may have some connection, often a connection we were not aware of. The one thing that may be a bit different is that we are working with the sense of a "me" who is being affected by the experience rather than hosting the experience itself. It's a very subtle but important difference in our paradigm. And we rest in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness. This is referred to as hosting pain identities. . It's a wonderful and powerful practice and one way we avoid the bypassing that can so easily happen to practitioners.

Part of my method for dream work is to “feel the feeling” after the dream has been interpreted to the best of one’s ability, which I did by recreating the dream in my mind and allowing myself as much as possible to re-enter the feeling created by the dream image. Doing this for decades, slowly getting better at it, allows the full force of a feeling to be experienced over time, and really this is what a fully open emotional channel is. Rumi’s poem captures the work perfectly - The Guest House Rumi Translated by Coleman Barks This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival. A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all! Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still, treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice, meet them at the door laughing, and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond.

This probably belongs here for reference ; https://www.boandbon.com/

I've practiced qigong for about 20 years. One thing I've learned is that my expectations need to be realistic. Certainly there are benefits from the forms I practice but qigong has not proven to be a comprehensive and complete system for me. I practice both Shiba Luohangong and Ba Duan Jin and derive valuable and different benefits from each. I have also continued to practice internal Chinese martial arts over that period of time - taijiquan, xingyiquan, and baguazhang. While I no longer compete or train martially with others, these have found a valuable role in my physical, energetic, and mental health. Finally, perhaps most important to me is my meditation practice from a Tibetan tradition. While I do think it's important to stick with a practice for a long time to really probe its depth and potential, I don't know that each one of us can expect to find a single practice or system that does everything we are looking for. Some do and that is wonderful but it hasn't been that way for me. I also think that we need to listen to our body and mind and maintain some openness and flexibility as our needs can change over time.

Expect another 12 months of that !

I´m trying to think of something funny to say, but faster, whittier Bums keep jockeying ahead of me.

We had to work with the banner image a little because it wasn´t the right size at first. Ended up using a version of the horse with a little brighter colors but the same idea. Hope you like it!

In the interest of rolling out the banner image as expeditiously as possible, the poll is now closed. Horse number Two pulled ahead and is the winner. Thanks to every one who suggested possible images and gave their opinion along the way. Forward!

Enlightenment, the end of the spiritual path. I also want to live a skilful life that helps make the lives of others easier as opposed to being a burden.

Nungali can’t reply because he is currently manifesting in my living room.

If you read the Heart Sutra from the perspective of realization it is as clean and clear as a mountain stream. I don't know of any non-dual expression that is more concise and to the point. Another in the same league (IMO) is the Tsin Tsin Ming by Tseng T'san, not written by the Buddha but rather a Ch'an patriarch much much later. Dharma is being penned by living beings every day, all over the world. It isn't important if the Buddha said it, or if the guy that runs the hardware store down the street said it. There have been countless enlightened beings since the Buddha, all Buddhas themselves. They walk the streets of your town, tip their hats, and frequent the aformentioned hardware store to see their dharma brother. Even their simple kindness and patience is dharma.

Meh...that's like the endless DDJ translation debates. It doesn't change anything. I am a practitioner, not a scholar. But, thanks for the side-note.

If I have an emotional reaction to someone or something and it’s a painful emotion or just something I’d prefer not to feel, I will catch myself tightening against it and remind myself to allow myself to fully feel it, so I agree there’s more than just dreams to do this with. The thing about dreams is I see them as a programme that a governing part of myself, some very broad knowledge part of myself, an overarching consciousness, is running over time, designed to undo reactive history at the root, both the historical emotions and stories that have conditioned us. I did identify with the feelings, I did see them as me, but there came a time when I started to shift my primary identification from being my thoughts and emotions to different aspects of myself. From all the information I’ve gathered the thought/emotion level is the paired side channels, the emotional channel going up and the mental channel coming down, creating a circuit. I see it as my consciousness travelling up the emotional channel (which took thirty years or so) and down the mental channel (which took a couple of months), removing all blocks as I went. Completing one circuit of the side channels allowed the consciousness’s of the central channel to activate, and my identification as being my emotional/mental level is diminishing. But in my paradigm though emotions and thoughts dont not drive me like they did, they remain as valid informants giving my whole organism important information. Energy still flows through them, they’re part of my subtle body, but they’re not the governor.

As an ordained teacher of Zen I can tell you: Zen is big on the "sudden enlightenment" idea. This refers to the idea that, while there may be many years of learning and practice, it is not the practice that actually enlightens. It is commonly said that the sound of a kicked pebble hitting a pot could awaken you. You could be driving to the tire store, making a sandwich, or... anything. There are also those (in Buddhism) called Pratyeka buddhas - they awaken with no method or exposure to the teachings. They are real - I have met a couple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddhayāna I am satisfied that enlightenment doesn't belong to any particular tradition, or philosophy, and isn't caused by any particular practice, what matters is that there is a moment where the reality of the understanding is noticed suddenly, usually when the mind is quiet.

This is a depiction of the Hetu (河圖, “River Map”) and the mythic Longma (龍馬, Dragon-Horse). According to tradition, a dragon-horse emerged from the Yellow River carrying the Hetu diagram on its back — a cosmological pattern representing early foundational principles of taoism.

Yes, but one can have one hell of an argument! DaoBums for the win!

My take on this is, first there are different types of dreams ; what you call the luminous dream ( great name ) seems the 'highest' . I have had them and a friend described one well to me ; it had a certain quality of light , she felt transformed afterwards . It was about her going out into the garden and seeing a peacock there , in full display , colors , light, and other qualities .... I put her onto the 'Peacock Angel ' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawûsî_Melek I think they are communications with our 'higher aspects' / tutelary spirits / Guardian Angel / 'Super-consciousness' . Normally when awake, they most often communicate subtly into the unconscious and we get communication to the consciousness via symbolism . When we are asleep and this is happening .. and we are getting a significant 'download' we have a 'luminous dream ' . The opposite 'lower forces ' give us the opposite type of dreams , as you describe ; like lower 'astral' all sorts of gumbo-jumbo mixed up together and flash backs . Then there is another type that you describe , where 'non-local' aspects of consciousness come into play . DR Wilson Van Dusen ( the 'Evidence of spirits in madness ' guy , the one that worked in the psychiatric institution and di clinical trial on this ) when talking about patients 'hallucinations ' / ' possessing spirits ' observed and noted the good qualities of the 'higher hallucinations' (although rarer ) and the same with the 'lower order hallucinations ' and also noted ; '' The higher ones seem more like Jung's 'Archetypes' , while the lower ones seem more like Freud's 'Id ' .

Ohhh I do ! Used to do it professionally . I cook various Asian, Middle Eastern, Persian, Mediterranean ... but never African , for some reason . Maybe I assume I cant get the spices* ? I'm not sure why . yeah, I should give it a go . * a lot of the time they need to be fresh ones . I remember years back, I was being treated to some delicious Persian cooking , I was invited to meals by refugees (post Iran Islamic revolution ) I had been working with , and when they got a home they would invite me to dinner . One time I asked for a recipe ; ''Oh no, you would not be able to make it .'' '' I could give it a try ?'' '' No, you would not have the spices and herbs . '' '' Cant I buy them ? '' '' No, special, rare , cant get them here .'' '' I think I can .'' '' No, not the fresh ones, you need fresh ones .'' ''How did you get them?'' ''Friends grow them , here in their garden .'' ''Then I should be able to buy seed and grow them?'' ''No, you cant get the seed here .'' ''Well then, how did you get them .'' ''We bought them with us .'' ..... ? ... '' Are you saying, when you left Iran , as you told me , disguised as herders , going across the desert , hid some things in your robes , including, one person in your group, a baby , and you thought to bring some seeds with you , on the chance that you would make it, go through various countries , and searches and check points , for months, maybe years on end , finally end somewhere and maybe able to plant them ... so you can make your traditional food ?'' ''Yes . '' Now that is dedication to indigenous cuisine !

Agreed, one mistake is to take it as a goal, per se, another to consider it a separate state. While it is a valuable skill to cultivate, once there is some level of success and stability it should no longer be treated as final goal. It is more of a tool. The goal becomes total integration in all states of human experience. For sure the method is prone to abstraction and disconnection. This is why expert guidance and a close relationship with a lineage and teacher are so important. I very much agree. The work must address everything in human experience, from the coarsest to the most subtle. There is work at each level. In the dzogchen tradition I follow, every formal practice session includes elements from sutra, tantra, and dzogchen. At a minimum prayers, energetic cleansing, and guru yoga. In life, one must attend to the physical body, the subtle body, and mind's nature. I think it is a mistake to fault mahamudra or dzogchen, per se. The fault lies with the teacher and/or the practitioner. That is where misleading and misunderstanding occur. In these vehicles, there is a common tendency to conflate the practitioner with the inherent perfection of the primordially pure essence. It is not surprising, given that this is the very essence of the practitioner herself. It is my contention that in the living being, there is never complete and perfect union with / resting in pristine consciousness. Any experience we have of "that" is actually an experience of the release of an obstacle that was previously limiting our openness, our spaciousness, our warmth in some way. This is in part because in life we are always limited by our human form and in part because what we are pointing to in these teachings is not "a state" of any sort in the way we can envision what that means. We remain human and it is the human mind that experiences and recollects the release of limitations as some special state. That in and of itself is a bit of an error. Yes, there can be a lot of talk, particularly by anonymous folks online and in teaching sessions especially when beginner and intermediate practitioners are involved, but the talk and study are released and become less interesting as the path is understood. There was a time when I couldn't get enough of reading and listening to the teachings. I would read before, during, and after work, and on the weekends. I would listen to recordings whenever driving. Now these rarely hold my attention any longer. It is the resting and the integration that are most fascinating and engaging for the most part.

Lovely post. Thank you for the clarity of it and sharing your experience. You should stop listening to metal if it stresses you.

Tell me about that, in the place where I work most of my colleagues are from Kerala and Nigeria. That staffroom at lunchtime... Start cooking, mate. Learn from the best. These days I rarely go to restaurants and pretty much cook 80% of what I eat. Food wise, it's all poison out there.

No need for an apology. I very much appreciate both responses. Good stuff here with which to spend some time. 🙏🏼

if you’re told that spaciousness and stillness is what we should be looking for, and you find spaciousness and stillness, then you can think you have arrived at what you believe to be the destination. But what if this as a destination is more like a model of consciousness, and as with all models they fray at the edges, and new comprehension of consciousness dawns. You believe your achievement is absolute, but it might be as primitive one day as the belief that rain gods needed to be sacrificed to to cause rain. You are working within the model you believe in, but in the future that model might have advanced significantly. From my perspective your model is incomplete because it doesn’t create flow in the subtle nadi’s, ie. the side channels and the central channel, it doesn’t activate chakras, it doesn’t build dantians, it seems mind based as opposed to subtle body based. My end point is direct seeing, resting upon one’s subtle body reality, of measurable, ascertainable things, within all levels of the body.

I think the images that are used in dreams are very much based on conditioning and experience, but the plot of dreams is the objective part, I have found that dreams mirror the state of our psyche, subtle body and physical body without our subjective sense of our selves interfering. For instance ten people see a movie about a boat, a few of them have a dream of a boat, and all of those write it off as just the movie affecting them. But in each dream the boat does something different, one boat sinks, one loses its steering, one is moved by waves running parallel to the shore, one is speeding along a river. I see dreams as an incredible resource, but they come without an operators manual, at this point I think some of us are trying to write that manual. I’ve been at it for forty years so far, and I’ve found it to be a fascinating journey into all the levels of me. The objective reality I’m referring to is this objective mirror, the dream plot is delivered to my conscious mind without interference from my conscious mind. This is the most objective I can be about the nature of my own reality, which is what I’ve chosen to examine.

Neigh, neigh, surely not.

I´m used to it though. Some Bums are always trying to cause a stirrup.

Being mindful of the climate crisis we should show the field as being underwater . Now ; everyone that wasnt here before , please list all the changes you think need to be done after the image is decided and posted . below , thankyou .

I think we're always looking for the next, the better, the more efficient, the best. Some techniques may seem useless or a slog for a very long time and then one day they open up. I think if you have found a qigong from a teacher you trust, then it would be better to practice that in the long run than drift from practice to practice (like many of us do/have done).

Thanks for the effort to make this happen. We have a good Fire Horse In Maybe it isn't perfect but in any case it really reflect the spirit of 2026-2027 until the Fire Goat arrives. I also like how energy is depicted since the yellowish tone will set up the children years that mother Fire will create (Earth Monkey and Rooster, 2028 & 2029-2030). Happy Heart-Pericardium 2026.

One

Three

Cool ! I used to make up (on the spot) a lot of kids stories , when I had a lot to do with kids ( and during 'the age of stories , before they became 'electronic screen addicts ' ) - but I would like to put a twist on them and break the old archetype ( like a young girl finds her dreams come true ... without the prince that has to 'save her' . So I made my dragon story - a female dragon . By the way , you know how dragons are said to guard treasure ... or have treasure , did you know how they get that treasure ? Up in the tops of the craggy high mountains where they nest, they scrape out molds in the rocks with their claws . They dig out other rocks and blast them with their fiery breath to extract the precious metals and pour them, liquid, into the molds . When they dig out rocks they sometimes find gems and they cut these with their teeth by carefully biting them on different angles and polishing them on their rough skin . Then they set them in the metal shapes they have made ; rings, chalices, crowns, bangles and store them in their cave . Dont try to steal them ... she will get very very angry ! ... how a dragon takes a bath ; She splashes around a bit in the lava , being mindful to do behind her ears and neck , then while glowing hot , she plummets from the mountain top through the sky like a burning meteor into the ocean far below . There in the beach side waves she turns and rolls and the hissing water and steam thoroughly finish the job . She emerges even more shiny and burnished and bright ( and might even do a little Samba along the beach (if no one is watching ) ... just because that feels good .

@liminal_luke Well that proves it then, Chinese astrology is hogwash. @ChiDragon no worries, no hurry. The horse will get extra time next year this time. Seriously, work done by volunteers must not be hurried along but appreciated. Thanks Luke.

Say what you like about astrological omens, but I guess I´m just not that fired up.

There’s no need to apologize but I think that people who read the threads benefit from being able to follow the conversation. If you delete posts it makes it very hard to follow what’s going on and also less interesting/ enjoyable. Perhaps if you post something and later change your mind, you could self quote the post and make a comment/ correction.

To find some balance and sanity in this crazy world we live in.

Yes, many modern people do not realize that is Qigong(氣功).

This is actually a very important point you make, Bob... thanks. Part of what is realized and then forever available to be seen is precisely this breakdown of our idea about time happening along some sort of continuum.

If a practice leads to feeling ungrounded despite doing grounding exercises then the grounded exercises don't work or you're doing them wrong. When energy rises to the head then it means you are in fight or flight or are you too much mental focus. Practices should NOT interfere with sleep. That is bad, as you yourself have seen. With regards to energetic phenomena there can be positive and negative experiences, it is best to ask your teacher. Always be mindful of your own health as well, not all teachers are wise, kind or helpful. Too much chi in the head is usually a bad thing unless it is a specific lineage that works with it. Here is a copy of a message i sent to someone else with grounding issues: Because of this i have a good amount of ways to bring the energy down which you could try. 1. Food, lack of food causes a stress state, a stress state influences any chi that is in the system negatively; so making sure you are eating enough is important. Red meat, potatoes, rice, bread, lots of good vegetables, heavy food is better as it directs chi down to the stomach. 2. Chi goes where it is required, meaning if you spend 8hrs a day on a computer your chi will rise to your head due to the activity of the brain. With this in mind it is better to do activities that are more physical, i know you said in your post that you get pains in your joints, so you should tailor the physical exercise to meet your needs. Maybe swimming or low impact walking, even cycling if that doesn't cause any issues. Could you do deep earth pulsing in a stream or lake ? to mitigate the friction build up. 3. Some other things that might be worthwhile would be: learning how to sink the chi (hard but probably the most useful), walking barefoot on grass, doing prostrations on the earth without a mat (forehead to the earth) preferably someplace private, Hakuin's butter meditation, not sitting for too long, sleeping before 10pm if possible, waking up naturally with the sun, sitting in a deep squat for extended periods of time, minimal intellectual activities, gardening.

Anonymous internet intercourse is always tricky... don't ya think?

I'd love to have that job. Crocolepardoppotomizing them nine to five. There used to be laws of this kind in every culture. Eyeglasses makers guilds in Florence and Venice expelled their members with a lifelong ban on the profession if they were caught making lenses out of glass instead of quartz crystals (which actually helped treat eye disorders instead of merely serving as crutches for the eyes.) Today they're plastic...

The synchronicity of the DaoBums provides... a brief description of working with the tsa, lung, and thigles in the Bön tradition, recently posted on FB by a young practitioner from Menri monastery in Himachal Pradesh for any curious -

I've experimented with making some African staples, notably injera, a kind of gluten-free bread. Need to revisit that, thanks for the reminder. Some authentic recipes use something like 40 various spices (a waitress in an Ethiopian restaurant proudly told me once while serving a fragrant and delicious goat meat stew. That restaurant is long gone of course...)

Hi Steve, Sorry to interfere with your conversation with Bindi but I feel like comenting on what you have written with an example of a dream. I remember buying my first DDJ in my 20's in a time of my life of great confusion. After giving it some 5 minutes of attention I simply quit and put it on a shelf untouched for the next 2 years. The thing was too obscure for me I was expecting clear instructions about a healthy Chinese way of living. By that time don't know if before or after buying the book I had a dream where I was riding a blue ox that was taking me to "soul-land". The dream left a strong impression on me altough I couldn't grasp its meaning. Two years after having bought the DDJ I finally gave it the attention it needs and found it an amazing book of wisdom. Still, it must have taken me some 5 more years before understanding the symbology in that dream. Just my experience... Don't think that Bindi is defending that all dreams are untouched by our conditioning but a few in fact seem to be.

You take a leap of faith assuming that Laitg himself has the capabilities he claims. Put a claim to the test, the classic is ‘appear in my lounge room’ for people who claim special talents. But other tests might be better. Why would anyone just believe a claim without it being substantiated, unless you’re buying a bridge for sale?