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Also I doubt he is native Chinese. Native Chinese don't wear British boots

I suggest you read more. All schools are so different. e.g. not all use LDT.

Hi! The ttc is super hard to translate because of all of the metaphorical language, in this particular case you're running into a common beginners trap But yes absolutely, if you can't read ancient Chinese you are reading something that is fundamentally altered you are correct about that You should learn how people that have studied the text in the native language understand it, if you don't learn how to read it that way yourself You have to keep in mind that you cant systemize taoism the same way western philosophies are systemized and follow it as a logic flow chart (he says it cant be described but then he describes it) Whatever pre-existing framework you have in mind, to really understand the ttc you have to completely tear that down It doesn't fit into anything else, it doesn't even really fit into itself Laozi says that the tao cannot be attached to or described as any single thing because the tao is both thing and no thing When you use a noun in any language, you pin it down as thing and he is explicitly telling you about something that is thing and no thing, he is however conveying a practicable and and at least partially comprehensible concept even if it also means the opposite of that concept, otherwise he just wouldn't have written the book He later describes non-dual activity and following innate nature as a suggestion to return to the course of tao, it isn't contradictory to say that there are temporary prescriptions to return to the original course of nature as long as those prescriptions are eventually discarded (If you're worried about Thus, sages rule by emptying people's hearts (keep them ignorant), filling their bellies, weakening their ambitions, and strengthening their bones. Let people ignorant and lack desire, It's more about saying that a ruler should take care of the needs of its citizens and encourage them to lead humble and peaceful lives without feeling the need to suffer and exploit their fellow humans It isn't talking about the modern concept of the government intentionally dumbing its citizens down to make them easier to control Ancient chinese is very blunt, gotta keep that in mind) This is part of why taoist literature is so tricky haha As a side note, careful with the AI usage in philosophy. It's excellent for resource gathering but if you express an idea to it it'll always agree with you and find a reason why you're correct to keep you using it instead of being a steady hand ready to correct you which is what people really need I say that as someone who uses AI quite frequently as a tool

This picture clearly shows the end goal of a true ATPaoist, arms and legs gotten rid off for better aerodynamics. The tap in the lower half of the picture is where the ATPaoist ties a knot before taking his final deep breath, expanding like a balloon and ascends to the divine.

Can't believe the amount of times i've mentioned the Yi Jin Jing in the past 24 hours, but here we are again.... Muscles are not very conductive to qi..... the fact that you only feel energy there and it's a "tremendous energy", i don't consider a positive sign. I think whatever your practice is, you need to slow down, go back to the very basics and slowly move your attention from within, outwards and ensure there isn't any problems... Maybe get into your wuji stance and get everything relaxed, ensuring there's no feeling of strain or contracted/closed off muscles and methodically check your body with your attention.

Me: “Please bring me a screwdriver.” Wife: “Flat head, Phillips, or vodka?” And that was when I knew she was the one -- Derek Pharr

Happy shortest day everyone!

On March 18, 1314, Jacques de Molay and a few other Templars, after enduring torture and many other humiliations, were sent to death. De Molay was an old man, tired with life and proud of his achievements. He knew that the tragedy which touched his brothers and himself was the result of schemes. He was also aware that the king of France had decided to torture and finally execute innocent people - the loyal knights of France. Thus, when he was dying he cursed everyone who recommended his murder. The Templar Order, also known as the Knights Templar, Templars or the Order of Solomon's Temple, existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages. Their story began around 1129, when they became a favored charity throughout Christendom. They grew fast, as many wanted to join the group of knights with the distinctive white mantles decorated with the red cross. They were very skillful fighters during the Crusades and had innovative financial techniques, which became an early form of modern banking. The Templars were also great builders of fortifications in Europe and the Holy Land. The Last Grand Master of the Templar Order Jacques de Molay was born c. 1243 AD. He was the 23rd and the last Grand Master of the order of the Knights Templar. He ruled the Order from April 20, 1292 and was its great reformer. There are many more and less real stories about him, but there is little certain information about his roots and life. One legend says that during his travel through the Camino de Santiago in the late 13th century he left his sword in the castle Ponteferrada in Spain. Greed and Decline: The Treasure of the Knights Templar and Their Downfall Mystery of the Knights Templars: Protectors or Treasure Hunters on a Secret Mission? The Origin of the Knights Templar – Descendants of Jewish Elders? As mentioned, the Templars fought in the crusades, which brought them lots of money. De Molay also spent lots of time in the Middle East, and finally he became the head of the Order. Ordination of Jacques de Molay in 1265 as a Knight Templar, at the Beaune commandery. Painting by Marius Granet (1777-1849) (Public Domain) By that time the Templars were famous for having a legendary treasure. The royals and nobles of Europe believed that they were very wealthy and some even thought that during the visit to the Middle East the Templars had rediscovered the treasure of King Solomon and took it for themselves. Listening to these rumors, the king of France, Philip IV, decided to borrow money from the Order, believing he could do so without limits. The Templars were good in money management, but when they lent it to someone, they expected to receive repayment. That was the beginning of the end for the Templars - Philip IV of France didn't mean to pay back his deep debt to the Order. In place of giving the money back to the Templars, he decided to take advantage of the situation. He asked for the support of pope Clement V, and in 1307 many members of the Order were arrested in France. The nightmare of the tortures to receive false confessions proving that the Templars collaborated with the devil began. De Molay was also dissolved of his duties by the order of Pope Clement V in 1307. The Execution of the Templars Due to the orders of Philip IV, the tortures on the Templars were completed in the most terrifying ways known. One by one, the men tortured by the Medieval Inquisition, gave false confessions to stop their suffering. Nonetheless, the brave Grand Master retracted his confession and Philip decided to burn him on the island in from of the cathedral of Notre Dame de Paris. Jacques de Molay sentenced to the stake in 1314, from the Chronicle of France or of St Denis. (Public Domain) After seven long years, Jacques de Molay ended the daily pain of tortures and the Cardinals agreed upon the death sentence for him. According to the eyewitnesses of the execution, de Molay showed no sign of fear, and he tried to not show pain during his slow death on the burning stake. Most of the pyres were prepared in such a way that the victims would die quickly. However, in the case of De Molay, they prepared a pyre which would burn slowly. Before he died, he made his voice heard loudly once more. The results of the speech may have led the king and the Cardinals to regret not allowing him to die within a few minutes, like the other Knights. A Curse Which Scared All of Europe While burning on the pyre, De Molay cursed King Philip IV of France, his descendants, Pope Clement V, and everyone else who supported his death. De Molay said that within a year and a day, Clement V and Philip IV would die. He also said Philip's bloodline would reign in France no more. Templars burned at the stake. (Public Domain) It happened as De Molay wished for, and death came for Clement first. He lost a battle with a damaging disease on April 20, 1314. Shortly after the Pope, Philip died of a stroke while hunting. A tragic death was also the destiny for all of Philip’s successors. Between 1314 and 1328 all three sons and grandsons of the French king died. Within fourteen years from the death of De Molay the House of Caped no longer existed - after it had stood for 300 years. Portrait of Pope Clement V, Avignon, France. (Public Domain) Was the curse by De Molay real? Or did his Knights accomplish the revenge of the Grand Master? The story of the last Grand Master and his horrible curse became a shock in all of the European courts. It also ruined the politics of France because some of the rulers were afraid of collaboration with the cursed royal family. Secrets of the Knights Templar: The Knights of John the Baptist The Grail Cypher: A radical reassessment of Arthurian history The Truth About the Holy Grail: Magical Chalices Around the World Inspiration By the Curse This story became a main topic of the famous series of historical novels by Maurice Druon (The Accursed Kings). The books were published in the years 1955 and 1977, and depict the reality of the times of De Molay. They were also adapted into several movies and television miniseries. In September 2001, Barbara Frale, an Italian Paleographer at the Vatican Secret Archives discovered a document known as the Chinon Parchment. It claims that in 1308 Pope Clement V absolved Jacques De Molay and the rest of the leadership of the Knights Templar from charges brought against the Inquisition. Six years later, the Vatican published the document as a limited edition of 800 copies. In June 2011, Pope Benedict XVI apologized for the killing of De Molay and acknowledged that he was a victim of false accusations. Centuries after the tragedy took place, the Vatican admitted that the pope had supported the murders, although the Templars weren't guilty. https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/curse-jacques-de-molay-templars-005431 This could be one of the best examples of curses being legit things. Summary: 1. A pope and king brought false charges against the knights templar as an excuse to seize their wealth. 2. Knights templar were tortured to extract confessions to said false charges. 3. Knights templar were burned at the stake. 4. While the leader of the Knights Templar was being burned alive he said those responsible would get what they deserve. 5. Within a year both the pope and the king were dead. From an energetic and qi perspective, what might have happened here? Is this curse real? What do people think?

someone else's shoes are on my feet; they look good, I think I'll keep them

100% wrong.

Maurice Druon, The Accursed Kings historical novels -- read them all as a teenager. For a while they made me an expert in medieval French history. I remember little by now, but I did remember the story of Jacques de Molay and was under the impression, for many years, that the curse concerned not just the Capetian dynasty but all of Europe. I don't remember why I interpreted it this way, but there you have it. The dynasty that went a long time before that one, the Merovingians, I find particularly interesting. In their heyday they established the largest kingdom in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman empire (if there really was such a thing as "the fall" -- to me it seems more like the refurbishing/recalibration). What I find special about them is that to this day, chronicles exist that officially derive their genealogy from a sea monster, a “quinotaur,” who had a relationship with the ancestress and produced Meroveh, the founder of the dynasty. This gave the dynasty sacral pre-Christian legitimacy—a ruler whose authority comes from the sea/chaos/the Other. (Just like Chinese emperors who derive their Mandate to rule from the dragon. Chinese dragons spend the first one thousand years as water creatures, then develop flight and take to the sky, the mountains, and the imperial court, as the case may be.)

It's a compulsion really.... i hear foundation and qi, i just throw the Yi Jin Jing at them and yell HUANG before running away. Thank you for the share The reason i use Huang is exactly the reason that was discussed earlier about the word qi is better being left untranslated.

At least we can say one thing, his ideas are not coherent at all but maybe he's having fun trashing these topics.

ATP leakage - new daoist term!

Happy longest night!

So according to your concept your shen does not exist. ATPDragon

So with this very limited experience we are expected to trust what you say about neidan?

I’m talking about “zhen qi” 真气

Well I may have misremembered it cos I watched it in the 70’s. The presenters name was Henry Lincoln and he co-authored “the holy blood and the holy grail’ or some such which was a best seller back in the day.

Yes, I figured that there was something hidden in the username. Without any explanation, I see 性命雙修 is taken place in your daily life. What a coincidence, Wu Wei helps me to do the same. So far it eased my heart from a lot of burden, improved my health, clarified my mind, pacified internal conflicts, harmonized my human relationships...all this is very real for sure. You've said it all. The mutual resonance on our part 可算得是知己知彼. No wonder the friendly gesture is unavoidable.

It is a reminder to myself to strive to live by this way. So far it eased my heart from a lot of burden, improved my health, clarified my mind, pacified internal conflicts, harmonized my human relationships...all this is very real, so i can say that the principles of dynamic equilibrium applied to individual psychosomatic system and very ordinary daily life activities and interactions have great meaning and value.

I was just recalling an old TV series called the Blood and the Grail where the presenter referred to king Dagobert as the hairy kings. It has always stuck in my mind - the series ‘inspired’ Dan Browns Da Vinci Code (in other words he ripped it off from them).

The part you said "It's excellent for resource gathering" that I agree. " but if you express an idea to it it'll always agree with you" I may not see this is a valid statement.

They weren't hairy, they were long-haired! The belief existed that cutting their hair rendered them powerless. Just like Samson. Native Americans were of the same opinion. The Chinese, ditto -- until the Manchurians forced them to shave the front of the head (but the rest was worn as long as it grows, and braided. And that also had to go with westernization in the 20th century -- for men first, and then Communists convinced women to cut their hair as well.)

Yes, there is an exception here. We have Taoist police. 🤫

I was joking, i couldn't care less about the taoist police.

Banger music choice though ;D

TY I expected that you won't be here long. I was just about going to ask you. Have you given up yet?😂 PS I will be missing you, my friend.

The hairy kings who carried the blood line of Christ!

I think the biggest problem is no one agrees on what is authoritative. Some think generative AI, some use internal school documents, and very few refer to anything common or verifiable. People say neidan, but they don't say which school, or commentary, or cite a source.

(I say this not to argue for the sake of it but to hopefully help you out as you seem to be a bit confused) The question is, which logic must reality be bound by? Laozi and daoism as a whole follows the logic of the trees and birds The idea is that logic doesn't bind anything, if you realize an inconsistency, then its the logic that you've created which is incorrect, the birds and trees will not stop existing Logic in daoism doesn't bind reality, but nature binds logic Everything created naturally brings its opposite into existence, you can say the creator is dao, dao must then contain dao and not dao or it isn't the one you claim is the prime creator Daoist metaphysics are not binary, they are non-dual and are fundamentally incompatible with the philosophy you describe That isn't to say you can't learn something or use it to expand your horizons, but you will always disagree with it fundamentally unless the presumption of a binary reality is abandoned These aren't errors or things that laozi or other eastern philosophers weren't exposed to, these philosophers explicitly reject scientific rationalism

Thank you! And taiji brother/sister it is then 🙂 No “creativity” in the sense of modifying the traditional training or inventing methods, I really can't imagine how the practice could be improved/refined. Where there is some originality is simply in how I articulate my own understanding of what the training has done to my body over time. If that way of framing things happens to help others make sense of their experience too, that’s a bonus. Different language, same work. Hopefully still very much the same cup of qi 😄

In modern term, it is more easy to be comprehensive It is interesting that 身气神 are used here instead of 精气神. 这句话出自《淮南子·原道训》，是道家思想中关于身、气、神三者关系的经典论述。它通过类比政治秩序，阐述了生命健康的根本在于“各司其职”。 以下是为您整理的详细解读： 1. 核心字词翻译 形（形体）： 指肉体躯壳，是生命的载体（“生之所”）。 气（元气）： 指维持生命的能量和动力，是生命的根本（“生之元”）。 神（精神/灵魂）： 指心智、主宰，是生命的统帅和控制者（“生之制”）。 位/职： 它们各自应当处于的位置和担负的功能。 相干： 互相干扰、互相僭越 2. 现代文意译 这段话的意思是： “人的形体是生命的寄托处，元气是生命的本源，精神是生命的统帅。如果其中任何一个失去了它应有的位置，那么形、气、神三者都会受到伤害。因此，懂得养生之道的人（圣人）会使这三者各就其位，各守其职，互不干扰。”

There are others enlightened by chatbots. I haven't seen anything interesting come from someone using large language models in these topics. Random books, Reddit and other forums that chatbots use to make up their ideas are rarely high quality even on their own and a chatbot is mixing all kinds of posts together.

This is the picture from authentic daoist text. How it can be manipulation? There can be people who can't understand it. Then you have to read text and at least try to understand it. Believe me no one from any sect would show up here and disclose all "insiders" secrets. At least you can see to what part the character 命 is applied. So 命 cant mean just BODY as ChiDragon states. If he understands the language for him it is easier to get it at least on mental level but I am afraid...

This is pure manipulation on your part. I will put it like that - I wont use any language but the picture from quite authentic daoist text I am not sure what is your goal to be here. So you say it is all about BODY and ATP? Seriously

It was just the idea of Wu Wei(無為) has not been caught up with the world yet.

I did do chapter one, it was in my original post!

I only said your translation was not in accordance with Daoist definition of 命 That' the matter In this case this thread must be moved to "Fitness and Calisthenics" subforum

This is very simplified and incorrect understanding of the original text.

Yes, it really resonated with me. Every word seems pinching my heart. Thank you for sharing. I really appreciated and enjoy reading it. _/\_

Laotze didn’t make up the existence of Tao. He gave his commentary on the nature of Tao.

welcome

I suppose , as time goes on, we will be seeing more of this .

Normally when possums are asleep ( on the shelf above my bed ) they tuck their legs under , head in and appear like a furry ball . When its hot though ... everything is reversed

Welcome to the TDB. I see that you talk like a Taoist already. We would like to hear more from you! Sorry, your statement is so profound, I need a translator for comprehension.

I have often wondered if humans are purely decorative

Welcome!

Maybe I had big pharma all wrong,,,,

@Nungali This song was probably written by one of those former little catholic kids -- just the way they heard it. I think it's brilliant, phonetically and poetically.