Weather Magick

[Taomeow]

13 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

I don’t want to get into a “who really is a Daoist” debate- all I want to say is that, historically, in Daoism, magic, spirit invocation, etc is not marginal and was in fact central for some very important Daoist movements.

 

It is also the case today.   Just not so much in mainland China anymore.    

 

And the debate about who really is a taoist is, to me, settled.  To nobody's satisfaction I suspect.  

 

If it quacks like a duck it's not necessarily a duck.  It can be a CCP-approved cleared for release duck quack recording.

 

But if it also swims, dives, walks, flies, lays eggs like a duck...  I say it's a duck.     

[manitou]

And how can wu wei not be magical?

 

All I know is that I found the DDJ at a yard sale, fell in love with it, compared multiple translations since then, and joined TDB's.  This forum has been crucial in my own metaphysical development, the crowning of which is knowing when I should let the universe take over.  (wu wei).  

 

To do the sorcery of wu wei,  it must be done from a place of no-ego.  It's the development of the no-ego aspect is what takes a long time.  This is why I believe the real magic is curtailed by ego.  It's fine to be a good showman with the accoutrements, but best done without identifying with the trappings.

 

Hmmm.  I wonder if that's why it's called 'trappings?'  They can be, easily.

[SirPalomides]

18 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

It is also the case today.   Just not so much in mainland China anymore.    

 

And the debate about who really is a taoist is, to me, settled.  To nobody's satisfaction I suspect.  

 

If it quacks like a duck it's not necessarily a duck.  It can be a CCP-approved cleared for release duck quack recording.

 

But if it also swims, dives, walks, flies, lays eggs like a duck...  I say it's a duck.     

My mom (who was overseas Chinese) when I said I was interested in Daoism said, “Daoism is so morbid. All they do is exorcisms and funerals.” Obviously this isn’t what Daoism is all about but it does say something about how the magic stuff is perceived as part of what defines Daoism. You can also see this in popular films like A Chinese Ghost Story and Mr Vampire where Daoist priests appear as wizards and exorcists. 
 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by SirPalomides

[flowing hands]

5 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Nope. "Dao" is not Daoism, otherwise Confucians, Legalists, Buddhists, and others are all Daoists too.

 

Actually, to be precise Daoism, Daoist are English words. In Chinese It is a single character that can be added to others to make a different meaning. Dao was understood and known about for thousands of years before FuXI, Huang Di etc. For instance humans noticed that the bending of a branch had properties that could harness the force of nature and so the bow and arrow was invented some 60,00-75,000 years ago. Such observations about energy that existed in nature became a fascination to people. They observed animals and plants and so it was conceived that there was something greater and wiser behind everything. Sensitive people observed that life seemed to have something more than just material. So shamans evolved and became part of virtually every culture around the world. Now shamans are seen as 'wise', so the first drawings of wise people were that of shamans walking along a path knowing the way nature worked and the forces behind it. So we get the first meaning of 'Dao'. Anyone who walked that path and shared in that wisdom pursued Dao. People revered Dao because it mean't they could eat and survive better. Religious Dao came a lot later with the practices of Immortality and calling up Immortals.

Edited February 21, 2020 by flowing hands
expand on point

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I love Chinese Ghost story, it is one of my favorite films, and that particular sequence one of my favorites in the movie.  I saw it in a theater back in the late 80s, and actually have the DVDs for its two sequels also.  I don't want to go on and on about it though, even if there are some interesting points in it and the sequels.

 

ZYD

[ReturnDragon]

7 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Nope. "Dao" is not Daoism, otherwise Confucians, Legalists, Buddhists, and others are all Daoists too.

道
It was used as the principle of morality by Confucius. 
Later, then, Loazi comes along and defined all the natural things in the universe as Tao. 
People should distinguish the two dao's.
 

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

Actually, to be precise Daoism, Daoist are English words. In Chinese It is a single character that can be added to others to make a different meaning

Yes, you quite right. Thanks!
道教 is a Taoist religious sect. They worship many gods.
道人 or 士 is a Taoist.

道德 :
In Confucian, it is the virtue of morality, such as human behavior.

道德 :
In Laozi, it is the virtue of Wuwei. A person who follows the principles of nature.


Sorry, don't know how to remove the extra quote!

7 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Nope. "Dao" is not Daoism, otherwise Confucians, Legalists, Buddhists, and others are all Daoists too.

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[SirPalomides]

1 hour ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

I love Chinese Ghost story, it is one of my favorite films, and that particular sequence one of my favorites in the movie.  I saw it in a theater back in the late 80s, and actually have the DVDs for its two sequels also.  I don't want to go on and on about it though, even if there are some interesting points in it and the sequels.

 

ZYD

I’ll start a Daoism in popular culture thread later

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

Hi, I hope you got my PM earlier about the Occult forums.

 

yes, thanks .  I had a look through them a bit  ....... oh dear   .   

 

Oh well, such is the way of the world, nowadays  .... and the internet .

 

 

3 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

Funny that you bring up Voodoo, one of my close friends is deep into the Voodoo system and would know a lot more about it than me but yes you are right. Some traditions are against possession, others embrace it fully.

 

In the version I did one could ask for 'possession' or 'communication'  (and they used a type of 'chakra system'  activation to achieve one or the other ) . I opted for communication as I  wanted to drum for the ceremony , which I had not done before and wanted to learn the rhythms .     Great stuff !

 

eg 1 :50

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I like the idea of creating a sphere that goes through the ground. I may just try that for my own practice. 

 

 WHAAAAT  !   You haven't been doing that  !   

 

You need to be aware of  .....

 

Spoiler

 .....  my  bad sense of humour     

 

 

3 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I view invocation as calling a spirit to come forward  ...

 

Where is it 'coming forward'  from ?

 

 

3 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

.... surrendering your own self-control Its power inhabits you but its consciousness does it. Those who invoke tend to invite the spirit to enter their bodies but they have strict rules and limitations regarding the procedure. Only a "part" of the spirit is allowed to use your body as its temporary home. You retain full control over your physical body, thoughts, and behavior whereas with a full-blown possession, once it happens you have no control because the spirit overrides you completely. You aren't even aware of anything as the spirit has hijacked your entire state of being, this is why people speak in different voices and appear to go crazy. With possession, you get the spirits voice, personality, history and other baggage. With an invocation, you should never lose control of yourself. 

 

The downside to invocation is this: The practice is far more gentle than people think. Unless you are gifted and naturally attuned, most people agree that typical invocations don't accomplish much. It takes many workings to make a good difference whereas one experience of possession could be life-changing or life-destroying, depending on the outcome. Invocations are much safer but more drawn out. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out! 

 

In light of what you said above , I am sure  you will find those links interesting  .

[Walker]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:21 AM, Lord Josh Allen said:

Yes. That's right, hundreds of people have contacted me over a period of about 10 years and shared personal stories and experiences with the voices, dreams, visions that they have had in relation to Kongming. I could (possibly) gather some of these people together and ask them to sign up on the forum so you could hear it straight from them.

 

 "That's right?"

 

Okay.

 

Well, since you have downgraded "met" to "received emails from," I am going to go ahead and downgrade "hundreds" to "perhaps a couple dozen." 

 

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Hi again! Where did I say I was the chosen one exactly? Could you link a video or a post where I said those words in regard to Taoism? Or are you saying I said that through implication?

 

Your "How I Became a Taoist" video absolutely states that Zhuge Liang chose you. You fainted, voices started speaking to you and instructing you. This is an "I was chosen" story.

 

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If so, that is only your interpretation of my words, it is not so. I think you are misunderstanding a lot of my videos.

 

I only watched one I have mentioned, and this short one of you supposedly doing weather magic:

 

Spoiler

 

 

But which looks playing cheap tricks with video editing. 

 

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My relationship with Kongming did not grant me magical powers, it granted me the motivation and inspiration to seek out books to learn those magical skills. Inspiration is what is needed to find good information and engage in learning. Before my spiritual awakening, I didn't have any ambition or drive to pursue such things. I say time after time, I'm not talented, gifted or powerful but I am dedicated and motivated. Kongming gave me that fuel to begin my esoteric education. He didn't grant me anything but a desire and a hunger for spirituality. May I ask, where do you get your motivation? See my video here for when I say "I am NOT a Taoist Master, I am NOT a priest" Timestamp at 11:19 

 

If you took the time to seek out and ask actual Daoists, I predict you would find that what you experienced would not be referred to as a "spiritual awakening" or anything that would translate into any Chinese words with similar meaning. Establishing communication with any disembodied voice in Daoism--including that of an actual immortal--neither qualifies as an awakening nor even evidence any change in the quality of your shen. 

 

It is not just that you are not a Daoist master or priest... You simply have yet to receive a basic education in Daoism that you would get from an actual teacher. If you had, you would speak differently.

 

It may seem like I say this solely to criticize you, but I actually hope it will cause you to pause, reflect, and possibly use your evidently considerable material resources to set out upon a path that actually enables you to encounter real teachers.

 

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Why would I need books, tools, robes and elaborate altars if I was "given" magical powers? I need those tools because, as I say in my video, "I'm not magically inclined" I wasn't born with extrasensory abilities, I wasn't a natural sorcerer from birth who could easily tap into the hidden realms. I had to LEARN and WORK on those things. Learning and working without inspiration is a drag, the impossible becomes easy when you feel inspired. I had to get it from somewhere, it came from Kongming.

 

I do not believe that whatever you talk to gave you magic powers. Nevertheless, even if you still had to work hard at whatever you're doing, you still present yourself as chosen by an immortal to carry out some mission on earth. 

 

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The deal we made was largely out of my control, I had blackouts as you know, I passed out and heard voices, I was placed in the situation whether I liked it or not and had little to no control over these out of body experiences. The deal had been done and I had to accept it and eventually grow to love it.

 

Again, the circumstances of this experience sound worryingly like something other than what you have concluded they are. And again, those who have been exposed to the actual living tradition of Daoism tend to have heard reasons for why that would be and the corresponding warnings. I already typed them up in this thread, no need to repeat them all. 

 

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It is inevitable one day that I will find a Master or a teacher who is willing to teach me about weather magick or Kongming. But right now, I'm honestly not looking, I feel fulfilled enough and my practices (internal Weathermancy) are working to a satisfactory level. Could it be better? Of course but its a work in progress, its a journey not a destination. I'm better now than I was last year, I'm happy with this steady progress. You might wonder, how do you know if it is working? Well, I judge it based on how I feel. Since most of my magick is internal and based on my emotional state, I analyze and log all of my experiences in my many grimoires.

 

I believe it is possible your magic works as you say it does. I believe you may have learned many things from Jerry Alan Johnson's books, which evidently draw from Daoist sources.

 

But you have not apprenticed to a Daoist master, and as you admit freely in this thread you rely upon your gleanings from "left hand" message boards with no relationship to Daoism and other traditions to make your interpretations of Johnson's books work. So, again, you are playing with things you don't understand. Using YouTube as a platform to spread your idea of what Daoism is to the naive may carry unfortunate consequences for you and those you could mislead. 

 

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As for worldly achievements, I totally disagree. It is important for men to want to achieve greatness or at least attempt to. I'll give you an example of an ambitious Taoist. Zhang Jiao, a Taoist leader led a peasant uprising against the Han imperial throne, he has solidified himself in the history books as a Taoist man of action. Should you conform to the typical Taoist stereotype just because you are expected to? Absolutely not.

 

I don't know what the typical Daoist stereotype is. But Daoism does not teach that men should attempt to achieve worldly greatness. If they do, so be it. If they do not, so be it. Pursuing, striving, ambition... All of these things are warned against. If you find a teacher who transmits these teachings to you, they will not only say that, they will explain why that is, and what the mechanisms underlying these warnings are, and how those mechanisms affect cultivation. 

 

Find a teacher.

 

Quote

I was instructed by Kongming to follow a Taoist path, yes. I was told by him that I could refer to myself as a Taoist. I might as well ask upfront, are you offended when I call myself a Taoist? If so, why? If it offends, disturbs or bothers you, ask yourself "how does it affect me and my life" I want you to tell me why it affects you in a personal way. Give it some thought and you will find a comforting answer, it doesn't! Did I ever claim I was a priest? No. Did I ever claim I was ordained or appointed? Nope. Did I ever claim to belong to any sect, group or lineage? No. I'm not interested in these persuits, I am a ritual magician who follows a Taoist path. To be more precise, I am what you would call a "Taoist Weather Magician" You can't get much more specific than that! I hold no rank or title within Taoism nor do I claim to.

 

I don't know if offended is quite the right word, but I'll accept it and explain. I am deeply concerned about your promoting what I have explained is a highly problematic interpretation of the events in your life as "Daoism." You have chosen a very public platform and a very ostentatious showing off of powers. You may well confuse people and indeed harm them. As a person who has benefited from extensive exposure to living Daoist lineages and well understands that the most important teachings tend to remain secret and, whether or not they are secret, need to be transmitted from master to disciple, I have seen more than enough to know that what you are doing is dangerous. 

 

Even your disclaimer here, "I am a ritual magician who follows a Taoist path," is not really honest. You have adapted some things from the books written by Jerry Alan Johnson, who you have not met, and seemingly combined them with other things that don't even claim to have Daoist origins.

 

I have seen it written on this forum that studying in English with Jerry Alan Johnson himself is a seven year curriculum. As I explained here, native Chinese speaker Quanzhen Daoists who with to become ritual masters traditionally trained for ten or more years. In Daoism, what you are claiming to be is not a self-appointed title one can get after playing with books on one's own.

 

On 2/20/2020 at 1:30 AM, Lord Josh Allen said:

One thing that has surprised me with this forum wasn't people's reactions to me as a person but the lack of ritualistic Occultism. I half expected this site to be similar to BALG, a forum on ceremonial high magick which places great emphasis on tools, robes, technicalities, spoken incantations, making pacts with spirits, etc. This forum seems more a place for martial arts, philosophy, and meditation and less of a place for candle magick, altar setups, manifestations via ritual, sympathetic magick, etc. I'm not saying this as a negative, just an observation. I know proper Occult forums are niche and Taoist Occult forums are very niche. 

 

Daoism is already a very secretive tradition, but there is somewhat more openness about the basics of "inner alchemy" than magic, because the former became part of a wider "curriculum" for self cultivation and "salvation" that was not necessarily limited to daoshi/daozhang at times during history, whereas ritual magic has really remained the purview of ritual masters. I have met and had a few discussions with ritual masters and their students. To be certain they maintain a huge amount of secrecy, have to do an extraordinary amount of learning, and are generally not easy people to get information out of. They even purposely hand transcribe manuals out of order so that if they fall into the wrong hands they will not be usable (I have seen these). One master I knew took most of his ritual knowledge to the grave with him because he never found an appropriate disciple in his life.

 

I have no idea what the "Become a Living God" forum is, but given the need for secrecy and years of apprenticeship it should really be no surprise that you won't find open discussions of Daoist magic here on TDB. I doubt more than a handful of westerners have ever truly entered the door of Daoist magic, and in addition to likely being quite busy people, in order to have entered such doors they would have had to show real sincerity and vow to keep almost everything they were told secret from all but their own teachers and disciples. They would not be in much of a position to come here and open the doors to their knowledge. 

 

Look at inner alchemy and its foundational practices--there are people here who can credibly claim to have received transmission in these things, and even they never speak beyond a certain point, keeping the things they have vowed to keep secret out of the public realm. The Daoists I know who are trained in magic are even cagier about what they know than those who pursue inner alchemy. If you want insight into magic, you're going to have to get off of the internet and find a master.  

 

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Deceptive entities and trickster spirits are commonplace for those who practice invocation and evocation. This is why the "ritual chamber" is created. A ritual chamber is a process of filtering out intrusive and unwelcome spirits, to prevent them from showing up during a working. Consider it an invisible forcefield of qi which completely covers the length and width of a room or in my case, an outdoor altar. In the same way, doctors and surgeons make sure all the tools are sterilized to prevent contamination in a theatre room, the chamber sterilizes the room/temple/altar for the magician and it purifies everything. This is essential because residual energy which is left by other spirits during past workings stays around. If you don't practice good "spiritual hygiene" this could lead to possession. 

 

I'm very careful about this. Concluding and closing communication is another important point. When you channel, evoke and invoke, you open up a gateway into another realm for entities to temporarily visit you and speak to you. If you don't properly close it during the conclusion of the ritual, it will cause problems. Sometimes, the aim of a ritual is not to avoid possession but to actually encourage it. This is a major aspect of Left-Hand Path magick and is reserved for the adept. This is NOT safe nor is it something I am recommending but I have tried it many times. There are many methods for this: I'll give you the one I've done before. 

 

Sandwriting: The magician is required to drink a cup of talismanic water which has been charged with the energies of the spirit he or she wants to reach, a Fu talisman is burnt and its ashes are collected into a jade cup. The aim is to contact a spirit, invoke it, let it possess you and allow the spirit to take control of your physical body to become a medium. The magician will usually go into a deep trance and lose track of time. The spirit will use the hands of the person to write messages in the sand. This sand should be fine, white and light in weight. It is common for the magician to sweat profusely whilst this is happening and the eyes are usually shut. When the magician awakens, they will then work to decipher the often cryptic and archaic messages which may be personal in nature. Usually, spirits will tell you things that nobody else, not even you could know. I've done this about a dozen times. 

 

The golden question, is it dangerous? It could be, it is a big risk but it depends on three factors. How competent are you as a magician and as a medium? Experience is key here. What spirit are you trying to contact? Build up a relationship with the spirit and don't rush into a ritual without establishing some groundwork first. Lastly, why are you making contact? Always go in with a reason. If you have no experience, don't do it, if you don't know the spirit, don't do it and if you don't have a concrete reason such as a question that you want answering, don't do it. 

 

You are missing key points in your discussion in the last paragraph. Before anything you discuss in that paragraph, in Daoist magic there is the question of training and authority--receiving a register which gives the practitioner certain authority and the right to perform certain rituals. These things are passed down from master to disciple, ritually, in lineages. Without that, this is still just playing around willy-nilly, inventing your own things with inspiration from books derived from Daoism.

 

You are also missing discussion of the fruits of internal training which make it possible for actual Daoist masters to directly perceive the nature of what they may encounter. Ghost, immortal, buddha, demon--there is no question. But like I said about real gaogong, this is the fruit of a decade or more of intense studying and training. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Walker

[Walker]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:46 AM, silent thunder said:

all roads stem from source

we are none of us, ever separated from source by even a hair's width, for a millisecond... ever.

 

And yet,

 

You are a student of Wang Liping, no? Becoming one is a matter of thousands of US dollars, no? 

 

If I have not remembered incorrectly, then can we say that although everybody in LA is just as close to "the source" as anybody else, you somehow still saw tremendous value in this very specific teacher, and made a large commitment to be able to study with him?

 

Was it worth it? Did this have something to do with the transmission of teachings he received? Could you have gotten what he gave from just anybody in LA? 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Walker

[silent thunder]

3 hours ago, Walker said:

 

And yet,

 

You are a student of Wang Liping, no? Becoming one is a matter of thousands of US dollars, no? 

Yes.  And I expect to attend again when the timing is beneficial and I return to active paxis.

 

3 hours ago, Walker said:

If I have not remembered incorrectly, then can we say that although everybody in LA is just as close to "the source" as anybody else, you somehow still saw tremendous value in this very specific teacher, and made a large commitment to be able to study with him?

From a place of few certainties, i experience the following certainty, unmistakably.  For some time, local awareness (conscious mind) is no longer able to lend gravity to the concept that anyone, or any thing (or non thing) anywhere, is ever appreciably separate from source ever.  Does my considering this so, bother you?  I'm not selling anything here Walker.  I'm just sharing, as authentically as i am able.

 

What possible relevance are any of my activities (meditation or otherwise) on the connectedness of others to source?

 

 

3 hours ago, Walker said:

Was it worth it? Did this have something to do with the transmission of teachings he received? Could you have gotten what he gave from just anybody in LA? 

 

It was well worth it.  I unreservedly and whole heartedly recommend it!

But I do not share the seeming projected notion in your question that this somehow makes me closer to source than anyone who has not chosen, or is unable to do the same.

 

You ok mate?  Your tone is pithy.

 

Master Wang and his teachings... are part of my path.

As is the ravine where my wife and I first encountered the silent thunder.

As is our simple home and my toilet bowl and my stinky work boots.

 

Source is here, now friend.  Living beingness.  Raw awareness unfolding in simple presence...

 

truly... what else is there but source?

No matter what mind thinks into partitions, or hands do, undo... or don't do.

 

Source is here, now... 

at least that's as closely as I can put it for now in words.

As always, these are not my claims of ultimate truth.

These words are how I'm able to share my experiences as authentically as I'm able.

for the record:

I'm not selling nada mate.  Just sharing.

[Walker]

19 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Yes.  And I expect to attend again when the timing is beneficial and I return to active paxis.

 

From a place of few certainties, i experience the following certainty, unmistakably.  For some time, local awareness (conscious mind) is no longer able to lend gravity to the concept that anyone, or any thing (or non thing) anywhere, is ever appreciably separate from source ever.  Does my considering this so, bother you?  I'm not selling anything here Walker.  I'm just sharing, as authentically as i am able.

 

What possible relevance are any of my activities (meditation or otherwise) on the connectedness of others to source?

 

 

It was well worth it.  I unreservedly and whole heartedly recommend it!

But I do not share the seeming projected notion in your question that this somehow makes me closer to source than anyone who has not chosen, or is unable to do the same.

 

You ok mate?  Your tone is pithy.

 

Master Wang and his teachings... are part of my path.

As is the ravine where my wife and I first encountered the silent thunder.

As is our simple home and my toilet bowl and my stinky work boots.

 

Source is here, now friend.  Living beingness.  Raw awareness unfolding in simple presence...

 

truly... what else is there but source?

No matter what mind thinks into partitions, or hands do, undo... or don't do.

 

Source is here, now... 

at least that's as closely as I can put it for now in words.

As always, these are not my claims of ultimate truth.

These words are how I'm able to share my experiences as authentically as I'm able.

for the record:

I'm not selling nada mate.  Just sharing.

 

I didn't think you're selling things. My point is:

 

Despite the fact that we are all equally proximate to "source," the sacrifices you made to study with a certain teacher who was educated by three Daoist teachers and initiated into their tradition, indicate that you also see that it is important to find people who are truly qualified to help "point the way."

 

If my reading of the situation is correct, while I appreciate your sentiment that we are all eternally a hair's breadth or less from the Dao, it would seem that that fact doesn't obviate the need for teachers who have been taught how to help people bridge that hair's breadth.

 

You said before, "All this about who is a wrong taoist, reminds me of a moment I had at church, when I knew I was leaving, but hadn't sprung the news on mum yet and was still attending youth functions. It strikes me as insecure."

 

Perhaps the root of all this insecurity. But... If that's all it is... Why not just pay the same tuition to a guy on skid row to tell you how to cultivate? What does a teacher like the one you chose have that any random person in your city doesn't?

[steve]

Is anyone here still able to split threads?

Dwai?

While I think the two different discussions going on here are valid and have value, the mash-up is a mess.

Are the engaged parties here willing to start a separate thread to keep the two discussions going independently?

 

[freeform]

4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Source is here, now friend.  Living beingness.  Raw awareness unfolding in simple presence...

 

truly... what else is there but source?

No matter what mind thinks into partitions, or hands do, undo... or don't do.

 

I think the point being made is - past masters have been to where you are now - they've experienced being taught by the smell of a river or by the vastness of the sky - and they've probably gone further still...

 

Yet they still advocate for and try to keep protected the hierarchical system of lineage.

 

It's puzzling... why would anyone who understands that an insect is as much a part of Dao as the guy who's been rigorously training in Daoist arts for the last three decades - why would they still vehemently advocate for a lineage system?

 

I don't know exactly why. (I have my ideas)

 

But they do.

 

Every true master I've met. Even the ones who've never worn robes, only talk on first-name basis and abhor ritual defference - they still treat lineage and the master-disciple principle as fundamentally important.

Edited February 21, 2020 by freeform

[Lord Josh Allen]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13

11 hours ago, Walker said:

 

 "That's right?"

 

Okay.

 

Well, since you have downgraded "met" to "received emails from," I am going to go ahead and downgrade "hundreds" to "perhaps a couple dozen." 

 

 

Your "How I Became a Taoist" video absolutely states that Zhuge Liang chose you. You fainted, voices started speaking to you and instructing you. This is an "I was chosen" story.

 

 

I only watched one I have mentioned, and this short one of you supposedly doing weather magic:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

But which looks playing cheap tricks with video editing. 

 

 

If you took the time to seek out and ask actual Daoists, I predict you would find that what you experienced would not be referred to as a "spiritual awakening" or anything that would translate into any Chinese words with similar meaning. Establishing communication with any disembodied voice in Daoism--including that of an actual immortal--neither qualifies as an awakening nor even evidence any change in the quality of your shen. 

 

It is not just that you are not a Daoist master or priest... You simply have yet to receive a basic education in Daoism that you would get from an actual teacher. If you had, you would speak differently.

 

It may seem like I say this solely to criticize you, but I actually hope it will cause you to pause, reflect, and possibly use your evidently considerable material resources to set out upon a path that actually enables you to encounter real teachers.

 

 

I do not believe that whatever you talk to gave you magic powers. Nevertheless, even if you still had to work hard at whatever you're doing, you still present yourself as chosen by an immortal to carry out some mission on earth. 

 

 

Again, the circumstances of this experience sound worryingly like something other than what you have concluded they are. And again, those who have been exposed to the actual living tradition of Daoism tend to have heard reasons for why that would be and the corresponding warnings. I already typed them up in this thread, no need to repeat them all. 

 

 

I believe it is possible your magic works as you say it does. I believe you may have learned many things from Jerry Alan Johnson's books, which evidently draw from Daoist sources.

 

But you have not apprenticed to a Daoist master, and as you admit freely in this thread you rely upon your gleanings from "left hand" message boards with no relationship to Daoism and other traditions to make your interpretations of Johnson's books work. So, again, you are playing with things you don't understand. Using YouTube as a platform to spread your idea of what Daoism is to the naive may carry unfortunate consequences for you and those you could mislead. 

 

 

I don't know what the typical Daoist stereotype is. But Daoism does not teach that men should attempt to achieve worldly greatness. If they do, so be it. If they do not, so be it. Pursuing, striving, ambition... All of these things are warned against. If you find a teacher who transmits these teachings to you, they will not only say that, they will explain why that is, and what the mechanisms underlying these warnings are, and how those mechanisms affect cultivation. 

 

Find a teacher.

 

 

I don't know if offended is quite the right word, but I'll accept it and explain. I am deeply concerned about your promoting what I have explained is a highly problematic interpretation of the events in your life as "Daoism." You have chosen a very public platform and a very ostentatious showing off of powers. You may well confuse people and indeed harm them. As a person who has benefited from extensive exposure to living Daoist lineages and well understands that the most important teachings tend to remain secret and, whether or not they are secret, need to be transmitted from master to disciple, I have seen more than enough to know that what you are doing is dangerous. 

 

Even your disclaimer here, "I am a ritual magician who follows a Taoist path," is not really honest. You have adapted some things from the books written by Jerry Alan Johnson, who you have not met, and seemingly combined them with other things that don't even claim to have Daoist origins.

 

I have seen it written on this forum that studying in English with Jerry Alan Johnson himself is a seven year curriculum. As I explained here, native Chinese speaker Quanzhen Daoists who with to become ritual masters traditionally trained for ten or more years. In Daoism, what you are claiming to be is not a self-appointed title one can get after playing with books on one's own.

 

 

Daoism is already a very secretive tradition, but there is somewhat more openness about the basics of "inner alchemy" than magic, because the former became part of a wider "curriculum" for self cultivation and "salvation" that was not necessarily limited to daoshi/daozhang at times during history, whereas ritual magic has really remained the purview of ritual masters. I have met and had a few discussions with ritual masters and their students. To be certain they maintain a huge amount of secrecy, have to do an extraordinary amount of learning, and are generally not easy people to get information out of. They even purposely hand transcribe manuals out of order so that if they fall into the wrong hands they will not be usable (I have seen these). One master I knew took most of his ritual knowledge to the grave with him because he never found an appropriate disciple in his life.

 

I have no idea what the "Become a Living God" forum is, but given the need for secrecy and years of apprenticeship it should really be no surprise that you won't find open discussions of Daoist magic here on TDB. I doubt more than a handful of westerners have ever truly entered the door of Daoist magic, and in addition to likely being quite busy people, in order to have entered such doors they would have had to show real sincerity and vow to keep almost everything they were told secret from all but their own teachers and disciples. They would not be in much of a position to come here and open the doors to their knowledge. 

 

Look at inner alchemy and its foundational practices--there are people here who can credibly claim to have received transmission in these things, and even they never speak beyond a certain point, keeping the things they have vowed to keep secret out of the public realm. The Daoists I know who are trained in magic are even cagier about what they know than those who pursue inner alchemy. If you want insight into magic, you're going to have to get off of the internet and find a master.  

 

 

You are missing key points in your discussion in the last paragraph. Before anything you discuss in that paragraph, in Daoist magic there is the question of training and authority--receiving a register which gives the practitioner certain authority and the right to perform certain rituals. These things are passed down from master to disciple, ritually, in lineages. Without that, this is still just playing around willy-nilly, inventing your own things with inspiration from books derived from Daoism.

 

You are also missing discussion of the fruits of internal training which make it possible for actual Daoist masters to directly perceive the nature of what they may encounter. Ghost, immortal, buddha, demon--there is no question. But like I said about real gaogong, this is the fruit of a decade or more of intense studying and training. 

 

A couple of dozen? I have around 1,600 subscribers and a Facebook friends list of almost 5 thousand. I assure you it is hundreds. It seems you are reluctant to believe others are sharing my experiences because you yourself haven't had any. Again, where did I say the words "I was chosen" I asked for a timestamp in a video but you still haven't been able to show it yet. That is only your interpretation of my words which is incorrect but you insist its true, I never actually said it so you are putting words in my mouth to push your point which is unfair and disingenuous. You have only watched one video and it certainly shows, it's like judging a book by reading one page, it isn't proper research. If you decide to make judgments this way then you obviously do not seek to understand my path. 

 

You can have an opinion but it's only that. Opinionating from a subjective perspective and analyzing from an objective perspective are two different things. You say things that I've never said and make premature conclusions before doing due diligence and then don't bother to correct yourself by looking into the subject more. I can tell you are allowing your own emotional state to cloud your judgments of me. You have a stake in the argument, heavily leaning to one belief and you are polarised in your opinions towards my work rather than approaching it from a neutral stance. You would rather believe that I am dangerous and misguided because it fits your paradigm to push that agenda. It reinforces your own bias towards those left-field practitioners, whom, you do not know yet happily criticize. This is a bigoted and prejudice mindset towards those who do not conform to standardized norms. This is not a balanced viewpoint. If you see something you don't agree with, deem it dangerous and harmful, this is an opinion based on reflex action, not reasonable thought. When you combine shallow research with an emotional researcher who has an unfair inclination, you get this. 

 

It is a shame you insist on spinning a negative narrative about me based on very limited research. When I talk about magick on YT, I give warnings telling people not to dive in the deep end, you would know that if you actually watched to begin with. I assure you nobody is confused or harmed by my videos, they are optional and free. I'm not the only source out there on weather magick. If you don't agree with my perspectives then there are other video makers who you may agree with. I've been on Youtube since 2010, I've never had a single incident where anyone was harmed and I've met so many different types over the years. People enjoy my content for the most part and understand that I'm one of the most trusted Weathermancers around today. Just look at my like to dislike ratio, my comment section and the feedback I get on my documentaries. I've had plenty of Taoists watching me and loving the work that I do. You are in the minority. 

 

Seems to me you feel threatened that there are people out there like me who have had legitimate experiences without the pomp and circumstance you so cling to. Are you judging me because your own ego feels threatened? That would make sense. If I am missing the "fruits" as you say, allow me the right to find them. I have a Taoist Master, you know who he is, it is Kongming. As I've stated many times, I'm not interested in mastering Qigong, Tai Chi, martial arts, I'm a weather magician and that's what I practice. Find me another weather magician who is also a Taoist, let me speak to him/her and let's see where it goes. Are you a Weathermancer yourself? If not, why are you interested in this work? You are yet to receive a basic education in weather magick. It seems you only want to find fault and drive a one-sided argument. I'd be curious to know what experiences you've had with the art. If you are saying I don't understand it, do you? As you say yourself "If you had, you would speak differently" Ditto. 

 

"Establishing communication with any disembodied voice in Daoism--including that of an actual immortal--neither qualifies as an awakening nor even evidence any change in the quality of your shen" Says who? According to Kongming, that is false. Should I trust you over him? If so, why? How do you compare to him and his life achievements? You don't. You don't even have any ambition, case closed. There's no such thing as a secret, it does not exist. For a secret to exist, someone has to keep it, if someone keeps it, someone knows it, therefore it is not a secret. We can fool our fellow man but the Gods, spirits, deities, immortals all read our hearts and minds, how can we keep secrets from them? They read us like open books. There are no secrets in the universe, only things yet to be understood. "There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known." 

 

I know it bothers you when I call myself a Taoist but that is your problem, not mine. I didn't realize I had to so careful of your sensitivities. It was not my intention to trigger and upset you. Seems to me you want a Taoist hierarchy, you want to think you are better than me because you've joined a lineage and gone through the traditional doors. Somehow that makes your spirituality more valid than mine because you have a register and an Earthly Master, you somehow have the right to call yourself a Taoist but people like me do not, sounds like ego to me. It sounds like classic human haughtiness at its best. I was going to ask why are you hiding your ego but you are not hiding it, it is plain for all to see. I don't hide my ego behind a facade of humility, even a renegade sect-less Taoist like me knows something isn't right about pretense and phony humbleness. Sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance but I'm as close to the Tao as you are and you can't stand it. 

 

In other news, I've just received my new blazer. A shiny metallic double-breasted blazer with dramatic peak lapels, it is quite the statement!  

 

[Earl Grey]

"Brilliance and splendors blind the eye 
Competition and the hunt for fulfillment madden the mind 
Grasping wealth leaves the hand useless for all else 
Louder, faster, brighter: these things drown the senses 
The tao is subtle, quiet, soft 
A thread easily lost in the tumult 
Therefore a wise leader feeds the belly and not the senses 
Brings the people back rather than driving them on"
- Tao Te Ching/ Dao De Jing  Translated by Ted Wrigley, Chapter 12  

[silent thunder]

9 hours ago, Walker said:

 

I didn't think you're selling things. My point is:

 

Despite the fact that we are all equally proximate to "source," the sacrifices you made to study with a certain teacher who was educated by three Daoist teachers and initiated into their tradition, indicate that you also see that it is important to find people who are truly qualified to help "point the way."

 

If my reading of the situation is correct, while I appreciate your sentiment that we are all eternally a hair's breadth or less from the Dao, it would seem that that fact doesn't obviate the need for teachers who have been taught how to help people bridge that hair's breadth.

 

You said before, "All this about who is a wrong taoist, reminds me of a moment I had at church, when I knew I was leaving, but hadn't sprung the news on mum yet and was still attending youth functions. It strikes me as insecure."

 

Perhaps the root of all this insecurity. But... If that's all it is... Why not just pay the same tuition to a guy on skid row to tell you how to cultivate? What does a teacher like the one you chose have that any random person in your city doesn't?

gosh, this is off topic and pithy, but I'll try to answer politely and succinctly, though your tone is ech.

 

You make some projections in your line of questioning that do not apply to my situation, but reveal your assumptions.  Everyone can point the way.  Everyone has the wisdom of their path.  It's me who's not always capable, or willing of hearing and resonating with the message. 

 

That is why I don't always reply to everyone on this board, even though I read almost every post in every thread.  I'm semi-retired and have the time. 

 

I follow the gravity of my awareness and heart.

What Master Wang shares resonates and I'm drawn inexorably to it.  But you seem to infer something aside from what I experience.

 

I have no 'large commitment' to Master Wang.  Only two people, my wife and son have elicited large commitments from me.  The rest are incidentals, straw dogs.  I cherish them in their time for who and what they are to me, but I'm not a big 'follower' of anything but my awareness and heart.

 

Funny that you rather dismissively mention giving large sums of money to street folks... as if this were a moronic passtime.  Count me an idiot then... and I'll wear the badge of happy grinning cucumber sage as charged.

 

I paid Earl the Pearl more in money in tuition than I did to Wang and this was back in the mid 90's on a stage actor's budget.  Earl the Pearl was a man I met on the streets of Manhattan.  He used to teach Ancient Greek culture, language and philosophy as a young man.  As an elder, when I met him, he lived a meager life, in a very small one room apartment, he funded through 'tips'.  He held down a couple corners and exchanged quick lessons on life, jokes and advice, for 'tips', not handouts.  Most folks assumed he was a panhandler and treated him as such.  I tend to give to those in need.  My wife has chastised me on occasion, but rarely.  She sees the process.  Her eyes are tuned to it.  It's part of me to give when I'm able.  I often ask for a joke as payment, but only when it seems appropriate to ask.

 

Anyway, back to Earl.

 

The moment Earl registered in awareness for me, he shone like a gem and I sat listening to him for about an hour.  We chatted at length about Euripides, one of the Greeks I was unfamiliar with in depth, only name.  I handed him two 20's for his tip and invited him to stop by my bar on the days I had shifts to continue our discussion.  Over the course of the next couple years.  Earl the Pearl would come to my bar and he'd share lessons on greek philosophy, druidic lore and anything else I could muster up, in exchange for lunch and a couple drinks.  I helped him out with larger donations on a couple occasions when I was able. 

 

I never probed to find out how he went from college professor to offering philosophy and jokes for tips on the streets of NYC, but his spirit shone like a beacon to me from the moment we met and his words were offered and presented in a manner that elicited much gravity from me.  I offered him in return what I could authentically, lunches and some cash... and he shared with me a mountain of wisdom and experience that for me, an actor/philosopher fresh out of college used to great effect.  I mentioned to my gal several times that Earl did not seem 'merely human'.

 

I'm only putting it together now that you've mentioned it this way, but it was about this time, I first encountered and read Wang's biography.  My studying with Master Wang and the tuition paid him, is the same process as was my time with Earl... a street panhandler.  Isn't that something?

 

Everyone has wisdom.  Yet I don't and am not able to study with everyone.

First in my limitations as a man, but also further in my limitation in that not everyone has a wisdom I'm capable of processing, or drawn to by the gravity of resonance.  So this is why I study with some and not others.  What does the dollar sign have to do with connection, relation and mutual benefit?

 

I honestly bristle a bit at your tone and while I see no need to justify to you nor anyone where and why I spend my money and attention.  I reply for the sake of politeness and the curiosity of others.  It's as simple as this.  My attention flows where there is gravity for my awareness. 

 

So... back to Weather Magick.

 

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

I think the point being made is - past masters have been to where you are now - they've experienced being taught by the smell of a river or by the vastness of the sky - and they've probably gone further still...

 

Yet they still advocate for and try to keep protected the hierarchical system of lineage.

 

It's puzzling... why would anyone who understands that an insect is as much a part of Dao as the guy who's been rigorously training in Daoist arts for the last three decades - why would they still vehemently advocate for a lineage system?

 

I don't know exactly why. (I have my ideas)

 

But they do.

 

Every true master I've met. Even the ones who've never worn robes, only talk on first-name basis and abhor ritual defference - they still treat lineage and the master-disciple principle as fundamentally important.

well said mate.

 

My lineage is my heart and my mind, such as they are...  my tribe has no official boundaries, or creeds aside from a few simple ones.

 

Kind Heart

Quiet Heart

Sincere Heart

 

Be open to action or non-action as it arises from within.

 

There are no ordinary moments.

 

In all of history, no raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot.  There are no accidents.

 

It seems I am part of something much larger, while comprised of smaller things.

 

Now... back to Weather Magick.

[liminal_luke]

There´s gold and then there´s fools gold.  The tai chi that Taomeow and Dwai have learned is not the same as the tai chi offered at my local gym.  Taco Bell does not compare with my mother-in-laws mole coloradito.  Lipton tea and the finest oolong ostensibly come from the same plant, but the same person is unlikely to be a regular drinker of both.  Oddly perhaps, I find myself wanting to stick up for Lord Josh Allen,  even if some consider him the Lipton Tea of the Daoist world.  (Sorry Josh!)

 

I´m not too concerned that innocent bystanders are going to mistake good tai chi for bad, good mexican food for processed faux-Mexican glop.  I believe, perhaps naively, that life works out.  Do people get messed up practicing fake Daoism?  I´m sure.  But I´m OK with that.  It´s not that I don´t have compassion -- I do -- it´s just that I think mess ups are part of the path sometime.  I can´t protect people from themselves.  

 

In all my years of spiritual seeking, I´ve never once hurt myself with any practices.  Not with SunDo, Healing Dao, Sheng Zhen, tai chi, ayurveda, sufism, Kunlun.  Heck, I was no worse for wear after disrobing at a penis weight lifting workshop.  Do I just have stupid good luck? An eye for quality teachers?  I´ve always steered clear of spirit possession and fancy cars, but that´s just me.  If these things are part of someone else´s path, more power to them.

 

Alas, my powers of discernment haven´t offered near the same protective power in the kitchen or bedroom.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by liminal_luke

[silent thunder]

I feel compelled to share one more thing about Earl... 

 

One day I discovered him sitting at my bar and he asked me point blank what my religion was... I replied 'none... any longer', but Druid was as close to my world view as i'd found then... he perked up, cocked his head sideways and I went back to serving customers.

 

When I got back to him he asked me for a glass of water.  That made me perk my head as Earl was known for claiming 'don't drink water, rusts yer pipes kid, that's why your shit turns brown'... lmao (god i miss that straw dog).

 

Anyway I set the water before him and he pushed it back at me and asked... 'what is this>?'

 

I was caught for a moment but then the Mabyn of The Mabinogion popped in mind and I got his context and replied...

 

"that... is Life!"

 

Few times in my life have I seen such unbridled joy so effortlessly flow from an elderly african man.

 

He called me Drew from that point on. 

 

Thanks for probing me in this manner @Walker  My heart is so wide open with radiant joy at the memory of sharing such simple wisdom with a person whom, had I not been looking, may have wandered right past and never come to know... all along he was a master in my lineage... my tribe of life that has room for all, but not always awareness.

 

Wherever you are now Earl...  your lessons stuck and your love, is still alive.

thank you old friend 

 

such gifts as these... treasure in every corner of reality

if only i have the eyes to see and ears to hear.

[silent thunder]

On 2/19/2020 at 6:01 PM, steve said:

 

I just read something and thought of you...

 

If you’re in search of a guru, the moon is taking students. She’s a subtle, powerful teacher, with ample availability and tons of experience. She charges no fees and assigns no exercises. Her illumination is literal, indisputable, and eternal, lighting the way where Buddhas are born and slayed.

The ninth-century Zen master Chin Lee instructed, “if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” In his essay “Killing the Buddha,” author and neuroscientist Sam Harris examines this surprisingly violent koan, writing, “Like much of Zen teaching, this seems too cute by half, but it makes a valuable point: to turn the Buddha into a religious fetish is to miss the essence of what he taught.”

What he taught, after all, is that we all are born Buddhas. Teachers may aid in this realization, but objectifying gurus just obscures and externalizes what’s only ever found within — and lost again. Each of us must reach this understanding individually and experientially, not intellectually. My saying this doesn’t mean much until you’ve sensed it to be true. So, Lin Chi wasn’t advising actual violence but urging students to be ruthless in their quest for truth and liberation.

 

No one and nothing can grant freedom. But if they’re old school, like Lin Chi, what gurus can do is beat you with a stick so you’ll stop thinking and intuit the truth. Or, if they’re more modern in their approach, they can gently coax you into practices that enhance intuition and cultivate discipline, like meditation. Or, if they’re enduring, like the moon, they’ll just illuminate whatever path you take.

In the Zen tradition, you’re as likely to be illuminated by accident as by practice. There are countless parables that highlight this fact, like the one about a man who’s instantly enlightened overhearing a butcher telling a choosy customer that every cut on the porker before her is a good one. You get zero spiritual points for avid efforts because there’s no score to keep and no one to impress. There are just experiences and the stories we tell ourselves.

So, please allow me to share a tale of two moons and too much trying, which may amuse you Buddhas.

Once upon a time

Many moons ago, when I was 25, living in Japan teaching English, I rode a bike from the town of Inazawa to the city of Nagoya and back to practice judo. The dojo was all-male and there were no other foreigners, so mostly it was awkward and not that charming. And, often, with my head locked between the knees of a handsome Japanese youth, I wondered what I was doing.

What did all this tumbling, grunting, bowing, and fighting politely have to do with me, born in Israel, raised in the US, and educated by a French mother who prohibited playing soccer to preserve my pretty knees for skirts? What did this have to do with becoming a writer or crafting an adult life (which I gathered was what I should be doing)?

One night, as I was riding despondently back from practice, a one-hour journey that took me along a straight, empty stretch of road surrounded by fields, I noticed the bright moon, round and large. It was right there with me, every time, every ride, always slightly different, waxing or waning, lighter or dimmer, and I realized, laughing happily, “The moon is my friend!”

And something shifted. This moment released me from the vice grip of wishing things were different. I had friends in high places, so everything was already ok. Life didn’t have be some other way… even if I did sometimes find myself with a jock clamping my noggin between his knees.

It was a moment of liberation. In the 22 years since, I’ve turned to texts and teachers to help me cultivate practices to keep in touch with this feeling, or — more precisely — with whatever feelings and experiences arise. I’ve sat in Zen temples, contorted in yoga studies, studied Sufism, pondered Kabbalah, and holed up in a tiny cabin in the woods to read countless books. These efforts have informed me, providing a vocabulary for framing experience, but my most effective lessons have always happened by moonlight, when I finally wasn’t trying.

In Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism, the late Tibetan Buddhist teacher Chögyam Trungpa warns,

“The problem is that ego can convert anything to its own use, even spirituality. Ego is constantly attempting to acquire and apply the teachings of spirituality for its own benefit. The teachings are treated as an external thing… which we try to imitate. We do not actually want to identify with or become the teachings.”

In other words, sometimes we reinforce the very things we claim to be seeking to deconstruct with spiritual practice. Delusions. Ego. We’re attached to forms and notions because the substance of Zen isn’t sexy and we kind of wish it was. It’s pretty dull, really, as plain as the light of day or the moon shining at night. It’s as simple as, “Eat your rice. Wash your bowl.”

We all need guidance. But sometimes we use it to hide from instead of find ourselves, accessorizing existence with attractive activities and ideas. We think that a retreat is what we need or a really great teacher or a better routine or even a cool outfit that makes us feel real spiritual (all black, all white, coarse cloth, extra soft?). Students get confused, confounding the finger pointing at the moon — externalities — with the moon itself. We ornament the days with rituals but reject the premise they are built upon; simple brilliance, totally ordinary ordinariness. We resist the very lesson we’re attempting to learn and remain lost as a result.

Lost and found

About five years after befriending the moon in Japan, I served in the Peace Corps in Senegal, where I had a lot of time to stare at the sky. My service took place in Goudem Ndeb, a tiny, destitute village of 43 people—30 of whom were children—deep in the bush, about ten miles from a paved road and the nearest bottle of Coca Cola.

My goal had been to get away from the frantic pace of New York City. So, while I worked at ABC News, among dozens of booming televisions and hundreds of writers and producers, I planned an escape that would take me to a quieter, simpler, more spiritual place, whatever that means. It would be, I imagined, a retreat, and there I’d meditate my way to peace.

The joke was on me. Village life wasn’t quiet. It was loud, stinky, hot, dusty, and uncomfortable. Every night, in my small hut in this place that appears on no maps, I’d light a candle and sit and sweat as bugs paraded across the walls and hyenas howled in the bush. It didn’t feel spiritual. It felt stupid, frankly. Because there I was, with my privileged existential struggle, trying to wrest meaning from life when the meaning of life, clearly, was survival. And I was ill-equipped to survive in this place where nature ruled and the bush ground everything to dust.

 

I didn’t know where to collect wood for cooking, how to eat at a communal bowl with my hands, ride a horse, catch a fish, sweep a dusty compound with a bundle of sticks, or deal with the stream of kids that followed me like the pied piper. Locals came from far and wide to observe and laugh at my ineptitude which really wasn’t rude because, for one thing, I was a hoot, and also because in a place where a passing car is occasion for celebration, of course the presence of a guest from afar is entertaining.

One afternoon, about six months in, I wandered off to the nearby river to get away. But when the tide changed and I was walking back, I suddenly had no idea how to reach my village. Night fell. It rained. I walked and walked and thought longingly about my squalid hut and the fine, plain, gray, sandy millet couscous that we ate in the evenings, missing the parade of children. I wished I was home. By home, I meant Goudem Ndeb.

Now, you might be saying, as I did then, “What a perfect time to sit under a baobob like a Buddha.” But I was wet and hungry and scared. Mosquitoes were devouring me and hyenas howled nearby. So, after about fifteen minutes of sitting, I decided to walk with a dim moon for company, wondering if I was destined to die young and stupid and full of delusions.

I didn’t know where I was going. I just hoped to find a road that would lead to a village. At dawn, after about ten hours of walking, following the sound of what I thought were barking dogs, I got lucky. Never has a ramshackle collection of thatched huts looked so luxurious!

A woman hanging laundry in her yard screamed when she saw me, a pathetic, pale, soggy apparition. Yet she offered me breakfast, and afterwards her husband walked me to Gouden Ndeb, lecturing the whole way back in Serer (a West African language I didn’t realize I understood so well until his soliloquy made me wince more than each aching step). Rhetorically, he asked with a laugh, “Why wander when everything you need is at home?”

Why, indeed? The depth of his question wasn’t lost on me. It’s what Zen masters have asked in a thousand different ways as students submit to teachers, and memorize sutras, and torture the truth.

When we arrived in the village, there was a whole posse gathered from near and far, mournfully planning hunt strategy—how would they find the lost American? They cheered at my arrival and I fell into the arms of my village mother. We both cried with joy and relief to see each other.

That night, clean, wearing dry clothes, lying happily on woven mats after a dinner of plain millet, surrounded by children, I stared skyward at my friend, the moon, and remembered what it’s always been saying—from dusk to dawn since the dawn of time. Ordinary life is just fine

 

~ Ephrat Livni from The Lion’s Roar

omg @steve

 

thank you so much for sharing this...

you may have thought of manitou, but you have just pierced awareness with an arrow of resonance with these words.

 

the timing and resonance for me are staggering!

 

Man, I apologize for the intense side tracking of this thread, but I'm not sorry.  The resonance and connection are palpable and welcome.  Some old energies have been stirred to balance in ways I could not have anticipated in this thread and its various off-shoots.

 

I used to close my bar in Manhattan and ride my bike back to Brooklyn, over the Brooklyn Bridge at around 4:30-4:45am.  I'd often stop mid bridge to hang out, smoke a fatty, or just linger in the early pre-dawn quiet... bridges are one of the few places you can physically be not close to another human in that city.

 

But The Moon... she was usually there and on several occasions her message, always readily available was able to land in my awareness that had grown quiet enough to be able to hear her.

 

I've always found magick to be an exploration of my greater self. 

When I'm trying to influence material existence, or my own inner paradigm and landscape... I align my small self with the change I wish to entice from the outer self.  I go within my own weather system so to speak, to entice a reflective shift in the outer world, which in my experience is my extended self.

 

Go within to entice reflective shift without.

 

Thanks Bums... once again you shine with unanticipatable brilliance and are a wealth of wisdom from an unexpected source.

 

What is magick but our influence of intent affecting that which we are connected to?

It's like a conversation, but not in words between people, in actions and presence and awareness between my own local awareness and that of me that lies beyond my ken.

 

reminds me of a powerful saying that came to my thought pond one day quite unexpectedly but resoundingly one moment years ago.

 

"It is a poor man indeed, who, not listening, stomps about, proclaiming Nature to be mute."

Edited February 21, 2020 by silent thunder
added the saying at the end

[Nungali]

Regarding  have a 'spirit guide' or  an ' immortal '  or  'a  Kongming' or  whatever   name or term  one wants  to use ;

 

I am not going to comment specifically on Josh's experience,  as I am   NOT a Daoist  ( )    but generally ,  across  most cultures through time , I have observed this as   a common human dynamic , for many .  

 

Jung's Philamon is the classical example . We also have Blavatski's  Old (or King ) John , and a heap of others .  In or out of tradition , its a human dynamic .  I have one as well , been with me since I was a child .  And of course, has nothing to do with any tradition ( excepting that some traditions recognise this 'entity '  under different cultural names ;  there are 'classes' types of them , or even maybe 'neters' ).   A big part of practising magic is finding ones essential nature, and the essential nature if this being (or 'archetype' if one prefers)   .  Really, without this, a 'magician'  is not a whole person or developing properly .

 

The thing is, as I said before , there are different types  , one needs to 'invoke' ones higher  'Genius '    or  higher  'Daimon ' .  and   regulate and control one's 'demons '

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)

 

 

“Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life. Philemon represented a force which was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. For I observed clearly that it was he who spoke, not I. He said I treated thoughts as if I generated them myself, but in his view thoughts were like animals in the forest, or people in a room, or birds in the air, and added, “If you should see people in a room, you would not think that you had made those people, or that you were responsible for them.” It was he who taught me psychic objectivity, the reality of the psyche. Through him the distinction was clarified between myself and the object of my thought. He confronted me in an objective manner, and I understood that there is something in me which can say things that I do not know and do not intend, things which may even be directed against me.”

― Carl Gustav Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections

 

This  is fairly  essential  psychology / 'psychic anatomy '   ,      IMO you cant say 'you should not be doing this '  -   to some people, it 'just happens '  anyway .

 

One final point ; there are 2 schools of thought on this ;

 

1.   That it is dangerous knowledge  and not should not be 'unleashed'  as there are forces that can disrupt one's psyche . Its best left sleeping, and we have got on pretty good as is, without bringing all this stuff 'into the light ' .   My answer to that is  .... are not many psyche's disrupted already and need healing , and   DO WE  get on pretty good ?  I mean - look at the state of things .

 

2. Teach instruct and be aware of these forces   ( Steiner , advocated this , along with  Swedenborg and many other teachers  )  - its better to understand and DEAL with something than ignore it and let it run tour life without you being aware of it  ... especially if it is a  negative manifestation .

 

(Positive  manifestations  can dispel negative ones, but not visa versa  { see the work of VanDusen and others } , so we have some hope  here for those 'afflicted' . )

 

[steve]

Great discussion!

I really appreciate the differing perspectives and passionate sharing.

 

I have a deep and abiding respect for lineage and tradition, particularly in martial and spiritual disciplines.

I also acknowledge tradition and lineage can perpetuate very negative patterns - paternalism, systematic abuse, intolerance, and others.

 

Similarly, I have a deep respect for those who choose an individual path and follow their heart. It's a difficult path filled with trial and error and can lead some far astray. For others, it's precisely what is needed.

 

It's interesting when you look at what actually leads to our successes and failures.

One can spend a lifetime in dedicated practice with expert guidance and never experience what they're looking for, be it martial mastery or an awakening experience. Another can be awakened in the flash of an eye with no guidance or lineage whatsoever, or take to a martial practice as if they were born with the skill...

 

I've been on both paths at different times in my life. Currently I enjoy the support of a traditional lineage and teacher, although my teacher is quite progressive and has been criticized by more orthodox teachers of his lineage. Sometimes the tradition can get in the way when the mind gets too attached to an expectation or a rule. 

 

A few months back I was in a bit of a rut in my practice and ability to connect and one night I looked up and there was the Moon.

Full and beautiful, surrounded by a halo of rainbow light much like is described surrounding the figure with which we practice guru yoga in my tradition. She opened my heart and flooded me with presence, with simple being and direct connection. 

It reinvigorated my practice and reminded me of the simplicity and effortlessness of connection to the source.

 

I hope that once we get our opinions out there, we can ultimately allow each other to tread our paths and be here to support each other at least as much as we tend to criticize. At the end of the day we're simply a few smart animals daily getting closer to death trying to make some sense of things and making the most out of our circumstances.

 

My love and respect to everyone here,

 

_/\_

 

 

[manitou]

I just watched the weather magic video.  And Lord Josh Allen, you have the most graceful arms!  Your motion is beautiful.

 

I've found that very often, if one is capable of getting into Consciousness with the One, that it often works just to ask it to stop raining while I get to the car.

[manitou]

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

 

A few months back I was in a bit of a rut in my practice and ability to connect and one night I looked up and there was the Moon.

Full and beautiful, surrounded by a halo of rainbow light much like is described surrounding the figure with which we practice guru yoga in my tradition. She opened my heart and flooded me with presence, with simple being and direct connection. 

It reinvigorated my practice and reminded me of the simplicity and effortlessness of connection to the source.

 

 

 

 

You are such a love bug. 

 

Isn't that something, about the moon?  Joe and I had that same thing happen to us while looking at the moon in Ojai.  It's like it reaches out and grabs your heart, and it's a bit of a magnetic pull.  It happened simultaneously to us both.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

I just watched the weather magic video.  And Lord Josh Allen, you have the most graceful arms!  Your motion is beautiful.

 

I've found that very often, if one is capable of getting into Consciousness with the One, that it often works just to ask it to stop raining while I get to the car.

 

Here is me ' getting into Consciousness with the One '   *  :

 

Kids are playing in my yard  , I see a large bamboo culm  tilt over  and  crash  on to the ground  - I thought I had heard a sawing noise previously !  So I go outside , they had found a pruning saw and where  'practising '  .   I asked them not to do that. Back inside I see it happening again . Outside, tell them again and take them to some lantana that needs pruning back , 'saw that up' .

 

 Five mins later , same thing , bamboo , timbeeer !  Go back outside ,   chuck a tantie   , confiscate the saw  and tell them to behave or F off .

 

Then again !  They must have gone and got the saw ... little buggers !  So now I have got them out on the front lawn telling them off , but one of them is smirking and smart mouths me  and  ' ... so ? What are YOU gonna do  about it . "

 

  " What am I going to do ....  WHAT AM I GOING TO DO ?    I  .....   "   -  these recent events had distracted me from  the late afternoon thunderclouds coming in from the west (and screened by forest ), a common occurrence at that time of year - they can come out of 'nowhere '  - the kids probably had noticed it either . 

 

" I'll tell you what I will do ! "  and rose up and stretched my hands up   wondering what to say, or scream or just breath out and do nothing or   ... but a terrific flash went off with a huge thunderclap .  It scared me just as much as them , but I didnt let on I just bought my arms down  and ROARED as hard as I could .  And, you know what's it like when near a thunder strike - your  .... 'everything '  is   frazoomeld .... hair standing up, etc .

 

  It was hilarious to see those three little ones, turn and scamper , full pelt down my driveway, leaving little puffs of dust behind them , they going so fast     effen hilarious !   Then another thunderclap and I am standing there shaking my fist at them and  " RRARRRRRGHHH ! "   They didnt look back .

 

- Good boys after that ..... well,  with me anyway .     I knew it was  coincidence or 'good timing ' and funny , but they  ...  

 

Spoiler

So, now its out , old timers here might know of past accusations about me 'throwing knives at children'  ....   now its admitted I also 'throw thunderbolts' at them .

 

 

 

*   The  'One ' in this case ,  probably  Mars .   I was possessed by the 'Spirit of Mars ' .   .

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Nungali