Yonkon

Purpose of QiGong

Recommended Posts

I tested out a fair share of spiritual practices and qiqong seems to be the most suited for my personality so i want to commit. (I love to move and i can't sit still) 

 

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

Edited by Yonkon
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Yonkon said:

 Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga?

That depends. But the simplest answer is "no". 

48 minutes ago, Yonkon said:

I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

It might be. Depends on the practice and the practitioner. 

But really, look at some of the threads on forums like this. 

Healthy mind, calm being, open heart?

That might take a while 😁. 

 

The practice is fun though, so it is worth it. 

48 minutes ago, Yonkon said:

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Depends on the practice and your goals. 

 

In the end everybody dies, unless you find a method that will make you Immortal, in which case you will not. 

48 minutes ago, Yonkon said:

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

Not likely. They might lead to similar places, some might lead you astray, and some might open up to new ways of experiencing the world. 

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yonkon said:

 

 I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

 

This practice, https://shengzhen.org/, is very much oriented towards your goals.  I took several workshops with Master Li years ago and highly recommend the practice

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

This practice, https://shengzhen.org/, is very much oriented towards your goals.  I took several workshops with Master Li years ago and highly recommend the practice

great, thank you!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
4 hours ago, Yonkon said:

I tested out a fair share of spiritual practices and qiqong seems to be the most suited for my personality so i want to commit. (I love to move and i can't sit still) 

 

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

It depends on what you consider meditation or yoga to be. Yoga in India is primarily meditation with the Asana's to help move the energies throughout the nadis and subtle bodies. When the Yoga Sutras were written by Pantanjali it was only meditation and no asanas. 

 

Qi Gong is meditation in sitting and standing pose as well as the various postures. 

 

There is no question that Qi Gong is a full path very much like Yoga. And like Yoga its Westernized versions tend to be for health, vitality and gross physical workout - and the students generally have little grasp of what mountain of gold upon which the play.

 

Most "Yoga" in the West is not in any way shape or form true Yoga - it is calisthenics, stretching and some brief meditative practice "to cope with stress". This is also true for Qi Gong though many do not include meditation and in some cases the meditation is basterdized as a stamina exercise for energetic purposes.

 

Some forms of Qi Kung are martial and are known as hard forms in some cases - one may find in them such things as pulling weights with ones balls etc. Not knocking it - but not a spiritual path and not trying to be.

 

Qi Kung (Gong) is a full path - it consistently breaks rigidized patterns apart in ones space and propogates natural energy patterns.

Its meditation forms are arguably the most effective - and certainly on par and inclusive of Full Lotus, Sitting in a Chair, Standing and Walking.

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
4
4 hours ago, Yonkon said:

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

All True practices do lead to the same "thing"- though that is a very broad way to ask the question and answer it.

 

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I like is your own identification that you're not one for sitting still. Neither am I, and I do seated meditation very rarely. I do feel its benefits, and I know I should do more, but it's about the time consumption....I work and love my taiji and adding more and more to my practice negatively impacts on results because I'd be cramming.

 

So my particular priorities go:

 

Taiji

Strength exercises

Qigong or standing practice

Sitting meditation

 

But either way, homing in on qigong practice daily will keep your mind, body and spirit in good condition.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rara said:

Taiji

 

What's the difference between qigong and Taiji? And where would i start with Taiji if i don't have a teacher around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Qi Kung ( in China it is more closely pronounced “chi kung” )

 

This has most movements with stillness incorporated - it is much less apt to lead one off into trance states. 
The four aspects of breath like the tides are experienced at great depth. What can unfold is beyond description.

In daily or frequent practice identifications and karmic tensions are moved through while a calm strength grows and pervades.

One becomes increasingly rooted as a great tree or mountain though as with true Yoga - the diet must be accounted for as the energy rises considerably and one expands exponentially.

 

In all of this it is common to become delightfully lost in the possession of new energies and the magical release of tension and forget the Way and become the hotshot. So much lies beyond this but few make it past - in any event the practice is simple yet incredibly powerful, requires very little space and very little time to “work up to it” physically. 
 

Health benefits are immediate and obvious.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Spotless
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Yonkon said:

I tested out a fair share of spiritual practices and qiqong seems to be the most suited for my personality so i want to commit. (I love to move and i can't sit still) 

I had the same realization many years ago. It wasn’t easy for me to sit still and ‘meditate’, so I took up taijiquan (a type of qigong). It turned out to the be the full kit and kaboodle with its own sets of inner alchemy and meditation practices. Not all systems have this — to find one which does, and have good teachers is a matter of great fortune. 

20 hours ago, Yonkon said:

 

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

The purpose of any of these mind-body practices is to still the mind — bring about a degree of quietude so the root/essence of our being becomes revealed.

 

Qigong, yoga, meditation practices are all means to one end — Spiritual awakening or realization (some call it Self-realization, some call it Nonself-realization, some others will call it something else). 
 

If we don’t get distracted by the lure of powers, they are very potent transformative and preparatory practices for real “meditation” (called samādhi in the Indian traditions).

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dwai said:

I had the same realization many years ago. It wasn’t easy for me to sit still and ‘meditate’, so I took up taijiquan (a type of qigong). It turned out to the be the full kit and kaboodle with its own sets of inner alchemy and meditation practices. Not all systems have this — to find one which does, and have good teachers is a matter of great fortune. 

The purpose of any of these mind-body practices is to still the mind — bring about a degree of quietude so the root/essence of our being becomes revealed.

 

I want to support that, all that. Taiji Quan is a type of qi gong -with practical, martial applications- but the greatest gem is in the qi gong.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of people here get a bit snooty when considering yoga, particularly the commercialised western style yoga you see around a lot on dvds. Their reasoning is that only the most rarest practices are the most high level. But I've always preferred yoga to qigong. For me it works on a deeper level in clearing out the trash in your body. One of the most powerful things Eric Isen has tested for me has weirdly been a DVD series by Rodney Yee, and he's tested a lot of the stuff that people here rave about. Of course your mileage may vary, it all depends on what other stuff you're doing and your own energetic makeup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

 

I want to support that, all that. Taiji Quan is a type of qi gong -with practical, martial applications- but the greatest gem is in the qi gong.

 

Yes, however, there two types of Qi gong: static and dynamic. Static is motionless like sedentary and isometric; and dynamic is isotonic exercise like Tai Chi. If Tai Chi performed properly, deep breathing will kick in after a long period of diligent practice. Breathing is the key beneficial factor from practicing qi gong. If deep breathing was not performed in Tai Chi to coordinate with the movements, one is not doing Tai Chi and accomplished nothing.

Edited by ReturnDragon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

I want to support that, all that. Taiji Quan is a type of qi gong -with practical, martial applications- but the greatest gem is in the qi gong.

My teacher says the martial stuff is lowest level of taijiquan. Highest level is spiritual transformation. 
 

In the temple style system we have seated and physically static standing meditations...not just moving form practice (which good for circulation of the Qi). 

 

There are so many levels to these teachings - most don’t go beyond the outer door stuff, hence long forms etc. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Yonkon said:

 

What's the difference between qigong and Taiji? And where would i start with Taiji if i don't have a teacher around?

 

To elaborate on @CloudHands (hey, btw, long time no see!) post, the best way I can describe it is that Taiji forms incorporate martial arts moves. Like taiji, qigong has many different variants, depending on which school you learn from. What qigong does is work more on a refined set of body movements as well the working the energies in the body.

 

Initially, you would think that qigong would be a precursor to learning taiji, because as cloudhand mentioned, the gems are there. And this all later comes into play if you practice both, HOWEVER, the case is that most people that practice taiji and only taiji will obtain its benefits much faster because one doesn't necessarily need to focus on qigong elements to generally get a healthier body both internally and externally.

 

Don't let that put you off qigong as a primary focus, though. If that's what you want to do, then certainly go for it.

 

Now, finding a teacher is a good point. I am a firm believer of the "when the student is ready, the teacher appears", because that's pretty much how my two teachers came into my life! Until then, I held curiosity, but stuck with Kung Fu, and later MMA for a considerable number of years until the right situations came along.

 

If you're looking for the best school, then you'll know what I mean. You'll shop around but your instincts will tell you if something isn't genuine. If there's specific advice you're after, based on location, drop me a DM :)

Edited by Rara
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @Rara, I'm here, still here :)

 

"we will always love you" ;)

 

Another major difference is that taiji has a deep focus on the biggest joint of the body, the pelvic bone. It's about moving while linking the rooting to the higher body parts. It's about moving in space while the whole body keeps being integrated from the toes to the fingers. It takes room to practice, that can be challenging.

 

But after some time you begin practicing with partners, talking about dealing with alterity and possibly confrontation (depending on the teaching spirit and partners). It makes a huge difference with qi gong because there is no way it's just in your head. Get tense, push without peng jin and your teacher will be happy to prove you wrong :D

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Practically speaking - taiji is almost impossible to ‘get’ without a teacher - not even the earliest stages. Qi Gong’s earliest stages are accessible without a live teacher (but with very good information).

 

Taiji is mastery of yin and yang. Qigong is mastery of Qi. With teachers I’ve trained with neither of them are ‘spiritual’ practices of their own accord, but certainly complementary - and for most people even necessary precursors to spiritual practice.

 

Taiji is almost infinitely deep in terms of practice - you can practice for 60+ years and still have depth to explore. Qigong generally has an end point in terms of depth of exploration. At a certain stage you will have ‘accomplished’ qigong and then it’s just a matter of upkeep.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, freeform said:

Taiji is almost infinitely deep in terms of practice

 

How about Baguazhang? I've heard it's supposed to be 'even more spiritual' than Taiji. I've heard the opposite about Xin(g?) Yi. Is there any validity to that? Or are they just different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29/01/2020 at 8:13 PM, Yonkon said:

I tested out a fair share of spiritual practices and qiqong seems to be the most suited for my personality so i want to commit. (I love to move and i can't sit still) 

 

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

 

"I love to move and i can't sit still"

Purpose of QiGong would be for you to learn how to sit still?... Wu wei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei) is the the primal skill (not as easy as it sounds.....a funny sort of 'nothing' that is definately 'something') and all that arises from it is in theory taichi but not necessarily taichi chuan......its complicated O.K?

 

Anyhow qigong is the nourishment of the TCM 3 treasures jing, qi and shen which may loosely be translated as essence (biology), energy (nourishment, diet, bio electricity etc but most importantly breathing) and spirit (thought processes, mind and soul etc) and the arriving at a unification and balance of the three to achieve ones own best operational effectiveness.

 

At a basic level qigong could be simply a diet conscious, stretching and massaging, aerobic calisthenics but with a good deal of Wu wei.

 

 

Edited by Ad_B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/29/2020 at 12:13 PM, Yonkon said:

I tested out a fair share of spiritual practices and qiqong seems to be the most suited for my personality so i want to commit. (I love to move and i can't sit still) 

 

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

Check out the different qigongs that have a good verifiable history. Find the one that balnces and energizes you best.  But, movement should be balanced with stillness.  You strike me as a dynamic person, so, I suggest that you search for a good teacher in Zhan Zhuang.  Once you start to understand the simplicity/complexity of standing like a tree, you will be glad you do it with qigong.

Edited by moment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Piyadasi said:

 

How about Baguazhang? I've heard it's supposed to be 'even more spiritual' than Taiji. I've heard the opposite about Xin(g?) Yi. Is there any validity to that? Or are they just different?

Usually one graduates from xinyi to bagua to taijiquan (I’m sure Some people will Vehemently (dis)agree) :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, freeform said:

Qigong generally has an end point in terms of depth of exploration. At a certain stage you will have ‘accomplished’ qigong and then it’s just a matter of upkeep.

 

Those who haven't been exposed to one of the infinitely deep systems of chi kung (real nei kung), which is almost everyone, is bound to think that way.

 

To @Yonkon  Any martial art, per se, does not have a spiritual aspect.  However some of the internal schools of old, whether tai chi or Bagua, had a wholistic approach which did include the spiritual, nei kung, part.  Those types of schools are mostly gone now, and are vanishingly rare in the West.  Long story short, give up on finding a spiritual martial art.  Just do lots of sitting meditation in addition to tai chi.

 

Chi kung, these days, has turned into a huge circus absolutely devoid of the spiritual aspect.  I'm the only one who can and would teach the spiritual aspects of chi kung in a holistic way to (some) Westerners, but we're closed for the coronavirus outbreak.  Not that you would want to come here anyway ... and no, it is never taught in books or videos.

 

 

Edited by Starjumper
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, freeform said:

Taiji is mastery of yin and yang.

 

Would you expand on what exactly you mean by this, how is this mastery used in life ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/29/2020 at 12:13 PM, Yonkon said:

But now a questioned entered my mind: Has qiqong the same purpose as sitting meditation or yoga? I want to become healthy in body and mind, calm my being and open my heart. Is QiGong the right practice for walking this path?  

 

Imagine that i commit to a life long mastery of Qiqong, where would this lead me, what will get out of the practice?

Another Question that is related: will all practices lead me to the same thing the one way or another?

 

Yes,  please watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBAHRqOtJDQ

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/02/2020 at 9:31 PM, Starjumper said:

Those types of schools are mostly gone now, and are vanishingly rare in the West.

I often have the feeling that what people are doing is not the real thing no matter how much they talk about it.

Having amazing power energy is definitely not spirituality.  Many people have worked out how to cultivate this or that energy from this or that movement or practice ... it's "very difficult" because it is unfamiliar to you to feel such energies ... masters will meet you in hotel rooms charging hundreds of bucks to show you this practice to make this energy.  But this has nothing to do with spirituality because you don't change, your energy system may change, but you yourself do not change.  It is like buying an expensive esoteric fur coat.  Because it seems "very difficult" - and because you have discovered something you won't see it on msn ... you may feel like it is amazing or the "real thing", you may feel very special ... but it is still not spiritual and you haven't really changed at all ... even if you can fly using these energies. 

A "master" who can teach you to harness such energies ... he may have absolutely no idea if harnessing these energies will damage your energetic system leading to a slow drain and early death.  How would he know?  He might sell it to you because it is "very difficult" and "very esoteric" but that does not mean you need it, want it, or it will enlighten you.

There are many people who defend lineages, and I suppose there is something maybe good about that ... but many lineages develop power without spirituality, others may develop power with spirituality.   And nobody really can tell the difference.  People do their thing and follow their lineage ... some follow it over the edge of the cliff, others to "heaven".  Such is the low state of mankind that he cannot tell the difference, he does not know what he is looking for.

w.r.t the lower dantien, cultivating the energies that flow out of the dantien also has nothing to do with enlightenment of the dantien which does not involve cultivating the energies flowing out ... it is more like self-recognition at the level of the dantien.  So you can have a very strange situation where someone with massive qi power has zero spiritual awakening, whereas a total qi nobody can be in the state of dantien self-realisation.  Again a very weird state of affairs.

Internal arts take thousands of hours to perfect but in the end it is all very very very easy.  Yes it is difficult to fully relax, to fully sense inside, to fully this or fully .... it has some "difficulty" ... but it is not really difficult at all, it is fun.  Real spirituality is difficult because it involves massive changes to what "you are", rather than "what energy you got".

Consider this : I don't believe anyone knows Buddha's actual practice ... he enlightened students in a few days.  Nobody can do that anymore.  And I see degeneration in all traditions.  Light just does not survive here, it is eaten alive and soon.  5 minutes before the patriarch dies already his followers are fighting for the throne.  And even if you did know his practice ... where it really leads and what kind of enlightenment he has is an open question.   An enlightened monkey may not be a very high being at all.

In various places you will find complex diagrams of the purported qigong/neighong/shengong methodologies ... but I think they are mostly garbage ... if you can't feel it inside best to assume it is made up as a kind of advertising.

It can take hundreds of hours of intensive work to determine that a tradition or practice is actually not very good - and there does not seem to be any way around this kind of effort that is then discarded, it is the price of being sure.

Another thing is w.r.t the secret of the golden flower, in that text the author is giving various specific practices.  But today many people teacher the sotgf practice and do completely different practices.  This is delusional.  I see this in many places.  People are selling apples that are labelled oranges, and go home happy.  It's quite mad, but that's how people are.  The same goes for the Butter meditation of Hakuyu that is contained in the texts of Zen master Hakui ... today there are lineages teaching this but using completely different instructions with completely different results.  Crazy.
Often insincere people enter into traditions in order to take the lead and lead it over a cliff because they are either vain power-seeking people, or in some cases absolutely hate spirituality.  Some of them introduce small modifications to practices which completely destroy them.   It is uncommon for someone to take the reigns on the basis of his merit and accomplishment, and few students reach the same height as their teachers.

There is a kind of war to find the truth, the barriers are quite large, the unconsciousness on Earth is so thick you can cut it.

Okay enough ranting.

Edited by rideforever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

Would you expand on what exactly you mean by this, how is this mastery used in life ?

 

It's quite an in-depth topic - more suited to a thick book than to an online post. If I was to summarise, I feel I'd be doing you and the topic a disservice.

 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

And I see degeneration in all traditions.  Light just does not survive here

 

What you've touched upon here (and in many posts before) is quite right. There is a degeneration... Or rather a movement from the spiritual to the material...

 

The plus side is that we're materially more comfortable and healthy than ever. On the downside - we've lost our connection to the spiritual nature of reality.

 

I've been reading about the Yugas - the cycle of ages. We're in what would be called Kali Yuga - the dark days of spirituality... full of false gurus, delusion, ego and degeneration. This is, in fact, the reason that we need practices like qigong, nei gong and alchemy - to create the right internal conditions for spirituality to unfold.

 

In the days of the Buddha, you're quite right - he would speak and the very insight gained by understanding his words would be enough to liberate you. Those days are long over :) Now we need to laboriously build ourselves up to even get to 0...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites