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Posted (edited)

At first I thought I would just stay out of this discussion because I am relatively new here. But, that is precisely the reason I think I need to speak up. I have learned so much in the time that I have been here and I have gained so much encouragement to move forward on my current path. I feel like I'm starting to make some friends here and am so thankful for the advice that some have taken the time to give me through PM.

 

I would be very sad to see knowledgeable, experienced people leave because of a few trolls. Hopefully I'm not giving myself too much credit here, but I think it's pretty easy to spot a troll and their BS. Can I ask why people just don't ignore their BS and not respond to them? What do trolls want most? ATTENTION. Am I wrong to think that if you just ignore them they will go away. As long as they are not inciting violence there is no need to ban them, just don't encourage them.

Edited by escott
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43 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

But it's another thing to be told that your opinion has no value, that you are wrong,

And a member that has done that has just left the bums. More than one has called him valuable. 

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Whatever you do in the pursuit of truth or reality takes you away from your own very natural state in which you always are. It’s not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a result of your effort. All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express itself. That is why I call this your natural state. You’re always in that state. What prevents what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the wrong direction, so all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness. You may not [Laughs] like the word contamination but all that you consider sacred, holy and profound is a contamination. There’s nothing that you can do, it’s not in your hands. This is something which I can’t give because you have it. It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which you already have. There isn’t anything to get from anybody. You have what I have. I say you are there.

 

UG Krishnamurti

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5 minutes ago, escott said:

At first I thought I would just stay out of this discussion because I am relatively new here. But, that is precisely the reason I think I need to speak up. I have learned so much in the time that I have been here and I have gained do much encouragement to move forward on my current path. I feel like I'm starting to make some friends here and am so thankful for the advice that some have taken the time to give me through PM.

 

I would be very sad to see knowledgeable, experienced people leave because of a few trolls. Hopefully I'm not giving myself too much credit here, but I think it's pretty easy to spot a troll and their BS. Can I ask why people just don't ignore their BS and not respond to them? What do trolls want most? ATTENTION. Am I wrong to think that if you just ignore them they will go away. As long as they are not inciting violence there is no need to ban them, just don't encourage them.

 

Hi escott - belated welcome to TDB! Glad you are enjoying the forum; it is a unique place indeed. :) 

 

I agree with you, trolls and BS are easy to spot. It might be some folks like to engage with them, for a variety of reasons. Their own buttons got pushed; or cat&mouse practice; or nothing better going on in the forum...there are slow times, sometimes.

 

In my opinion, IF a 'knowledgeable, experienced' person left JUST BECAUSE of a troll - that person probably needed a break from posting for a while and may or may not come back. Some of us have been doing this, here and elsewhere, for decades and after a while it's just the same thing over and over...lol. As you've discovered - there are still many good folks around, and some of us will never leave...haunting TDB appropriately. B)

 

It's all good. Even when it's not.

Warm greetings!

 

  

 

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Walking back home this morning, I picked up a loaf of dog shit from our yard and put it in the flowerbed. 

While carrying it, in utter fascination, I peered into the smeary fabric of the loaf and smiled broadly in recognition of my own nature... the resonance of a similar loaf, resting steamily in my own abdomen.  The very decay of which, powered me on my walk to breakfast with my son...

 

I smiled in recognition of my own natural state and at the deep smell of Dao wafting from it.

 

How utterly incredible that decay should nourish life!

How utterly beyond belief that there should be anything at all!

 

This moment in your gut, Dao.

In your toilet, Dao.

In your words, Dao.

In your silence, Dao.

 

The only impossible thing, is for you, or anyone to ever be separated from it by even a hair's width... ever.

 

Relax into beingness and cease this senseless search, the only product of which, is to cloud that which you are searching for...

 

 

or not. :P  how what the fuck should i know

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LOL @silent thunder

 

We should have the option of clicking more than one response button.

Like and Laughter both! (you know, same time, heheh)

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1 minute ago, rene said:

LOL @silent thunder

 

We should have the option of clicking more than one response button.

Like and Laughter both! (you know, same time, heheh)

I shit you not...  I was just thinking that exact thing, moments ago, about your last post in the DDJ verse 81 thread.  Wishing I could like and thank it... both same time

 

rofl

 

*shakes head and smiles*

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57 minutes ago, escott said:

I would be very sad to see knowledgeable, experienced people leave because of a few trolls.

 

Just personally, I think experienced people have a duty to stick around and contribute what they know to discussions; and I think they should become capable of rising above reacting to others, and instead - live intentionally.

Anyone who's been here for a short while knows how to take a break from the forum if they need it, and then return and enjoy the place again. We're all human and get pissed at the ignorance of others every now and then...but with time and experience in dealing with this, and with spiritual disciplines, I think we can become better at it.

 

57 minutes ago, escott said:

What do trolls want most? ATTENTION. Am I wrong to think that if you just ignore them they will go away.

 

Seems to me like trolls don't go away even if everyone is ignoring them. The smallest bit of attention feeds them, but being ban hammered starves them.

 

I was once banned, and as a condition of returning I said that I wouldn't question moderator decisions again (in addition to behaving better). I believe in the capacity for anyone to reform themselves...but also believe in the enforcement of forum rules, for the sake of maintaining a certain level of quality here.

 

But in stating this, as I just said - I'm not questioning anything mods decide on this topic. What they do is final, as far as this forum is concerned.

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Quote

TDBs' Cultural Context and Founding Principles
The purpose of this document is to concisely state the most fundamental framework principles that give TDBs it's distinctive shape.  This is not "all the rules, permutations, etc",  just the steel beams.

TDBs exists in the general field of "The Search for Truth".
The Usual organized formats (schools) for The Search tend to have:
    1. focus exclusively within a school
    2. hierachical learning structure, hierachical ability to speak
TheDàoBums' founding principles form a deliberate cultural counter-point:
    1. run independently of any school, which allows a more eclectic atmosphere
    2. conversational learning, egalitarian ability for members to speak
TDBs' social format is "cafeteria", not "classroom".  It's part of TDBs' premise that, broadly in culture, these two formats are necessary, distinct yet complementary.


TheDàoBums has a strong egalitarian ethic in that it's whole purpose is to provide a civil very open context for member conversations.  However, its governance structure is mostly top down; it's not a democracy.
- admins - own / run the board
- moderators - enforce rules
- members - converse  :)

TDBs' Conversational Context:
1. At TDBs member participation in conversation is non-hierarchical.  Meaning, members have equal ability to talk regardless of level of knowledge, achievement, or status / credentials of any kind.  TDBs has an underlying ethic of valuing the communication of each person.

2. TDBs most basic rules about conversationare around civility (leaving enough flexibility for lively debate).  A moderator's basic role is to moderate members' uncivility toward each other in coversation.  Members support this process by 'reporting' offending posts.

A fictional example of how 1&2 shake out:
If there's a TDBs debate about music between Mozart vs a beginning piano player, and it becomes heated enough that reports are generated for moderator consideration then, still, "level of knowledge, achievement, or status" are not basis for moderation.  Civility is, applied equally to each member.

It's up to each member, not moderators, to sort out the truth (and other questions of quality) for themselves in conversation.  Moderators just keep the conversation civil within reasonable limits.  For issues of staff bias, members can contact the current admin.

The staff (admins, moderators) also deserve and have protection against uncivility and against abuse of staff resources.  Staff protection is enforced at the discretion of the admin.  The admin also has broad discretion to protect the civility and resources of any aspect within TDBs e-community.

 

signed,

- Trunk, author & past admin

- Sean, owner & admin of TheDàoBums

- Viator, past admin

- Dawei, admin

Edited September 6, 2018 by dawei

 

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1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Walking back home this morning, I picked up a loaf of dog shit from our yard and put it in the flowerbed. 

While carrying it, in utter fascination, I peered into the smeary fabric of the loaf and smiled broadly in recognition of my own nature... the resonance of a similar loaf, resting steamily in my own abdomen.  The very decay of which, powered me on my walk to breakfast with my son...

 

I smiled in recognition of my own natural state and at the deep smell of Dao wafting from it.

 

How utterly incredible that decay should nourish life!

How utterly beyond belief that there should be anything at all!

 

This moment in your gut, Dao.

In your toilet, Dao.

In your words, Dao.

In your silence, Dao.

 

The only impossible thing, is for you, or anyone to ever be separated from it by even a hair's width... ever.

 

Relax into beingness and cease this senseless search, the only product of which, is to cloud that which you are searching for...

 

 

or not. :P  how what the fuck should i know

Sounds like a bunch of shit to me... BUTT what do I know about TAO anyway. :P

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2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

And a member that has done that has just left the bums. More than one has called him valuable. 

Oh yeah? Who is that?

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30 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

 

 

Quote

TDBs' social format is "cafeteria", not "classroom".

 

I've been waiting 11 years for my cappuccino.  The service round here is dreadful.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

34546xz.thumb.JPG.f70b91879ee62b9949732a62a993b9bd.JPG

I think the ignore list can be a smart way of dealing with the problem, but it also seems like a beginners way.  Ie slightly more advance is just ignoring them, not reading there posts.. taking there bait. 

 

Even higher then that is reading them and having a high enough perspective so that it doesn't bother you.  You have the freedom to answer or not, without it disturbing you later on, and the intelligence to leave it alone once you've made your point.  Hard because we all have our buttons.

 

In that way, the trolls have something to teach us.  And its good to realize sometimes we are the trolls or at least act trollishly ** sometimes, and thats okay, if done sparingly cause its part of life. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**Here's another word I should patent inorder to get filthy rich.  No one use trollishly**, its mine. 

does quick internet search.. r a t s. 

 

Edited by thelerner
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, lifeforce said:

There are certain individuals here who bring nothing to the table.

Nothing constructive, nothing about life experiences or practices or anything to do with the Dao.

 

6 hours ago, lifeforce said:

but it's another thing to be told that your opinion has no value, that you are wrong, that you don't matter,

 

This and this, is a direct contra-argument. First you claim that someone is worth nothing based on your personal opinion / experience.

Next, you complain, the someone said that to yourself / your friend, and claim yourself being a victim.

You did this in a thread of Flowing Hands who was openly flaming / insulting another member of this forum, for their practice / views.

I never flamed or blamed FH himself, I asked him few simple questions and made some solid arguments about his practice, that he could not answer, because his practice has serious flaws and is simply dangerous. You could say that I was helping him back in that thread, and he refused a saviour hand due to his 35+ years of belief into illusion. If you support his practice, you also support something that is very dangerous for beginners.

 

I don't have to agree with anything you say, nor do I have to give you any respect. I am keeping the forum rules, and staying from any personal insults. But I cannot see you or flowing hands answering a single argument out of 20+ I have made and others made too. Rather some selfish desire, to see the world around fitting your own image. All you do is hide and avoid questions / arguments, that could shake your 30+ years fixed image.

 

 

Edited by GSmaster

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, thelerner said:

ignore list can be a smart way of dealing with the problem

 

It just makes it much easier browsing / surfing the forum, as some people just spam posts without any kind of thought. Some are like radio on repeat, saying same things over and over again. Once you read it twice, reading it other 9998 times is unnecessary.

 

You could still press (show the ignored post) and read it. It is like a priority reading. Tbh, it is not possible to read all the posts on the forum. Which is also one of the reasons, I have stopped deleting them. Hopefully, nobody just goes and reads all my posts, as I have shared way too much valuable information in them.

Edited by GSmaster
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stosh said:

Abandon hope , all ye who enter here. 😉

 

"But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat:

 

"we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."


"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.


"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.” 


― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Edited by windwalker
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11 hours ago, Apech said:

I too would like to protest about unnamed persons posting unspecified comments on various threads.

It's outrageous and should be stopped.

I call on the moderators to take wide ranging yet undefined actions over unlimited timescales.

For goodness sake this cannot go on.

 

 

 

:D 

 

 

 

hD8CA7BED

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8 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

I've been waiting 11 years for my cappuccino.  The service round here is dreadful.

They are mostly serving pie. 

All you can eat. 

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Trolling is a spiritual practice and it brings benefit, the skill of trolling is same as skill in cultivation, it can grow beyond any visible limits. In the end, when you troll the universe, you become divine troll.

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15 hours ago, lifeforce said:

Moderators take note. You really need to get your heads together, this place is turning into a swamp.

There are certain individuals here who bring nothing to the table.

Nothing constructive, nothing about life experiences or practices or anything to do with the Dao.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a social media platform where people are shot down because of opinions and viewpoints.

We all know who they are.

Sort it out please.

Gave this quite a bit of thought today. Not sure why.

 

I understand your feelings and feel bad for you being upset as you have a legitimate beef but this place is not a safe haven and the few places that are all lock step our way or the highway like AYP are pretty boring and dead unless you drink the Koolaid you are out as in subject Verbotten banned unless it has to do with the approved mind set and promotes an agenda often monetary in nature.

 

If you do not already know this I would like to introduce it to you.  IDIC. 

 

IDIC was a phrase coined by the late Gene Roddenberry you know the visionary who created Star Trek. It is supposed to be a Vulcan thing. 

 

The Vulcans (Think Spock)  were warlike and driven by passions ( That were beyond what humans experience in terms of emotion)  which drove them to near annihilation by Nuclear Arms because they could not reconcile the differences between sects and nation states on their planet. Then came Surak the prophet of logic and the reformer.

 

With him came IDIC. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination.

 

This forum is a bit like that.  So what if some get out of hand now and then and act up or insult?

 

Try to remember Infinite diversity in infinite combination. 

 

Failing that well awww fuck em anyhow who gives a shit what a bunch of mamby pamby jack wagon button pushing stuck in their own heads with nothing better to do fantasy people got to say anyhow?

 

Who fries the fish? Who brings home the bacon? Got it?  Get real. This place is a nice hang out but if you think for one moment you will meet an actualized master or someone with something really special to teach you forget it. 

 

There are some very real folks here but you have to leave the screen and get into the world with them otherwise you are just playing games.

 

Try being worthy, be loving, considerate, kind tolerant and patient those are the real super powers not anything other.

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2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Try being worthy, be loving, considerate, kind tolerant and patient those are the real super powers not anything other.

 

Just to clarify, this was generalized, and not actually directed at lifeforce - who I actually have found to be kind and considerate, right?

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Well, ...nobody ever actually masters the Dao. So why require that person to be here?

You master yourself, to be in accord with the Dao, and one can do that in Wonderland , or Publix, or Coney Island... Wherever there are challenges , and freedom to choose.

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Posted (edited)

Actually, the definition of trolling, is "causing reaction".

When you provoke someone for response that is trolling.

It is not good or bad, if nobody is provoked, this place would be graveyard without discussions. Nobody would come here and post.

 

Flowing hands, song of the dao, and lifeforce, (look at this, i can be straight, forward, fearless, free, unrestrained, unfettered, free of delusion and ignorance and, ok.) caused much reaction from others, provoked quiet a lot of lurkers, two hot topics with hundred replies in a day. So technically, the guy complains to mods about himself.

 

Claiming we have to ban everyone who is not in line with imaginary dao, could there be a better trolling?

 

 

 

Edited by GSmaster
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14 hours ago, GSmaster said:

I never flamed or blamed FH himself, I asked him few simple questions and made some solid arguments about his practice, that he could not answer, because his practice has serious flaws and is simply dangerous. You could say that I was helping him back in that thread, and he refused a saviour hand due to his 35+ years of belief into illusion. If you support his practice, you also support something that is very dangerous for beginners.

 

Yo have an awful lot of judgement over someone else and I'm not sure based on what...  What exactly is his practice ?  Have you seen his two videos of his practice ?   Just not sure what the comments are specifically based on.

 

I don't find someone not giving an answer always a problem... I've had bosses and teachers who do that with some discretion so as to force one to work through the issue.  But I'm talking in general and you seem to talk specifically. 

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