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  1. Can We Know Truth?

    Yes , I think it does , but the mechanism is more complicated perhaps than just being habit. I could add more but you may already have such scenarios... and so I am just confirming the sentiment.
  2. This is from the wiki article quoted and was presented as summarized so as not to need a full reading.... The Han-era text Guliang Zhuan described the four groups in a different order, with merchants second after scholars,[4] and the Warring States-eraXunzi placed farmers before scholars.[5] The Shuo Yuan mentioned a quotation which stressed the ideal of equality for the four occupations This article may be getting adjusted by wikip as we go and so it may not remain the same for all readers. I was expecting to go back and directly quote the part where it said that these divisions were not socioeconomic classes, that they were the disparagement by a groups opinion. It dismays me to see you ignore the point of the full text and present a skewed excerpt. You dont seem to get the point that the relative position of the four groups is undefined . Its not even a socioeconomic grouping,and its not a complete umbrella for the classes. The people one figures would tally all the historical data and present a conclusion that had practical relevance .... didnt.
  3. Im offended, I dont think you have proper authorization to use the term ,'youze' which is proprietary to the citizens of NY, NJ metroplitan area...and their decendants ,Exclusively, you dont see us sayin g'day mate
  4. If you read all the way down to the shang description in the wiki article Tt cited , the Low position of the merchants in the eyes of the scholarly elite , was due to the fact that the shang tended to be wealthy and influential. So among the ordinary folk , the intelligencia looked down on merchants because they were actually More successful and influential. Which, in english is called jealousy and slander. In practical terms the shang cannot be said to be of the lowest order socially, nor should peasanthood be associated with land owning farmers in particular. The classes overlap same as the situation for samurai in Japan.
  5. Got a little bit of a huffy attitude goin on there buddy .
  6. Ok, it seems we are maintaining our initial impressions , can we agree on say... burial accoutrements as an objective mark of status ? Any other idea how to fairly decide other than wealth? Because the idea of a peasant being at the top of society sounds more like a Maoist propaganda ploy inserted into a scientific document so as not to get onesself purged.
  7. Yeah , I never heard of this class structure Anywhere. Usually isnt it farmers Peasants at the base, then humble craftsmen , then soldiers, then a jumble of wealthy merchants higher rank soldiers , priests and educators, then nobility... essentially the rarer skill ,the higher status. Besides, Peasants and peons were often Indentured servants ..Essentially property .To escape the manor Youd need some skill to allow yourself means by which you wouldnt just starve To death somewhere. Right?
  8. Mair 19:6

    I know I am not suited to emphasizing the um alchemical reference. I would prefer to crush it altogether. So I would be happy to leave it to FH to flesh that out.
  9. Mair 19:6

    Im actually easy , during a bout, its fair to bang heads, then, you shake it off and you go back to normal. Yeah it looks like that chi stuff, being mentioned but i dont see enough spoken to evaluate the weight that such a paradigm held for these guys.
  10. Mair 19:6

    Yeah, and it was nice having the fresh input of W .
  11. Mair 19:6

    Next day....... So did this thread go well, everybody got to tell their angle , present their view , and come away with a degree of comfort that they have the message in hand ? Their bullet points attended ?
  12. Mair 19:6

    Ramble sounds concerned about the duke , may have teasingly described kuan as short and fat but a helpful advisor. None of this sounds nefarious, but while Ramble cajoles the duke to good humor , the advice of Kuan is still recognized as sound.
  13. Mair 19:6

    W, Yeah Kuan isnt labeled as friend, but he did properly do his charge and answered truthfully. At least he isnt an enemy. I presume they are out hunting together , which seems cordial. Oh, it says they were, and the duke refers to him as Father.
  14. Mair 19:6

    I personally do not think everyone has their own truth, the truth is that which actually exists, and theres only one of that. Which we can accurately or inaccurately mirror in words. Any false representation imo is Daoist antivirtue, thats just where they drew the line about exposure. It counts as an action, an active manipulation for which one becomes responsible for events, as much an interference as actively deciding to commit crime. But this segment should still suggest that the behavioral code of being a daoist had variations. It was not just the formulation of Lao, or Chuang. There was a collective attempt to ...describe what intuitively was a virtuous life. And I think it implies that even those who called themselves daoists did not share a monolithic opinion about ghosts gods afterlife and so forth.