Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Starjumper]

Now I'm thinking that it's actually smart of the mods to not ban Mr. Coffee.  I have my own reasons, which are probably not theirs, but it could be interesting to hear from others: what the benefits are to any and all including him, from not banning the troll.

[Starjumper]

 

Quote

We have to keep the unbalanced people out of our forum

 

YAhahaha.

[Brian]

20 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Now I'm thinking that it's actually smart of the mods to not ban Mr. Coffee.  I have my own reasons, which are probably not theirs, but it could be interesting to hear from others: what the benefits are to any and all including him, from not banning the troll.

Sunlight has a cleansing effect.  Allowing -- nay! encouraging -- ilovecoffee to be as transparent and forthcoming as he is able paints a powerful portrait of him and, more significantly, of the MPG group.  If he were banned and these threads relegated to the ash heap of history, the readers of this forum (which is a tremendously larger group than the active posters) and the innocent searchers for MoPai (since this is one of the most prominent search engine results on the topic) would be less likely to see things clearly from a casual perusal.

 

One thing I noticed, by the way, is that their forum is either "experiencing technical difficulties" or has chosen to hide the formerly publicly available content there since these "discussions" have been going on.

[Ilovecoffee]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

Sunlight has a cleansing effect.  Allowing -- nay! encouraging -- ilovecoffee to be as transparent and forthcoming as he is able paints a powerful portrait of him and, more significantly, of the MPG group.  If he were banned and these threads relegated to the ash heap of history, the readers of this forum (which is a tremendously larger group than the active posters) and the innocent searchers for MoPai (since this is one of the most prominent search engine results on the topic) would be less likely to see things clearly from a casual perusal.

 

One thing I noticed, by the way, is that their forum is either "experiencing technical difficulties" or has chosen to hide the formerly publicly available content there since these "discussions" have been going on.

 

Although some members are also on neigongforum, that is not our private forum.

[blue eyed snake]

44 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Now I'm thinking that it's actually smart of the mods to not ban Mr. Coffee.  I have my own reasons, which are probably not theirs, but it could be interesting to hear from others: what the benefits are to any and all including him, from not banning the troll.

 

well, for one thing this thread is reasonable civil. It has not been dumped down into the pit/hundun. So there's no real reason to ban mr coffee. ( about coffee, somewhere there is a thread about the use/non-use of coffee and why. Don't touch people' s food preferences  )

 

earlier I already mentioned that it is nice to see mirror-processes on the go, always easier to see when others are doing the mirroring, big mirror here too.

 

But it's useful thread, an overwhelming amount of reasons not to join Mopai will help people/ young guys not to go there I think.

 

edit : typo

Edited July 15, 2017 by blue eyed snake

[blue eyed snake]

8 minutes ago, Brian said:

and the innocent searchers for MoPai (since this is one of the most prominent search engine results on the topic

 

on innocent searchers of MoPai,

there was a strange thread about the possible death of John Chang, i haven't visited the forum in long time. I sincerely hope this thread has been removed by now. That thread felt bad to me.

 

[Starjumper]

42 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

... that is not our forum.

 

Well that's funny, because just a little while ago you wrote:

 

Quote

We have to keep the unbalanced people out of our forum

 

Nothing to see here   ...        YAAAhahahaha

Edited July 15, 2017 by Starjumper

[Ilovecoffee]

8 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Well that's funny, because just a little while ago you wrote:

 

 

Nothing to see here   ...        YAAAhahahaha

 

Hi Starjumper,

 

We have a few members who have membership here but they keep quiet for a reason,  we also have members on other forums related to MoPai, but our private forum is separate from these,  I hope that clears up any misunderstandings.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Starjumper]

20 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

I hope that clears up any misunderstandings.

 

Ah so, you are into clarifying things here.

 

YAAAhahahahaha

Edited July 15, 2017 by Starjumper

[Mudfoot]

Inspired by the notion that there is a WMP practitioner on every forum speaking about meditative arts, I found an old Sean Denty post on the Shaolin Wahnam site. It spoke about the levels :

 

1) Fill the LDT with yang qi. 

2) Compress and continue. 

3) Sever the six chords that holds the LDT in place. When this is done. The LDT will be able to move in your body,  AND KARMA NO LONGER AFFECTS YOU!  Kind of useful... 

4) Move the LDT down to the Huiyin. 

5) Merge yin and yang. This should get a rather large reaction , which is known to kill practitioners. 

 

Hope I got that right. 

 

[silent thunder]

18 hours ago, Arramu said:

Seriously, why don't you guys focus on generating the income to practice all day long? It's perfectly doable if you're *dead serious* about it. Just at how many things are popular on youtube for making money with, their worn out but if you try you or even attempt all slightly you can make an income from it. You can move to Thailand or another cheap country where the living costs are very small, if you can manage to 1.5-2k$ dollars working online or from home or having some sort of business you should be able to live in Thailand or such country for a year or two while you meditate a good 8 hours or more a day. 

 

Seriously, why?

 

Well said mate.

 

Like was just posted in the great quotes thread, this very potent quote seems apropo.

 

"if you really want it, you'll find a way, if not, you'll settle for an excuse."

 

I was drawn to Master Zhou and to practice what he taught me diligently because I was crippled and absolutely had to find a way to be able to walk again normally.  To be able to run and jump and play with my son, who was five at the time.

 

Two surgeries saved my left foot from having to be amputated, but the trauma from the reconstructed the bone and the surrounding soft tissues left me hobbling with a cane on good days, and stuck in a chair on the not good days.  I lived in pain for years before the procedures and for years afterwards.

 

One healing session with Master Zhou had me able to start practicing daily with discomfort, but stable enough to really engage in the process.  Daily practice, even for a short time each day at the same time, gathered inertia to the very subtle energetic matrix of the practice.  Within months, I was walking normally again.  Another few months and I noticed not just my ankle had healed, but all of my old nagging injuries from a lifetime of hard martial arts, rock climbing and construction work had vanished. 

 

Several more months and my desire for most social media was intolerable and I dropped broadcast tv and radio from my home life.  My diet naturally changed, my blood sugar, cholesterol and blood pressure all stabilized.  My emotions became more stable and now, six years later, approaching 50.  I work 60+ hour weeks in construction with no pain, an even disposition and much humor and joy.  I wake up with no discomfort in the morning.

 

In the core of my being I absolutely had to find a way to heal and I knew it was possible, even though the dozens of doctors I went to for the years leading up to my surgeries all told me it was pointless.

 

When my cousin mentioned Master Zhou was in California teaching Qi Gong and offering healings, it clicked in my core and I knew in that moment, I had found my way.   That simple practice and one 45 minute transmission and healing session, opened a door within me to manifest healing in my own life.  As Zhou told me... "You are not my patient.  I don't have patients.  I have students.  I'm not healing you.  I'm teaching you so you may manifest natural healing."  Tears of gratitude even now as I consider what his wisdom and dedicated practice allowed me to experience through him.  *deep bow*

 

I sense great passion and desire from the Mo Pai group.  But what I hear from them, is excuses.  About why they can't listen to anyone.  Why they can't trust anyone.  Why everyone else is following some bullshit path of uselessness.  But the only one in your way is you. 

 

And that's fine.  It affects those of us with experience and a path, not a whit.  Because we are living our practice.  It is not just a practice, it is our very lifestyle.  It's resonant in my bones and flesh in every action of my day now.  It's shifted my thinking, my emotional triggers and respones and is reflected in the resonance of my relationships and my outlook on all of life.  My entire life is transformed... again.  And this is not the last transformation.  Just another shift in the process.  The ever fluid, flowing process of my life and my path.

 

I'm reminded of the great quote by Calvin Coolidge 30th president of the US.

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

 

There was nothing wrong with my path when I couldn't walk, on the grand scale.  But for me personally, on the relative scale it was torture and intolerably unacceptable.  I simply had to manifest a way to be able to play with my son.  So no excuse would stop me.  And it didn't.

 

Take a moment to connect with your breath.  Release all the bullshit.  Release every thought you have ever assumed to be true if you can and simply allow a few moments of emptiness to connect to your breath and your core.  It's never separate from you.

 

The one seeming impossible thing to me is for me, or any of us, to ever be separated from Source/Tao by even a hair's width for one moment... ever. 

 

This is why I now find it true that Taoist pursuits are not about adding stuff to my tool box, they're about losing things.  Stripping away all the assumptions and energetic matrices built up by non real thought matrices over time.  Thoughts of others that I was compelled to agree to, thoughts that come from my own illusions.  Some of them from my very perceptual experiences, born of believing thoughts that aren't real, true or even important.

 

It's not about knowing the path.  I don't know my path.  I am the path.  I am the way. 

 

So try it... empty the self, be the breath and in that core.  What is authentic cannot fall away... so release everything and be open to what remains and in my case, that which remains is unfailingly my core essence. 

 

This led me to Masters Zhou, Wang Li Ping.  My wife of 28 years.  My life's passions and my own innate natural power.

 

And no argument or statement from anyone else can shake it, because I know their words are just reflections of their thoughts and this next point has been crystallized for me as vajra.  A flash of insight that is unignorable which illuminates a truth as hard as diamond.

 

Thoughts aren't real.  They're just thoughts.  We have 90,000 a day.  Nothing about them is real, true or even important.

 

I don't know my path.  But I walk it.  I am it.

 

Simple being.

 

most of my practice now has fallen away from forms, but has expanded into every step and moment of my life.

 

Master Zhou shared this with me.

 

Kind Heart 

Quiet Heart

Sincere Heart.

 

With these, all of life becomes practice.  Without them, we're just waving our hands in the air.

 

What do you Love?  I guarantee your path is linked to that.

and it's never even a hair's width away from you... ever.

 

[Earl Grey]

Someone please give silent thunder a drink and a round for all of us. That deserves a toast. 

[silent thunder]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Someone please give silent thunder a drink and a round for all of us. That deserves a toast. 

Much Love Mate! 

[blue eyed snake]

3 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

"You are not my patient.  I don't have patients.  I have students.  I'm not healing you.  I'm teaching you so you may manifest natural healing."  Tears of gratitude even now as I consider what his wisdom and dedicated practice allowed me to experience through him.  *deep bow*

 

 

thanks silent thunder, for saying it soo well

 

I bow, not to you, but to the way that you are

[Ilovecoffee]

.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[小梦想]

.

Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, 小梦想 said:

It isn't the fact that you see things differently that causes concern, it's the fact that you try to state your way of seeing and believing is correct and the only way to see things.

It isn't always what you write, but what is insinuated that is the issue. Your truth is your truth alone and when a whole group of people see your truth as untruth then you need to consider that maybe your truth isn't what you thought it to be. 

 

You make statements that are not productive to others who want to learn meditation which then creates a requirement to at least put a different perspective up for others who may not know to read and consider.

 

Nowhere does it say is any of the books nor the video that 10 hours are required and if you can't do long periods of time then you shouldn't train at all.

In fact, the video of john chang where they ask him if he is special, he replies that is is meditation EVERY DAY. In the Magus of Java when Kostas talks about stories John Chang told him, he specifically says that his ability to meditate for long periods of time didn't happen until he went off into the jungle. Then he found himself doing 4 hours at a time and then 6 and then longer. This implies up to that point he never could do more than 4 hours and he was already level 3 at this stage. 

 

When Kostas talks about john when he started training, John would get in trouble if he hadn't trained that day, and how his teacher was always able to tell if he had trained. This alone would imply that he was specifically instructed to train every day, not once was it implied that he had to train for 10 hours, but train as long as he was able.

 

If you don't consider my words, then consider that of John chang and Kostas where they actually talk about time spent in meditation. Are you really going to argue with what John Chang himself said.

 

FYI, when john started training, he did horse stance only for at least 6 months. Wonder if horse stance is somehow significant. I know what it does and why he was required to do it, but do you? Do any of your group know why he was required to do horse stance, or do you just assume it was a test of his character and commitment. Is this another assumption of MPG that  he bullies people into accepting as fact. I say so so that is how it is, and if you disagree with anything I say then you aren't the type of person who should be learning Mo Pai. He rules your group like a dictator and everyone follows and agrees out of fear that they may be excommunicated and lose the "only real training available". It is sad, but he is so wrong on so many levels and doesn't allow anyone to question him. Just read some thread on Neigong forum for anyone who doesn't believe me.

 

People who all make the same mistake, will have the same exact outcomes. Feeling stuff internally doesn't always point to accomplishment, but sometimes points to mistakes turning into health issues. They don't really manifest as big health issues straight away, but over time will become small issues like allergies, or constant soft stool, cold hands, anything really. Later they will become big issues but western medicine doesn't find things till they cause considerable issues. 

 

An easy to way to know if I am correct is to go and see any local Chinese medicine doctor. They can check imbalances in your system. If you training is doing all the good you think it is, then that doctor shouldn't find any deficiencies or blockages.

 

No need to reply, I don't necessarily write replies to you for your benefit or because I like to argue. I just write so that information that is my truth, is available to others reading this thread. 

 

 

Small Dream,

 

Literally, all we do is review what Chang told Kosta and Jim, and nothing more.  That is it.

 

We all practice as much as our lives allow for, and we are all working to do our best to better ourselves and get to a point where we can focus on training full time.

 

Our experiences are not internal feelings.

 

We are doing our best, and if you disagree then you disagree.

 

I hope your practice works out well for you, but you and I are done arguing.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[thelerner]

Moderator- Warning To All

 

If you've stated your piece, made your argument known, then walk away.  Don't keep picking at the same arguments til they bleed.   I ask all sides to stop any pettiness and insults and move on.  Find another subject cause this one has been picked over well enough.

 

If participants have nothing positive to say then please take a break from this thread.  Put your energy elsewhere, preferable into something positive because there's been enough negativity here. 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

Asked to step down, 

the pain is strong. 

When will it come again, 

a thread so long? 

[小梦想]

.

Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Jox]

On 7/13/2017 at 5:24 PM, Earl Grey said:

4) The more you talk, the more you should be quiet.

 

[Marblehead]

Yep.  And sometimes it is better to back off than to stand fast.

 

[Chang]

Forty One Pages!

Have we got anywhere or learned anything?

 

"For in and out, above, about, below,
‘Tis nothing but a Magic Shadow-show,
      Play’d in a Box whose Candle is the Sun,
Round which we Phantom Figures come and go."

 

It is a sad fact that we are drawn to More Pie threads in much the same way as a moth is drawn to the flame. In all honesty the subject interests us, amuses us and infuriates us in equal measure but can we say that it leads us anywhere? The answer is always no.

 

I must admit that the latest (in an ever increasing line) of More Pie Jihadi's is a most polite fellow - which accounts for his extended survival on the forum. But it is all "Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel." Ilovecoffee must be getting as dizzy as the rest of us.

 

 

[Starjumper]

20 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Someone please give silent thunder a drink and a round for all of us. That deserves a toast. 

 

Normally I would skip such a long post in a thread like this, but thanks to your comment I went back and read it.  It is excellent and is similar in many ways to my path.  I wasn't disabled, but I was an emotional wreck and generally a physical basket case.  Thank you Silent Thunder for sharing.

[Ilovecoffee]

8 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

When a statement is made: " Literally, all we do is review what Chang told Kosta and Jim, and nothing more.  That is it." yet huge aspects of mo pai are ignored that are included in both books from kostas and the video on John Chang then certain questions should be raised. Especially when they see themselves as different, yet insinuate they or/and what they do is superior to other arts.

If for no other reason than making it clear to newcomers that their views are their own, the training methodology that they use is their own and the art of western mo pai is not the same as real mo pai despite them saying it is. At the very best it is a blend of Mo Pai, kostas, jim and MPG(though he has the most input with the least amount of ability).

 

Best case scenario their methods put people who try their methods and methodology off meditation, worst case people cause physical and mental health problems. 

 

Not a single answer has been given as to why they ignore important aspects of the lineage. They feel a master should prove himself by STRIPPING to his underwear and allowing them to use a metal detector on him to prove he isn't a fraud, yet they cannot even ANSWER simple questions that per their "teachers" can cause permanent injury if not followed.

 

If I am leaning towards breaking an actual forum rule please let me know and I will stop.

 

I do the same training as you, yet hold no warped view of reality nor do I embellish the truth. Being level 3 does very very little change to a person. You can try and pretend somehow you and your classmates are now somehow magical powerful beings, and a good amount of people will believe it because they want it to be true, but me and you both know being abducted by aliens is 1000 times cooler than anything your lot can do/ pretend to be able to do.

 

I know you think you are being truthful, and I can see that you cannot comprehend some of the things that are pointed out so you are not doing things totally on purpose I guess. I child who doesn't have the mental capacity to do higher level math isn't to blame for not being able to comprehend something above his intelligence level.  Not everyone can be theoretical physicists and not everyone can self evaluate before they require the need of it.

I do wish you well, yet not in the same sense that you may think. I wish you health, and really hope I am wrong regarding what this training is doing to you guys. I wish you and your whole group health, both physical and mental and I can say that honestly.

 

Do your best then, do it without coming on here and making absurd claims then refusing to justify them. Just recently members from your group were near enough shouting on here that anyone who makes the claim they can do anything should put up or shut up. If you don't want to answer any questions, don't make any claims at all. 

 

Ok, now I am done. I will do my wasted 30 mins of meditation. I might do another 30 mins this evening when I have some more spare time. A whole hour wasted not accomplishing anything because somehow I cannot reach deep levels of meditation within a 30 min period. How long does it take to fall asleep? Must take you guys hours because reaching the state between waking and sleeping requires 10 hours somehow. 

 

Ok, now I am done haha. Sorry, I was just having a conversation really and never meant to upset anyone. 

 

 

 

Small Dream,

That is the truth. Literally, all we do is study what John taught Kosta and Jim, and nothing more.

What we study is the same as what the Indonesians study, Jim was tested level by level by John himself.

 

About our experiences, we can't talk about them here for obvious reasons. No, we do not think of ourselves as special magical beings as you put it, this is something anyone who puts in the effort with the correct methods can experience.  Our experiences are not hallucinatory, nor are they internal feelings.

We can answer questions, but not here in this environment.

You say you are done and I certainly hope you mean it.

I hope your practice works out well for you.

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Ilovecoffee