Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Jonesboy]

Just now, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

Jonesboy,

 

Unfortunately that is not an option. 

 

We present the best objective evidence we have, with a team of scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud.

 

We invite others who accept this evidence to come see for themselves.

 

That's the best we can do. 

 

If you are convinced it's a hoax, don't pursue it.

 

 

 

 

You have no proof that fraud was ruled out.

 

All you do have is them filming the demonstration. That is it.

 

The findings is what would prove fraud or not.

 

See the difference?

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

You have no proof that fraud was ruled out.

 

All you do have is them filming the demonstration. That is it.

 

The findings is what would prove fraud or not.

 

See the difference?

 

 

Ruling out fraud is an increasingly difficult thing to do.

 

There are people you could fly up to the upper atmosphere, and would believe what they were seeing was a hoax created with LCD panels outside the windows, and that the earth really is flat.

 

This doesn't rule out fraud, but even if John had been taken to a university and x-rayed, for many people they would still argue fraud. 

 

This is the best we can do, if you don't accept it, you don't accept it.

 

Best wishes.

 

[Jonesboy]

Just now, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

Ruling out fraud is an increasingly difficult thing to do.

 

There are people you could fly up to the upper atmosphere, and would believe what they were seeing was a hoax created with LCD panels outside the windows, and that the earth really is flat.

 

This doesn't rule out fraud, but even if John had been taken to a university and x-rayed, for many people they would still argue fraud. 

 

This is the best we can do, if you don't accept it, you don't accept it.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Nice try.

 

Remember that you only have a video filming the demonstrations. 

 

You have no proof at all that it is real and valid. At the same time there is no proof that it isn't.

 

What you do have is many of his demonstrations being duplicated by normal everyday people as well as con artists. That would give most people second thoughts.

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

Nice try.

 

Remember that you only have a video filming the demonstrations. 

 

You have no proof at all that it is real and valid. At the same time there is no proof that it isn't.

 

What you do have is many of his demonstrations being duplicated by normal everyday people as well as con artists. That would give most people second thoughts.

 

If you don't accept it, you don't accept it.

 

If you find just believing stuff because people say so a better option, then that is what you should do.

 

Best wishes on your practice.

[Jonesboy]

6 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

If you don't accept it, you don't accept it.

 

If you find just believing stuff because people say so a better option, then that is what you should do.

 

Best wishes on your practice.

 

Oh gosh no.

 

I believe in experiencing it.

 

If someone says they can send energy etc. I am always open for a demonstration.

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

Oh gosh no.

 

I believe in experiencing it.

 

If someone says they can send energy etc. I am always open for a demonstration.

 

Ahh, well I hope you have fun with that indeed.

 

Best wishes.

[Brian]

Personally, I think the bottle-breaking demonstration was awesome.  Why won't you talk about that one?

 

Also, after they failed to get a meaningful reading with the voltmeter outside (the images you have posted are of that failed demonstration), he stripped to his underwear and he put one lead on his perineum.  That failed, too.

 

He explained that it isn't electricity, it's chi. (Of course, then he does a fairly mundane electricity demonstration...)

 

He apparently sets a piece of paper on fire, lights an LED and jabs a chopstick into the bottom of a table at his favorite restaurant (but couldn't, for some reason, do that demonstration from the top).

 

Oh, and there's that fascinating bottle-breaking demonstration.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Brian

[Ilovecoffee]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

Personally, I think the bottle-breaking demonstration was awesome.  Why won't you talk about that one?

 

Also, after they failed to get a meaningful reading with the voltmeter outside (the images you have posted are of that failed demonstration), he stripped to his underwear and he put one lead on his perineum.  That failed, too.

 

He apparently sets a piece of paper on fire, lights an LED and jabs a chopstick into the bottom of a table at his favorite restaurant.

 

Oh, and there's that fascinating bottle-breaking demonstration.

 

Brian,

 

Literally there is nothing we can do to convince you, so we aren't going to try.

 

The best I can do is wish you the best on your journey.

[Brian]

12 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Brian,

 

Literally there is nothing we can do to convince you, so we aren't going to try.

 

The best I can do is wish you the best on your journey.

What's the story with the bottle-breaking demonstration?  That chi at work?

 

Help us understand the demonstration where he put one lead on his perineum -- what happened there?

 

What's the typical static charge a person builds just by walking around?  Ever touch someone or something and experience an electrical discharge?

 

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Kar3n]

21 minutes ago, Brian said:

 Ever touch someone or something and experience an electrical discharge?

 

Hasn't everyone? Surely I am not the only one. When I shock someone, I apologize and explain that it's my electric personality.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I will share a personal story kind of on topic. My son meet a  girl who is having heart problems and she was wearing  two devices to monitor her heart rate. She can clock in at a dangerous level of 118. I asked her if I could check it out. When she gave me the wrist thing I asked her what do you want it to say. She said normal range so I made it say 80 then I said I would show it high and achieved the results of 120. The second time I performed the same test but the high reading was in the 1000 and she said wait that can not be right you broke it. It did work just fine afterwards

 

I showed her how to control her heart rate with Taoist breathing giving all technical details. within two minutes her heart rate was 72 and she burst out laughing.

 

No magic, no great ability on my part, she is not a student or disciple of mine. so the moral of this story is any scientific study does not = any kind of specialness or ability it's all just basic stuff with a little proper training and time devoted to the practice.

 

It is when this kind of thing is being sold to others and making someones ability seem like greatness that is a problem 

[Brian]

Thing is, it isn't even that I doubt John Chang or the veracity of the video -- I just find it so bizarre to the point of absurdity that MPG'S posse says we want people to experience this for themselves because it will change the entire planet but first you have to accept this video as irrefutable proof that our system is unlike all those bogus make-believe systems that just want you to experience it for yourself without objective evidence first.

 

 

Ummmm...

 

What???

 

 

Wonder what John Chang and the real MoPai would think about this curious requirement for membership in their little club?

[Ilovecoffee]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

Thing is, it isn't even that I doubt John Chang or the veracity of the video -- I just find it so bizarre to the point of absurdity that MPG'S posse says we want people to experience this for themselves because it will change the entire planet but first you have to accept this video as irrefutable proof that our system is unlike all those bogus make-believe systems that just want you to experience it for yourself without objective evidence first.

 

 

Ummmm...

 

What???

 

 

Wonder what John Chang and the real MoPai would think about this curious requirement for membership in their little club?

 

 

Brian,

 

Our mindset is that personal testimony is unreliable.   Even if millions of people believe something, that doesn't mean it is true.

 

Objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, is something that is necessary at least for us before we will consider investing our lives into a practice.

 

We do not want anyone accepting anything on faith, or on someone else's personal testimony.

 

For some reason, this way of viewing things here invokes so much anger and so much hatred, and really it shouldn't.

 

There is no reason being reasonable, rational and down to earth should cause you people to act like this.

 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

First generation WMP: We are following scientific evidence, the rest of you are practicing level zero dead-end practices. 

 

Second generation WMP poster speak about "Objective evidence". 

 

Around generation four, I predict that the term is"documentary". 

 

And you guys will just be another fringe New Age group, cut of from lineage and tradition. 

[Aeran]

At least they've abandoned the claim that it's scientific. That's progress.

[Chang]

6 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

Brian,

 

Our mindset is that personal testimony is unreliable.   Even if millions of people believe something, that doesn't mean it is true.

 

Objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, is something that is necessary at least for us before we will consider investing our lives into a practice.

 

We do not want anyone accepting anything on faith, or on someone else's personal testimony.

 

For some reason, this way of viewing things here invokes so much anger and so much hatred, and really it shouldn't.

 

There is no reason being reasonable, rational and down to earth should cause you people to act like this.

 

 

 

 

Does this not set the alarm bells ringing and suggest to you that you are in fact unreasonable, irrational and not in the least down to earth?

[Marblehead]

No alarm bells, no jingle bells, no wedding bells.  Nothing but silence.

 

 

[Mudfoot]

38 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

No alarm bells, no jingle bells, no wedding bells.  Nothing but silence.

 

 

Its stillness, the place where stuff happens. 

 

The opposite of TDB. 

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Its stillness, the place where stuff happens. 

 

The opposite of TDB. 

Yeah, but on the other hand, this place is precious as it gives us the opportunity to test our understandings against the understandings of others.

 

Of course, it's important that we pay attention to any feedback we might get.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Mudfoot]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, but on the other hand, this place is precious as it gives us the opportunity to test our understandings against the understandings of others.

 

Of course, it's important that we pay attention to any feedback we might get.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I tend to dodge that myself. 

But I am the bad example. 

[Kar3n]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, but on the other hand, this place is precious as it gives us the opportunity to test our understandings against the understandings of others.

 

Of course, it's important that we pay attention to any feedback we might get.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Eargasmic feedback!

Thanks, I really like their sound.

[steve]

7 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

Brian,

 

Our mindset is that personal testimony is unreliable.   Even if millions of people believe something, that doesn't mean it is true.

 

Objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, is something that is necessary at least for us before we will consider investing our lives into a practice.

 

We do not want anyone accepting anything on faith, or on someone else's personal testimony.

 

For some reason, this way of viewing things here invokes so much anger and so much hatred, and really it shouldn't.

 

There is no reason being reasonable, rational and down to earth should cause you people to act like this.

 

 

 

 

I feel no hatred or anger for you or any of the More Pie people, more like disbelief and sympathy...

 

I suspect one thing that bothers people is your efforts to recruit people to practice a system that is a dead end.

That is quite unfair to others not to mention yourself.

 

You know, without question, that you only have access to a very small fraction of the training system and no guidance of an accomplished master to help navigate the subtle and occasionally hazardous paths of energy work.

You know there is no possibility of ever receiving intermediate or advanced teachings beyond the 2nd step of 72...

Yet you hope somehow these more advanced teachings will magically appear someday, otherwise all of your efforts are for naught, and you say you take nothing on faith.

 

And you want others to buy in to this dead end along with you, eschewing other opportunities to enrich their lives with other methods of training because they don't have a videotape of an ohmmeter registering electricity. Meanwhile many of these other methods have actual scientific research to support their efficacy and you do not.

And you call this reasonable, rational, and down to earth?

 

I call it delusional.

 

[Brian]

I think TDB, and particularly some of the more revealing threads, provide truly fascinating character studies.

 

In the most recent example, we see poorly concealed giggles perceived as anger & hatred rather than amusement.

[Mudfoot]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

I think TDB, and particularly some of the more revealing threads, provide truly fascinating character studies.

 

In the most recent example, we see poorly concealed giggles perceived as anger & hatred rather than amusement.

Use more emoticons! 

[Kar3n]

My mind has been boggled, I have done a few face palms in utter disbelief, I've chuckled a like a madwoman, but for as vocal as I have been on the subject not a single word has been uttered out of anger or hatred.

 

I don't do hatred, but when I am mad, folks know it, I do not hold back.