Oneironaut

Eternal youth & physical immortality

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Well, I'd say if you are a jellyfish or a croc then you are set, otherwise, there is work to be done.

 

I have read that folks who are highly evolved spiritually tend to have a younger appearance and are generally more healthy. I do not have the links handy at the moment, but I can look if you are genuinely interested.

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There are also immortal cell lines used in science to study cancer. They never die, but they are hopelessly malignant. There is a good reason for things to die. One reason is to prevent them from transforming into something heinous -- on a cellular level anyway.

 

Physical immortality... I'll believe it when I see it. There are lots of tales around the world about immortal people, and there are a lot of people who really believe in that. They just say the immortals are in hiding because they don't want to be known. I'm dubious.

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There are also immortal cell lines used in science to study cancer. They never die, but they are hopelessly malignant. There is a good reason for things to die. One reason is to prevent them from transforming into something heinous -- on a cellular level anyway.

 

Physical immortality... I'll believe it when I see it. There are lots of tales around the world about immortal people, and there are a lot of people who really believe in that. They just say the immortals are in hiding because they don't want to be known. I'm dubious.

Two other reasons to die.  One to make room for change, very important, without change there is stagnation, entropy sets in and we move backwards.  Two, to make room for our grandchildren.  Without death, things get overcrowded to the point of collapse. 

 

Every cell in our body has a thread that contains how many times it can safely replicate.  Dying of old age is a race to see which organ gives out first, but after 70, 80, 90 years we're dying on a cellular level; our building blocks replicate poorly, causing catastrophe and we die. 

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If you believe in death, you will die.The question is here how you want yourself to be. Do you want look like always new born baby? Or do you want to look like when you were 10 years old? 20 years old? 30 years old? You can really choose if you believe in immortality.

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Two other reasons to die.  One to make room for change, very important, without change there is stagnation, entropy sets in and we move backwards.  Two, to make room for our grandchildren.  Without death, things get overcrowded to the point of collapse. 

[...]

 

Unfortunately, a good reason to die is also a good reason to kill.

 

Maybe the sexual desire would be substituted with self-improvement desire and there will be no longer need to make room for other: imagine people sitting in meditation to get orgasms :o

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Opinion - way too many legends and texts on the topic across the world for it to be bullshit.

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Before proving physical immortality ,why not first prove stopping aging is possible ?

 

People who are after mid-30s will be finding that their hair become whiter, wrinkles more, teeth looser ,bones hollower ...etc, which is a wonderful period to make use of so that they can  test whether the qi they  have been able to mobilize  really  wonderful & effective or not  . If  their qi do cure those symptoms of aging  , even reverse the process , then they  can further talk about physical eternity .

 

In fact, it is in this sense that some latest Taoist masters, for example, the famous Chen Ying-Ling , claim that Taoism is very scientific as it always asks for physical proofs for what it boasts of . Of course, qi already proves that it can cure many diseases in acupuncture , but fixing  a loosen tooth is another story. 

 

More  jing (  roughly sex pleasure ) embedded in your qi,  or more delicacy you feel about it  , or   more  you find it help consolidating  your mind easier...all are  criterion to show you how effective it can reverse aging  . If the qi you mobilize is feeble and dull , then hardly can it make you aging proof. In that case, don't blame Taoism impractical,  blame your teacher or the way you follow..

 

I think aging or death is unlikely  an issue that can be solved in Western medicine  for some critical block, better call it a dimension,  is missing in that culture.

Edited by exorcist_1699

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Time can be reversed on the biological level, leading i.e. to the shrinking of tumours and general correction of molecular alignment in the DNA etc. Tissues can be rejuvenated as I often observe in application of vibrational remedies (homeopathy, spagyrics etc). The methods of internal and external alchemy are designed for that, even though success will vary from one individual to another, due to a number of conditions.

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In order to master extraordinary human development, it is necessary to first master ordinary human development and living.

 

If you must ask a doctor for "help" in any health issue, "health" is a puzzle to you only because all of life is.

 

If you are not 100% responsible for your own health, and must seek to buy it from a professional or authority, you are not free to understand either health or immortality.

 

Same with any other aspect of life, such as simply knowing what to do at any given moment.

 

If you are living in paved concrete area looking at TV or Media for ideas - all this is incomprehensible.

 

If taking "medications" and living on modern "food products" you have yet to become even human.

 

There are very very very few people today who can even grasp the concepts of "health" and "immortality".

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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In order to master extraordinary human development, it is necessary to first master ordinary human development and living.

 

If you must ask a doctor for "help" in any health issue, "health" is a puzzle to you only because all of life is.

 

If you are not 100% responsible for your own health, and must seek to buy it from a professional or authority, you are not free to understand either health or immortality.

 

Same with any other aspect of life, such as simply knowing what to do at any given moment.

 

If you are living in paved concrete area looking at TV or Media for ideas - all this is incomprehensible.

 

If taking "medications" and living on modern "food products" you have yet to become even human.

 

There are very very very few people today who can even grasp the concepts of "health" and "immortality".

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

You forget to mention flush toilets as fledgling contraption to delude people from using proper squat posture for elimination purposes.

 

Modern hygiene is an inalienable part of modern medicine as well as serious advances in treatment of serious diseases. And modern technology gives a lot to allow for exchange of ideas between intelligent people. It is simply your choice what to listen to.

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Wang Chongyang said that people of his day chased after immortality of body but were misguided.  It was better to practice cultivating xing and ming and then although the physical body still remained on earth, the spirit existed in the yu qing realm.

His point is that the body will die either way, so it is better to cultivate the spirit.

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Wang Chongyang said that people of his day chased after immortality of body but were misguided.  It was better to practice cultivating xing and ming and then although the physical body still remained on earth, the spirit existed in the yu qing realm.

His point is that the body will die either way, so it is better to cultivate the spirit.

On Dao Bums one sometimes get a sense that Taoist enthusiasts, especially the younger set, actually believe physical immortality is possible, and they aim to fulfil that under misguided notions - no wonder we often hear of people here losing their balance as a result of simple misunderstandings. 

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On Dao Bums one sometimes get a sense that Taoist enthusiasts, especially the younger set, actually believe physical immortality is possible, and they aim to fulfil that under misguided notions - no wonder we often hear of people here losing their balance as a result of simple misunderstandings.

 

I believe that indefinite rejuvenation is hypothetically possible, but very rarely achieved. I see nothing fundamentally wrong in pursuing it though, some practitioners may in fact increase the quality and length of their life this way.

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On Dao Bums one sometimes get a sense that Taoist enthusiasts, especially the younger set, actually believe physical immortality is possible, and they aim to fulfil that under misguided notions - no wonder we often hear of people here losing their balance as a result of simple misunderstandings. 

Do you have any beliefs that people could ... maybe.. potentially .. normally percieve as 'imposssible'? :P

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I don't have any specific understanding of how long it is possible to live, but one fascinating argument I heard on a Richard Dawkins interview is that the body selects certain genes that have positive effect early in life but predispose the body to failing in old age.  Anyone familiar with that?

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Do you have any beliefs that people could ... maybe.. potentially .. normally percieve as 'imposssible'? :P

Not sure i understand the question sorry. 

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I believe that indefinite rejuvenation is hypothetically possible, but very rarely achieved. I see nothing fundamentally wrong in pursuing it though, some practitioners may in fact increase the quality and length of their life this way.

I'd rather not indulge in hypothetical assumptions myself, but sure, if others would allow themselves the luxury of entertaining various notions surrounding physical immortality, and depend on such notions to guide their practice, then that is their prerogative. Moreover, its not necessary to believe in immortality to observe a clean and simple regime that ensures good physical health, but at the same time, to have the mental readiness that good health does not equal longevity. A doctor friend of mine, an old schoolmate actually, died about 2 years ago. He just collapsed one morning while out on a routine morning cycle, something which he did everyday. He was relatively fit for his age (51 at that time) - perfect lifestyle, diet, mental & physical wellness, materially comfortable...

 

http://www.star-telegram.com/living/family/moms/article3830000.html

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I believe that indefinite rejuvenation is hypothetically possible, but very rarely achieved. I see nothing fundamentally wrong in pursuing it though, some practitioners may in fact increase the quality and length of their life this way.

I would agree that it is theoretically possible. Extended length of life is also the natural result of energetic balance. But, pursuing it as an end itself is based on desire and fear, and as such, one is unlikely to find the balance necessary to achieve it.

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I would agree that it is theoretically possible. Extended length of life is also the natural result of energetic balance. But, pursuing it as an end itself is based on desire and fear, and as such, one is unlikely to find the balance necessary to achieve it.

An immortalist is not necessarily afraid of death, they may simply find an (indefinitely) long life preferable or, yes, desirable. I believe our desires often lead us where we are supposed to go. It could be a successful immortalist's soul mission to do learn their karmic lessons all in one lifetime rather than ending it and again starting from scratch as a baby. They could also keep pursuing some project for which one life time isn't enough. Or just do a lot of good for the world based on their growing knowledge and experience.

 

Maybe some few such individuals really exist? I wouldn't exclude this possibility...

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I agree with Michael, it doesn't necessarily have to come from fear.

 

Indeed, I figure only those who have "gone beyond death" would even have a chance at whatever physical immortality there happens to be

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Immortality training is to improve health and lengthening life to be comfortable in our temporary vehicle into old age. Life and death is immortality.

 

To live in the same body forever would be unnatural and undesirable. To reach realization of being immortal our worldview shifts and changes again.The opposites are harmonized and all becomes one.

 

Once all becomes one, the work is  done and we return instantly to the homeland of the unknown. To achieve this while we have a body is doing a thousand years of work in one lifetime. Is not ONE lifetime another way of saying immortality?

 

When people hold on to life to dearly and do all the "right" things to be healthy in a extreme manner life is taken away leaving those to ponder how could this happen. 

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There is nothing endless, neither bliss nor suffering. Everything transforms from one thing into another, the transformation is endless but nothing else.

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