Mixing Practices

[Sahaj Nath]

bk frantzis also teachs microcosmic orbit.

 

look, i'm never wrong about this stuff.

 

except when i am.

 

lol!

 

 

it makes me wonder why he'd teach that, though. to me it makes sense only after the orbit opens up on its own, 'cuz then you stretch your legs a little and get more familiar with how the directions of the currents affect you. it's the timing that would make the difference. but early on in cultivation training, i'm just really having trouble seeing it as part of the water method.

[Trunk]

to me THAT'S what makes the kunlun practice a true water method, at least according to my understanding. the orbit does what it does without you being the doer.

 

...

 

THAT'S natural flow. and that's the safest, i think.

Agreed, and about the safety, too.

 

Lots to like about this method.

[Yue]

Everyone,

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread. I am seriously considering postponing the MCO in favor of kunlun. It seems to be a very powerful practice. Are there any dangers associated with kunlun?

[Trunk]

Are there any dangers associated with kunlun?

Pace yourself; it's possible to over-do it if you apply over-zealousness.

Slower, faster, it's up to you.

Use your own feel for your own body

+ a little "middle way" wisdom.

[90_1494798740]

Everyone,

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread. I am seriously considering postponing the MCO in favor of kunlun. It seems to be a very powerful practice. Are there any dangers associated with kunlun?

 

 

Don't overdo it at the beginning (or you won't be sleeping for some days/nights; one hour of practice may already be far too much to begin with) and don't forget the closing down. Omitting that or ignoring the recommended length is certainly foolish. The warm up visualization seems to be pretty important, too (espeacially without the transmission). There is no absolute safty neither in life nor in spiritual practices. Just think of Gopi Krishna's story. Use your common sense and don't be too scary at the same time ... but it might still happen that a plane is falling on your head.

[laotse]

look, i'm never wrong about this stuff.

 

except when i am.

 

lol!

it makes me wonder why he'd teach that, though. to me it makes sense only after the orbit opens up on its own, 'cuz then you stretch your legs a little and get more familiar with how the directions of the currents affect you. it's the timing that would make the difference. but early on in cultivation training, i'm just really having trouble seeing it as part of the water method.

 

look at bk frantzis "marriage of heaven and earth" which is only the beginning process where frantzis suggests working with the mco and macrocosmic orbit.

the precept in frantzis water meditations is to lead the chi down first or let it sink down....when you are able to do that you have a good foundation. afterwards you learn to lead energies upwards too. afterwards means, when you have cleared your energy body from blockades through the dissolving process....thats at least my understand of his methods.

 

lao

Edited October 23, 2007 by laotse

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Does anyone have any knowledge of B.K.Frantz water method look like or its practise?

[Oolong Rabbit]

Does anyone have any knowledge of B.K.Frantz water method look like or its practise?

 

I have both volumes of his Water Method on my shelf, but have not delved into them yet. I was so impressed with his book The Power of the Internal Arts that I immediately bought the water method books along with Opening the Energy Gates of your Body. The guy really seems to know his stuff. There's a gal who posts on youtube called SFJane that studied with Frantzis. You can probably get some tidbits from her:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvD2rZjT5CA

 

Edit- FYI (I just messaged her and invited Jane to the forum)

[Oolong Rabbit]

As an aside, I brought up to my tai chi instructor that I had begun practicing Kunlun. She took me aside and warned me to be really careful and to stop immediately if I experienced dizziness etc... She said in her early days she had started practicing the grand circulation despite cautions she received about unsupervised practice. She said got an energy blockage on her back, but kept practicing thinking it would clear and it ended getting much worse. I was informed that it took her weeks of massage and tai chi to clear it out. She also said that people underestimate what practices such as tai chi are doing for them, and chase these other methods. FWIW My tai chi did feel somewhat unbalanced tonight. I still think I am going to stick with the Kunlun though as I actually enjoy it, but I am taking her cautions to heart.

[turbo]

The Kunlun book advises against mixing with other, specifically energy moving, practices. I think a stretching/yoga asana warm up is good, at least for me, to get my body and mind awakened, but I really don't have time for more than some stretching and 1.5 hours of Kulun before starting my day.

[sean]

Edit- FYI (I just messaged her and invited Jane to the forum)

Jane is rad, I hope she comes here. Been meaning to invite her myself.

[Yoda]

Max is at 2 hrs/day... Turbo 1.5... amazing stuff!! I'm maybe, if I feel like it, 15 minutes a day. I'm not taking it seriously until I get to Phoenix anyhoo for the empowerment part of it.

[turbo]

Max is at 2 hrs/day... Turbo 1.5... amazing stuff!! I'm maybe, if I feel like it, 15 minutes a day. I'm not taking it seriously until I get to Phoenix anyhoo for the empowerment part of it.

 

I meant that ideally the process takes 1.5 hours. 10 minutes to sit down get the visualization going, 1 hr of actual Kunlun, then 20 min of cooldown/dan-tien posture. I have never made a full hour yet, my shoulder usually gives out between 30 and 45 minutes. I recently had surgery on my ankle and have been unable to practice for a bit, hopefully I'll be able to get a few minutes in tomorrow morning.

 

Anyone have any ideas about a less than 1 hour Kunlun posture requiring less than 20 min cool down?

[portcraig]

Max has said at the seminars that I attended that Kunlun deals with the downward flow and lots of other practices deal with the upward flow so that is why there may be a conflict. He suggested to take 30 days to just devote to Kunlun without doing other energy practices and then decide if you want to continue doing Kunlun or go back to your other practices.

 

After my first seminar I felt a lot of energy. Then I started practicing Kunlun, Red Phoenix, and the Maoshan 5 elements each day. I definitely felt a change in energy. I sort of felt like my body was full of energy and if I added anything else I might get sick. I had no desire to practice anything else.

 

People who are interested in Kunlun will have to see how if works for them or how to fit it into their lives with their current practices.

 

I usually don't practice Kunlun for over 30 minutes but when I combine Red Phoenix it starts to add up to one hour. I also practice Red Phoenix throughout the day when walking, etc.

 

Craig

Edited October 24, 2007 by portcraig

[bindo]

I meant that ideally the process takes 1.5 hours. 10 minutes to sit down get the visualization going, 1 hr of actual Kunlun, then 20 min of cooldown/dan-tien posture. I have never made a full hour yet, my shoulder usually gives out between 30 and 45 minutes. I recently had surgery on my ankle and have been unable to practice for a bit, hopefully I'll be able to get a few minutes in tomorrow morning.

 

Anyone have any ideas about a less than 1 hour Kunlun posture requiring less than 20 min cool down?

I'm wandering what Max had to say about the cool down period, at the other seminars. I was at the SF seminar and he really didn't say much about it. It even seemed a little hurried in my opinion. He only mentioned bringing the energy down to your belly and yet, in the book, he says it is the most important part of the practice. Sup wit dat?

 

G

[portcraig]

You don't want to leave the energy in the head so bring it down to your dantien when you are done with Kunlun so you can store it there. Put your right hand on the dantien with the left hand over it. Craig

[Cameron]

I'm wandering what Max had to say about the cool down period, at the other seminars. I was at the SF seminar and he really didn't say much about it. It even seemed a little hurried in my opinion. He only mentioned bringing the energy down to your belly and yet, in the book, he says it is the most important part of the practice. Sup wit dat?

 

G

 

 

I AGREE WITH THIS.

 

Not only Sifu Max but Smile also mentioned "Yeah I just do like 5 minutes cool down".

 

LISTEN TO ME NOW AND HERE ME LATER.

 

I don't know if Max and Smile are trying to play a joke on us or what but I have a new rule about Kunlun 1.

 

CLOSE DOWN SHOULD BE EQUAL LENGTH TO HOWEVER LONG KUNLUN PRACTICE IS.

 

I don't know much of anything but I know this "rule of thumb" is more balanced then what Sifu Max is saying..and I feel pretty akward and silly having to say that.

 

DON'T TAKE A CHANCE BUT FOLLOW CAM'S RULE OF KUNLUN THUMB.

 

namaste

[Smile]

Smiling and 20 minutes of bringing energy down is the most important part of Kunlun.

MO practice is a small part and I suspect was taken out of a complete Daoist system. I'm not found of "guiding energy with your mind" practices these days.

Max

(Not THAT Max so stop PM's)

[Cameron]

Ok...Do Atleast 20 minutes close down and smiling like Smile says.

 

I am going to stick to my new "close down equal to kunlun time length rule" but if Sifu Max and Smile say 20 minutes and smiling is enough than should be ok for most people.

[Yue]

What are the benefits of kunlun? Ex. longevity, enlightenment, heatlh, etc. My reasoning for practicing the microcosmic orbit is because it increases longevity. Can kunlun do anything like that?

[Cameron]

Most of us just started practicing Kunlun.

 

As far as longevity..as Smile once said "So far, so good".

 

Comparing Kunlun to MCO doesn't seem balanced to me.

 

There has been alot written about the practice here over the last month. Should be enough to go by..and it's not like the book is thousands of dollars or anything($15..at risingredphoenix.com)

[laotse]

Does anyone have any knowledge of B.K.Frantz water method look like or its practise?

 

here you can get an impression how it looks like :-)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEXtrjhrAgI

 

lao

[Oolong Rabbit]

You don't want to leave the energy in the head so bring it down to your dantien when you are done with Kunlun so you can store it there. Put your right hand on the dantien with the left hand over it. Craig

 

Okay I am really glad you posted this because I seem to be a having difficulty with it. Kunlun really loads up my head with energy. All day yesterday my head felt like it was full of compressed energy. Not a bad feeling really, just a slight pressure and slight tingling sensation on the top of my scalp. I had this happen before while practicing the microcosmic circulation and pulling jing up my spine. Lasted for almost 2 weeks then subsided. I am trying to guide it down to my dantien, but obviously a lot is getting stuck. Is anyone else experiencing this? Does Red Phoenix help? should I leave the energy there? If enough is pumped in will it force the crown or third eye open? I am really quite new to these practices, and a couple years ago I would have said it was BS but I am experiencing some very real phenomena.

[portcraig]

What are the benefits of kunlun? Ex. longevity, enlightenment, heatlh, etc. My reasoning for practicing the microcosmic orbit is because it increases longevity. Can kunlun do anything like that?

 

Max told me that the ultimate goal of Kunlun is for enlightenment or to awaken you. To go back to the source and realize the divine self. There are a lot of other benefits before that, like good health. If you combine Kunlun with the Red Phoenix Max said that you can eventually attain a golden dragon body which is the highest state a Daoist can attain. Max said that none of his Kunlun or Maoshan teachers had been able to do this but when he combined the two practices (Kunlun and Red Phoenix) he discovered that one could attain the golden dragon body. Craig

[Trunk]

... Kunlun really loads up my head with energy. ..

Several feet & ankle suggestions that might not help at all.

 

Lately I've been experimenting mostly with my foot roller, but I've done the same thing with ankle rotations. Bottom line: Occasionally do them for longer (at moderate pressure), until the whole foot / ankle is warm. I mean feeling physically warm. It'll feel supple at the point, too. Then maybe more regularly for shorter sets. I feel that these are good warm-ups (before/after/aside) to assist the earth part of the kunlun practice. (Also what I've said about relaxing~opening the sole during.)