How to build Qi?

[Lukks]

Today I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlxAw6EkBA&ab_channel=DamoMitchell-LotusNeiGong by Damo Mitchell, and in the minute 21:18, from what I know, he refers to the Zhan Zhuang(ZZ) posture as not good for building Qi,  and I always tought ZZ main purpose was exactly to build Qi in the body, so if it does not, what standing static practices build Qi? Basic Wuji standing?

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

 

I recommend watching the full video for context, it's 22min total and you will understand better my question.

 

[Maddie]

As an acupuncturist I have found that the patients who always have the most qi are athletic and just work out regularly.

[Sanity Check]

There is a science youtuber who tracked everything in their diet.

 

Collected their poop. Then lit it in fire.

 

Recording temperature and burn time.

 

To estimate how many calories of energy his digestive system removed from the food he had eaten.

 

This gave him a rough estimate of how efficiently his digestive system absorbed energy from different food sources.

 

Which gave him a baseline for which food types his gut bacteria were best suited to generate energy from.

 

It would be interesting to know whether vegan or carnivore diets generated more qi using similar methods.

 

A shitty situation to be certain.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 hours ago, almaxy said:

Today I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlxAw6EkBA&ab_channel=DamoMitchell-LotusNeiGong by Damo Mitchell, and in the minute 21:18, from what I know, he refers to the Zhan Zhuang(ZZ) posture as not good for building Qi,  and I always tought ZZ main purpose was exactly to build Qi in the body, so if it does not, what standing static practices build Qi? Basic Wuji standing?

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

 

I recommend watching the full video for context, it's 22min total and you will understand better my question.

 

To build qi, do seated stillness meditation. 

[Maddie]

11 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

To build qi, do seated stillness meditation. 

 

That seems to be the opposite conclusion of Bodhi Dharma.

[Nintendao]

We can of course get energy by harmonic oscillation with virtual photons from non-commutative phase space (void). Unless you're already experienced with handling sunspot guts (烏肝), best way to start is get some fresh air and a walk.

[dwai]

The best way to "build" qi is to still the mind.

There are two potential problems with stilling the mind  -

• The mind is scattered (too many thoughts, in too many directions)
• The mind is polluted (very self-centered, greedy, grasping)

The remedy for a scattered mind is to do practices that make the mind one-pointed. Mantra mediation, breath watching, breathwork will help with that. In fact, any repetitive task can be used to do this by being watching and observing the mind continuously through the practice.

The remedy for a polluted mind is to do selfless service - volunteer at a soup kitchen, hospital etc. As we do more service, the mind gets purified.

 

After that, real mediation can start. And stillness realized.

[Mark Foote]

22 hours ago, almaxy said:

Today I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlxAw6EkBA&ab_channel=DamoMitchell-LotusNeiGong by Damo Mitchell, and in the minute 21:18, from what I know, he refers to the Zhan Zhuang(ZZ) posture as not good for building Qi,  and I always tought ZZ main purpose was exactly to build Qi in the body, so if it does not, what standing static practices build Qi? Basic Wuji standing?

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

 

I recommend watching the full video for context, it's 22min total and you will understand better my question.

 

Two things stand out for me in that video:  15:13, where he says "developing the dan-t'ien, which isn't that straight-forward a thing", and 20:15, "that building of the ch'i, which is the time-consuming bit to be honest".

So there you have it.  All you need to do is develop the dan-t'ien, which isn't that straightforward a thing, and build the ch'i, which is the time-consuming bit.  Took him 22 minutes--he's kind of thick, or dense, that way.

 

Ha ha.  Kidding, Damo.  I actually agree with him, although my sitting is kind of crooked and my Tai-Chi is pathetic.  

I guess he's trying to motivate people to practice a stationary practice.  You'd rather just do that barrel-hug, without the barrel?

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Mark Foote

[ChiDragon]

22 hours ago, almaxy said:

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

MMHO It is not what builds chi. It is what you practice to condition the body to generate more chi. Assumed chi is the body energy that one wants to increase the amount of. The practice of any types of movements coordinated with breathing will accomplish the body muscles to generate more chi. Chi is internal energy, it helps to perform the function of the body internally and externally.

He said the opposite that Taiji doesn't produce chi is not quite right. He is right about just doing the moves does not produce chi. However, if the movements coordinate with the breathing and breathing coordinated with the movements, then, the body will be conditioned to generate chi. I have done this for forty years. It can be seen and justify in my PPD.

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Two things stand out for me in that video:  15:13, where he says "developing the dan-t'ien, which isn't that straight-forward a thing", and 20:15, "that building of the ch'i, which is the time-consuming bit to be honest".

He sounds like that chi inside the body is the dependent factor for any practice. I don't believe that was the case. Originally, the amount of the internal chi in the body depends on the present heath of the body. The practice is to enhance the body to have more chi. For that said, the practice is the dependent factor for more chi. It is not the other way around. Peace!

Edited December 12, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Master Logray]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:13 AM, almaxy said:

Today I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlxAw6EkBA&ab_channel=DamoMitchell-LotusNeiGong by Damo Mitchell, and in the minute 21:18, from what I know, he refers to the Zhan Zhuang(ZZ) posture as not good for building Qi,  and I always tought ZZ main purpose was exactly to build Qi in the body, so if it does not, what standing static practices build Qi? Basic Wuji standing?

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

 

I recommend watching the full video for context, it's 22min total and you will understand better my question.

 

 

 

Build up means a few things, increasing the volume of Chi, improving the flow of Chi and improving the quality of Chi.   Movement Gongs, like Taichi and other internal martial arts, can use up Chi too, may be even more than generated when one is seriously practicing.  Statics like sitting, reduce the use and leakage of Chi.   ZZ is in between.  But movements are essential in moving Chi to organs in need, massage them,  clearing meridians,  removing blockages.   The quality is mainly affected by mind state.   Normal persons need a mix of approaches, varying them from time to time.

[damdao]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:13 PM, almaxy said:

Today I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlxAw6EkBA&ab_channel=DamoMitchell-LotusNeiGong by Damo Mitchell, and in the minute 21:18, from what I know, he refers to the Zhan Zhuang(ZZ) posture as not good for building Qi,  and I always tought ZZ main purpose was exactly to build Qi in the body, so if it does not, what standing static practices build Qi? Basic Wuji standing?

 

Or what other practices builds Qi?

 

I recommend watching the full video for context, it's 22min total and you will understand better my question.

 

There are postures in the Zhan Zhuang training designed to build qi but they have a lot of requisites (depending on the goal of the posture, stage of training, etc.). The main one being a low stance, the idea behind this is that if you keep the posture long enough you (somewhat) transform marrow from the legs into qi.

If you have a dantian you store it there, otherwise it circulates in the system.

[Dedicated]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVB4nWi_8w0&t=1000s

[Mark Foote]

34 minutes ago, Dedicated said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVB4nWi_8w0&t=1000s
 

 

As to why the abandonment of intent, of "doing something" has a cooling effect (from a post of mine on another thread):

 

That which we will, results in an object for the persistence of consciousness.  "The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness."  When "we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness", and consciousness takes place freely, according to our nature:

 

There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.
 

(Common Ground)
 

 

... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration:

 

… there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen.
 

(Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)
 

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

Can attest that sitting meditation, at least with the breath in the abdomen, does not necessarily build qi. Sitting is my main practice and I'm exhausted all the time.

 

I *think* that sitting can cause qi to settle. So much so that the energy in the body can stagnate if you sit for too long.

 

I'm looking at 'purging' practices now to clear that stagnant qi, for instance daoyin type exercises.

 

But honestly I'm just feeling my way through this and finding out what feels good and will offer sufficient balance to allow me to sit for longer. 

 

Maybe I should just go for a run and lift some weights.

[Master Logray]

5 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

Can attest that sitting meditation, at least with the breath in the abdomen, does not necessarily build qi. Sitting is my main practice and I'm exhausted all the time.

 

I *think* that sitting can cause qi to settle. So much so that the energy in the body can stagnate if you sit for too long.

 

I'm looking at 'purging' practices now to clear that stagnant qi, for instance daoyin type exercises.

 

But honestly I'm just feeling my way through this and finding out what feels good and will offer sufficient balance to allow me to sit for longer. 

 

Maybe I should just go for a run and lift some weights.

 

I read that sitting too long will make Chi "wither".    I think mixing practices (within your own system) from time to time is necessary.

[Sahaja]

5 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

Can attest that sitting meditation, at least with the breath in the abdomen, does not necessarily build qi. Sitting is my main practice and I'm exhausted all the time.

 

I *think* that sitting can cause qi to settle. So much so that the energy in the body can stagnate if you sit for too long.

 

I'm looking at 'purging' practices now to clear that stagnant qi, for instance daoyin type exercises.

 

But honestly I'm just feeling my way through this and finding out what feels good and will offer sufficient balance to allow me to sit for longer. 

 

Maybe I should just go for a run and lift some weights.

My experience is that seated work after opening, moving and strengthening the body provides a nice healthful mix and specifically makes the seated work better. the teachers that I respected the most always emphasized work with the legs (deep squats - many kinds, low stances, splits etc). They said that a person dies from the feet up  - easy to see this in the shuffling walks of old people. I’ve always enjoyed martial arts movement forms combined with yoga as it seems to both open and move a wide variety parts of the body that aren’t always addressed in more conventional exercise programs. However, probably the most important thing is to choose something you enjoy to do so that it becomes part of your daily practice. Good to have some options to provide some variety as well. Whatever you choose to work on to open, move and strengthen  your body will likely  help the seated work. 

[liminal_luke]

24 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

My experience is that seated work after opening, moving and strengthening the body provides a nice healthful mix 

 

Wisdom worth repeating.  One teacher of mine emphasized the importance of "yin practice."  First he'd have us do the yang thing -- moving, standing, etc -- and then we'd just sit and let things settle.  In Zapchen, napping is an actual practice.  Now, after I do most any thing meant to change my body, I sit, or even just lie down, for a spell.

[Maddie]

39 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

I read that sitting too long will make Chi "wither".    I think mixing practices (within your own system) from time to time is necessary.

 

I think this was Dao Mo's concern when he first got to the Shaolin temple and saw the poor health of the monks from lots of sitting meditation.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

38 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

My experience is that seated work after opening, moving and strengthening the body provides a nice healthful mix and specifically makes the seated work better. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Wisdom worth repeating.  One teacher of mine emphasized the importance of "yin practice."  First he'd have us do the yang thing -- moving, standing, etc -- and then we'd just sit and let things settle.  In Zapchen, napping is an actual practice.  Now, after I do most any thing meant to change my body, I sit, or even just lie down, for a spell.

This is the way. Moving around helps the qi travel around the body but the seated stillness will bring it back to the LDT, will increase the storage capacity of the lower dantien and will create more qi. It is specifically the the seated stillness that will “build qi” as @almaxy asked.
 

Qigong and other standing practices are to move qi around the body, but like you guys said there needs to be a balance. If you only do standing and active practices, you will just use up qi without replenishing. If you just do seated practices, it will just lay stagnant and useless. 

[Sahaja]

Static standing postures (hanging the flesh off the bones) are also used  by some systems to build qi. 

[Vajra Fist]

23 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

I think this was Dao Mo's concern when he first got to the Shaolin temple and saw the poor health of the monks from lots of sitting meditation.

 

I ran through some shaolin forms this morning, and it felt like exactly what I needed. Thanks for the reminder!

 

Will try and keep it up, at least as long as these old bones hold out.

[snowymountains]

On 11/12/2023 at 3:58 AM, Maddie said:

As an acupuncturist I have found that the patients who always have the most qi are athletic and just work out regularly.

 

So "standard" sports training is better for building energy than QiGong?

Sports also consume energy, muscles need recovery, a strict nutrition, sleep schedule etc is needed to support it, otherwise it may lead to collapse

 

In terms of personal experience, if I train too hard (*) in the winter, I just get depleted of energy ( call it Qi or whatevs) and ultimately get sick.

 

This doesn't happen in the summer when I train too hard, it's very correlated to more energy loss to sustain temperature during the winter.

 

Also in the winter if I don't train too hard I don't get sick.

 

It seems like it's all about energy depletion and this is one of the main reasons why I want to learn Qigong 

 

(*) Hard as in preparing for racing, really pushing my self with many and intense training sessions per week.

Edited January 1 by snowymountains

[ChiDragon]

22 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

It's seems like all about energy depletion and this is one of the main reasons why I want to learn Qigong 

Yes, Qigong will help your body to generate energy to replace the energy that was consumed. So, your body energy won't be depleted. Please, it is the mitochondria in the body cells that generate the energy. The more mitochondria in your body, the more energy your body can be generated. To have more mitochondria in the muscles is to do exercise at a moderate speed not to exceed what the body is capable of. Qigong like Taiji is a good slow exercise with the coordination of breathing and movements.

Here is a good example how the body works and mind control with continuous energetic movements.

 

Edited January 2 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Ok I found my sabre demo video.