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What do you consider speaking to someone's spirit? If the person is not conscious of the discussion, how do you know that it is actually their spirit (and not some other spirit or entity)?

Thanks,

Jeff

This is a good question:

 

Their are several parts to this - the seeing and the trusting and then later the knowing.

 

All of us "see" all the time and this is funneled through our cultural filters to the not seeing that we live each day.

At some point in diligent practice - even practice is needed for those born with these abilities full blown, you will attain a fair amount of validation for what you are seeing and you will slowly learn to see more clearly and if you are doing real work, then you will also be working on being neutral in your viewing.

If you succeed to reach a certain neutrality then true knowing will enter the picture - this is a very subtle and broad topic.

 

Among other things, you can also see a spirits connection with the body. You can even perceive if the spirit in the body is not the original one which is sometimes the case though pretty rare.

 

Most of the time it is pretty simple, like seeing a friend - you are not in a vibration that necessitates looking for lurking spirits. If on the other hand the vibration takes a turn - then you may wish to look around a bit, turn the tables so to speak and possibly lay a trap or two.

 

If your knowing is strong then their is nothing to fear - and fear accomplishes nothing - the imagined "evils" lurking about and ready to pounce on us at any given moment are as nonsensical as the idea that God is a witness to you picking your nose. We have such diminished ideas of god and such expanded views of evil - it is childish.

 

One of the most common misconceptions often stated within these walls is the notion of "a puny mere human". There is no such thing. The wonderous and miraculous human is neither puny nor mere.

It is not a difficult task to see the difference between a human spirit and another.

Edited by Spotless
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This is a good question:

 

Their are several parts to this - the seeing and the trusting and then later the knowing.

 

All of us "see" all the time and this is funneled through our cultural filters to the not seeing that we live each day.

At some point in diligent practice - even practice is needed for those born with these abilities full blown, you will attain a fair amount of validation for what you are seeing and you will slowly learn to see more clearly and if you are doing real work, then you will also be working on being neutral in your viewing.

If you succeed to reach a certain neutrality then true knowing will enter the picture - this is a very subtle and broad topic.

 

Among other things, you can also see a spirits connection with the body. You can even perceive if the spirit in the body is not the original one which is sometimes the case though pretty rare.

 

Most of the time it is pretty simple, like seeing a friend - you are not in a vibration that necessitates looking for lurking spirits. If on the other hand the vibration takes a turn - then you may wish to look around a bit, turn the tables so to speak and possibly lay a trap or two.

 

If your knowing is strong then their is nothing to fear - and fear accomplishes nothing - the imagined "evils" lurking about and ready to pounce on us at any given moment are as nonsensical as the idea that God is a witness to you picking your nose. We have such diminished ideas of god and such expanded views of evil - it is childish.

 

One of the most common misconceptions often stated within these walls is the notion of "a puny mere human". There is no such thing. The wonderous and miraculous human is neither puny nor mere.

It is not a difficult task to see the difference between a human spirit and another.

 

Hi Spotless,

 

I am still somewhat confused regarding your post. You mentioned "fears" and "evils", but I am more interested in the perception and accuracy of the information. The seeing and hearing of a spirit or being is really the "mind" translating noticing the energy of the being (would you agree?). Perceiving in/thru the mind is subject to any conscious or subconscious filters that one may have. Just as with healing, one can not heal someone who has greater clarity (more advanced) then they are, or an issue that is beyond their clarity. Remaining neutral can help with conscious obstructions, but not subconscious ones.

 

So, my question is really... How does one know that they are not subconsciously filtering/modifying information from some spirit of a person? Or, do you disagree with the whole concept that I have described above?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

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The answer is to get off the pedestal of 'thinking' and get more into your perception if you really want to see things are they really are, Jeff.

 

One can be neutral and perceive Life without conditioned mental filters getting in the way.

 

If you really 'believe' that others are not 'advanced' enough to for you to learn from them (or 'heal'), then I would seriously suggest you question your beliefs. There is much misinformation spread among so-called 'spiritual circles'. And humanity as a whole has an enormous weakness around misinterpretation. Much of that comes down from the past around religious and cultural misinformation. Spiritual teachers are not immune to spreading and receiving misinformation either, even ones who are considered by others to be 'high level'.

 

The secret to pure cognition is getting out of your own way. It's very simple. It's a secret that isn't a secret.

 

When you really know, you know with certainty. This is what the Sufi's call 'knowledge of certainty'.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaqeen

 

Too much attachment to the discriminatory apparatus of the conceptual mind weakens (limits) the perception.

 

When the third eye opens, there is the potential to connect to our insight for the answers we seek. This is real seeing.

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The answer is to get off the pedestal of 'thinking' and get more into your perception if you really want to see things are they really are, Jeff.

 

One can be neutral and perceive Life without conditioned mental filters getting in the way.

 

If you really 'believe' that others are not 'advanced' enough to for you to learn from them (or 'heal'), then I would seriously suggest you question your beliefs. There is much misinformation spread among so-called 'spiritual circles'. And humanity as a whole has an enormous weakness around misinterpretation. Much of that comes down from the past around religious and cultural misinformation. Spiritual teachers are not immune to spreading and receiving misinformation either, even ones who are considered by others to be 'high level'.

 

The secret to pure cognition is getting out of your own way. It's very simple. It's a secret that isn't a secret.

 

When you really know, you know with certainty. This is what the Sufi's call 'knowledge of certainty'.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaqeen

 

Too much attachment to the discriminatory apparatus of the conceptual mind weakens (limits) the perception.

 

When the third eye opens, there is the potential to connect to our insight for the answers we seek. This is real seeing.

 

Hi Clarity,

 

Thank you for sharing your position on the topic. But, I don't quite see how you got "If you really 'believe' that others are not 'advanced' enough to for you to learn from them (or 'heal'),..." from my questions to Spotless. The reason that I am asking the questions is trying to get/learn a new perspective on the topic.

 

I made a statement of my perspective... "The seeing and hearing of a spirit or being is really the "mind" translating noticing the energy of the being (would you agree?)." and asked if he agreed on the point. Do you agree that seeing and hearing is the mind "translating"?

 

Also, are you claiming Haqq ai-yaqin (total reality of Certainity)? And defining the concept of being equivalent to the third eye opening?

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

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Hi Spotless,

 

I am still somewhat confused regarding your post. You mentioned "fears" and "evils", but I am more interested in the perception and accuracy of the information. The seeing and hearing of a spirit or being is really the "mind" translating noticing the energy of the being (would you agree?). Perceiving in/thru the mind is subject to any conscious or subconscious filters that one may have. Just as with healing, one can not heal someone who has greater clarity (more advanced) then they are, or an issue that is beyond their clarity. Remaining neutral can help with conscious obstructions, but not subconscious ones.

 

So, my question is really... How does one know that they are not subconsciously filtering/modifying information from some spirit of a person? Or, do you disagree with the whole concept that I have described above?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff, you stated the following question:

"The seeing and hearing of a spirit or being is really the "mind" translating noticing the energy of the being (would you agree?)."

 

I would answer no to this - you can be completely out of the body and still see, so the mechanism is not tied to any organic form.

 

You also asked/stated:

"Just as with healing, one can not heal someone who has greater clarity (more advanced) then they are, or an issue that is beyond their clarity. Remaining neutral can help with conscious obstructions, but not subconscious ones."

 

I would say this is quite incorrect on both points:

 

You can certainly help/heal another who has greater clarity and you can heal many things you don't even have to examine in any detail. Lets say a very high teacher asked me to look at him because he is experiencing a headache, someone I consider way over my head. I say something like - "I am seeing something that I don't really understand but it keeps coming up, it is a bowl of something that looks like intestines and the bowl looks like copper or brass with a thin handle" Immediately he tells me the head ache is gone and understands it was a key picture from a previous life that had become energized - a ceremonial bowl being prepared - it was the last thing he was doing when his village was slaughtered and his teacher killed before his eye.

 

Regarding neutrality:

 

It is not a case of remaining neutral - you prepare yourself ahead of time in order to be in a neutral space. Again, you do not remove the resistance singularly and with great depth (unless you want to). So if you knew that you had some dirt in your yard that was discolored and unwanted you would remove it - you would see the top layer and the outsides of each shovel full but you would not see the inside of most of it. You would know it is gone when no colored soil is seen. Then you would fill it up with acceptable soil.

 

This is essentially what goes on in becoming neutral - I would look into my space for areas that are energized by the reading or healing I am about to do and I would release or remove those tensions and stuck energy patterns. A great many of those energy compressions may be unconscious - probably the majority of them.

 

As I do this it may have a very big effect on my space - so much so that I need some extra time getting neutral and also need to keep at it during the reading or healing. I receive a great deal more out of reading or healing than the person getting read or recieving the healing - this is always the case.

I have a pretty good assurance that nothing will be brought before me that I cannot handle and that I am not ready for.

 

Jeff asked:

"So, my question is really... How does one know that they are not subconsciously filtering/modifying information from some spirit of a person?"

 

Experience and also just the general feeling of autonomy.

I do not practice any form of meditation/healing wherein I amp up my body and am working from a transmedium level, though I am adept at it if need be. I do not allow other beings to come in through my hands (unless I decide to).

When you have your eyes open and you are looking at a person - you see them through your cultural filters, your tastes and your judgements - but in general you do not question whether you see them or not.

 

If you have actually given yourself time to be in a neutral space - (and you don't necessarily have to do something, you may already be in a great space), then when you read you can pretty much expect most of it to be like it is here on earth with your eyes open. The exception to this is that you can see through things and the person may appear 30 years younger or as a ball of light and other peculiarities

of the other side - such as conversation - it is more like telepathy but even shorter and more succincet and often with no words.

 

The certainty level can be as great as here with eyes wide open - and it can be well beyond that.

Edited by Spotless
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Hi Spotless,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed answer.

 

A couple of points for clarification, by mind, I did not mean the physical mind in the body. I had put "mind" in quotes in an attempt to use a broader universal or shared mind concept. I would definitely agree that we are not in or trapped to the body.

 

Also, in your teacher example, are you saying that you provided an insight for the teacher that the teacher then used to heal himself? Or, are you saying that you healed the headache?

 

Thanks again,

Jeff

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The moment the picture of the bowl was brought up it popped and his headache was gone.

Popped meaning the energy was released - this is what happens all the time in meditation:

The energy slowly increases on a subtle plane and various pictures and knots reach a vibrational breaking point at which time they pop or explode or release. The unconsciousness is often related to a whole group of pictures or perhaps one deep core picture who's energy you're pushed to recoil from - if you can push through it you will release the compressions and regain considerable life force.

Edited by Spotless
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I made a statement of my perspective... "The seeing and hearing of a spirit or being is really the "mind" translating noticing the energy of the being (would you agree?)." and asked if he agreed on the point. Do you agree that seeing and hearing is the mind "translating"?

 

Also, are you claiming Haqq ai-yaqin (total reality of Certainity)? And defining the concept of being equivalent to the third eye opening?

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

 

I suppose it depends on how you define 'mind'. The answer is both yes and no, as confusing as that sounds. In one sense, our 'mind' translates everything we perceive with the sense organs. On the other hand, direct perception of reality is experiential and requires no translation. However, when we choose to write about it or discuss it, there is always a translation.

 

On your second question, I'm not claiming or defining anything. However, I do have experience of all three stages.

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I suppose it depends on how you define 'mind'. The answer is both yes and no, as confusing as that sounds. In one sense, our 'mind' translates everything we perceive with the sense organs. On the other hand, direct perception of reality is experiential and requires no translation. However, when we choose to write about it or discuss it, there is always a translation.

 

On your second question, I'm not claiming or defining anything. However, I do have experience of all three stages.

 

Thanks. I think we may define "mind" a little differently. For me, everything that "exists" (what you call reality) or can be perceived is an aspect of mind (or universal mind). Awareness is more like a chaotic primordial sea of "light".

 

On the three stages, is it not a progression of deeper understanding/knowledge? Does not one experience Haqq ai-yaqin or not?

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On the three stages, is it not a progression of deeper understanding/knowledge? Does not one experience Haqq ai-yaqin or not?

 

Yes, it is. Yes, one does. Also, one must keep in mind the progression is not necessarily linear.

 

To Spotless' point about 'seeing through things' I recall numerous experiences where I was looking at a person and I could see them when they were 'young' and when they were 'old'. The old become young and the young become old as the veil of time falls away.

 

This afternoon in a restaurant, a friend of mine mentioned something about how she knew a cold was coming on because she would have an aching sensation behind the right eye. What I 'saw' was someone hitting her in the side of the face/head (a past experience of being traumatized). I mentioned it to her and she immediately told me a story of a man she dated who stalked her and hit her on the side of the head, in just that very spot.

 

My teacher saw through BS with laser clarity. He taught everyone in the room (at meetings) how to do this with and without words. There was no pomp or circumstance, only a brilliant and shining Mind of truth.

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Hi Spotless & Clarity,

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

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Yes

 

I can see them quite clearly if I wish to.

 

I do not do readings and I do not do "prove it", and for the most part I do not pry into someone's privacy - it is trespassing.

People show themselves pretty openly and what is put out in the open is for anyone to see if they have developed these abilities.

I am interested in becoming awakened - this was and will continuously be my never ending activity.

 

Remote viewing is easily done, speaking to a persons spirit is also not difficult - you just need the play space to work on your abilities. This work is best done in groups - most spiritual work is best done in groups - it is hard to hide in a group. You will always know if it is the right group for you and you will always know when to leave if that should come to pass.

 

Outside of a group it is easy to pontificate and promote your story - within a group your ignorance and bad habits will surface and if you are truly on the path then these gifts will help you to see yourself and yourself in others.

 

How do you go about finding that group ? Do you seek it consciously (online etc) or is it better to continue cultivating and allow life itself to bring it to you ?

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How do you go about finding that group ? Do you seek it consciously (online etc) or is it better to continue cultivating and allow life itself to bring it to you ?

 

In my case, I had an 'awakening' in college and knew that I needed to find a teacher. I went looking locally (there was no 'online' at that time) and found my teacher. It was a clear case of my being 'ready'. I just picked up a copy of local magazine that advertised for this sort of thing and there he was.

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How do you go about finding that group ? Do you seek it consciously (online etc) or is it better to continue cultivating and allow life itself to bring it to you ?

 

I am sorry for taking so long to respond.

 

I was actively looking for anything with the word psychic and pretty much all metaphysical subjects.

It was in the early 80s - maybe 81 that I was in Berkeley. I was familiar with Berkeley having gone to UC Berkeley a few years earlier.

I attended several things I found in Berkeley probably at Cody's (second floor) or at one of the Metaphysical book stores there.

Somehow I ended up at the Berkeley Psychic Institute. My third eye was already open but when I arrive at the BPI I was immediately excited because they offered a play space for me.

 

The other groups I had been or was involved with we're incredible heady but most of the leaders had never put in the real effort of practice wherein you get real (big) fruits from your labor, so I had little to talk to them about and the students in those places were experientially clueless though amazingly certain of their conclusions. The Gurdjieff / Ouspensky groups were sadly this way then and now for what I am aware of them. They are still exciting though because in spit of themselves they teach a sort of non- dissipation that is extremely valuable on its own and group settings with the correct intent are of immense value.

 

Back to the Berkeley Psychic Institute - it is still alive and well though the founder died in 1995, he was a good friend.

After that big chunks of it broke off.

You can find Institutes that are offshoots of this all over the world.

If this interests you I can help you find someone in your area.

 

(It is so incredibly odd to me that it has taken so long for someone to ask this question)

 

All or at least most of the offshoots and including the original BPI have tele-courses.

 

Unlike many from the robust era of the Berkeley Psychic Institute, I remain good friends with all sides in the political battles that ensued after his death. I had basically left prior to them in the early 90s while remaining close to the founder and his family.

 

I have found the meditation form of the BPI to be the best that I have encountered to my recollection.

I say to my recollection because I had done years of meditation prior to meeting this group and so I may take for granted some of the earlier basics. I am glad I did not meet with them prior to opening my third eye because I studied and learned a great many good teachings that I think I would have skipped over otherwise. (It would have been fun to have met with the founder a bit earlier )

 

I did Hatha and then Raja Yoga intensely for several years and just about gave it all up but then my third eye opened up that very week and the rest is history as they say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I asked this question and lo and behold I live down the street to the BPI. That wasnt the answer that I was expecting. When I asked about a spiritual group that would add as an addendum to my own inner cultivation I just didnt have in mind other people who are looking to expand their psychic powers. In the last few months since I have gone much deeper in my practice I have experienced a taste of the siddhi realm and I am not looking to go further down that road. I intuit the pitfalls all too clearly and I get the sense they easily lead to a colossal waste of time and distract one from the real work of self realization.

 

Any other suggestions ? BTW I appreciate you sharing your story as I couldnt help but think of it I was walking to work today. Please correct me if I am wrong about my assumption about the sorts of people who I would tend to encounter at BPI.

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I asked this question and lo and behold I live down the street to the BPI. That wasnt the answer that I was expecting. When I asked about a spiritual group that would add as an addendum to my own inner cultivation I just didnt have in mind other people who are looking to expand their psychic powers. In the last few months since I have gone much deeper in my practice I have experienced a taste of the siddhi realm and I am not looking to go further down that road. I intuit the pitfalls all too clearly and I get the sense they easily lead to a colossal waste of time and distract one from the real work of self realization.

 

Any other suggestions ? BTW I appreciate you sharing your story as I couldnt help but think of it I was walking to work today. Please correct me if I am wrong about my assumption about the sorts of people who I would tend to encounter at BPI.

I am very happy to hear your post - my post was a concern to me for the very reasons you have caution.

 

The BPI and many of the schools that have come from it can "easily lead to a colossal waste of time and distract one from the real work of self realization"

 

Personally I would advise you to look at the several Awakened individuals teaching here in the Bay Area.

If you are fairly well along self realization is not as far as one thinks.

 

Definitely go to Buddha at the Gas Pump and listen to the over 200 interviews of people Awakening and what they have gone through.

 

We have Adyshanti right here in the Bay Area along with Gangaji and others.

 

The fruits of the 60s and 70s are bringing a full blossoming of Awakenings all over the world!

 

I worked intensely primarily by myself for the first 4 years, but it was in relatively useless groups that I accomplished quite a bit.

The Gurdjieff groups we comically serious and intellectual spoofs but the intent was intense and at group meetings the air could be sliced. Their practice was silly by comparison to my previous work but being at the meetings was worth the effort.

 

The breezy conditions at BPI were a good place to learn and practice with no head trip - and at the time I was there, controlling your energy was something you were expected to learn or you would have to leave. I learned there faster than in

any other school. They also have fun - imagine - fun - I am not a devotional type, and I love to laugh. They simply do not want you to worship them, they teach you to own your space, all sorts of tools that do in fact work and are not majic in the vile sense of that word.

 

It was not a waste of my time - but they did not work on self realization - and it is a pity that they did not.

 

Their is an offshoot nearby - Spirit is Calling - it has made some very good modifications.

 

 

check out batgap.com and also mooji

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Thank You for your knowledge on the topic. I have been to one Adyashanti satsang and unfortunately I did not get a chance to meet anyone there but I did have an experience there that confirmed some things about my own practice. I will check out some of the resources you mention !

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I did Hatha and then Raja Yoga intensely for several years and just about gave it all up but then my third eye opened up that very week and the rest is history as they say.

Hi Spotless :)

 

So have you ever driven your vehicle with your eyes closed, just by using your third eye for vision?

 

:)

TI

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Hi Spotless :)

 

So have you ever driven your vehicle with your eyes closed, just by using your third eye for vision?

 

:)

TI

No :)

 

I have toyed with the idea - sometimes I just want to close my eyes - I could try it on the playa

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Opening of the third eye and other byproducts along the way...

 

I just wanted to point out the title and the reason for the title if it is not self-evident:

 

I never went directly for anything but increasing my awareness and self-realization.

 

My practice was very intense for several years but I did it in a way that I do not think most do it.

First I read everything I could get my hands on - I was a philosophy major and I also went heavy into the theosophical literature, Gurdjieff / Ouspensky and many others (all of Castenada and the like). This immersion into the literature is pretty standard.

 

My early practice was Hatha for a short while and then Raja, Prana etc.

I dove into the fundamentals with little regard for the teachers at the time.

 

Once I got the basics down I meditated heavily with the inclusion of fasting, vegetarian diet, headstands and many postures.

I could do most any difficult posture if I wanted, but my yoga was that of meditation as the most important element, and postures considered a distant adjunct.

 

I came to a point where all of my reading brought me to the conclusion that I should give due dillegence to an intense practice and that I would try to remain neutral during the process and see if the fruits of my labor in any way matched the stories of the miraculous I had read about.

 

It was several years later with meditation and other practice amounting to 2-4 hours a day and more that i finally decided that while I was certainly feeling great and refined and calm and many other things - nothing of the miraculous was occuring.

It was all quit within the realm of good physical and mental practice - but I could have been an athiest and nothing would have particulary changed my mind.

 

Exactly in that same week when I decided I had given due dillegence to the practice and that I would cease the practice - I attended one last meeting at the Gurdjieff / Ouspensky group that I had been working with.

During that meeting my entire head lit up, an incredible energy vortex within the center of my head, telepathic powers and many other powers that have never left me.

 

Since that time I have been in many group settings - the BPI was the longest - at about 12 years.

 

My overall regard for groups has less to do with the teaching and more to do with the value of group work.

To this day the group work at BPI was easily the most productive - and it was fun!

 

I came to BPI with a big background in practice and thought and I had been working with my unfolding abilities for years.

BPI helped me bridge my abilities to a certainty within them by being able to play with them.

It also allowed for a very wide swath of individuals and strong personalities - strong personalities to the point that they practically teach ego enrichment - (a completely different take on most practices).

 

But with this "odd" approach (and exciting airy fun approach) came a daring to be wrong, make mistakes, not be perfect and all sorts of healthy "being" levels that so many of the other teachings lacked.

 

Most "yoga" schools were nothing of the sort - they were not even yoga - they were exercise combined with a teacher that knew next to nothing.

True yoga in my regard is focused on meditation, all forms of purification, breathing and the various postures as an adjunct if desired. I had that and still do.

 

Today I practice Qi Gong and Tai Chi taking 6 classes a week.

 

I came to Qi Gong after starting to create Qi Gong exercises without knowing anything about Qi Gong.

Someone pointed out to me that what I was doing was Qi Gong.

I would suggest to anyone, that they try Qi Gong - it stretches your energy and opens you up like nothing I have ever done on a physical level and with less than 1/2 the effort of yoga postures and almost no difficulty factor (you don't have to be stretched like a contortionist in order to do almost all of the most advanced exercises).

 

For me it was a good choice to move around in teachings and I was a loner in the beginning after getting very strong basics.

 

I am forever grateful to one of my very first teachers who taught me the basics of yoga and said the following which I took very much to heart - and which I believe to this day regarding the basics he taught:

"If you practice these things everyday, they will lead you to uncover all the advanced teachings on your own - you do not have to have a teacher - you are the teacher" (something like that :)

Edited by Spotless
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Eating food and drink before going to bed is simply hard on your body and disruptive to your sleep. You should not eat any semblance of a meal for at least 2 hours before going to bed. If you find this difficult to do - you will generally find that the culprit is your analyzer and you are "self-medicating" in order to knock yourself out with carbs.

 

A useful tip. Gonna start applying it…or at least only eat fruits and vegetables before i sack out as sometimes i work all day and need the calories. Thanks for sharing.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited by OldChi

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It may not be a problem now but eating fruits after about 4pm can lead to some aches and pains in the morning.

 

For people with aches and pains fruits and tomatoes - for that matter most Night Shade plants - should be avoided after 4pm or at least 6 hours prior to sleep.

 

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