Disinformation campaign

[Marblehead]

... and he Insults people constantly.

 

This, my dear friends, is what I believe was the cause for the effect.

 

Vmarco is hard-headed. I am too so please don't think this is meant to be an insult.

 

Sadly, when he has a problem defending his position against an arguement he has a tendency to resort to personal attacks.

 

No personal attacks is an important rule here of late.

 

His last attack, though minor, was apparently, for the Mods, the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

The Mods did what they had to do.

 

Vmarco, when he returns, needs to do what he needs to do if he wishes to not get suspended again. Hey, seven days passes quickly. It will all be over soon.

 

Vmarco could get some really good discussion going here if a better approach were taken. Obviously his current approach is not working.

 

Let us all try to remember that is is the message we should be speaking to, not the messenger.

[zerostao]

Edited August 18, 2011 by zerostao

[Aaron]

But why is Vmarco being singled out? Because some of the prominent voices here disagree with him ideologically? Are there not others like Vajra who have a similar tone and attitude here? Does the fact that some popular members agree with him ideologically influence how folks view him here? Or have people simply gotten used to his way of discourse? Given time, people will probably get used to Vmarco's way of discourse as well, perhaps?

 

I am not talking cudgels for Vmarco or support his behavior but there are others who behave similarly but the mods seem to overlook them. This makes me believe that how a bunch of popular members perceive you is what determines how acceptable your behavior here is.

 

Awhile ago Vaj was banned for insulting someone. Vmarco was actually let off light in my book. The accusations she/he made and the repeated attacks on others was beyond the scope of anything I've seen before on this forum. I'm not saying that Vaj can't get rowdy sometimes, but he's is a kindly old neighbor coming over for tea and crumpets to talk about the weather, when compared to VMarco.

 

VMarco, as Dawei and others have pointed out, is in my opinion, oblivious to what she/he is doing. In fact I think they actually believe they are doing the right thing, which makes her/his behavior all the more disturbing in my book. I do hope that when she/he comes back that they have a change of heart and attitude, but I have serious doubts that will happen. I think we are dealing with someone who fundamentally believes they are right and I have yet to see a fundamentalist treat others beliefs with respect. Of course there is always a first time.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also I don't believe VMarco is a guy. She said some things in a post referring to herself as a she, which led me to believe she was a she. Trust me when I say I was surprised to find that out, not because I don't think women are capable of being argumentative, I'm sure they are, but rather because I always assume that someone with a forceful opinion is masculine. Call it a social bias.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Twinner

[TheWhiteRabbit]

[Zhongyongdaoist]

The plot thickens.

But is it the REAL James V. Marco? I've encountered impersonators during my time on the internet since I was a kid.

 

Below is the product blurb from Amazon.com. This certainly sounds familiar and seems like a pretty tight fit to me. Could someone create a clever imitation on this forum to discredit the author? Maybe, but why?

 

"Product Description

 

How did the Mahasiddha Tilopa manifest flesh on a fish's bones and send it swimming through the air, or GI Gurdjieff put an elephant to sleep from miles away? Freethought Magick explores theprocesses that wields life force to influence duality, both form and emptiness.

 

The author of Full Spectrum Consciousness expands on the Reality of Light, Mahamudra, and compassion through the wisdom of the Nine Magickal Perfections, the Nine Dakini Secrets, and the Laws of Magick.

 

Freethought Magick is rich in Vajradharic perspective and is inteded to stimulate a practical understanding of the laws of attraction, cosmological influences, and freethought spirituality. Other key subjects in this book include: Bodhichitta, danjun, Densities of Conciousness, electrodynamics, Enneagram, Heart-mind, Hopi Day of Purification, Kalachakra, Ki, mc2<c, Sabdana, Shambhala, Tathagata, and the Vidyadhara of Longevity.

 

Uncover Your Light...and Participate in the Co-creation of Peace on Earth.

 

About the Author

JV Marco lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico where he is writing Full Spectrum Consciousness 103."

[Apech]

...

 

Uncover Your Light...and Participate in the Co-creation of Peace on Earth.

About the Author

JV Marco lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico where he is writing Full Spectrum Consciousness 103."

 

Peace on earth but not on TTBs?

 

Oh well we live in hope.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Could someone create a clever imitation on this forum to discredit the author? Maybe, but why?

 

I have never understood it. Apparently obsessed fans tend to imitate people because they like the ideas. They also do it to feel important, since they feel... I am guessing insecure or inadequate?

 

I liken it to the guy on irc in the 90s that pretended to be Jim Carrey as the "riddeler". He didnt have his own persona, wasnt creative enough to create his own. So evidently borrowed from someone else? I dont know how to feel about it.

 

It's kind of like going to take your clinical psychology classes in college and finding out that yes there are people who are necrophiliacs. If you dont know what that word means... Dont look it up it would disturb your mind.

[Seth Ananda]

[Stigweard]

Lol, I would consider buying that if it could help me get a better understanding of his Ideas, but it is probably written how he writes all his posts so, no...

 

But this does explain a lot.

 

He came here hoping to prove his intellectual superiority, as that would win fans who would then buy his book/s. CowTao was dead on point with that.

 

This also explains why he was so intractable in his communication style.

 

If he lost position in a debate, he would be going against what he has put in print.

 

Therefore instead of communicating like a person when someone pointed out his Irregularities, he attacked them personally instead, like a salesman.

 

So his communication style boils down to:

 

Winning = Profit

Loosing = decreased sales

 

That's very sad and no way to get on with people on a discussion forum.

 

Seth.

It's always good to discover the sub-text of a person yes?

 

[Apech]

Did he ever actually mention this book?

 

If he was trying to sell it he would have done surely.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

dopamine levels around here are getting pretty low and I am not talking myself.

 

edit: yet it might be just because of the over all feeling

Edited August 18, 2011 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Aetherous]

As much as I disagreed with him, it's totally not cool to take cheap shots while he's suspended. And to defame his character. He conversed honestly here, and put up with a lot of everyone's shit. He also brought new ideas to the table. I don't think he was just here trying to sell his books...if so, worst salesman I've ever seen!

[Mal]

As much as I disagreed with him, it's totally not cool to take cheap shots while he's suspended.

 

Hey Scotty, we don't always disagree

[Seth Ananda]

As much as I disagreed with him, it's totally not cool to take cheap shots while he's suspended. And to defame his character. He conversed honestly here, and put up with a lot of everyone's shit. He also brought new ideas to the table. I don't think he was just here trying to sell his books...if so, worst salesman I've ever seen!

What are you talking about? He alluded to being a writer several times, and I believe given time he would have publicly plugged them.

He contributed nothing of value apart from disrupting many threads, and having completely bogus Interpretations of Buddhist thought, and again - He attacked everyone who did not agree with him.

 

I Love TTB's and I love many people here that I regularly disagree with. I have had lengthy heated arguments with MarbleHead for instance, but only come out with a deeper respect for him. No one has had that experience with V.Marco. He is a troll.

 

This is not a cheap shot, its just that his agenda has been revealed...

 

Other authors by the way do fine here because they lack the Absolutism in his communication style. Michael Lomax could teach him a thing or two...

[Informer]

I hope he comes back to post. I didn't feel offended by him at all.

[Aetherous]

Seth Ananda,

 

What are you talking about? He alluded to being a writer several times, and I believe given time he would have publicly plugged them.

 

So? I would, too. That doesn't mean my reason for being here is to sell my books. In fact, in the future when I finish my current book, I will be advertising it here! Doesn't mean I'm a salesman. This is a forum for people interested in spiritual information...the more the merrier.

 

And lets look at other posters...such as Ya Mu or fiveelementtao, who almost solely post information about their own material, and who have actual links to their products in their signatures. Vmarco isn't like this at all. And yet, those guys are totally cool with everyone on the forum!

 

So in other words: who cares? Let it go, and try to put yourself in his shoes.

 

He contributed nothing of value apart from disrupting many threads, and having completely bogus Interpretations of Buddhist thought, and again - He attacked everyone who did not agree with him.

 

I think his posts contained a lot of valuable info (which I often disagreed with, but still learned from). His posts in themselves weren't disruptive...it's people's disagreement that was. His bogus interpretations were just as legitimate as anyone else's bogus interpretations of Buddhist thought (which in my opinion, is inherently bogus). And he didn't attack anyone...I often totally disagreed with him, but he never attacked me. He always communicated calmly and intellectually, as far as I saw.

 

I Love TTB's and I love many people here that I regularly disagree with. I have had lengthy heated arguments with MarbleHead for instance, but only come out with a deeper respect for him. No one has had that experience with V.Marco. He is a troll.

 

I think he needs more of a chance.

 

This is not a cheap shot, its just that his agenda has been revealed...

 

...in your opinion.

 

Other authors by the way do fine here because they lack the Absolutism in his communication style.

 

Yes, that seems to be his main "problem"...but it's not something we can necessarily change about it. And being that way doesn't go against the forum rules or anything...so we might just have to learn to get used to him!

[JustARandomPanda]

As I read the thread, I also observed that many people chose to continue to react to his arguments and further provoke his entrenched aggressiveness and defensiveness by continuing to engage with him. There is an ignore user function that I use quite alot if someone becomes annoying.

 

*Stands up and cheers*

 

OMG. Someone has finally come out and said what I thought during this and other Vmarco-participated posts! Sooo many people just can not seem to stop themselves from hitting that Reply button to someone who ticks them off.

 

I have tried on several occasions to remind people the Ignore function works and to take full advantage of it. If more people actually USED it I think we would indeed see less modding to ever come up. But unfortunately human nature doesn't seem to work that way. Fewer people than I thought can walk away from a thread that devolves.

 

I myself have suffered far worse, very personalized public attacks (one recently which I brought to a mod's attention, which was promptly mimimized and explained away as harmless fun). I took it in stride as meaning that TTBs was seeking to have a more hands-off approach.

 

No. It's not to be a hands-off approach. If it *really* were a hands-off approach the only Mod on Taobums should and would be Sean himself. That's it. No other mods, period. Make no mistake in this...Sean himself wanted the atmosphere at Taobums to change. I can not stress this point enough.

 

The mods were asked to act to change this board's atmosphere to be more in line with the spirit of what Sean himself envisioned for it. Specifically he wanted it to become a more welcoming and inquiring place rather than the Wild West atmosphere where online brawls broke out that the formerly No-Mod board like Taobums used to be had become.

 

 

But this banning has me rethinking that and wondering about the objectivity of some moderators.

 

We try our best to be fair. Think of a committee. It's become much like a Parliment or Congress. Issues are debated and discussed and there are true disagreements between how and what action - if any - should be taken. There are real disagreements with how to proceed on many issues that pop up and as with a Parliament or Congress the side with the most "votes" wins in how or whether to proceed. Although Taobummers see only the uniform public face when any Mod posts behind the scenes sometimes it is anything but.

 

True impartiality with any Modded board imo is impossible. The only way for Taobums to be truly impartial is to go back to having zero mods. It would be the Wild West here again. In some ways although Taobums back then did have a rather more hostile environment it also was a *very* level playing field. No one person had any more powers, priviledges or responsibilities than any other. If there are zero mods it forces people to rely on their own wisdom to deal with people they find to be online bullies, threatening, etc. People would remember they could A) put other people on ignore, B ) stick to a personal practice forum or C) walk away and find another forum.

[templetao]

hmmm I dont know about that.

 

If Vmarco is a troller then he replied with the most detailed posts than any troller ive ever seen.

 

If he is an author than this explains his detailed replies (he likes to write).

 

and

 

If he was going to plug his book and do forum promotion its always better to establish a connection with the forum members first. Although i dont think he was going to plug his books for the simple facts that his posting style doesnt suggest that.

 

my final thought on vmarco is that he may be new to forum posting.

[Informer]

Cool, now there is a Tao forum so we can have the idealistic version of a taoist as well

[C T]

If Vmarco lived in your neighborhood, would you give him a spare pint of milk if he comes a calling?

Surely, i believe, 99 percent of those here who had vocalized objections would not refuse when asked.

 

In our everyday interactions, i am sure we also have within our circle of friends and relations those whom we are not too fond of, and yet we would hope to learn to be quite accepting of their behavior and views, and would not be bent with purposeful intention to dismiss or diminish them, or to turn a blind eye should they ask for something which we know is not that hard to give.

 

So what happens here is not a reflection of how just or unjust one is. Its a forum, and forums are (mostly?) places where communication takes place. Some would be beneficial, some not so, which is to be expected. At the very least, there is some level of interaction. But when no communication can be had with someone, then of what other purpose or motive would a person choose to come on board (and post)?

 

Again, its my view that 99 percent of folks here who posts regularly have good hearts.

 

The other 01 percent? Well, these would be the agents of disinformation, or aliens, or both. Or simply, knuckleheads who refuse to take hints.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

It just seems not kind or sane to take the forum so seriously.

We are on a computer connected to a forum over the internet.

Some of the "trolls" we encounter like to get on and get people worked up.

To be completely forthcomming they get off on it. So, I guess Im just concerned over the sanity of the forum. Sure we can ignore people but it just ignore's the problem which is the combative nature already present in the forum.

[Seth Ananda]

Seth Ananda,

 

So? I would, too. That doesn't mean my reason for being here is to sell my books. In fact, in the future when I finish my current book, I will be advertising it here! Doesn't mean I'm a salesman. This is a forum for people interested in spiritual information...the more the merrier.

 

And lets look at other posters...such as Ya Mu or fiveelementtao, who almost solely post information about their own material, and who have actual links to their products in their signatures. Vmarco isn't like this at all. And yet, those guys are totally cool with everyone on the forum!

 

So in other words: who cares? Let it go, and try to put yourself in his shoes.

 

When I write a book I will also plug it here as I do not have a problem with that that.

Ya mu and Five are great, and actually contribute to good healthy discussion and debate here. I would never change that.

Vmarco on the other hand does nothing of the sort. Re read the threads. He turned nearly everything into 'all other buddhists are idiots but me, all religious people are idiots, I am basically the only free thinking person anywhere!' conversations.

 

 

I think his posts contained a lot of valuable info (which I often disagreed with, but still learned from). His posts in themselves weren't disruptive...it's people's disagreement that was. His bogus interpretations were just as legitimate as anyone else's bogus interpretations of Buddhist thought (which in my opinion, is inherently bogus). And he didn't attack anyone...I often totally disagreed with him, but he never attacked me. He always communicated calmly and intellectually, as far as I saw.

 

Absolute rubbish. where is an ounce valuable Info. It is all pseudo scientific drivel. If you 'learned' anything from it, you learned drivel.

His bogus interpretations of Buddhism have no legitimate element whatsoever. They were plain wrong, proved over 1000's of years of debate in actual Buddhist schools.

If you want to spiel some post modernist "everything is just as relevant and meaningful as anything else" diatribe then the next time you want brain surgery, why don't you just get a bicycle mechanic to do it?

 

And yes he did directly attack many people. Are you blind? look at what he directed at Sunya, Cow and others.

 

 

Yes, that seems to be his main "problem"...but it's not something we can necessarily change about it. And being that way doesn't go against the forum rules or anything...so we might just have to learn to get used to him!

Why should we get used to someone who is not here to communicate but only to prove their superiority, gain a following of all the pseudo intellectuals who are pleased by the disruption he causes, and sell his books.

He is nothing like the other authors here.

 

 

As for his Integrity, he started a thread about Honesty then pretended to be Female?!?

[thelerner]

If Vmarco lived in your neighborhood, would you give him a spare pint of milk if he comes a calling?

Surely, i believe, 99 percent of those here who had vocalized objections would not refuse when asked.

 

In our everyday interactions, i am sure we also have within our circle of friends and relations those whom we are not too fond of, and yet we would hope to learn to be quite accepting of their behavior and views, and would not be bent with purposeful intention to dismiss or diminish them, or to turn a blind eye should they ask for something which we know is not that hard to give.

 

So what happens here is not a reflection of how just or unjust one is. Its a forum, and forums are (mostly?) places where communication takes place. Some would be beneficial, some not so, which is to be expected. At the very least, there is some level of interaction. But when no communication can be had with someone, then of what other purpose or motive would a person choose to come on board (and post)?

 

Again, its my view that 99 percent of folks here who posts regularly have good hearts.

 

The other 01 percent? Well, these would be the agents of disinformation, or aliens, or both. Or simply, knuckleheads who refuse to take hints.

nice.

literally..I think I'd give him the milk, though I might give him my wife's since she drinks skim and I use 2% . Still sometimes life makes me rush and if so I might give him nothing. If he came back several times I might also give nothing and say buy your own or just drink water under your bridge (kidding).

Edited August 18, 2011 by thelerner

[C T]

 

If you want to spiel some post modernist "everything is just as relevant and meaningful as anything else" diatribe then the next time you want brain surgery, why don't you just get a bicycle mechanic to do it?

 

 

As for his Integrity, he started a thread about Honesty then pretended to be Female?!?

:lol:

 

(To be fair, he did admit to being trans-gendered.)

 

_{not that i know precisely what he meant by that term. surely not transcended, i hope.}

[Simplicity Rules]

He also ruined and cluttered up a bunch of other threads, and generally refused to communicate in a meaningful way [i admit by my standards] which pretty much makes him a Troll. So I personally think one week is not enough. He should have been banned longer.

 

Several Buddhists here can also be accused of doing the same. Tibetan Buddhism, DO&E and its superiority over anything and everything has been brought up in threads where it was least relevant, like the thread on Medical Qigong. No one was banned for that. Buddhists here have a pattern to drag threads to any direction but our personal affiliation with Buddhism probably makes that acceptable to you. Why was a similar protest not lodged there?

 

So I personally think one week is not enough. He should have been banned longer.

 

For a person of lofty spiritual experience, this is very unbecoming of you to rejoice someone getting banned and insist on kicking a fallen person harder.

 

Vajra used to annoy the hell out of me but he was never an abusive wanker. He piked up whenever Buddhism was mentioned, especially when people like myself were trying to make turn it into some form of eternalism, but above all, despite the condescending tone, He remained consistent, and won my respect.

 

Eternalism is not a sin, and there is no standard definition of what Eternalism is or of its degrees of acceptability as a skillful means even within Buddhism. You got used to Vajra’s condescending tone and his constant derailing of threads and Buddhist discourse because you gave him enough time. It also helped that you got aligned with Buddhism meanwhile. It becomes clear here that your issue is not Vmarco’s tone or attitude at the basic level but the ideological disagreement you have with him version of Buddhism as against what you and your other Buddhist friends subscribe to. Is that reason enough to call for his suspension and clap and cheer his ousting?

 

Who knows, if you gave VMarco time like Vajra, you would probably notice his consistence and begin to respect him in spite of his ‘condescending or absolutistic’ tone.

 

Vmarco has no redeming features that I have seen. He totally Hijacks threads, he accuses people of all kinds of behavior from his mighty throne and he has no interest in a two way conversation. He is a troll. All his claims are suspect. His theory's are loopy and he Insults people constantly.

 

The funniest thing is that when he had pissed off enough Individuals, and starts copping his Karma, all of a sudden he is being 'picked on' by 'Internet Bullies'

lol as if he was a pure lotus who had never said a bad thing to anyone...

 

The same can be said about a lot of Buddhists you sympathize with here. Some are as aggressive as VMarco, some others are passive-regressive who camouflage their attacks and accusations with lengthy parroted quotes (with a generous spread of the word compassion). Do we claim such subversive attacks are any less vicious than direct, possibly less sophisticated tone that you have issue with?

 

In this very thread, the sneer about VMarco being transgendered is evident. Is it hard to see the tone and intent behind that comment? How is his gender of relevance to his discussion or a lack of that? This, IMO, amounts to gender discrimination against VMarco. You may disagree, but so do I with your definition of annoyance and attack.

 

Calling him wanker, crybaby etc. can be termed personal attacks as well. Should you report yourself for those 'personal' attacks?

 

 

I feel outraged that people here are outraged by his suspension, after reading his posts.

The people who complained pretty much lost some of my respect.

 

Really? You respect people based on if they agree with you, especially on issues such as these? I have appreciated your posts in the past, but now wonder about your emotional maturity.

 

What are you talking about? He alluded to being a writer several times, and I believe given time he would have publicly plugged them.

 

This is purely an assumption. And probably baseless. How can one predict whether or not he would try and sell is books here before he actually does and penalize him for that?

 

He contributed nothing of value apart from disrupting many threads, and having completely bogus Interpretations of Buddhist thought, and again - He attacked everyone who did not agree with him.

 

I have had no issues with him, Informer is another example. In spite of severe disagreements, Scotty does not seem to have personal issues with him either. If the Buddhist band does not jump at any one who disagrees, there probably are many more here who will admit to not having issues with Vmarco. There are also many who will admit to having issues with Buddhist bullies on this forum. So what, people need to learn to co-exist.

 

His interpretations may seem bogus to you. So did some of Buddha’s rehashed ideas to Hindus from whom he lifted several key concepts of Buddhism. Again, as I pointed out, this is a covert case of ‘ban him because he speaks a lot, more than I can debate, and I don’t agree with him, so let me get him banned to silence him’.

 

Michael Lomax could teach him a thing or two...

Dear Mr. Lomax himself has had issues in the past about several of your Buddhist friends and has even publicly complained but has been ignored. So your point is?

 

Common, folks who claim direct realization of everything from Kundalini to DO&E don’t have a little patience and open-mindedness? It’s especially funny that the proclaimers of ‘emptiness’ and the inherent lack of ‘essence’ are so affected by supposed “personal” attack

Edited August 18, 2011 by Simplicity Rules