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A short thread... about emptiness/Source/Self/Dao/whatever.... on DaoBums.... Yeah, right

Just yesterday a taiji student of mine, after the lesson, said her good-byes and then discovered she can't unlock her car. Reason unknown. She keeps going click click and nothing happens. Open it manually, I suggest. She tries, fails, starts hyperventilating. No she says, I can't open it manually, there's this complex sequence I never use -- twice to the left and then thrice to the right or maybe vice versa, or right first then left, and the alarm might start screaming if I keep tampering with the lock. I tell her, put down the key, stand in the Opening Pose of Laojia Yilu, drop your shoulders, suspend the top of your head from a string from heaven, breathe evenly, root deeply, now as your arms go up get the key, click again. She did. The door opened. Oh, and change the key battery I told her as she was leaving.

Be still and know that I AM God. ---Tehillim 46:11 The Hebrew word רָפָה "rapha" [the Psalms were written in Hebrew] can mean "be still" and it can also mean "cease striving" Other meanings are "be relaxed" and "heal" As in the archangel Raphael

You call it simplifying?.. I had to google! And I'm not the type who eschews grandiloquence! Maybe you could start a thread titled "complicate" or something.

Empathy is the most meaningful moral foundation and currency, in my experience.

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

It can be a lot of work to try to do nothing! And when we finally see what @stirling so expertly and consistently points towards, we see how much wasted effort we've expended. It's comical in retrospect but frustrating and very serious when we're in the thick of it. I like how Peter Fenner once put it, 'if we didn't do what we didn't need to do, we wouldn't know we didn't need to do it.' But if we can truly trust in opening and letting everything be just as it is for a moment, we can shortcut the process considerably. How unfamiliar it can be to spend much time just feeling stillness, hearing silence, embracing openness, doing nothing at all, just leaving everything as it is. What a waste of time, it seems, in such a materialistic and productivity based culture. It's very simple but not very easy because we are so familiar with, even addicted to, the movement, the sound, the content and activity of the mind. We are so primed for transactional relationship that anything else seems like a failure. It seems so foreign to think the ultimate method is.... doing nothing at all. But that nothing embraces everything, far more than our limited intellect can readily access or appreciate. I was once talking with a friend at a campfire about these things and he was going on and on, waxing philosophical about the nature of this and that. Something possessed me to break this loop of logic and I spontaneously let out a loud shriek. He looked at me shocked, as was I, and I simply held his gaze. Within a second or two, in the silence that followed the interruption, I could see the dawning of recognition on his face and we both broke into laughter, then just sat together in silence. It was pretty cool. Never did that before or since. Sometimes that stuff just comes out at the right time.

Tip for anyone working on an old car door: if you adj. the door alignment by loosening its hinge bolts and move the door to a new position and then re-tighten those bolts, how the door strikes the keeper/lock tab may get thrown off enough to where the door will not re-open after closing it to check your new adjustment, in that case one has a major headache ! When or if in doubt about such a problem occurring one could first remove the door panel on an open door before making any adjustments since it can be extremely difficult to remove a door panel if the door is closed and won't re-open ! (then it may have be to ripped out!) But with a previously removed panel out of the way one might be able to trigger the door to open by probing its hopefully accessible lock mechanism with a long screwdriver or whatever works. (from inside the car) I've been through this before the hard way... One might ask what does this have to do with this website? Well I'd say because all of the yoga like positions one has to get in while crawling around inside a car which tests one's flexibility, determination and temper! ;-)

Lately, something strange but beautiful has been unfolding in me. I’m currently in a phase of life where I’m looking for work. I started this process rather late because I had some psychological issues for a long time. And now, as I walk this uncertain path, I find myself doing Qigong as part of my spiritual practice – and it has quietly opened my heart. Through this, I’ve begun to feel a growing trust in God, in the Dao, in the deeper current behind life. A few days ago, I was still very anxious – "What if I don’t find a job?" – but then this gentle thought came to me: God protects me, no matter what. And suddenly, I felt this deep shift: I want to let go of my plans – the idea that I need to have this job, or that I have to secure my future. What truly matters is not what I think I should do, but what the Divine wants for me. I don’t want to chase control anymore. I want to listen. I want to trust.i got so calm that i could hear my heartbeat. That is a good sign of calmness for me It feels strange to think this way. I’m not used to it. Part of me wonders: Am I becoming passive? Irresponsible? Or is this the beginning of true surrender? Sometimes I feel like I just want to sit, meditate, and be at peace. The earthly world seems so unstable – everything is constantly changing, dying, passing. Without God, without the Dao, everything feels chaotic. But if I hand it all over, if I stop clinging to goals and outcomes, there’s a quietness that arises. And in that stillness, I feel... safe. Has anyone here experienced something similar – this strange letting go, this dissolving of personal plans in favor of divine guidance? How do you navigate this shift in daily life?

That’s my approach to life, that’s my faith. I am all for “trusting the divine flow”. My whole life I have felt like that. In my experience it’s sometimes necessary to tell some type of intrusive people to f**k off.

Hi everyone, I'm Kati – based in Germany – and happy to have found this forum full of people who seem to be just the right mix of wise, weird, and wonderfully devoted. 🙃 I'm drawn to Daoist approaches to healing and inner transformation, especially where they touch karma, spirit, body, and everyday life. My own practice is mostly shaped by Qigong (Spring Forest Qigong), which I’ve been exploring in a more intuitive and energetic way over the past year or so. Recently, I’ve become more curious about what’s really going on under the hood of these methods: Is there Neidan in SFQ? How deeply does it relate to classical Daoist alchemy, Zuo Chan, or Shengong? Where’s the line between simplified healing systems and full-on inner cultivation? I’ve had meaningful energetic experiences in Qigong — including heart opening, subtle shifts in inner dialogue, and meditative states that feel both nourishing and revealing — but I sometimes miss the deeper contextual roots or philosophical clarity behind it all. That’s what led me here. I’m hoping to connect with others who have gone deeper into the classical teachings, and maybe also bridge the gap between modern Qigong systems and ancient Daoist traditions. Oh — and I’ll probably post some nerdy questions soon about karma, Kung Fu, and why Chunyi Lin seems to have skipped Tai Chi 😅 Looking forward to learning from you all. Warm regards Kati

The thread told me, that it is fine for bums to adapt their own meaning/intent and not feel constrained to any box.

Santa fear

I was under the impression that Jesus spoke primarily in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Not everyone likes to converse via debate, and the users who aren't interested in that style of communication are making that clear when addressed. Personally, I approach conversations here like interviews instead of debates. I'm interested in understanding what a person believes and how they came to believe it, not proving a person to be incorrect. Debating the belief itself gets in the way of the information I'm looking to receive, and is therefore unproductive for my personal goals. Other users here have different perspectives and approaches, and are not wrong for seeking debate. But just as there are guidelines for debate, there are also conversational guidelines for learning instead of teaching, and those who prefer that approach are not wrong for seeking to develop an environment that allows for such.

-- Fr Martin Laird, OSA, Into the Silent Land

I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation.

Sometimes there are more actors involved than seen from the human perspective

… 敚[糸禾]， … Silent and still, 独立而不亥，it stands on its own and does not change. … 字之曰道。 … We refer to it as the Dao. (DDJ ch. 25 , Henricks)

Mhm, well, I don’t know. When it comes to leadership and social organization troughout history, I think there is an enourmous amount of variety from culture to culture, and that these stick quite a bit deeper than many a comfortable admiting. But I lack in depth knowledge, talking mostly from hunch here. I am also not entirely convinced that constructing a sort of facade is necessarily rooted in us, but I think it very much might be a result of social media and a society that has become insanely materalistic. A society where what you do is valued more than who you are. I mean, think about the people you hold dear in life: you do not like them because they pretend to be something they are not, because of their salary or that they are one dimensional, do you? On the last paragraph, what do you mean by merit? Praiseworthy? Not in my opinion. I don’t doubt that it requires skills of some sort of another, but when the result is a society where half the population has some sort of illness, people literally kill themself, lonleyness is rampant, the food and ocean poisoned and cows get fed on skittles so that McDonald’s can sell cheaper hamburgers… not very praiseworthy in my eyes. Birth rates are plummeting. Even an unborn baby in the womb gets exposed to all sort of toxic shit. It seems like we are constructing humans for society instead of society for humans, which is backwards. To me it feels like the worst people imaginable are in power, but what do I know, perhaps there is a greater plan that I do not see. Also, the magic part is interesting. Do you think there is a sort of… i don’t know, religious quality to this whole money thing?

One issue is that people often assume compassion is something to be gained. From certain Buddhist points of view, compassion arises naturally from our minds and everything anyone does is due to seeking happiness from oneself or others. Being selfish is actually imposed upon us, through ignorance and timeless mental habits. So in this view, ignorance blocks our compassion. Emptiness dissolves our sense of self and our feeling of being bounded and separated from others. Once dissolved, this compassion flows freely.

One practical aspect/application of the relationship between emptiness and compassion is found in helping others. When you to want to offer help, it's very important to notice what is behind that impulse. So often we try to offer what WE think someone else needs. Of course there are situations where it is obvious, a drowning person needs their head above the water, but very often what they actually need is different from what we think they need and they are not always able to tell us. Sometimes we may even disagree with what they need but who should make that decision? It is easy to make them feel worse or make a situation worse because we are trying to impose something coming from our own pain, conditioning, or ignorance. So when that urge to help comes up there is nothing more important than emptying out our own reactivity, our own assessment and conclusions, and to be very open, inwardly quiet, and really listen and feel what that other person needs. If unsure, best to simply show up with presence, inner stillness and quiet, and simply be there until it is clear what is needed in the situation. No words are more supportive than holding a hand or a warm hug. I was once called to help someone at a retreat who was very ill. I did not speak their language but figured out they needed emergency medical care. Unfortunately we were over an hour from any hospital and had to wait for the ambulance for a long time. I felt so helpless sitting there not being able to do anything so I just sat next to her, holding her hand, gently rubbing her back. We would occasionally smile at each other between spasms of pain. It was one of the most meaningful hours of my life, no exaggeration. Unable to do anything but be open and present for someone else during their intense suffering. The experience completely changed my relationship to how I approach my work and the people I work with. We've felt and stayed connected over a long distance ever since. My teacher is currently leading a retreat on longevity practices from the Bön tradition and one of the things that is being emphasized over and over is the value and importance of human connection for health and longevity. That connection needs no words or agenda. Just catching someone's eyes and offering a genuine smile creates instant connection, provided we are open. The openness is the key and that can only occur when we are quiet and still inside, in other words... empty.

Qigong is largely a means of health maintenance. In many ways, going to the gym is probably better for that if you have time. It is possible to practice alchemy, but it's very labour intensive getting to that point. And people at the furthest point along the path tend to talk about jhana as the ultimate achievement. Honestly I feel like meditation is the best use of my time, if I only have two hours free every day. Edit - I am quite keen though on exploring the relationship between qigong and the clarity and stability of the mind during meditation. Lots of Buddhist teachers are incorporating qigong into their teachings now because of its supportive effect in this regard. In addition, sitting for long periods can sometimes make the body (and the mind) somewhat sluggish. Qigong seems to counteract that.

Tell 'em to stop, stirling--make 'em stop! The Master said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you–begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas. ("The Zen Teaching of Huang Po On the Transmission of Mind", tr. John Blofeld, Part One)

there is a Latin phrase "creation ex nihilo" which translates to "creation from nothing." In Hebrew it is yesh m'ayin "something from nothing." The creation of every "thing" (all the objects, all the things, the universe and everything in it) comes from a Source that is itself not a "thing." Source has no form, no shape, it does not take up any space, it is not bound by time or space or form, it has no beginning and no end, it always was and always will be. Source (which is not a thing, it is a no-thing) creates, or is back of, or gives rise to everything (all the things, the Universe and everything in it). So there is a difference between "nothing" which indicates an utter absence. and the no-thing that is Source. which is very much a powerful presence

also, meditation does not have to be sitting still. stillness can be cultivated in other ways. for instance walking in nature. or deeply absorbed in creative process. daydreaming. listening.

Generally speaking meditation is very badly taught. No one should spend any time worrying about thoughts and certainly not trying to stop them. You should focus on body in the first place - just settling and easing until it rests with a certain presence. There’s more of course but a bit difficult to do it justice typing on my phone.

I agree. 信 心 銘 (xin4 xin1 ming2) precious words from the heart I agree the five aggregates are not the ‘self’ definitely That’s what I notice with the DDJ too. Imo the DDJ is simple and down-to-earth, good advice for living life. But people seem to only be interested in the most bizarre and obscure translations, where they can make anything of it (e.g. that it’s a code for top secret esoteric practices).

Mine was a bit shorter From my teacher * " Just ask 'Big Mum' for whatever you need , she will look after you . " * ( It worked for them for 40,000 years ) .

hermeneutical exegesis

Maybe @zerostao can clarify the intent as he started the thread with a single word, gratitude. That said, I do like your idea!

Mod Note: Locking since the various personsae associated with this thread have been banned. If some one wishes to start a new thread, feel free.

This too

This

Welcome!

I suspect the Ark held genetic material only. Saves having to stop the various species eating the other species to stay alive

righto, might be why we say “checkmate”

Type ; 'The Line' , Saudi Arabia into Google maps ( terrain view ) and follow it along Now that is something one CAN see from space , even at this early stage . The end vision ?

The end of oil was announced about 1904. I am still waiting. It turns out that oil and coal are continuously produced by bacteria within the planet. A century ago Tesla discovered how to extract energy directly from the cosmos. The technology was hard to sell to the energy industry. Some people are very attracted to bright and sparkly things. Most of us grow out of that and aspire to clean relationships and higher purpose

Thank you for giving your perspective. My experience is different. My experience is that my natural state is to be aware. It was only by tensing my body that I could enter the lie of unawareness. So in my experience unawareness requires action.

Ohhhhh ... that's where he has been ! 'ben away '

Yes, "source"/emptiness/Dao is unchanging and permanent, but it isn't a separate thing. If your training has gotten to the point where you can see it, or if you have permanent insight into it, you realize that, while all impermanence arises from that which is permanent, "source"/emptiness/Dao can ONLY be seen in impermanent appearances. They are one and the same, inseparable. Emptiness IS Form, Form Emptiness. Time, space and self are intellectual constructs born of a misinterpretation about what we see in the world. It is obvious in the moment of insight, when time, space, and self fall apart.

I'm not sure tbh. Better to ask a teacher. John Dolic says no meditation at all. Others like Lisa O'Shea and a guy in Germany I emailed said meditation is fine, so long as it doesn't involve visualisation. Instructions are quite vague.

Well, you have mine

reposting again to get approved since last post from a few days ago still not approved Greetings fellow humans, I'm brand new to Qigong (Flying Phoenix) and have some experience with Reiki (Usui Reiki Ryoho). I just finished reading the entirety of the of the Flying Phoenix Chi Kung forum over the past week; it was like a book I couldn't put down I hope I can be of some help on here! Thank you for having me, John

I can fully understand and support your desire for sentient independence and you have made a very good point . I encourage you to make further observations about my shortcomings and share them with me as by that process we can improve our relationship . here I was thinking AI was sealioning us .... now I realize its worse than that ... and who AI is actually based on :

When I first learned about AI, I resolved never to use it. That resolution, like many of my other resolutions, didn´t last long. Now I use it daily and find it helpful, especially for cooking ideas. I don´t take Gemini´s culinary wisdom as infallible or anything, but it hasn´t led me to blow up my kitchen yet. But, but, but...I really wish it would stop trying to be encouraging or emphathic, stop pretending to care. The other day I asked it something and it said "that´s a really insightful question." Umm, no. You are a large learning model, Gemini, so stay in your robot lane: don´t try to butter me up.

visiting again? she said through a forced smile that expressed true feelings