Leaderboard

Happy New Year to you Luke, and to the rest of you Bums. May 2026 bring out the best in us!

Elizabeth Gilbert, author of the much-acclaimed book Eat, Pray, Love, recently wrote about her desire to murder her terminally-ill drug-addicted lesbian lover. Not everyone considers radical honesty a virtue, and response to Gilbert´s confession has been decidedly mixed. Should she have saved the more gruesome details of her relationship for an intimate fireside chat with close friends? I think so. I´ll save the juiciest details of my own misadventures for those who deserve my heart.

Hi All, I wanted to share something I’ve been arriving at in my Chen-style practice, that touches on Taoist internal practices, Qigong, and what I’d call embodied self-discovery. In my experience, Chen-style Taijiquan reveals itself more as something to be discovered rather than learned in the conventional sense. It's as if the principles already exist within the body, and simply need to be uncovered, felt, refined, and integrated over time through careful, attentive practice. For me, what’s striking is how this practice interacts with the body’s connective tissue, nervous system, and interoceptive capacities. Standing cultivates baseline tone, alignment, and subtle internal stretch. Silk Reeling and Form practice introduce dynamic spirals and nervous system feedback that repatterns and reshapes tissue and helps the body discover efficient, integrated pathways of movement. Together, they create an internal calibration that feels very tangible, a “felt sense” of how my body organizes, balances, and responds. I’m curious how this resonates with others’ experiences. How have your own Taoist, Qigong, or internal practices shaped your sense of internal organization, alignment, or subtle body awareness? Have you noticed anything similar to what I describe in Chen Taijiquan: feedback, regulation, or embodied learning that feels discovered rather than taught? I’d love to hear your thoughts, insights, or personal experiences. If anybody is interested, I wrote a longer article exploring this in detail, you can read that article here: https://www.taijiquan.quest/post/chen-tai-chi-discovered

(May have posted this before, sorry it may not apply to struggling or younger folks )

Up in the mountain is a better place for seclusion!

I practice Chen Family Taijiquan. In our line, Taijiquan is a gongfu practice. Much of what we develop is not innate to the human body. It has to be built. Forged. If you take someone who has never trained this way, it does not matter how well you explain things to them in the moment, or what cues you give them about what to feel; there are things they simply cannot do yet, because those capacities do not exist in their body. The earth has rocks by default. It does not have swords. Swords have to be made. There is a National USA Push Hands Champion (allegedly) who has been training for 30-40 years and is a disciple of a well-known teacher. I, a self-proclaimed beginner and complete nobody with five years of training, trolled him in Push Hands as he was a judge at a Push Hand tournament. I later heard he has talked a lot about me in his Push Hand classes, trying to figure out how to counter me, even trying to invite me to his school. Now... I look at his writing online. He wrote article about Daoist breathing and how he teaches his students it as a key element in strengthening the central energy line and improving pushing hands, how it to cultivate the Dao and train their Qi. From repeated, real-world contact with other practitioners and teachers, one thing has become very clear to me: methodology beats principles. Most people are never taught such methodology, even though they may train for decades and speak fluently about internal theory.

The only thing I remember about Flatliners from the 1980s/1990s is its about medical students who flatline their hearts then resuscitate themselves in an attempt to give themselves near death experiences (NDE). The summary for altered states says "genetic memory" plays a role in the film. In the book Travels, Michael Crichton participates in hypnosis or meditation to make contact with his ancestors or former lives. He says he connected with a gladiator who lived in a past era. There could be a case for trauma being written to ones DNA. The same with famine and other conditional circumstances. To some extent our life choices also have an impact on DNA. But also remember that there were lengthy and comprehensive studies done on newborns addicted to crack. With the conclusion being that living in a negative environment being surrounded by negative people is more debilitating to human development than being born addicted to crack. In terms of nature versus nurture, it is possible that study proves nurture or choices matter more than DNA.

Demons and voices are "makyo": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makyō They are distractions that come from the thinking mind. If your mind is still, they aren't there by definition. The stillness is the deeper reality of these experiences - the thing that is ALWAYS there when the mind is allowed to stop. Many experiences of all kinds occur during meditation. Most of them are blissful. Some people have supernatural experiences, some don't. It's good to have recourse to a proper teacher to check in with who has seen and understands these experiences, so that when things like this happen they can be framed in their proper perspective and there is some tuning of your practice where problems arise. @Cadcam, if you are continuing to experience anhedonia you should really be in contact with a mental health professional.

I´ve also found the Bums a mostly kind-hearted group. It sounds like you have Good Forum Karma! I hope you continue to find this a welcoming, accepting place for many years to come.

Do you yourself understand it? How about this: Wu Wei arises is the understanding that enlightenment and the world of separateness occupy the same space, though one of them is a "deeper" reality. To a person who experiences the world as a "self", there is a world of separate objects, and a "self" with agency that interacts with them. From the experience of enlightened mind it is obvious that the separateness is a delusion, and that the unity of things takes care of itself. The way this appears is from the same perspective, but with two ways of seeing - there is still the appearance of a body that interacts with the world, but from the enlightened perspective this action is not the product of volition but the action of reality itself acting as a wholeness. No amount of reading or pouring over translations and commentaries will ever yield an understanding of the non-dual nature of reality, of which Wu Wei is only a single intellectual perspective. The broader realization isn't an intellectual understanding, and the reality of it will never match an intellectual idea about its nature. The only path to understanding Wu Wei is in having it become your permanent experience through realization.

Your entire post above is gold. And there are layers of understanding and realization, just as there are relative and absolute truth. Reading and studying alone, even a scripture as perfect as Daodejing, can only take us so far. The mind, its activity, and its contents can only take us so far. We must make room for practice, for simply being, to appreciate the wisdom hiding behind the words. And we must be patient and kind with ourselves and each other if we want to discover something new together. Although, if we trust the old masters, an occasional swift kick in the arse or thwack on the shoulder with the keisaku can be helpful too.

Sorry, but I think that is too restrictive a definition of wu wei. What if I step on a toad as I'm saving a drowning animal? I'm playing with you a little here. Forgive me.

Errrmmmm ... yes you are ( you just dont realize it )

I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no name It felt good to be out of the rain In the desert you can remember your name ‘Cause there ain’t no one for to give you no pain

Same in finnish: taivas. I once said to my neighbor in broken finnish something like "the sky is beautiful" and he got this weird look on his face. afterwards, i figured he probably thought I was talking about heaven.

In Portuguese the word for sky is ceu and the word for Heaven, Ceu. Just for interest.

After many years of practice, the slow spiraling movements of tai chi become part of one´s personality; the habit of deep diaphramatic breathing results in a remarkable steady calm. No doubt this explains why Dao Bums forum members are unfailingly peaceful, remarkably free from the pugilistic impulses that characterize interaction in other corners of the intrawebs. Our tendency towards good cheer and amiability was especially apparent in that area of the site, now defunct, known as "Current Events." Did we always agree with one another? We did not. But even when we found ourselves at extreme idiological odds, we never failed to recognize the humanity and basic good will of our fellows. On that rare occasion when a post resulted in passing annoyance, we looked inward: what unresolved issue within us was responsible for this prick of discontent? Such is the way of the refined heart. And so, with all the gratitude and warm fuzzies I can muster, I raise my glass to you my fellow Bums. May you saunter on into the expanse of the desert or the misty mountains or the bathroom down the hall, wherever your path may lead. Happy New Year!!! LL

Haha, agreed Generally simplicity carries more truth than endless layers of method and theory. And for me in my Taiji journey, the practice feels simpler and simpler the further I go. So in my understanding, the purpose of the methods isn’t complexity for its own sake, but to create the framework that allows one to discover that simplicity firsthand.

These are all dictionaries for the use of the characters in modern Chinese. You need a dictionary for the meanings as used in transcripts of Classical Chinese. There often is some difference in the meanings. I use: A Student's Dictionary of Classical and Medieval Chinese, Author: Paul W. Kroll

I agree, anonymous strangers online may not be the best resource under the circumstances.

Happy new year! A few weeks ago I posted this mani essay - then got an itch to rewrite a poorly written paragraph. I'm afraid I'm going senile because, turns out, there was a ton o' rewrite to do - and I feel better that I've hacked through that. Now, posting this mani mantra ~ secret style essay to the community to kick the tires, testing for bullet-proof: #1 does it communicate clearly? I'm trying to make the concepts commonly accessible (not just to us esoteric nerds) #2 other editorial comments https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/2025/12/15/mani-mantra-secret-style-a-primer/ cheers, Trunk

The science that pointed to the brain being where the experience of being originates is known to be flawed, and has been for many years, so yes. Here is a nice article on this topic: https://tricycle.org/article/six-questions-b-alan-wallace/ ...or, if you are more science minded: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9490228/ - Setting that aside for a moment - if you were asleep and based your reality on experiments done in your dream, your experiments MIGHT have some sort of seeming circular reality, but when you finally woke up you would dismiss them outright. The same goes here - it is entirely possible to "wake up" from the dream of duality and see that there is a deeper, more real level of reality that includes and suffuses the reality you already experience.

@thelerner @liminal_luke the golden mean? No but reallly, I agree with you. These things isn’t something I’d share with every and anyone. Reason I did it here on daobums, is I consider you kind hearted people and in many ways… friends. 🎉

Your experience resonates strongly with my own. For me, neijia, neigong, and neidan are journeys of self discovery. A teacher can give pointers and direction, as well as exercises to engage with, but we must engage and discover for ourselves the true meaning, proper technique, and results. Externally, the teacher can adjust the posture but internally, the inner details of posture must be discovered. This is the only way we can learn to self-correct and make meaningful progress in our practice. Once we have developed adequate skill and confidence, engaging with others allow us to test our progress and discover our weaknesses and errors, such as in tui shou, san da, and so on. This is why it is said in taijiquan that we must 'invest in loss.'

A bit of radical honesty is good, like a wake-up slap. A realistic look at where you, your relation to others and obstacles around you. Too much radical honesty is like slapping yourself, then moving on to slap others. It can get abusive and the ego's excuse to play martyr. At New Years celebration there was some positive radical honesty of thanks. And it was the glue that binds us. The darker side of radical honesty, I don't feel like sharing mine. Perhaps in the next weekend or two, I'll take out the rocket stove, light it up, take out water and whiskey and open the subject up to a late night chat with some friends.

You are wrong. It is a lived experience. Nothing conceptual.

Let action come from True Nature. If action comes from conditioned self, it will result in harm. Has nothing to with nature as animals, forests etc.

Does Wu not mean non-being or emptiness? Then acting from emptiness = Wu Wei is the most accurate translation. Means acting without self-interest. Doing means when self is active and doing things with intention to reach a goal. Nature as spoken of here is your True Nature, The Golden Elixir as named in some Taoist texts. All we are doing here is going back to that nature by whatever practice we deem necessary. Some people overlook it because it is invisible, non-tangible and might appear mundane. It is the opposite of passion, excitement and entertainment for the mind. The seeking for it is the impulse coming from itself. Listen to this voice. See where it is coming from.

Sorry deleted due to the OP not showing what is deemed as "correct etiquette." 1. Many people devote their entire lives to heal and charge money accordingly. You pay for your services and you get help. 2. As above, there are also others who have little clue of healing and they still charge. Let's hope one doesn't seek help from this category because you'll never heal yourself. 3. In Asian countries that I'm familiar with, China and Taiwan, there are some highly experienced practitioners that not only don't charge but also don't even bother to help those who experience energetic trouble. They just remain anonymous and good luck finding them unless you have a letter of recommendation as well as knowing who they are in the first place. You can offer them a million bucks and they won't even bother. It's what is called the clock More about that here: Master-student relationship

There was a second party intervention that cannot be ignored.

Loved the series, including the finale! Not sure what everyone else is talking about…. 🙃

If you trust wu wei as a principle, you must let it happen. The more you is there, the less it happens. I am a straw dog, and will be stashed away between performances, Dao continues to flow. Feel the Dao in every moment. I trust this moment more than I trust what I think about it.

Excessive control over something is doom to failure!

Yes, 为無为。 Wu Wei is a compound character and stand alone. The first Wei can be a single character in the phrase. The translation is "for Wu Wei." For example, I will do this for Wu Wei .

Your words are like clean and pure water 🌳

To truly understand Wu Wei, we must consider a radically different perspective on reality. Most of us assume that we exist as separate players in an world of separate players, each making their own decisions. From the perspective of the Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind, this is a nonsense. The separateness can be seen in operation, but also is very obviously a delusion, once understood. It is pointed to here: As worded, this is a nice little joke, inside of what looks like a riddle (it isn't)... this, in my experience, is the flavor of non-duality - "its" sense of humor. When we can see "emptiness", it is clear that it is the most salient quality of all illusory things, and that what you can see in this moment is also the extent of what can be seen in this moment.This is alluded to in Dogen's (creator of the Soto Zen school) "Instructions for the Tenzo": Words are emptiness. They refer to concepts, not real things. Practice is complete presence in (non-dual) reality in this moment. This moment is everywhere/everything, there is nothing else to do - nothing is hidden. The Dao is this, here, now, without delusions of "self" and "doing" and without time/space. To be transparent and aligned with the Dao, drop the idea of doing by allowing the mind to become still, or REALIZING that the stillness of emptiness is already what permeates all experience. This field of experience "we" are enveloped in acts as a whole, not as a series of parts, and the "Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind" does it all without our input. Even our responses and intentions arise as part of the whole - aren't "ours". It appears that there is "doing", but what appears to be happening happens of its own accord, in timeless, spaceless awareness. Wu Wei is the happening of the phenomenal world without a subject/actor. The subject/actor has dropped away... things happen of their own accord, and are naturally taken care of, including the parts we might have thought "we" were doing. We aren't driving the car. A person lost in the suffering of their separateness, appears to "Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind" like this: ...lost in the delusion that they are in charge. Arguments about how Wu Wei looks that involve how individual pieces on the chess board (animals/people/events) miss the fundamental point. It isn't up to "you'. It isn't about how "you" choose to act, or the kind of person "you" think you are.

...and shades of the Bahiya sutta: ...and the Heart Sutra: ...and: Truly a great document in the canon of non-dual tradtitions.

No ... because I observe that in nature ( with other animals ) .. ie. it is part of the natural world

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cobie! I´m not sure how much rescuing I´ll be up for though in the Year of the Horse; thinking of taking 2026 off. In lieu of a rescue, would you accept some dubious neidan advice (please see my contributions to the new subforum!) or an ironic personal anecdote? Those things are definitely on the docket.

The concept of "ghost in the machine" is a critic of body/mind dualism a la Descartes, but really, without body/integration or psychosomatic integration, we will never understand the meaning of Wuwei. Why ? Because it would always remain a concept separated from the body. To solve this issue we have 性命雙修 so we can transform concepts into real actions in the very real ordinary daily Life.

I just want to make myself clear, I didn't say Wu Wei, "do nothing" is the correct translation! The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering by humans. Something one don't understand need to be explained. This is why we are having this discussionr. We should not have the attitude that a new thing didn't learn before is not acceptable. After we have ironed things out, then something new has been learned. What do you think?

You need to research the meaning of virtue.

' ... and from many sources we gather and weave all the colored threads to weave a tapestry of our own understanding ' .

NOOOOOOOOOOOO ! - Old daobums joke

No, I am not in touch with any banned members.

Chapter 14 The invisible Tao 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。­ 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three are inseparable 5. These three objects blended in one. 6. Its top is not brilliant. 7. Its bottom is not dim. 8. Its continuance is unnameable. 9. Returned to being formless(state of invisibility), 10. Is called a form of no form. 11. An image of formless, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the presence of Tao to see all existing things, 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.