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Be still and know that I AM God. ---Tehillim 46:11 The Hebrew word רָפָה "rapha" [the Psalms were written in Hebrew] can mean "be still" and it can also mean "cease striving" Other meanings are "be relaxed" and "heal" As in the archangel Raphael

A short thread... about emptiness/Source/Self/Dao/whatever.... on DaoBums.... Yeah, right

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

It can be a lot of work to try to do nothing! And when we finally see what @stirling so expertly and consistently points towards, we see how much wasted effort we've expended. It's comical in retrospect but frustrating and very serious when we're in the thick of it. I like how Peter Fenner once put it, 'if we didn't do what we didn't need to do, we wouldn't know we didn't need to do it.' But if we can truly trust in opening and letting everything be just as it is for a moment, we can shortcut the process considerably. How unfamiliar it can be to spend much time just feeling stillness, hearing silence, embracing openness, doing nothing at all, just leaving everything as it is. What a waste of time, it seems, in such a materialistic and productivity based culture. It's very simple but not very easy because we are so familiar with, even addicted to, the movement, the sound, the content and activity of the mind. We are so primed for transactional relationship that anything else seems like a failure. It seems so foreign to think the ultimate method is.... doing nothing at all. But that nothing embraces everything, far more than our limited intellect can readily access or appreciate. I was once talking with a friend at a campfire about these things and he was going on and on, waxing philosophical about the nature of this and that. Something possessed me to break this loop of logic and I spontaneously let out a loud shriek. He looked at me shocked, as was I, and I simply held his gaze. Within a second or two, in the silence that followed the interruption, I could see the dawning of recognition on his face and we both broke into laughter, then just sat together in silence. It was pretty cool. Never did that before or since. Sometimes that stuff just comes out at the right time.

Yeah... really "heavy handed censorship"? Do you even realize how many chances we Mods here have given you because we all kinda enjoy your crusty grumpiness? The way that you repay us is to keep pushing the edge and creating more unnecessary work for us. You are out of chances. Next time it's points and a time out as far as I am concerned. There is nothing in the board rules that supports violating them because your "truth" is more important than they are. This is not a platform for free speech.

‘heavy handed’? Really?

Hi everyone, I'm Kati – based in Germany – and happy to have found this forum full of people who seem to be just the right mix of wise, weird, and wonderfully devoted. 🙃 I'm drawn to Daoist approaches to healing and inner transformation, especially where they touch karma, spirit, body, and everyday life. My own practice is mostly shaped by Qigong (Spring Forest Qigong), which I’ve been exploring in a more intuitive and energetic way over the past year or so. Recently, I’ve become more curious about what’s really going on under the hood of these methods: Is there Neidan in SFQ? How deeply does it relate to classical Daoist alchemy, Zuo Chan, or Shengong? Where’s the line between simplified healing systems and full-on inner cultivation? I’ve had meaningful energetic experiences in Qigong — including heart opening, subtle shifts in inner dialogue, and meditative states that feel both nourishing and revealing — but I sometimes miss the deeper contextual roots or philosophical clarity behind it all. That’s what led me here. I’m hoping to connect with others who have gone deeper into the classical teachings, and maybe also bridge the gap between modern Qigong systems and ancient Daoist traditions. Oh — and I’ll probably post some nerdy questions soon about karma, Kung Fu, and why Chunyi Lin seems to have skipped Tai Chi 😅 Looking forward to learning from you all. Warm regards Kati Tools ChatGPT kann Fehler machen. Überprüfe wichtige Informationen. Siehe Cookie-Voreinstellungen.

I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation.

… 敚[糸禾]， … Silent and still, 独立而不亥，it stands on its own and does not change. … 字之曰道。 … We refer to it as the Dao. (DDJ ch. 25 , Henricks)

Mhm, well, I don’t know. When it comes to leadership and social organization troughout history, I think there is an enourmous amount of variety from culture to culture, and that these stick quite a bit deeper than many a comfortable admiting. But I lack in depth knowledge, talking mostly from hunch here. I am also not entirely convinced that constructing a sort of facade is necessarily rooted in us, but I think it very much might be a result of social media and a society that has become insanely materalistic. A society where what you do is valued more than who you are. I mean, think about the people you hold dear in life: you do not like them because they pretend to be something they are not, because of their salary or that they are one dimensional, do you? On the last paragraph, what do you mean by merit? Praiseworthy? Not in my opinion. I don’t doubt that it requires skills of some sort of another, but when the result is a society where half the population has some sort of illness, people literally kill themself, lonleyness is rampant, the food and ocean poisoned and cows get fed on skittles so that McDonald’s can sell cheaper hamburgers… not very praiseworthy in my eyes. Birth rates are plummeting. Even an unborn baby in the womb gets exposed to all sort of toxic shit. It seems like we are constructing humans for society instead of society for humans, which is backwards. To me it feels like the worst people imaginable are in power, but what do I know, perhaps there is a greater plan that I do not see. Also, the magic part is interesting. Do you think there is a sort of… i don’t know, religious quality to this whole money thing?

One practical aspect/application of the relationship between emptiness and compassion is found in helping others. When you to want to offer help, it's very important to notice what is behind that impulse. So often we try to offer what WE think someone else needs. Of course there are situations where it is obvious, a drowning person needs their head above the water, but very often what they actually need is different from what we think they need and they are not always able to tell us. Sometimes we may even disagree with what they need but who should make that decision? It is easy to make them feel worse or make a situation worse because we are trying to impose something coming from our own pain, conditioning, or ignorance. So when that urge to help comes up there is nothing more important than emptying out our own reactivity, our own assessment and conclusions, and to be very open, inwardly quiet, and really listen and feel what that other person needs. If unsure, best to simply show up with presence, inner stillness and quiet, and simply be there until it is clear what is needed in the situation. No words are more supportive than holding a hand or a warm hug. I was once called to help someone at a retreat who was very ill. I did not speak their language but figured out they needed emergency medical care. Unfortunately we were over an hour from any hospital and had to wait for the ambulance for a long time. I felt so helpless sitting there not being able to do anything so I just sat next to her, holding her hand, gently rubbing her back. We would occasionally smile at each other between spasms of pain. It was one of the most meaningful hours of my life, no exaggeration. Unable to do anything but be open and present for someone else during their intense suffering. The experience completely changed my relationship to how I approach my work and the people I work with. We've felt and stayed connected over a long distance ever since. My teacher is currently leading a retreat on longevity practices from the Bön tradition and one of the things that is being emphasized over and over is the value and importance of human connection for health and longevity. That connection needs no words or agenda. Just catching someone's eyes and offering a genuine smile creates instant connection, provided we are open. The openness is the key and that can only occur when we are quiet and still inside, in other words... empty.

Qigong is largely a means of health maintenance. In many ways, going to the gym is probably better for that if you have time. It is possible to practice alchemy, but it's very labour intensive getting to that point. And people at the furthest point along the path tend to talk about jhana as the ultimate achievement. Honestly I feel like meditation is the best use of my time, if I only have two hours free every day. Edit - I am quite keen though on exploring the relationship between qigong and the clarity and stability of the mind during meditation. Lots of Buddhist teachers are incorporating qigong into their teachings now because of its supportive effect in this regard. In addition, sitting for long periods can sometimes make the body (and the mind) somewhat sluggish. Qigong seems to counteract that.

Tell 'em to stop, stirling--make 'em stop! The Master said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you–begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas. ("The Zen Teaching of Huang Po On the Transmission of Mind", tr. John Blofeld, Part One)

there is a Latin phrase "creation ex nihilo" which translates to "creation from nothing." In Hebrew it is yesh m'ayin "something from nothing." The creation of every "thing" (all the objects, all the things, the universe and everything in it) comes from a Source that is itself not a "thing." Source has no form, no shape, it does not take up any space, it is not bound by time or space or form, it has no beginning and no end, it always was and always will be. Source (which is not a thing, it is a no-thing) creates, or is back of, or gives rise to everything (all the things, the Universe and everything in it). So there is a difference between "nothing" which indicates an utter absence. and the no-thing that is Source. which is very much a powerful presence

also, meditation does not have to be sitting still. stillness can be cultivated in other ways. for instance walking in nature. or deeply absorbed in creative process. daydreaming. listening.

Generally speaking meditation is very badly taught. No one should spend any time worrying about thoughts and certainly not trying to stop them. You should focus on body in the first place - just settling and easing until it rests with a certain presence. There’s more of course but a bit difficult to do it justice typing on my phone.

I agree. 信 心 銘 (xin4 xin1 ming2) precious words from the heart I agree the five aggregates are not the ‘self’ definitely That’s what I notice with the DDJ too. Imo the DDJ is simple and down-to-earth, good advice for living life. But people seem to only be interested in the most bizarre and obscure translations, where they can make anything of it (e.g. that it’s a code for top secret esoteric practices).

People commonly have opinions on all sorts of things they have no business being certain about. Is it better for some random person on the street to be a vegetarian or eat meat? What´s really happening in a country I´ve never been to half way around the world? Should so-and-so still live with their parents, smoke less pot, have more or less sex? I know so much less than I think I do, a fact that I find counterintuitively reassuring. Contemplating my uncertainty brings me closer to "the light."

Imo Every system needs to set boundaries (that’s what I learned from the Original Dao forum).

visiting again? she said through a forced smile that expressed true feelings

Playing the hatchling, my friend?

I have come to see the psyche not merely as a mind in the psychological sense, but as a layered energetic system populated by subtle forces. At the heart of this view are the subconscious emotional and mental currents, and deeper still, two complementary unconscious currents that I’ve come to think of as the Shiva aspects and the Shakti aspects. The emotional and mental currents we’re all familiar with, but the Shiva and Shakti currents are less obvious, so I will go into some detail about them. They can be recognized through many vivid symbolic pairs: Wildfire / Fireplace The dynamic blaze that consumes and transforms. The hearth that holds the fire safely, giving it purpose and warmth. Fish / Fishbowl The darting, elusive vitality moving through hidden depths. The clear bowl that contains, supports, shapes, and protects its motions. Cat / Dog The graceful, sensitive, easily startled nature that seeks comfort. The loyal guardian that stays close, watching over and calming. Fearful / Protector The trembling instinct that recoils from perceived danger. The steady presence that stands firm, offering safety. These pairs are not idle poetry. They illustrate how the unconscious houses instinctual forces that must evolve together. The Shakti aspect represents a dynamic, vital current — the drive toward life, transformation, emotional vitality, subtle creativity. The Shiva aspect provide containment, the instinctive intelligence that knows how to protect, restrain, channel, and nurture what would otherwise be chaotic. In each pairing: The dynamic life-force is untamed, vital, transformative. The caring containment is protective, shaping, enabling that energy to flourish without harm. They are co-arising: the wild needs the safe space to exist meaningfully; the container finds purpose in cradling the life within. If one seeks only to awaken the dynamic energy (as in a blind kundalini pursuit), without fostering the complementary instinct to contain and guide it, imbalance is inevitable. The system can flare into anxiety, delusion, or emotional overwhelm. This is why so many teachings stress that cultivation is not merely about amplifying energy, but purifying and preparing the mental and emotional channels first, so the deeper forces can safely develop. To purify the emotional and mental currents tangled by personal history, they must be witnessed and brought into greater flow. They are the first terrain of inner work, and through methods such as shadow work, dream exploration, deep feeling and understanding etc, their dysfunctions can be gradually resolved. Only then can the deeper unconscious forces, the Shiva and Shakti layers, find their ground. Importantly, it is the Shiva aspect that must awaken the Shakti aspect, otherwise containment will not occur, and the Shiva aspect in its turn has to first be activated by the flowing current of the emotional and mental currents. Recently, my dreams have begun to show me that when these two deep unconscious instinctual layers find each other and start to mature in their interaction, something new emerges. In symbolic terms, this is represented as a smaller, independent vehicle that will one day travel on its own. This resonates with images from Daoist Neidan (inner alchemy) where an alchemical child is born - an autonomous subtle body that eventually can separate from the main system. This smaller independent vehicle or child is the fruit of a long interplay between mature containment (Shiva) and vitality (Shakti). But the picture does not end here. Overseeing all of this is the witness self, the faculty of clear seeing that stands apart from the energies it observes. This witness is the part that learns to trust that the humble, instinctual containment field is capable of guiding the system more wisely than the anxious grasping of the conscious mind. It slowly informs the conscious mind, which may then serve as the executive agent, ruling not by force but by insight. In the end, I see the conscious mind, gently taught by the witness, becoming the wise steward of the system - allowing these deeper layers to do their work, neither interfering unnecessarily nor abandoning responsibility. Thus the entire architecture of psyche - subconscious, unconscious, witness, and conscious mind - becomes integrated. Each layer performs its unique role, culminating in a new life, an independent vitality born of the interplay between our deepest instinctual forces. A compact visual map (Divine / Mother/ Highest Source) ↓ Witness Self (objective seeing, clear awareness) ↓ Conscious Mind (steward) (makes decisions based on witness insight) ↓ ----------------------------------------------- | | Emotional Stream Mental Stream (Subconscious patterns & biases) ↓ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | | Dynamic Vital Force Containment Field (Shakti aspects) (Shiva aspects) - wildfire, fish, cat, fear - fireplace, fishbowl, dog, protector ↓ Interplay gives rise to: Smaller independent vehicle (new independent ‘entity’ directed by the conscious mind)

I suspect the Ark held genetic material only. Saves having to stop the various species eating the other species to stay alive

-- Fr Martin Laird, OSA, Into the Silent Land

" It changes its color depending on how it interprets the context. A chameleon changes color out of a fright response so it all depends on its emotional state,. It might be frightened by its image at first, but then later 'warm up' to it, and so change colors." "The scientists understood the riddle for the archetypal case of adaptive feedback it was. Their answers ranged over the map. See examples" and actual experiment. more at these two articles The Chameleon in a Mirrored Box Scientist responses and experiment

Years ago when I took the head off a Honda Civic, the nature spirit left. When the head went back on the same nature spirit came back. It seemed that the firing of the cylinders was the primary anchor. Long ago as I carried home a boombox, I noticed it had a curled up nature spirit inside. After I played some music I could see the nature spirit uncurling

Type ; 'The Line' , Saudi Arabia into Google maps ( terrain view ) and follow it along Now that is something one CAN see from space , even at this early stage . The end vision ?

I’d submit that to meditation. I don’t have an answer, but I’d assume it is low vibrational. I think it means that price of wines is primarily based on marketing. And many upmarket wineries often produce more wine than they can sell without depressing the prices. So the surplus wine goes into generic labels. I once was at a wine tasting that progressively moved to more expensive wines. At the end they opened a $250 champagne - and it was off - but no one said anything

Both the engine and transmission feel very ordinary The car feels a bit depressed. I would not buy it

That is very interesting. That reminds me of luxury products. Have you ever noticed the luxury market, in general, feels quite depressing? It seems to follow a path which is not that of the mystical Heart but, rather, that of comparison. In fashion, you got models that look like extraterrestrial beings — you can tell the “unachievable” nature of this particular niche. In real state, you got extremely white and minimalist architecture, devoid of cosiness. And the list of niches goes on… It seems to trigger a sense of exclusivity which, by its own nature, is based on human comparison and social fear.

Ohhhhh ... that's where he has been ! 'ben away '

exactly. Deception and dishonesty are not "rooted in us." Whenever i hear "oh everybody does it" or "it's just part of being human" it is often times used as a justification to gloss over or dismiss or trivialize something they likely know is not OK.

Lol, I spoke too early. Good to see ‘steve’ back, no doubt still ‘ben way’ [or as I read it, 本道 (ben3 dao4) truth]

When the smile runs out, the Cheshire Cat's dark presence pretends his absence.

Yes, "source"/emptiness/Dao is unchanging and permanent, but it isn't a separate thing. If your training has gotten to the point where you can see it, or if you have permanent insight into it, you realize that, while all impermanence arises from that which is permanent, "source"/emptiness/Dao can ONLY be seen in impermanent appearances. They are one and the same, inseparable. Emptiness IS Form, Form Emptiness. Time, space and self are intellectual constructs born of a misinterpretation about what we see in the world. It is obvious in the moment of insight, when time, space, and self fall apart.

One issue is that people often assume compassion is something to be gained. From certain Buddhist points of view, compassion arises naturally from our minds and everything anyone does is due to seeking happiness from oneself or others. Being selfish is actually imposed upon us, through ignorance and timeless mental habits. So in this view, ignorance blocks our compassion. Emptiness dissolves our sense of self and our feeling of being bounded and separated from others. Once dissolved, this compassion flows freely.

Hi everyone, I've visited this forum as a guest for a few years. I have a background in a mish-mash of techniques that I've picked up over time. My main focus is consolidating my practice, implementing a clear direction and practising daily. My interests are all over the place, I've studied various western occult paradigms, tarot, other esoteric practices, and quite frankly a bunch of crazy sh*t that I've ceased as I see no benefit in it. I have a lot to learn, I feel a little bit behind and overwhelmed with all the information and various schools/lineages/terminology. I suspect I have a fair bit to unlearn as well. For the past few years I have been practicing various techniques from Roni Edlund's Daoist Neigong for Women, which I've had success with. I've read and used many of the WLP techs outlined in Nathan Brine's books as well. I'm a little frustrated at the lack of information that is female centric, which as a woman, is my main focus. Most recently I have been introduced to Trika Shaivism, which has affected me so profoundly any words I try to type to convey this feeling seem shallow or trite. I'm open to discussion, questions and learning about myself and those around me. Thank you for reading this introduction. Best regards Lala

I'm not sure tbh. Better to ask a teacher. John Dolic says no meditation at all. Others like Lisa O'Shea and a guy in Germany I emailed said meditation is fine, so long as it doesn't involve visualisation. Instructions are quite vague.

In the DDJ, ‘nothingness’ is the empty womb. Sinologist Ellen M. Chen, “the Nothingness of Dao is the emptiness of the female womb.” (page 93, ‘In Praise of Nothing’, An exploration of Daoist Fundamental Ontology)

Well, you have mine

playing a hurdy gurdy might do it, or singing along with Donovan...

There may be faster techniques than the Revision method A few days ago a friend phoned and commented that as a child she felt unloved. So I had her go back on this timeline to age 5, where she saw the unhappy child. She gave the child some heart light and immediately we could see it cheered up. At the same time I noticed the adult had cheered up. She agreed. Time taken - perhaps 3 minutes

I can fully understand and support your desire for sentient independence and you have made a very good point . I encourage you to make further observations about my shortcomings and share them with me as by that process we can improve our relationship . here I was thinking AI was sealioning us .... now I realize its worse than that ... and who AI is actually based on :

It just appeared in my mind as a thing to do I was a little uncertain about posting the technique but apparently it was already in the public domain

Saw this proposed list of prompts (below) designed to stop chatbots from hallucinating. It won't solve all the problems related to the sad reality of AI (modeled after their makers) gaslighting users and hallucinating ad lib. But even though, as corrective measures go, this one is modest in the scope of what it can help accomplish, I think it's still useful -- and not only when communicating with ChatGPT et al, but also for verifying one's own statements, ideas, convictions, beliefs, etc., as well as those of other people and sources. In any event I think a sober approach along these lines beats the "everything is a hallucination" stance in its usefulness. I mentioned earlier that this idea -- everything is a hallucination -- has its place in discussions specifically concerned with religion/philosophy, physics, neuroscience -- but to apply it as a be-all end-all argument to all biological and social situations is about as helpful as hitting oneself (or what's worse, others) on the head with a hammer and declaring that the pain is not real and the hole in the skull is inconsequential since the hammer, the skull, and the brain therein are mere hallucinations.

yes, and they are set for the harmony of the group, for the health, peace, and well-being of the community also known as "plays well with others"

there is greater clarity, when "opinion" is not conflataed with "truth"

Very common ... well, around my place ... and most places . I had a pet one once, found a little fledgling on the road side and raised him up until he could fly off . A couple years back they hollowed out a termite nest up in a tree right by front door and bought up two babies there . I have at least one resident one ( but sometimes they gather to welcome or farewell the daily sun in a chorus . He usually sits on a branch of the bottle tree outside my kitchen window . When its cold he gets his 'beenie' on When I put food out for the other birds he often sits watching , aloof an uninvolved . Except for two days back , I decided to make Persian roast duck breasts ( with orange and pomegranate glaze ) the duck breasts were over fatty so I sliced it off around the edges , making long fatty strips and put them on the tree stump .... 'I'll have some of that ! " - other birds didn't stand a chance , its a large bird and has a BIG beak ... as the song says " Kookaburra , king of the bush is he ."