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( Not sure if this should be in this general section or the teachers sections ? Mods, feel free to move it ) First, I am not going to try to sell you anything or 'sign you up' for lessons . This about the Tao te Ching ... not the Tao te Ka-Ching! ' Ch 1 . There is this thing . Its also not a thing . Also it is both a thing and not a thing. It also is neither a thing or not a thing. It is all of the above . But it isn't any of them . If you have dont want stuff well - that's a mystery ! If you do want stuff The whole manifested Universe awaits you . let;s say you have two spring rolls both may have the same sauce but they can have different names depending on whats inside them and that can be a mystery of mysteries . Ch 2 You think my sister looks hot but that's because Yo Momma be ugly. You guys can only see either end of the line . But the Sage just sees the whole line . You cant have stuff without no stuff. Stuff is just lines , not ends . Back always follows front otherwise you be chasing your own tail. Ch 3 If you flatter people they will try harder to impress you. If you overvalue stuff you will pay more for it. Try to please people and they will get suspicious. Forget what you know and what you want Stop doing stuff all the time ! Ch 4 If the thing is empty and has no source it cant run out alls it got is little potential n+ s and n- s that make nuthings . Then put your hara in the center of all that . Ch 5 the Universe is neutral Judgement is based on comfort . The space between heaven and earth is the atmosphere It can get windy Stick to the surface or you could get blown away . Ch 6 The valley here is under a 'Big Mom' dome . My teacher said just ask her for whatever you want - you'll get it . Ch 7 heaven and earth last forever Why do heaven and earth last forever ? I just told you it did stop asking questions. If you dont do anything you cant fail at it . Ch 8 be like water then you will be good for all living things and flow along without thinking where you are going who knows where you will end up ? But dont be an arsehole about it . Ch 9 Stop taking and using up all our stuff ! Dont re-tune your lawnmower if it doesnt need it. leave things alone , fer Gawd's sake ! Ch 10 if you can be like a baby woman thats good . (tbc)

By Deng Ming-Dao SEGMENTATION AND TRANSLATION See this block of text? It’s the arrangement of the first chapter of the Dàodéjīng before the last hundred years. If you open an old Chinese version of the Dàodéjīng, each chapter will be a block of text. No punctuation, word spacing, capital letters, or paragraphs. Distinguishing between single words and compound terms remains as much of a problem today as it was in ancient times. Imagine reading chapter 1 without the punctuation added in the early twentieth century. Reading the Dàodéjīng in its old form thus began with a practice called segmentation. You can find red dots, hóngdiǎn, 紅點, in the margins of used books, indicating where past readers began dividing, deciding, and decoding. This practice was called “sentence division,” jùdòu, 句讀, and is still done today when reading the received classics—and with only partial consensus: “Many researchers have tested Chinese native speakers’ word segmentation; a common finding is that participants can only reach about 75% agreement, and have difficulties replicating their own previous segmentation.” (Zhang, 2024) Even after the segmentation process, the text continues to challenge modern readers. The Dàodéjīng lacks plurality; past, present, or future tense; pronouns, conjunctions, prepositions; gendered nouns; or punctuation, word spacing, or paragraph indents. Sentences might not have a subject. Verbs lack conjugation. Moreover, Chinese ideograms are sometimes used singly and sometimes combined to make compound terms. Lǎozì may employ a compound term in one case and then use those constituent words separately in other cases. For example, line 71.1 uses the word for “know,” zhī, 知, four times: 知不知上不知知病. This translates to: “know don’t know superior; don’t know, know sick.” Bùzhī, 不知, means “not know.” Otherwise, zhī, 知, should be read as a single word. If you combine the issues of segmentation with the multiple-meanings of words, you can see that no single, absolutely “right” version is possible. Reading the Dàodéjīng in Chinese is like getting a box of ideograms on tiles, and then trying to assemble them as if it was a Scrabble game. This makes translation an interpretive as much as a critical process. Of course, everybody today will use the punctuated versions, but it’s worth remembering that segmentation is arbitrary and once had to be provided by each reader. Nevertheless, gaining the wisdom of the Dàodéjīng is well worth the effort! That's why it's survived for 2,600 years and has spread around the world.

FYI Only some.

The Dao that can be told is not the real Dao. The Daodejing, as understood by a given person, is likely not the real Daodejing. Very cool! (I love a little mystery, the sense that the outside world -- other people, classical texts, the universe -- aren´t completely knowable. To me, that´s reassuring.)

Endless hand wringing, navel gazing, and gate keeping about translations of the Daodejing are not the eternal Daodejing. (Sorry, feeling a bit pugnacious) 🤪

I know it's been awhile since I was last here, and I still don't really plan on being active but there were some pretty cool people that I just wanted to drop in and give an update to. So last summer I moved to Germany to get away from the United States for obvious reasons. I'm very happy I left the US and I love Germany.

Only some. The taboo turned 恆 into a synonym; it did not affect 常 . You can check on DIO. E.g. for ch. 1 it shows both MWD A and B with 恆 (http://www.daoisopen.com/downloads/CC1.pdf). For ch. 16, both MWD A and B have 常 four times (http://www.daoisopen.com/downloads/CC16.pdf).

And you Sir .... are like a big jam doughnut .

At the most basic level you should be able to see Qi. Beginner cultivators with just 3-5 years of training can see it. Getting that ability would pretty much destroy what most people think about a ton of these so-called great teachers and reveal what their actual level (non-imaginary) really is. If you still can’t see it after decades of "training" the chances are very high (about 100%) you’re stuck in some cult or another worthless scamgong group that doesn’t teach anything useful. There’s honestly no point in discussing cultivation stuff, accomplishments, milestones, levels, and so on, with someone who can’t even see the densest energy out there. Like you can't see anything. You are confused. A lifelong 30+ years, ego trip with nothing to show in the end, unfortunate, but well deserved.

can anyone relate? I can.

This is what the world has been waiting for.

Your presence is so blindingly radiant that even the sun feels a sudden, deep-seated sense of professional inadequacy just looking at you. edit: on the real tho (although the flattery was, yes, over the top, but somewhat sincere as well: it is not with out reason we call the famous Chinese teacher Confucius and say «this is Chinese to me» when we don’t understand something, is it? And please, I hope you (plural) understand that I mean no disrespect to any of you. I’m completely ignorant of the Chinese tradition, and if I did offend anyone, I sincerely apologize.

The way I see it: IF you witness an act of evil being committed, and IF it is in your power to step in and put an end to it; do so. If not: shine brightly my friends

Bg 2.17 That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

I´m of the opinion that all human beings are ultimately unknowable -- a very good thing. You, Lairg, are perhaps more unknowable than most.

Hello Maddie, Glad to hear things are working out for you in Germany and like you said for obvious reasons! There is so much bad mojo and violent unravelling going on in some parts of the world that its hard to believe although tons of people are also pushing back on that! You are looking good and Take care....

OK... so I think I want to see a "Dao According to Nungali" thread!

Reserve is good -- I for one don't care for his politics -- but he's a taoist, associates himself with Quanzhen school, and is not a buddhist. And what am I, chopped liver?

The point Deng Ming-Dao was making and I agree with is, anyone who claims a better understanding of DDJ solely on the merit of being fluent in Chinese, or being a respected Sinologist, or even a lineage taoist, is ultimately in the same boat as a native English speaker dealing with Beowulf, only a bigger one. I.e. knowing the modern version of the language, by itself, or knowing the culture and traditions, or their development through the ages, is still nowhere near enough to make claims about presenting "the correct version." Even the meaning of the very first line, which became a meme of sorts, is the product of interpretations rather than of Laozi's calligraphy brush -- which produced only this opening: "Tao can be told, tao is not eternal." So one has to superimpose the kind of grammar (absent from the original) that will allow to ascribe to Laozi a statement that not only was never made by him but is the opposite of what he actually wrote verbatim. And then just repeat it for two and a half thousand years. That beats Lewis Carrol's "what I tell you three times is true" with a vengeance. But what if we don't do that? What if we take those words for face value instead? Then this line can be read as, say, the opening manifesto of a writer who asserts his right to write about tao. Tao can be told. I, Laozi, can tell you about it. I can tell about it here and now. I am not an eternal being, and so I'm not tackling an eternal subject -- just the here-and-now tao which is what I can tell you about. How's that?

I think it would take multiple visualization sessions for ki deviation to occur. It wouldn't happen in a single session. If it happened in a single practice it had other causes.