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Merry Christmas to all of my Christian friends! May the holiday spirit bring unconditional joy, good health, and peace into your lives. And may we come closer in the coming year to a life of peace and mutual understanding.

There's a very popular Chinese rapper who goes by the name Skai Isyourgod (Sky is your god) who peppers his songs with "mysterious" lines imitating or even citing daoist classics. "Sushi has come from the east. One yin, one yang, that is called the dao, purple qi arrives from the east." This is a veritable mass transmission -- his followers count in the tens of millions. This reminded me of something... Something about this thread... and many others by some resident dao rappers...

I don't think that is accurate. Breathing is a bodily functions that can occur with or without intention, attention, or engagement of any sort. Breathing occurs naturally and spontaneously, even in deep sleep or when unconscious. Intention can be used to override reflexive breathing but is not required.

More your ideas, interpretations, and the tenor of your presentation, not you personally for the most part I think. You have your interpretation and ideas, others may hold different ones. When it comes to this type of material, some have a great deal invested. It is not surprising people get reactive when told they are completely wrong, especially when the subject matter is close to their heart, and it works in both directions. I think disagreement is healthy and can lead to deeper understanding if everyone can interact with respect.

Why not start a new thread?

I think a name, per DDJ 1, generally refers to something specific coalescing into existence. Nothing is truly fixed, but for a time it may be specific enough to warrant a name. Morality is an orientation or direction. If one's specific actions are aligned with the Dao, then this would be a more righteous action than specific actions that merely scatter energy into creation.

Taoist troll Vs Neidan gestapo, a highly anticipated production bring to you by your grandma crossing the street! (the fierce fight between Dragon and Tiger organized by the match maker)

I hope this is not from qigong book. I think mods should change the title of the thread. The new title should be smth like "My thoughts on qigong cultivation" Otherwise it looks like trolling

OK - correct me if I'm wrong but to sum up what you are saying so far. Neidan texts are over mystified by western translation. Jing is body cells. Qi is ATP Shen is something that guides the body (?) The process of Neidan is deep abdominal breathing - because this gives good cell health and vitality. The Dan is nothing more than health produced in this way. In effect there is no real difference between qigong and neidan (?). Is this roughly correct in your view?

Because they love music too! Like the Dao, music is universal.

I will message you an answer, rather than derail this thread. Anyone who would like to view the answer can PM me. _/\_

Your experience is inspiring, it resemble a blossoming without obstructions. I don't know how to call the beautiful diversity of experiences coming to a same realization, if you have an idea please tell me ! 😊

TMH (@thememoryhole): "Viktor Frankl on the Importance of Overestimating People"

Absolutely... the DAO! There IS only one "teacher". Is this a belief or experience? If the figures are "legendary", are from "Chinese lore", are "associated with embodying" conceptual virtues, serve "deities or emperors" you can't meet, or appear in "fantasy settings" they may POINT to constructed aspects of the Dao, but are simply conceptual constructs, NOT the Dao. The Dao, or "non-duality" is a much deeper reality than any pantheon of "immortals", gods and goddesses that can be attributed conceptual constructs. The Dao HAS no qualities, no embodiment, and is not truly represented by any idea or icon. Who or what becomes "immortal"? The Dao is the only "immortal" thing, but that doesn't mean what you might think it means. It is entirely possible to be shown the Dao, or find it yourself in stillness. It is omnipresent. No-one and no-thing else is required.

Chapter 1 The introduction of Tao 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無，名天地之始。 4. 有，名萬物之母。 5. 故常無，欲以觀其妙。 6. 常有，欲以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。 Revised as of 2-27-12 / 9-28-23 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. 2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name. 3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of sky and earth. 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things. 5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale. 6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary. 7. These two come from one origin but differ in name, 8. Both are regarded as unfathomable, the most occult and profound; 9. The gate of all subtleties.

So true … when alone in solitude I cry out to my master to deliver the blow which will deliver my final awakening .. I pray thus: My loneliness is killing me (and I) I must confess, I still believe (still believe) When I’m not with you I lose my mind Give me a sign Hit me, baby, one more time

Yes! If in TCM, jing is defined as the structure of the body, and in modern science, cell is the basic unit of the body. Don't you get the implication that the Jing is equivalent to the body cell? Qi is ATP Yes! 氣 is the vital source keep the body in tact by the TCM definition. In modern science, ATP is biological energy to keep the body to function normally. Do you see the similarity between them? Yes, here and only here, I would say 氣 is ATP. Shen is something that guides the body (?) Yes, 神 (shen) is like the mind of the body or the soul of the body. The process of Neidan is deep abdominal breathing - because this gives good cell health and vitality. Yes, that was exactly the point I was making all along. The Dan is nothing more than health produced in this way. Yes, exactly. 內丹(Neidan) is a virtual pill. The ancient Taoist thought it could be produced by the 內丹術. In effect there is no real difference between qigong and neidan (?). It is because both method involves breathing. BTW It is safe to say, any method involves with breathing would be considered 氣功. It is because by definition, 氣功 is the method of breathing. Somehow, I think the Chinese teachers had misled the public. Since they told the definition of 氣 is "energy" in the west, the Chinese are starting to think that is what it is too. Is this roughly correct in your view? Yes, that is exactly correct in my view. Thank you for your patience and being a good listener. You are a gentleman and a scholar! PS It seems you have captured all of what I said. I don't know if you are resonated with me or not? I love to hear your view too!

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7452879/ https://nigms.nih.gov/biobeat/2020/05/the-maternal-magic-of-mitochondria

I will leave it at Wu Wei!

This thread is not in your PPD but in ‘Daoist Discussion’’. Does that mean you are inviting comments? And if so, may those comments be of a highly critical nature?

Yes, for sure when reading this sort of information we can feel provoked or offended and react accordingly. Alternatively, we can consider it simply as entertainment rather than education and leave it be. That has become my approach, when possible. It's just not worth the effort and energy required to argue, knowing rational discussion will not change certain people's opinions. If we are coming here or use AI to learn about how to practice neidan, we have already lost, IMO. On the other hand, we can learn something about ourselves and our ideas when confronted with opposing ideas, no matter how ridiculous or far-fetched they may seem. I think there is some degree of truth and wisdom in bringing neidan and Daoist concepts down to Earth and into our own lived experience, something ChiDragon's perspective can remind us of. Is every neidan text and teaching simply asking us to sit quietly and breath intentionally? Of course not. Having had a dozen years of instruction and correction from a credible teacher, I have my own opinions and understanding, but I do think that many people tend to create mystery and distance between themselves and their views and practice, particularly in Daoist practices and in Chinese internal martial arts.

Yes, it is formulated in an unclear way, we are both non-native English speakers

@ChiDragon my bad, i thought i wrote 靜功 somewhere!

May be we view this thread, only this thread, in this way. As Apech pointed out: If we go to any specific subject board/forum, but we don't believe in their basic concepts, and we are having no experience of it, yet we use AI to translate some random texts and tell them what their interest really is, with some really doubtful statements. It would not be received amicably, and could be viewed as provocation. The matter is about how it is done but not about differences in opinion. Indeed if the title is rectified as below. It would be easier for everyone.

清静無為 is the philosophy from the TTC and it was advocated by Loatze. The idea is "let nature take its course." It was not suggested nor related to breathing at all.

Moderation Note: Sorry guys but no politics on DaoBums. Last three posts hidden by me. Happy Christmas.

Feliz natal todos.

The snow frames the window panes , the scent of the real Christmas tree wafts through the house . The fire burns brightly in the grate while Granddad naps in the chair after too much pudding and brandy sauce . Mum and Gran are cleaning up after the Christmas lunch, the kids play happily on the floor with their new toys and dad puts on some Christmas music ;

It is very interesting, i'll look into Advaita more thoroughly, so far it immediately made me think that to take a dualist approach aiming at the integration of opposites (YinYang), a careful review of the western modern concept about body and mind or Cartesian dualism may be necessary, because this type of dualism seems to be very prone to create some kind of 'absolute self-centered systems' which by definition would build walls instead of bridges between individuals and the origin of One. If you are interested in 'babel's tower spell problems,' Ferdinand de Saussure is a good reference to think about the dualistic nature of our langage behaviours.

That is always what I hope. It is the non-dual experience as it appears to me, expressed in the simplest language I can muster. _/\_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

The Taoists cannot explicitly explain what was taken place inside the body, but they had given us a big clue why it works was the breathing. Luckily, they had given us a breathing method teaching us how to breathe to practice the method of Neidan.

The idea of transformation of three treasures with the follow procedure. 1. Transform 精 into 氣 練精化氣: 透過適當的靜坐、呼吸法，我們可以有效地保留並強化精，達到身體健康和長壽的效果。 Through zazen and the method of breathing, we may be effectively preserve and invigorate 精. Since 精 is the structure of the body, it makes to body healthier and reach the goal of longevity. What it is really saying here? It says we are preserving and invigorating 精 with breathing. Isn't that makes breathing is the key player here? The ancient Taoists practiced breathing and it works for them. Can they explain why it works and how it works. Yes, virtually, they had a way to express it. Somehow, they sure had made it very miserable for the modern people to understand. I must admire the wisdom and intelligence of the Taoist. At least, they came up with the idea of Naidan seems reasonable. However, what about the part of transformation of 氣 and 神? These two processes are taken place inside the body. How do they know what was going on inside the body. Unfortunately, Taoists were explained in their own way. That is why we getting all kinds of wild stories. The problem with the stories was that they were using their esoteric terms only they can comprehend. Can you imaging those who tried to interpret and translate them without the understand of the Taoist language. Hence, we may come to a conclusion the rest of the procedures are immartial. It is because the body will take care itself. People may say whatever they want.

Yes, I think so. The Dao is here, now, not subject to special circumstances, not a special state, or place. Definitely. We are very convinced that we are somehow separate from the Dao is, or that things in this moment are not exactly as they should be. We feel we should be contriving a reality that suits us. All of that activity pushes us further from the simple realization of things as they are. That hasn't been my experience, in fact I believe it is the easiest way. It all comes down to how easily you can surrender your idea of "self" and control. The Way isn't painful, it is the ego/self that creates and experiences the pain, based on its struggle with how reality is perceived. Even in resistance things are still aligned. In meditation we can rest in stillness and see what it is to live without struggle, and realize that there is only the struggle we create. _/\_ Be as nature is!

Isn't the Way always about letting something return to the nature, to let the nature govern? But we are human beings, always trying to rule over everything and everyone, thinking we are the best, the smartest, the only one to be right... To let the nature rule so that nothing is left unattended must really be a very long and difficult Way to follow, a real painful struggle to go through. Different teachings, different teachers, different learners...all forgetting to bow together as one to the nature, the only legitimate master and owner of truth for all living beings. 天之道, 損有餘而補不足. 人之道, 則不然, 損不足以, 奉有餘. How to let the Way of the nature re-order our human ways so that they return to the nature's norm?

Where else would it come from? True knowledge of the Dao comes from teachings that humans have written? This happens all of the time in Buddhism, another non-dual tradition - there is even a name for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddhayāna I have actually met one. They are real... and why wouldn't they be, given the nature of the Dao/Enlightenment? I Agree that a realized teacher can be very useful, but completely understanding the Dao isn't a concept that a teacher can pass on, only point to. It isn't an intellectual concept that a person "owns". A realized teacher can point it out anywhere, at any time. Any teacher that pushes the idea that they are somehow the gatekeeper of the Dao isn't fully realized and is greatly deluded.

It depends on sect but from what i know - In the West, northern schools have become widespread, where the main emphasis is on Xing, and Ming, if cultivated at all, is done so to a lesser extent in the initial stages of practice. Ideally, there should be a precise 50/50 balance, otherwise there is a significant risk of deviations. In very rare systems, such a correct ratio of cultivation methods for Xing and Ming exists

People can use whatever words and say whatever they want outside of neidan, but if you are talking about neidan, use the correct terminology and meanings

Haha! How could I intend to teach? There is no student here. I am so lonely here. I just want to find someone that I can talk to. Hopefully, we can share some common knowledge.

Coincidentally I mentioned quite some time ago his intention was to teach. He was quite unhappy towards my observation.

@ChiDragon Impossible to operate a software without hardware. In the same way, impossible to separate intangible phenomenas from tangible ones, just like we can't separate meanings from caracters, letters, words and sentences etc. If this is what you meant in this thread from the beginning, i couldn't agree more with you. If you used AI to prove a point about virtuality, you are really naughty because AI is somewhat a symptomatic reflection of the body/mind differenciation disease affecting human beings in various ways. Please have a look at this article https://qi-encyclopedia.com/article.php?&id=47 Without 理, no ways to explore 氣, 性 and 命 real meanings. We can't reasonably blame Neidan people for having no interest in discovering the 理 of things, it might break their hearts into pieces doing so and you know how it is difficult to heal a heart arising from a stone hard 信 within one's 命 after it was broken, especially if it was the main 'frequency'. By the way, if we speak about resonance between living beings and between living beings and the nature, we can't use terms like 'vibratory frequencies' or 'quantum entaglements' from physics anymore, it would ruin the feeling. Emphasizing the meaning and value of '求大同, 存小異, 和而不同, 周而不比, 齊物共生' is what i will try my best to do here.

ok If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

Cookies Santa keeps are so full of glyphosate he is MonSanta.

I think I'll keep them– these rhythms, this reverence. All else I release.

🏔️

Finally someone has mentioned xing. Or is that ming. I always mix them up. A slightly less obscure translation might be disposition 性, and direction 命.

“The truth” is a rare commodity. If you are convinced that it belongs to you, be prepared to find out that it doesn’t, eventually.

careful.. 養生 Yǎngshēng is for fitness and nutrition. The yangshenggong mentioned is various life-prolonging exercise. 陽神 Yángshén is part of the mobilized light body, e.g. what someone might see floating above your head after you've practiced for ten thousand hours.

Very refreshing. In my then-atheistic old country we used to celebrate the New Year with the same gusto that was reserved for Christmas in the non-atheistic parts of the world. This is the picture of the last New Year's tree I saw, located within a short walking distance from where I lived. It wasn't the main one in the city, and therefore not the biggest -- but it was nice, and fully real. Our Grandfather Frost is not unlike Santa, but dresses somewhat differently (the hat especially) and doesn't go down the chimney, nor scrutinizes kids for who's naughty and who's nice, everybody gets a present. Adults didn't exchange presents, those were exclusively for kids -- whereas adults just threw and/or attended a party, usually the biggest party of the year.

Set a timer for two minutes. Close your eyes and observe your internal environment with as many of your senses as you can. Just look and be attentive. Train your energy to pool inwards instead of disperse outwards. The outside can wait. The timer will let you know when to wrap up. Practice at least once every day. Increase the amount of time when you want to. Keep track of your progress on any kind of calendar or journal that suits you. That's it. That's the practice. But Nintendao, all you've described is a most basic form of meditation. Don't you have to kan li your yuan qi to xing ming the xuan guan? Yes. Yes you do.