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I stopped at ' Japan is west of China... if you row across two oceans' . I can affirm its not . ... and I have rowed from Australia to Portugal !

This is perhaps the most important discernment in dzogchen. What is the mind, what is its nature or essence, and how are the two distinguished and how do they relate to the self and ultimate reality? The ways of teaching this can be complicated because different people require different things to "get it." It's not a conceptual or intellectual definition because that is still the territory of the mind, which generally considers itself the only tool available for "understanding," not yet trusting anything outside of its realm, and yet not appreciating its own limitations when considering that which may be beyond its grasp. So there are several methods, often relying on simile and metaphor as well as meditative methods. This might be a topic for a different thread.

Imagination.

books, brushes, inks, cat, all carefully stowed away. Lantern out. Cat out!

I think it's more of a joust. Or maybe a drinking game...

I have been hearing that lot of newcomers that they have practicing or practiced Neidan. It just dawned on me with curiosity. How people do their practice or what they think that is? I would to hear their comments before I introduce the original Taoist method of Neidan. I mean in the Chinese version with the help of AI. I have been using Gemini AI which gives me a very good explanation in the Chinese language. However, one may tell it in any way just for the purpose of comparison only. Thanks!

Start by reading Zechariah Sitchin. He is a bit materialistic but still a big step forward https://archive.org/search?query=Zechariah+Sitchin&and[]=mediatype%3A"texts" After reading Sitchin try some of the material on the exopolitics site

No one has the perfect answer to this complex topic. Btw, you answered yourself in the second paragraph. The ultimate YOU projects each mini-copies of you which will vary accordingly. View them as leaves on the tree connected by the branches. We all store tiny fragments of all our lifetimes. You can access them via deep meditation, but it's a siddhi so not everyone may have developed that ability. Rather then being a small drop we are the ENTIRE OCEAN.

I was just kidding. "Western Origins of Yijing." I guess its the "Western Origins" that still bugs me. Granted, everything west of china is west of china, including china itself and japan if you row across two oceans. The article is actually pretty interesting, though, I only now just read it Isn't the hypothesis just that the Yellow Emperor possibly came from an indo-european-derivative speaking people, alright ill say it, from the West....? Kublai Kahn was a mongol, though and doesn't mean everything in the Yuan-period came from mongolia... Seems like he focuses on the culture that has been attributed to "indo-europeans" like agricultural practices and the use of chariots and then the yijing and doaism itself, but isn't it possible for those cultural things like chariots and agriculture to migrate through ordinary cultural exchange independently. Also it seemed like the arguments about the Yijing and doaism were a little tenuous. First of all, the fact that different cultures have the number 3, does not mean a whole lot. I for one worship 7, but that's just me. I think he is just using that to support his yellow emperor theory, but feels like there is a lot of conjecture in there, though I dont know. If the question is whether there was cultural exchange in china with indo european speaking peoples in the bronze age, Seems like the answer is yes. how could there not be. The bronze age was a groovy time, baby.

Gloria Gaynor .

No one

Progress is a myth.

Who claims that ??? and no, not all good comes from the west :

Australian desert dragon ; Thorny Devils ( ' Moloch horridus ' ) are really small but a wonderful lizard . You can put your hand under them , under the sand and scoop them up . They dont seem to mind and dont move while you do it, or maybe just a bit . On your hand they just sit there, maybe cock their head to look at you . It is illegeal to 'interfere' or touch them .... but I was with an indigenous elder and he instructed me to to do it as it was a desert sand 'roadway ' , so we moved them to safety . Curious little fellahs

Yes, it's true. There are websites where you enter your birth date, time, and place, and they’ll generate a profile plus timing forecasts. They sort people into “types” (or patterns) and describe traits, strengths, weak spots, and likely life cycles. The specific framework depends on the method: BaZi, Liu Yao, Qi Men, Ziwei Doushu, Da Liu Ren, and Tai Yi are systems built from classic Chinese cosmology and technical traditions, with Liu Yao being the one that most directly runs through the Yijing. Each uses a similar, but slightly different framework. BaZi (Four Pillars) uses the sexagenary calendar (Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches), yin–yang, and the Five Phases (Wood / Fire / Earth / Metal / Water) to describe your baseline pattern and how luck cycles shift over time. It’s usually read through the Four Pillars (year, month, day, hour), the Day Master, the balance of elements, “ten gods” relationship categories, and multi-year luck cycles (commonly described as 10-year cycles) plus year-by-year and month-by-month influences. Liu Yao (Wen Wang Gua) is directly based on the Yijing: you cast a hexagram and read changing lines for a specific question. The reading observes which lines change, the moving-to hexagram, and the role each line plays in a structured way (like “roles” inside the hexagram), so it’s less about a personality profile and more about diagnosing a situation, timing, and likely outcomes if nothing changes. Qi Men Dun Jia uses a time-and-space chart (stems, doors, stars, deities, palaces) to judge momentum, timing, and best actions for a situation. It’s used for strategy: what to do first, what to avoid, what direction supports the goal, what obstacles are active, and what timing window is strongest. Zi Wei Dou Shu (Purple Star) is another common system that can be done from birth details and produces a chart with “palaces” and stars placed into them. It tends to be read as a life map: personality patterns, relationship patterns, career themes, health tendencies, and timing cycles based on how the palaces and stars activate over time. Da Liu Ren is a calendrical divination method that also builds a chart from a moment in time, then reads layers of relationships inside the chart to answer a question. It’s treated as technical and situational, and readers use it to judge dynamics, hidden factors, and timing. Tai Yi is another high-level method that uses time cycles and chart structures to forecast trends and larger-scale momentum. It’s discussed alongside Qi Men and Liu Ren as part of the older “strategic timing” traditions. Western divination has the same structure mainly through astrology (natal charts, transits, progressions, solar returns, horary), which can also be calculated and assessed online. Many sites generate a natal chart from birth data, then add timing forecasts by tracking how current planetary cycles interact with that chart, and some also offer question-based astrology (horary) that functions more like situational divination than a personality profile. I'm partial to Bazi Calculator for Chinese divination, and it offers calculators for a handful of systems. For online Yijing readings, I prefer Hilary Barrett's version. For Western astrology, the calculators I use are through Serennu and Astro-Seek.

A curious conversation . years back around the fire ; an aboriginal guy ; '' I dont get that white people philosophy stuff ?'' Me ; '' What stuff ? '' '' All that who am I , why am I here , what is the purpose of life ? I mean ... if you dont lknow any of that how you gonna do anything else ? How can you go through life like that without knowing who you are and why you are here ? You would think people like would make a real mess of things and not have a clue .'' Me ; '' Ummmmm .... well, yeah ! '' '' What do you mean ?'' Me ; < makes a gesture to include everything > '' Ohhhh ... right ! ''

Nungali ... I know it's Sweatman but just give it a chance ... ok?

This was a fascinating read. I find the sky-father deities and twin progenitors to be the weakest part of the argument. Those patterns show up in too many cultures to carry much weight on their own. I've always been interested in the appearance of a threefold pattern in the Daodejing, so that catches my eye. What intrigues me most, given my interests, is the proposed connection between Xi Wangmu, the Queen Mother of the West, and Kubala of Carchemish, Great Mother of the Mountains (and later as Cybele of Anatolia, Queen of Heaven and Earth.) I also think it's interesting that the Yijing trigram names may be Indo-European words, that the heavenly stems and earthly branches share a very old source with the Phoenician alphabet, and that Old Chinese itself may hold many Indo-European loanwords. It is clear there was real contact, influence, and exchange between these worlds. My question is, if Indo-Europeans created the Yijing and the Daodejing as distinct systems, separate from early Chinese culture, where is that system now in their own traditions? China, despite repeated waves of loss and destruction, has held onto these texts and developed their philosophy for thousands of years. If the deeper origin really lay with Indo-Europeans, where is the parallel, continuous lineage on their side? ---------------- 1. Mythological and Religious Parallels between Early China and Indo-Europeans • Sky Father Deities • Twin Progenitors and Sibling-Creators • Tripartite Functions and the Three Sovereigns • Western Paradise and the Queen Mother • Kunlun Mountain and the Cosmic Pillar • Jade, Immortality, and Steppe Connections • Foreign Ancestry of Culture Heroes 2. Linguistic and Textual Evidence (Yijing Trigrams and Language Contacts) • Yi Jing Trigram Names as Indo-European Words • Binary Structure and Yin–Yang Dualism as Indo-European Pattern • Heavenly Stems / Phoenician Alphabet Parallels • Old Chinese Loanwords from Indo-European Languages • Feudalism and Social Structure Parallels 3. Cultural and Philosophical Comparisons • Nomadic vs. Sedentary Lifestyle Fusion • Mandate of Heaven and Indo-European Moral Kingship • Chariot Technology and Warrior Aristocracy • Recording of History and Philosophical Consciousness 4. Archaeological, Genetic, and Migration Evidence • Tarim Basin Caucasian Mummies • Europoid Skulls at Anyang • Chariot and Horse Burials in Western Zhou • Steppe Cultural Motifs in Bronze, Art, and Tools • Migrations of Yuezhi, Wusun, Qiang, and Western Rong Near Zhou

Which Bible ? There is the Jewish Bible , that Jews obviously wrote * and the Christian Bible with Old and New Testaments , that was 'collated' by various people and processes . * Lairg seems confused that although the Jews adopted many stories in the Jewish Bible , they ( the Jews ) actually re wrote, adapted and collated them into the Jewish Bible - so of course, the Jews * wrote the Jewish Bible ... but they didnt come up with the original versions for many of the adopted/ collated stories . - Josiah's scribes seem the culprits .... they 'found' the 'Torah ' in the Temple they were rebuilding . However the Bible stories might have been known and built upon throughout the whole area in a non oral tradition dating from the 10thC BC up to 100 CE. The text compiled between the 8th and 6th C BC with current redaction 6th to 5th BC using the stories like David and King Solomon and a Unified Jewish state ( back written to make a fake history ) by Josiah's scribes , before he made a move to go north and claim Israel ( after it had been weakened by invasion for punishment due to rebellion , and then retreat of Assyrians ) as rightful as it was being claimed now as part of the old Unified Kingdom . The plan did not work , on the ground, though - for him . He ran into Pharaoh who was on his way north to quell the Babylonians and tried to oppose him .... and got shot full of arrows . The story however became a great success , soon everyone believed it , resulting in the formation of Jewish monotheism ( ie Judaism ) Christianity and Islam and was considered a valid source of world history up to the 1880s ... and still for some today , fully, or in subtle ways not many are aware of in themselves . ... to me, it seems the biggest con job in history !

Abraham was from Sumer. The Jewish Book of Genesis contains a cut down version of the Sumerian account. In the Sumerian account you can read why god refers to itself as "we" The earliest known manuscript version of the OT is newer than the oldest manuscript version of the NT. In the Middle Ages there was a major industry in discovering ancient writings, translating them, and losing the original. Fortunately the Renaissance Man/Woman was of such a spiritual caliber that the inventions were often worthy of the alleged author Read Anatoly Fomenko for a statistical analysis showing which histories are invented from which realities. https://www.amazon.com.au/stores/author/B0032J096G Free versions: https://archive.org/search?query=anatoly+fomenko&and[]=mediatype%3A"texts" > who are the children of man and the children of god? In the Sumerian account, the aliens bred the human slaves from their own genetics crossed with a hominoid already on the planet. The humans turned out to be noisy and hard to manage, so the Sumerian aliens bred an upgraded human with more alien genetics to control the slaves. The upgraded humans are traditionally known as royalty - directly descended from the gods. There has been much interbreeding since then, so royal blood may not mean much now. Details of the genetic failures can be found in the Sumerian accounts. The hard work shows in the Jewish Genesis where every time the god makes something, he looks at it and sees that/if it is good Perhaps 12 other alien groups have had a go at breeding humans more suited to their agendas. WW2 was the latest macro attempt. These days the processes are nano-scale