Kunlun follow up poll

[soundhunter]

So sorry to go on off topic

 

Still just a newb readiong with fascination. I do think most people can't handle power without being tempted to practise evil, same with people who amass great wealth. I personally don't want any power, I'd prefer wisdom. All these people gaining power too quickly are having to face some demons and problems sounds reasonable to me. And Max being a bit shady sometimes about it all, well i don't know him, but if he's got power and he's making money off of this stuff quickly and getting as many students as he can and selling books etc, well, there's some room for corruption no matter how wholesome his original intent was.

 

I also disagree that becoming conscious, waking up, living with reality has to suck. Watching

repeatedly, I can't see suckage anywhere in his contagious giggles. K, back to lurking now, since you guys all know so much more than me anyways

[Yoda]

My take on AugustLeo is that his mindset is like that of being in the Marines where it is 100% expected that there will be some *highly* uncomfortable experiences and whining about these problems is lame and counterproductive as there's no way around them but through them regardless of the path one takes.

 

Since I'm not in the Winpro/AugustLeo camp, I have no insights or comments about their experiences.

 

I'm just bringing this up from the perspective of the average practitioner who isn't the next Yogi of the century and needs to keep it together in front of the kids and all that.

 

Does Kunlun bring up the average joe's inner demons too quickly as simple as that? Or does the Kunlun lineage carry a virus?

 

After a long time considering the issue personally and getting backstage glimpses in over a dozen practitioner's lives I have come to the conclusion that there is room for reasonable disagreement on this topic.

 

As such, deserves discussion.

 

Yoda

[topflight]

Max said that he does not do the burning palm on women as it can bring up bad memories of abuse by men. He probably would not have time to deal with these issues during a break at a seminar.

 

I have been practicing Kunlun for a year now - first from the original book and then after a seminar. I have had issues with mixing with other practices and not doing red phoenix correctly. However I have been able to correct those by slowing down, stopping, or changing my practice based on my intuition and what I have read here and on other forums. I figured out early on that my practice was my responsibility. I don't know if Max leaving us to discover and solve for ourselves was by design or default. I have had nothing but good come of my practice over the past year. My relationships are better and I feel calmer and more in control. I had some of the letting go experiences early on but they calmed down over time. Overall it has been a positive experience and has helped me along my path.

 

I have never gotten any bad vibes from Max and have only seen compassion from him in person. I do think that he got very tired of all of the drama over Kunlun which is one of the reasons he is retiring from the city seminar format. That being said, I think he could have been a much more effective teacher by being more available to answer questions and concerns. The lack of in depth information is what has driven much of this speculation and drama.

 

This thread has been great and I have gotten some real information from it.

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[Aetherous]

My take on AugustLeo is that...

 

Yoda, your take is much more favorable than mine is. I will put what I've been thinking for quite a few months out there...

 

I don't like the changes I've seen in his character and attitude. His change in demeanor is one of the main reasons why I question whether the practice is beneficial or not.

 

...I can say this publicly because he let me know in a PM quite a while ago that we weren't "friends". So what have I got to lose!

 

Does Kunlun bring up the average joe's inner demons too quickly as simply as that? Or does the Kunlun lineage carry a virus?

 

After a long time considering the issue personally and getting backstage glimpses in over a dozen practitioner's lives I have come to the conclusion that there is room for reasonable disagreement on this topic.

 

Agreed.

[gendao]

I don't think I suggested that he uses it to seduce women...as a demonstration tool maybe yes. I was asking about the energy involved that was used....whether it was different from a KL transmission.

Agreed, I was just making a general point.

 

And I don't know exactly what energy it is either, but I have inadvertantly done it to someone else myself - with absolutely no sexual (or any) intent at all. Was just playing and working with the energy...and it produced a totally unplanned effect.

 

But to me, these "stupid human tricks" are fun crowd-pleasers and I enjoy watching them. Although, I now find stuff like a persona more cleared of egoic attachments or healing ability more impressive on another level.

 

For example, at this past Austin seminar, a tall, lanky guy had trouble walking with a cane. Max spent probably around 20-30 minutes healing him...and the next day the same guy came in SANS cane and with a spring in his step. Not as flashy as a writhing orgasm, but to me far more impressive to me.

 

Anyhow, I commend your courageous feedback, and I find all feedback useful.

Edited April 11, 2009 by vortex

[fiveelementtao]

Knowledge and Power are not worth a damn without Wisdom.

Amen...

[fiveelementtao]

Does Kunlun bring up the average joe's inner demons too quickly as simply as that? Or does the Kunlun lineage carry a virus?

 

This is a great question... I think it is worthwhile to back up and define what we mean by lineage in this instance.

 

KL came from two sources.

The Shang Ch'ing arts and Jenny lamb.

 

I am in Max's Shang Ch'ing lineage and I have NEVER been visited by any unfriendlies. I had one encounter about 15 years ago (long before Max) where during meditation, I had an OBE and there was a woman in my room who spoke my name and the power in her voice scared me and I woke up and chased her out. She never came back. I wish I hadn't freaked out, I have no idea if she was there to help me or what. But, she has never come back. I've asked her to and still a no-show.

Around the same time, I had a dream, (more like a memory that I assumed was a dream) where an alien (the big eyed kind) was peering around my bedroom door while I was sitting up in bed as though to say, "Who is this new Spirit Fighter?" I definitely got the vibe that it was just responding to the vibe from the practices and wanted to see where it was coming from. Just curiosity. Never came back. I have had dreams where I was taught by Sifu (the grandmaster). He was always friendly and helpful. Powerful, wierd and mind-blowing dreams, but never fearful. I accidently chased him away in a dream also, and he has not come back. In my experience, any of the Shang Ch'ing visitations have always been very respectful and never pushed my boundaries.

 

I have never heard any students of Jenny's report any negative entities or viruses attacking them.

 

So, the question is: Is it the practices? I think no. Is it the lineage? (Shang Ch'ing or Lamb) I think no.

Is it Max and/or OUR personal psyches responding to Max?

 

What does this say about the teacher student relationship when it comes to powerful spiritual practices?

Lets' assume just for argument's sake that it IS Max projecting his stuff onto us, (I'm nnot saying it is one way or the other) But, If that is the case, I think we STILL have the power (Nay, the responsiblity) to reject what we don't want and protect ourselves and still keep the practice (If we choose). What is more important to each of us? The practice or the teacher? I believe we can isolate the practices from the teacher, but that means we need to take responsibility ourselves for what we allow into our psyches... In essence, we need to become our own teachers...

I personally never bought into the whole lineage thing. Not that I don't accept that there is a lineage, just that, I never felt the need to have spiritual entities guide my practice. Sometimes, in KL, I got the feeling that some people were using the lineage aspect and the spiritual experiences and visitations in an escapist way.

 

Like others, I had one experience with Max where he performed one of his "tricks" on me. I allowed it for a time, but after a couple of seconds, I also said "no." I was in complete control. After that, he didn't ask to try anything on me. I was only interested in the practices, not Max. I enjoyed the show, but it was never about him for me, it was about the practices.

 

So, is it the practice, the lineage or just our psychic cooperation with Max or our psychological projections of Max? If it is the latter, then, that indicates to me that the practices are OK, but we either need to follow a teacher whom we feel safe with OR, separate ourselves from the psyche of the teacher.

 

A fellow taoist friend of mine once told me, "When you ask for help from the immortals, always be sure that you say 'I ask for help from any immortals who are meant to work with me' because not all spirits know what they're doing or have our best interest at heart."

So, I always say "Who are sent by my highest self to guide me." It seems to me that many in KL just allowed any old spirit to show up and do whatever they want without first setting the spiritual boundaries.

Edited April 12, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Taomeow]

I really dont think what you said, Taomeow, about power and it's decision to control itself, has a universal applicability.

 

You may have found that out in relation to the specific power of a specific thing.

 

Yes, DNA-based life in the universe, that's the one specific thing I was talking about. That's the only kind of universal applicability I found.

 

DNA-based life in the universe includes all humans (alive and dead and not born yet), all animals (current and extinct), all plants (ditto), all bacteria, all aliens (sic), gods, demons, and engineered semiartificial entities like androids and GM monsters. Oh, and all spirits too, since DNA is the Mother Spirit of it all.

 

Indeed, it's nowhere near more universal than that.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Taomeow

[fiveelementtao]

Hey Yoda,

did you PM me a couple days back? Somebody PMed me and I lost it. Was that you?

[Starjumper]

Yes good to hear from you SJ, hope you have been having fun. (and witch too)

 

We just need Spirit Ape / WYG and the gang is all here

 

Thanks, Mal, I've been having some good times, not being on forums is usually a good time.

 

I returned, stupidly, because I got an email notification that I had a PM. I switched that option so it won't happen again. Hopefully, if I, and most of you, are lucky, the little wimp, Sean, will ban me permanently.

[sahaj]

I have a master now, so I am restricted. No more shenanigans!

 

too bad

[Starjumper]

Before I get banned, I want to provide this link to a thread at the Tea House which reflects on the subject of this here thread, with specific details on the techniques used to cause possession by evil spirits:

 

http://linwebsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2013

 

It doesn't say who it's about, but many of you will recognize it. I know the writer and he told me it's mostly about the fake Taoist, the freak, Max, and his teachings (practice Y). Practice X is about a fake Shaolin master who is similar.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Starjumper7

[Yoda]

5ET, not from me.

 

Starjumper, I felt badly for my out-of-hand dismissal of your worm thread so invited you to look at this thread... sorry for plugging you in again!!! Sean isn't around much but if you request to be banned on a PM I'm sure he can hook you up if you want to enjoy the great outdoors more. Hope your construction project is going well.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[fiveelementtao]

However I have been able to correct those by slowing down, stopping, or changing my practice based on my intuition and what I have read here and on other forums. I figured out early on that my practice was my responsibility.

 

Funny thing... I left the forum and guess what movie was on TV?

 

9Dl5zqdzhY4&feature

 

This thread has inspired me to continue with my practices but to try and "remember" slowly, in safe, digestable stages...

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[Trunk]

As far as over-involvement in the Naga lineage (for those it was a problem), it seems to me that preventative and exit is just a little basic education on keeping an altar and aligning with whatever heavenly help suits you.

[Starjumper]

Starjumper, I felt badly for my out-of-hand dismissal of your worm thread so invited you to look at this thread... sorry for plugging you in again!!! Sean isn't around much but if you request to be banned on a PM I'm sure he can hook you up if you want to enjoy the great outdoors more. Hope your construction project is going well.

Don't worry about it man, I've always felt you were a good person and you did no wrong, everything works out for the best, I guess. I just hope you didn't suffer too much harm, and recommend that if you (or anyone else) can, find a Taoist master who can serve as an exorcist to at least get checked out. Perhaps Mak Tin Si is the best one known here. Don't go to any moron who calls himself an exorcist and then tells you that demon possession is only in people's imagination.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Starjumper7

[Yoda]

As far as over-involvement in the Naga lineage (for those it was a problem), it seems to me that preventative and exit is just a little basic education on keeping an altar and aligning with whatever heavenly help suits you.

 

Get thee to a nunery!!!

[Starjumper]

Edited April 11, 2009 by Starjumper7

[Guest winpro07]

Yoda, how many respondent have answered your poll?

[Yoda]

Winpro,

 

It looks like 49 have responded.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Mal]

[Spirit Ape]

How many live in the now let alone think they doing a powerful Qi Kung?

 

[Trunk]

Get thee to a nunnery!!!

Yeah, I know, "geek squad".