How to properly thank a person

[zanshin]

Can we do better than a thank you? I have been trying to look for instances where I can give back twice.

[Prince...]

First of all, the Bible is not the word of God (and neither is Koran, or any other book). Secondly, Matthew 6:3-4 says absolutely NOTHING about shouting your gratitude to the world.

 

I gave you clear reasons explaining why thanking people publicly for something they've done for you privately is bad. Do not attempt to address reason with dogma. Reason shall be addressed only with reason.

 

Wow... well, I may not have the ability to think and all, but at least I know how to thank people when they do something nice for me. I will admit that I did not take the time to read your response. I have better things to do than read an essay on something I don't want to know. You started the topic, man up and accept the criticism.

 

I swear man, some of y'all need to stop sitting on your zafus and try living in the real world. If you're so worried about getting a big ego when people thank you, then go live an a cave or something. Don't be so worried about what other people do and how it will affect you. Here is a saying for you,"What other people eat doesn't make you shit."

 

I'm in the process of becoming an ordained minister. Being thanked in public is a part of my life. It happens. It's up to me to decide if I'm going to let it affect my ego.

 

Oh, I know I visited you everyday in the hospital when you were sick with cancer, no don't stand up in church and thank me when you give your testimony, though; thank me in private. I wouldn't want someone else to hear you were struggling that could be going through the same situation because that never happens.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Prince...

[farmerjoe]

I understand, and such sweet intention is generally commendable. But are you familiar with the concept of flattery? Flattery can be defined simply as "excessive praise". Flattery is a poison for spiritual development. Flattery hurts the person you flatter more than yourself. It's a cruel thing to do to someone.

 

There is truth here, all too easy for this to become another obstacle. I seem to recall too a private pm going public in a recent topic that may have hurt a friendship recently, so this all just seems like good etiquette to me. Joe.

[baloneyx]

thank you all

[Apech]

thank you all

 

 

Cheers. Your welcome.

[Sunya]

i'm not trying to get into any personal internet altercations, but goldheavydude.. you're not doing too well here. you write a lot,... a lot.. of nothing really, no substance, and attacking members left and right. you're very confrontational, know it all, arrogant, personality won't get too far here, and with people in general. i kn ow because I can be like that too. expect i try to shorten my words because most people won't read an essay saying one sentence.

 

whats your purpose here? to set us straight? to show us what is right and what is wrong? whos good and whos bad? is that your purpose? are you sure you have the wisdom for that and the skillful means?

 

i'm just confused as to what you want from this community. to learn? or just an ego boost?

[Ryan T.]

Ok, I was worried that not everyone understood the problem. I guess I have to explain what I think the problem is when the scope of gratitude expression exceeds the scope of that which you are grateful for.

 

The problem arises because of how we currently build reputation within conventional reality. When people are well spoken of, they rise in reputation. So if someone is praised once, then again, and then again, eventually that person gains some stature.

 

I would like this "gain" in stature to be fair, which means it needs to be reasonably transparent. So for example, if someone is thanked for vague or abstract reasons over and over there is a very real possibility that this person will gain in stature for dubious reasons because the reasons are not available for inspection. This allows people who are inappropriate for those roles to assume authoritative roles in society.

 

This problem can be alleviated by disclosing in very precise terms what it is you are thanking someone for. This is not an ideal practice, because this allows an exchange of a private benefit for a public benefit. So to use your example, when someone recommends you, that's a private benefit to you, but when you thank the recommender in public, that's a public benefit to them. Exchanging a private benefit for a public one is a kind of unfair upgrade of benefit. So for example, if I scratch someone's back, and then this person goes around saying I am a great person who will do anything to help anyone, that's inappropriate, because the aura I get from such praise is not commensurate with my action.

 

Is this clear now?

 

Further, while feeling grateful is a wonderful thing, thanking people is generally bad no matter what. Why is that? That's because when you thank someone, you are very likely inflating that person's ego whether you mean to or not (unless the person you are thanking is a saintly person who has the spiritual wisdom to disregard your thanks and ignore them). It takes a tremendous amount of work to become immune to thanks.

 

It's possible to be kind and supportive of a person, to be friendly and helpful, without ever thanking the person explicitly. I don't include simple cultural "thank you"s like what you would say to someone who holds the door for you. I find those particular kinds of thanks to be harmless.

 

If you must thank someone, doing so in private is the best option because it has the least chance to inflate the ego.

 

What seems clear is that you have it all figured out for everybody else how and what we should do.

 

This whole thing seems to be based on your opinions and your ideas of what is correct. Which, I would think being on a "Taoist" forum, you would know is not necessarily what the path/way of others is to be. Your "logic" that by explaining your opinions somehow create a truth is misguided and quite common. You may want to just sit back and watch and listen for a while.

 

I personally repay my debts as I see fit. If I need to thank someone I do it based on the impact of the gesture not on whether it was private or not. And certainly not because some guy on a forum has taken it upon himself to "enlighten" me to the "one true way" of repayment.

 

Relax a bit!

[Smile]

 

Bullshit. I was not dogmatic. I gave what I believe were very good reasons, well explained. I didn't just say "you should do this" and leave it at that. That would be dogmatic had I said it like that.

Thank you Sean for the Edit button

[Vajrasattva]

 

Not a single person who disagreed with me has demonstrated an ability to think in this thread.

 

 

Get your Head out of your Ass.

 

There is not THINK to when you deal with the Heart. This whole thing started cause you have a chip on shoulder from something in your PAST an how you lost your "Faith" in man somehow and you tagged it on me.

 

My student was from their heart saying thank you and you shot them down as if an elitest on what is and what isn't.

 

The one thing that IS is that you have not and do not come from your HEART in any level or form on this forum.

 

I may post a SMILE face only but if you would get your head out of your ass and had any ability what so over to feel chi you would find there is more there in the UNWRITTEN than what is there in the written. Few here pick up on it and Smile : ) that is whats its about. Not Elitest Horse crap. What exactly have you done to HELP anyone here? Especially with your Thank you Police Doctrine?

 

So I am going to Thank you again and sugest you get your head out of your Ass.

 

 

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[rex]

Thank you for this thread - it has exposed a disquietening subtle visciousness in the community.

[Creation]

Not a single person who disagreed with me has demonstrated an ability to think in this thread.

My dear Taobums brothers and sisters,

 

As one of the instigators of the present thread, please hearken to me. Hopefully this will be my final post on the matter.

 

If a person so clearly displays that he has no respect for others and cannot see that he is repeatedly doing exactly what he criticizes everyone else for doing, then engaging in dialogue with such a person is futile. I could say a lot more on the matter, but I think plenty has already been said. "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."

 

It bears repeating: "Wisdom is proved right by her actions."

 

Love,

Tyler

[Wayfarer64]

thanks, but no thanks...

 

I grant you the grace to help me...

I grant you the will to better me...

I grant you the means to enrich me...

I do not grant you the wisdom to show me how to thank you...

[Vajrasattva]

FJlxipQoI30

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Maybe aside from this "hot" topic here, I would like to contribute abit with some knowledge of how to "thanks someone" in taoism.

 

As a Taoism master, we always recieve "red pockets" from people for thank you. But many people would ask "why it have to be in that pocket?"

 

Red pocket was invented long time ago way back in history. There was a story long time ago when people go to war, their parents will give them a red pocket (plain red evelope) with money in it. This means to bless the person good luck and more power in war so they can come back home safe. When they are back, they can use the money and return the parents with a loving dinner in return!

 

Why money, why not anything else?

 

Money is something that is touched by MANY people. In China, coins are even more powerful (I am talking about ancient coins in the old days they dig up now.) Money is circulated around and given to many many people all the time, so everybody touches it and it have stored or even absorb energy of many things, including nature, people, animals, air, gas, lights, sound, etc,. The longer history the money is, the more power and energy it have in it.

 

Of course the energy can be clean or dirty. So we use a RED evelope to seal it up. When it is sealed in red, the color red will sealed up any type of energy inside the evelope and when it is totally sealed up, the dirty things will be dissolved. So your money turns into a "positive energy" bundle into a pocket.

 

Now when you give others this as a gift, you are giving them positive energy which add a boost to their energy field. Which also means you are giving them a luck enhancing gift!

 

To your Tin-Si ,you are giving the red pocket in return for anything Tin si do for you because you are getting help with energy, so you return with energy. Karma reduction is different. If you do something and want to reduce the karma, then you do require to give tin-si the red pocket AND also do the karma reduction ceremony to draw out the negative karma energy out of your body. Money cannot just cancel out your bad karma just like that.

 

If you give other things, it is not as powerful and as meaningful. As taoism grows in history, this red pocket method was also sealed into most lineage as a powerful tool, so it automatically work as a taoism tool too. If a "taoist" give a red pocket, it means much more than anything!

 

You will also see we give you red pockets with FU inside too. That's even more powerful!

 

Sometimes money's amount is also calculated to cancel out a specific amount of karma by using the numbers's energy (refer to the energy numbers of the big dipper, this can be calculated, once you understand how numbers related to astronomy, you will know how this work)

 

After all, we also thanks people or greet people with a saying of "Mo Leung Tin Juen" 無量天尊 by closing your palms infront of your chest like a prayer position. This means blessings to you from the infinite of deities in taoism. Just like people saying "god bless you" in the west. We say this in Taoism.

 

Mak Tin Si

 

www.daoismworld.com --> another taoism forum

[goldisheavy]

What exactly have you done to HELP anyone here?

 

I don't know if I have done anything to help, but if you ask me what have I done to attempt to help, then I can answer that.

 

My primary focus is on the core beliefs and the mindset of a person, and the influence these have on one's life. So I like to discuss the formation and the dissolution of core beliefs, their effects on experience, how to become aware of the presence of core beliefs in your life, and so forth.

 

In order to accomplish this I promote a primary virtue of contemplation, or reflectiveness, as opposed to say "doing", like moving energy or meditating, which is a subtle form of doing. I do recognize pragmatic and ornamental usefulness of doing and I am not dogmatically against doing at all. Doing is wonderful, but reflection is supreme.

 

My secondary focus is on the quality and rigor of thinking. I pay attention to cogency. So if I notice someone posting something that simply makes no sense, I make sure to point it out, if I believe it is especially grievous/harmful. Many of you here do not understand the power of reason. Many of you believe that reason is related solely to what some of you call "conceptual mind" and is responsible for blocking spiritual perception. Nothing could be further from the truth. Reason is one whole with that which is beyond reason. It's not something that blocks anything, but it is one of the two arms of the ultimate mind. The other arm is "beyond reason". It is one whole. So I like to take any available opportunity to point it out.

 

My third focus is on healing and health. So I've shared my own experience with healing.

 

I also don't like physical brutality and I am interested in harmony. I don't think you can harmonize with people who believe in physical brutality as a solution to problems, for example people who believe in brutal punishments as a way to hold society "together". I believe brutality goes against the celestial harmony of Tao in the relative sense, while in an ultimate sense, of course Tao embraces everything.

 

Especially with your Thank you Police Doctrine?

 

Well, I posted a detailed, well reasoned explanation, didn't I? I haven't seen any of those reasons addressed. Instead I am being told to ignore reason and follow heart, as if heart is anti-reason or has nothing to do with reason! That's completely wrong.

 

If you want to abandon reason as a harmonizing medium (which is what it is!), then you choose force and raw unstructured influence as your option. Be careful if that's what you choose, because I am the strongest of any of you here, and I'd hate to compete with any of you. If you want to put reason down and enter into a contest of will, you will lose, and you'll create nothing but pain while you are losing.

 

Reason is what leads people to peace. Reason is associated with reflectiveness and presence and not with doing. Force, or raw influence is associated with doing.

Edited March 5, 2009 by goldisheavy

[thelerner]

I find one persons 'reason' is another persons crap. To me thats the problem here. One person making a conclusion and giving there reasons (which they consider impeccable), the other person saying that's crap. It reverses and repeats.

 

Thats where the heart comes in. The tolerance, going beyond reason into acceptance.

 

Maybe harmony is seeing someone on a different path, waving and yelling 'good luck w/ that' and maybe calling out some advice on pitfalls along the way.

 

It comes off heavy handed but do we all see Golds point? Too much praise leading to bloated ego. It can also lead to clickishness. I don't agree with his solution, but his point is valid.

 

Michael

[goldisheavy]

I find one persons 'reason' is another persons crap.

 

I disagree. I think reason is universal. Opinions can differ, but there is common ground where all can meet if they value reason. Once the person values reason, the possibility for a discussion has been opened.

 

To me thats the problem here. One person making a conclusion and giving there reasons (which they consider impeccable), the other person saying that's crap. It reverses and repeats.

 

Let me explain how a reasonable person operates. First, all conclusions are tentative until better or simply different reasons arrive on the scene. When a reasonable person makes some arguments for something, they fully expect REASONED dissent. That means that it's OK if you disagree, but you have to explain why in a manner that's more nuanced and more sophisticated than just saying "whatever you said is crap" or "Here's a one-liner that's irrelevant to the discussion from some book".

 

As a reasonable person I am glad to change my opinion upon hearing a good argument. I do not change my opinion because I get told to "take my head out of my ass". For example, let's say I don't like certain extreme Koranic verses. I make an argument for why I don't like them. I don't say, "Muslims, gets your heads out of your asses and stop fucking donkeys". I don't say that. At least not unless I am angry and I don't get angry that often. Imagine if instead of what I wrote to "Creation" about thanking people I just told him "you're full of shit, get your head out of your ass" and just left it at that? Would that be a better solution?

 

Of course most of you prefer not to be criticized EVER, EVER, not for any reason. I don't know to what extent this is true, but it seems true at least somewhat. I don't want to point any fingers to any specific people anymore, but let all of you reflect on this.

 

As for me, I welcome criticism unlike many of you here. However, if you want to criticize me, don't try to act like a monkey and fling shit at me. Instead, make a reasoned point and discuss things with me in a civil manner. You'll be surprised what can happen if you do that.

 

Thats where the heart comes in. The tolerance, going beyond reason into acceptance.

 

Well, why don't you tolerate criticism then? How do you explain that? Do you lack heart? Why must you always have harmony? Are you addicted to it? Perhaps you need more tolerance?

 

Maybe harmony is seeing someone on a different path, waving and yelling 'good luck w/ that' and maybe calling out some advice on pitfalls along the way.

 

Ok, so how many of you wave "good luck with that" to me? Do you eat your own medicine? Are you self-consistent? It seems like a lot of people here are hypocrites. You want others to tolerate you but you don't want to tolerate anyone else.

 

It comes off heavy handed but do we all see Golds point? Too much praise leading to bloated ego. It can also lead to clickishness. I don't agree with his solution, but his point is valid.

 

Finally. This is the only thing you said that was actually productive and on topic. So what is your solution?

Edited March 6, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

[goldisheavy]

Edited March 6, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

I don't use force. I ask and give reasons why I ask that, unless I believe there is an implicit agreement. If I feel there is no implicit agreement, I will definitely come up with the reasons. But even after I present my reasons, I only ASK.

 

Cool, my miss read then. Possibly due to me reading the "other" thread and then this one. I read you 1st post as (to use my pray example) This is the only way to Pray and if you do it differently you are wrong.

 

If you re read my reply it basically said. Do whatever you "feel" is the right thing.

 

The joys of the net discussions

[goldisheavy]

It all comes down to this... I don't like to be bullied and I don't want to bully anyone either (HONEST!). But at the same time, I do like to be touched and I like to touch people. I don't want to be distantly formal and far away. I want to be a little messy with people, at least some times. I want to play. I don't want to just stay in my room and read like a "good boy", if you know what I mean. I want to play and during playing I may push you, and I expect you to push me, but there is a reasonable limit to this.

 

From my point of view, I am completely satisfied with our dialogue on this subject. I hope everyone else feels the same.

[Mal]

I recon we played well too. Thanks

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi Mal,

 

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome. I have been quite busy building that http://www.daoismworld.com forum. So things are quite good, I have been getting something done finally in the past few weeks. Wish you are all well too!

 

I am now back to share some good ones that I will pick from the other side, so it won't be too flooding for the people who are here. On the other side, if people like to read more, they are alwas welcome to visit our forum at http://www.daoismworld.com for more posts readings of course!

 

Thanks again for your welcome!

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited March 6, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Yes, CNY is over, but we are still going to talk about this red pocket thing again.

 

Just a tips for all westerners who do not know about the tradition of using red pockets. First, we must have to learn that red pockets are ALWAYS to be brand new. You cannot use a USED red pocket or re-use any red pockets to place money inside and give it back to other people. This way is rude, plus it make no sense.

 

The main purpose of the red pocket is to seal and store the energy inside the pocket so that it can dissolve all the negative and bad energy from the money and turn it into a "compact pure positive energy bundle" as a gift to people. Therefore, if you use an old used red pocket, the pocket cannot serve the purpose anyway. If the red pocket is teared or broken, then it is even worst.

 

So, when you are going to give out red pockets, avoid broken or tear bills, avoid broken or teared red pockets and avoid RE-USE pockets!!! Always use a new one!

 

You can write things on the back such as "to.. mr.XXX.." in black. Do not write too much!

 

Mak Tin Si

[thelerner]

From my point of view, I am completely satisfied with our dialogue on this subject. I hope everyone else feels the same.

 

From my point of view you condescend, dismiss and insult people who have different views from you. Not the best way to learn.

 

Michael