Kunlun/Yogani

[fiveelementtao]

Now for the term Shakti. Shakti means Feminine power. All female deities are Shakti. There is no such thing as male shakti. Indian tantric energetic traditions focus highly on the power of Shakti. Why? Becuase they are focused on burning through Karma. Shakti is seen as the All powerful force because she is Karma, she is weight, gravity. She is seen as the power of creation. Since Shakti is the force which defines creation, it is the power of limitation. The person who can master this power can master creation itself. But Shakti has a Master. That master is Shiva. Shiva is the heavenly force. The force that guides the power of creation. Shakti worshippers seek to unify their limitation with limitless Shiva. But there is a state beyond Shakti and Shiva. There is what we call Wuji. Unified potential of the Infinite. I could go on and on and on, but this is Taoist forum, not a hindu forum.

 

My point is that Kundalini can be the Ultimate power. But if it is, then that is because it is limitation and karma that you worship. It is a valid path and will lead to ultimate liberation. But it is also important to understand what these terms mean. and for me, Hindu paths do not correspond with goals and methods of taoism.

For me, the Universe is a multifaceted hologram. You can look through one facet in the diamond and see everything else through it and believe you understand all. But, if pull the diamond away from your eye and look through another facet, you will see everything again but through a different view point.

 

Kundalini is one facet, one gate to the Infinite. But there are other facets to look through. For me, Kundalini and Karma are one facet. Tao is another. They have similarities, sure. but they go about the process of unification with the divine in a different way.

OK, Sorry for the three page diatribe. I am done now... (let's hope)

[Aetherous]

[mYTHmAKER]

After a while of doing energy practises it came to my attention that I had a pink/red stripe that had appeared on my body, in the place where the back bit of a G string would sit. ( yes, my BUM CRACK...).

 

It has two distinct phases to it. The higher part of it is a clearer brighter red than the darker lower part of it. It looks like a burn, I guess. A red streak.

 

When I went to meet Max Kunlun, it itched a lot. Which was very disconcerting. And itchy.

 

That is my contribution to this discussion, really. I dont have a cerebral belief about this issue. I simply dont know and am not interested in theorising.

 

I do know, thankfully, that the bum crack phenomenon is not uncommon in kundalini circles. I dont know how common it is amongst taoists, they dont mention their bums much.

 

If at all.

 

I had a very burning spine for a long time, btw. (In case anyone was wondering.)

 

On a mundane level. I always check my earthbound affinities. Did you try changing your detergent, your body soap, your underwear - one without a g string. Ya never know.

One other possibility - maybe you're allergic to Max

[Jedi777]

Now for the term Shakti. Shakti means Feminine power. All female deities are Shakti. There is no such thing as male shakti. Indian tantric energetic traditions focus highly on the power of Shakti. Why? Becuase they are focused on burning through Karma. Shakti is seen as the All powerful force because she is Karma, she is weight, gravity. She is seen as the power of creation. Since Shakti is the force which defines creation, it is the power of limitation. The person who can master this power can master creation itself. But Shakti has a Master. That master is Shiva. Shiva is the heavenly force. The force that guides the power of creation. Shakti worshippers seek to unify their limitation with limitless Shiva. But there is a state beyond Shakti and Shiva. There is what we call Wuji. Unified potential of the Infinite. I could go on and on and on, but this is Taoist forum, not a hindu forum.

 

My point is that Kundalini can be the Ultimate power. But if it is, then that is because it is limitation and karma that you worship. It is a valid path and will lead to ultimate liberation. But it is also important to understand what these terms mean. and for me, Hindu paths do not correspond with goals and methods of taoism.

For me, the Universe is a multifaceted hologram. You can look through one facet in the diamond and see everything else through it and believe you understand all. But, if pull the diamond away from your eye and look through another facet, you will see everything again but through a different view point.

 

Kundalini is one facet, one gate to the Infinite. But there are other facets to look through. For me, Kundalini and Karma are one facet. Tao is another. They have similarities, sure. but they go about the process of unification with the divine in a different way.

OK, Sorry for the three page diatribe. I am done now... (let's hope)

wow you are long winded LOL---I should of said that kundalini is one of the strongest energies of course The God Force is the highest---lost I could say but what is the point---Kundalini is the Mother

Peace

[fiveelementtao]

wow you are long winded LOL---I should of said that kundalini is one of the strongest energies of course The God Force is the highest---lost I could say but what is the point---Kundalini is the Mother

Peace

This long winded response wasn't only for you jedi. It was a culmination of this whole thread. Peace

[freeform]

I'm finding this thread fascinating. Thank you all for participating and sharing and creating a little bit of magic.

 

Trunk - so I finally checked out Mark Griffin... Why on earth didn't you tell us about him a long time ago!!? ( joking of course! - I'm just slow to catch on)

 

He certainly has some juice!! Just listening to his talk got me going.

 

Funnily enough the first talk I checked out was his talk on awakening kundalini. So apart from shaking and vibrating like a madman I gathered that there are indeed two 'sources' to kundalini - the tail bone and the crown!

 

The crown is a pool of emptiness and the tailbone is like pure potential. This really makes sense from my experience - Kunlun finally makes 'sense', the downwards flow makes sense - it all makes sense and nonsense

 

Sometimes I think I live on the wrong continent - if I lived in the US, I would see Mark Griffin at "the whim of a hat" (in the immortal words of your ex-president )

[三江源]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by 三江源

[Jedi777]

This long winded response wasn't only for you jedi. It was a culmination of this whole thread. Peace

oh I know that---its still long winded

[Aetherous]

Freeform,

 

The crown is a pool of emptiness and the tailbone is like pure potential.

 

Very nice.

[sean]

Sean,

 

To strip out some of the contentious terminology ...

 

Is it your view, regardless of terminology, that there are not various vast high-octane energies at all? That would seem to be one possible progression (though not necessarily) from the view that you posted on kundalini. Or is it that you think that there are such energies, but that kundalini just isn't one of them?

 

Me?

 

*looking over shoulder both ways*

 

 

Well, let me say first ... I have no clue. I do think terminology means or at least meant something specific within each tradition at one time. But traditions grow and change and blend and perhaps now more so than ever. So IMO at some point soon we're going to have to come up with you know, not to sound too technical, but new shit basically.

 

That said, here is my view in a nutshell since you asked.

 

I think out of the void there is vast primordial energy, whatever you want to call it. It moves and squiggles and squirms in varying densities and textures and vibrations and makes up the entire manifest universe.

 

So if you want, you can keep it simple I guess and leave it at that ... there is just energy, there is just what is, open up to it, love it, surrender unto it. Use your heart.

 

But on the other you can have some fun and be a spiritual nerd and start naming the hell out of stuff and debating about the names (seriously fun, not being patronizing). So within this endless infinite river of energy there are a shitload of distinctions the mind can make -- stars, trees, dirt, love, music, patacones, Costa Rican sunsets, this is jing, qi, shen, this is shiva and shakti, this is the holy spirit, this is the virgin Mary, this is Jesus Christ in my heart, this is an enraged demonic ancestor, this is alien moonbeams, this is ancient Egyptian transmission, this is kundalini, this is extraordinary energy, this is ordinary boring nothings on tv and I'm out of cold beer energy ...

 

I know this is kind of a wide angle lens answer and maybe not specifically what you were asking but hopefully it sort of stabs in the direction of a response.

 

What do you think?

 

Sean

[Trunk]

Trunk - so I finally checked out Mark Griffin...

- if I lived in the US, I would see Mark Griffin at "the whim of a hat" (in the immortal words of your ex-president )

I suggest that you consider a one month streaming membership into the HardLight sangha. Read the description of it carefully. Listen to more free recordings if you feel that you need to consider further before entering for a month. This guy is not just whistling Dixie. Extremely advanced, skilled, benevolent.

 

If you choose to participate for a month and listen to streaming live meetings, I suggest that you (mostly) act as if you're in the room. Sit still during their meditations, relax & walk around when they do, etc. Meetings start 7:30p Pacific time Thursday nights and last for several hours (length varies). Consider that depending upon sometimes late meetings and/or your own processing afterward that you won't want to have anything else planned for the rest of that evening.

 

For this style of Teaching~Studying, it is an important ritual to say, "I'm in for a month".

 

If you have serious physical maladies and/or psychological imbalances, I would advise caution.

 

Keith

 

 

~ later edit ~

As to my own time of participation in HardLight, as I consider it my heart swells and I get all misty - tears of gratitude, literally. From how you've responded, I think likely that you'll jump right in to great benefit. However, there is a line: I stop short of propelling recommendation - the decision should be %100 your own.

 

Hope I'm not being melodramatic.

Cheers.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Trunk

[rain]

What do you think?

 

Sean

 

 

heartfelt greetings from todays Oslo

 

 

Edited January 9, 2009 by rain

[shontonga]

Holy cow

(said in a state of complete reverence! to the recent photos )

 

 

 

amazing you two

[portcraig]

Here is a link to an article about kundalini by Robert Bruce. It was posted on his forum. I found it very infomative and helpful. Craig

 

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic...f=10&t=2602

[markern]

The Universal Tao instructor Dirk Al reached the first level of enlightenment in a budhist monastary doing budhist practices. He then lost it again as he reentered normal life. After doing Mantak Chias practices in the Dark room retreat he got back to exactly the same place. As to wether or not one does fundamentaly different things with the energies in the Tao and in Budhism Al said that what he did within the to systems was very similar but still slightly different.

[sean]

heartfelt greetings from todays Oslo

Wow. That is just how the sunsets in Costa Rica look. Boootiful.

 

Sean

[Starjumper]

Seattle sunset, unaltered photo

[Trunk]

Me?

*looking over shoulder both ways*

Wasn't implying that you were battlesome. Could be we had an e-nuance-loss.

Well, let me say first ... I have no clue.

Oh, there we go. Everyone builds knowledge (hopefully) based (mostly) on their experience. Nuttn' wrong w'dat. I've had experience putting nitro in my VW gas tank and it... took some getting-used-to.

patacones,

Had to look that one up. OMG!, yummmmm.

 

 

[Yoda]

omg... serious yum!! In Jamaica, they'd haul fish out of the ocean and straight into coconut oil. Sigh...

[.broken.]

I clearly arrived at this thread a little late...

 

Thought I would share the creator's view on this matter with you all. There is only one. One energy, one love, one divinity, one law.

 

Humanity has been seperated for a long time, but now due to increased transportation routes and increasing populations the various cultures and traditions are clashing, mixing and attempting to integrate. There are those who will fight for their encampment and keep themselves seperate from others. This is a previous evolution and, although it has its purpose, it is to be grown out of.

 

This thread is a clear example of such a clash.

 

The various 'energy' traditions and practices grew from the various corners of the Earth and all work with the one energy. Methods of moving, cultivating and applying this energy vary greatly. The written language that is used to describe certain experiential phenomena vary greatly too.

 

Now for some clarification. It all depends on the perspective of the individual as to how these things are described.

 

'Kundalini' is a phenomon described by many different yogis regarding the rising burning sensation that is caused by the energy arising from the base of the spine (arguably starting in the soles of the feet) and reaching out for the heavens. Yes, it can be described as a different type of energy because the feeling experienced by the individual is different in comparison to those feelings brought on by differing energy manipulation methods (avoiding the term cultivation here as energy can be experienced without cultivating it). And yes, these sensations are brought about by the releasing of karma, or if you prefer 'blockages'.

 

The only energy that exists originates from the creator. Not some bearded man on a cloud, but the primordial, that is, always was, and always shall be. It is outside of time and is the creator of time. Hence the use of the word 'creator'.

 

Karma is also something that has arisen as a range of different philosophies. I use the term karma because it is closest to the truth. 'Sin' is based on the same law. What causes 'sin' is also the cause of what some of you refer to here as a karmic backlog.

 

Christian's focused on sin and repentance; the Hindus - and other related schools - had varying philosophies regarding karma ranging from Bhakti (devotion) in order to surrender their ego, to actively doing good deeds in order to repair their previous 'wrong' doings, to effort filled energy work to remove the blockages; Christian influenced Shamans were called 'sin eaters' due to their healing practices (healing occurs through clearing karmic backlog). One thing is clear, although the approaches varied widely, the results were the same. It merely depended on the individual's karma as to how far they progressed.

 

All is good. Energetic blockages, karmic backlog and sin are the same thing through different eyes. How one choses to unravel spiritually to experience their 'truth' is entirely up to them. The true sages of old - those blessed with intellect, intuition and good energetcly developed bodies - were correct in thinking that balance is key. It takes longer to evolve if one concentrates on one aspect.

 

There were saints/sages/healers/shamans/mystics in all disciplines. One energy.

 

One love,

James

Edited January 10, 2009 by .broken.

[sean]

Oh, there we go. Everyone builds knowledge (hopefully) based (mostly) on their experience. Nuttn' wrong w'dat. I've had experience putting nitro in my VW gas tank and it... took some getting-used-to.

Well I am always having experiences ... often with very intense sensations (including with Mark Griffin who I sat with twice). What I meant by no clue is that I don't know enough about the long, varied history of energetic terms to say with any authority what kundalini is or is not. I only have my experience.

 

Here's another quote for the pile (emphasis mine):

 

Via Kurt Keutzer, Kundalini FAQ

 

What is the difference between prana and kundalini? What is the difference between qi (or chi) and kundalini?

 

First let us try to relate to concepts from the same tradition - prana and kundalini. Prana has been translated as the "vital breath'' and "bio-energetic motility''; it is associated with maintaining the functioning of the mind and body. Kundalini, in its form as prana-kundalini, is identical to prana ; however, Kundalini also has a manifestations as consciousness and a as a unifying cosmic energy. One could ascribe these same aspects to prana as well so past a certain point these become distinctions without differences.

 

From the subjective standpoint of an individual actually experiencing the awakening of kundalini I have found three completely different opinions:

 

The first opinion is that a pranic awakening is only a prelude to a full kundalini awakening. Tibetan yogins that I have encountered consider the activation of prana (Tibetan: rlung) as merely a prerequisite for the activation of kundalini (Tibetan: gTummo). What's attractive about this viewpoint is that it explains the difference between the experience of simply having pleasant sensations in the spine and the much more powerful experience of having a "freight-train''-like full kundalini experience.

 

The second opinion, espoused by Swami Shivom Tirth for example, is that prana and kundalini are absolutely equivalent and that it is not meaningful in any way to describe a difference between kundalini rising and prana rising. When posed with question as to how to distinguish between pleasant sensations that show some pranic-activity in the spine and the much more powerful experience Swami Shivom Tirth said that the difference is not in the nature of the activity but in the consciousness that observes it. If the consciousness that experiences the pranic activity is seated within the spine (or more correctly, the central channel, known as the sushumna), then the experience is felt much more powerfully.

 

The third opinion, espoused by the modern hatha yogin, Desikaran, is that pranic awakening is the true experience to be aimed for and kundalini is actually an obstruction. Desikaran sees the kundalini as a block in the central channel and thus the kundalini must be "killed'' to make way for the prana. This is the most unusual view of the three.

 

The Chinese concept of qi (or chi) can be safely identified with the Indian concept of prana.

 

If all this seems confusing - don't worry, you're in good company. My conclusion is that these are all different terminologies for dealing with a common set of experiences. Any one of these viewpoints is adequate for describing the full range of experiences. What is probably more relevant is to distinguish two different experiences which are often confused. In one an individual experiences some pleasant energizing electric energy running along the spine. This experience itself brings about a wide range of experiences and results in vitality and sensitivity. Another very distinct experience is the experience of kundalini entering the sushumna and rising up the spine. As soon as kundalini enters the sushumna this experience will completely overwhelm ordinary waking consciousness. From the moment that kundalini enters the sushumna there will no longer be a distrinction between the subjective consciousness which experiences and the object of experience. This experience much more profoundly transfigures consciousness.

 

 

Sean

[Pero]

For all the grief I gave to Mak Tin Si, I have to agree with him on one thing: There are alot of people in the west who dabble in taoism, hinduism, buddhism and throw them all together into one pot not realizing what each tradition means and is designed to do. As one gets deeper and deeper into these traditions, it becomes important to better understand the purpose and focus of each. And it may become necessary to make critical choices as to what one wants to focus on. Because each accomplishes different goals.

 

No kidding.

[Trunk]

Freeform's response inspired me to listen to some recording of MG (Mark Griffin, the Teacher at HardLight) on my ipod shuffle. *modern dharma* I'd forgotten how much high vibe comes through a recording. Sometimes it's just like listening to anyone, talking along. Other times, for sustained periods, Mark is clearly in altered states and I get a soak of very unusually pure energy. Unmistakable, clearly palpable, I get a really deep buzz.

 

Based on that, I think the streaming audio over a high speed line is an intriguing opportunity to sit with Mark during HardLight live meetings, while you're anywhere in the world. Especially since the formal meditation time is edited out of the recorded talks and obviously not from the live streaming audio. This style of Teaching~Studying is mostly about transmission. This is an opportunity to sit regularly with what would be, in the Tibetan tradition, a high end vajra master.

 

Ok. So, here's a list of links to HardLight mp3's that have "kundalini" or "shaktipad" in the titles. Kundalini is prominent in Mark's tradition and he has an impressive technical grasp (based on direct experience), and is well spoken. Enjoy.

Awakening Kundalini

What is Shaktipad?

Kundalini and the Subtle Body

 

There is one other talk, "Kundalini and the Power of Time", which is in 3 parts but there's a link problem and so I'll post that talk when the links are sorted out.

 

cheers,

Trunk

Edited January 12, 2009 by Trunk

[freeform]

Other times, for sustained periods, Mark is clearly in altered states and I get a soak of very unusually pure energy. Unmistakable, clearly palpable, I get a really deep buzz.

 

Completely agreed! I remembered why I didn't get into his stuff when you first recommended Mark years ago - I think I was a little overwhelmed and intimidated by the yogic language and references (which I didn't get at the time) on the website... I never even listened to a talk...

 

Now I don't even need to listen to his words - in fact placing my awareness in the spaces between the words provides an opening for the transmission.

 

I've checked out the possibility of joining the streamed sessions. The problem is that if it's at 7:30 pm pacific time (-8 GMT, right?) then it's 3:30 am my time - now if I wasn't working this would actually be perfect - there are no disruptions at that time of the night... but as it stands at the moment, I would be a very sleepy worker on friday...

 

(I might decide just to go for it though )

[Vajrasattva]

Its like this.....

 

When it happens you will know. And there is a a difference. : )