Starman returns

[mantis]

all i have to add to this thread is

 

who cares if he advertises?

 

[Starjumper]

Edited October 27, 2008 by Starjumper7

[h.uriahr]

[Xienkula1]

Hey even some Jews practice the good old folk magic/sorcery/influencing fate....red thread around your underwear anyone? A protective talisman? It exists in every tradition.

[Starjumper]

[h.uriahr]

Starjumper, you may want to reconsider defining yourself as a "sorcerer". here is the dictionary definition of sorcerer

 

Sorcerer: One who practices Sorcery. - Sorcery: the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining :

 

It comes across as somewhat ironic to me that you mercilessly judge Max as being sinister and evil and talk of him "poisoning" people and this "kunlun worm" acting like an energetic parasite, yet you classify yourself as a "sorcerer" and are actively seeking disciples of your own...

 

I'm not one to preemptively strike at others, but I have been reading you personally attack Max ( and by extension, his students) for many pages here, and so far, all of your attacks only seem to bring negative attention to you. You sound to me like you are competing with him. this type of competition for attention is not usually attributed to master wizards or sorcerers such as yourself.

 

In terms of energetic attacks, In my experience no one can poison another's energy without their permission (conscious or unconscious). You have alluded to wanting to avoid "Psychic attack" from others. A master sorcerer or wizard doesn't fear this.

 

It feels to me like you would like to have what you see Max as having (students who admire and respect him), so instead of being able to get it yourself, you attack the one whom you wish you could be like. I think in psychological circles, they call this "projection" All in all, based on what I've read (and felt) in your comments, It makes me want to ask... Has someone hurt you?...

 

If you are a psychiatrist or psychologist I think I'd get my money back from whatever school you got your degree from. You say you arent one to preemptively attack but you kill that statement by striking out at SJ. In regards to your experience...obviously you have none. I'm going to restate what you said ok but in a different way

In my experience no one can punch you in the face without their permission (conscious or unconscious). You have alluded to wanting to avoid "punches to the face" from others. A master fighter or practitioner doesnt fear this.

 

 

The same thing applies tp psychic attacks. If you arent strong enough to defend it, you get hurt. Even a badass like Chuck Liddell has his day

[Stigweard]

[Starjumper]

Dear Dragon who guards the way, thank you for your definition of worm. However I believe when it is said by someone referring to an internal condition like: "I've got a worm in me" it's got to mean something like a parasite. That's just the common (and unconscious) usage.

[mYTHmAKER]

Careful

Wizards and sorcerers can get burnt at the stake.

[Stigweard]

Dear Dragon who guards the way, thank you for your definition of worm. However I believe when it is said by someone referring to an internal condition like: "I've got a worm in me" it's got to mean something like a parasite. That's just the common (and unconscious) usage.

 

Careful friend, you are running the risk of slanting things to conform to your chosen perception. If I had said, "I have caught the Taiji bug", using the word 'bug' does not neccessarily imply a parasite even though the "common (and unconscious) usage" does imply as such.

 

Best to stick to the facts without unneccessary and/or fallacious reading between the lines.

[fiveelementtao]

If you are a psychiatrist or psychologist I think I'd get my money back from whatever school you got your degree from. You say you arent one to preemptively attack but you kill that statement by striking out at SJ. In regards to your experience...obviously you have none. I'm going to restate what you said ok but in a different way

In my experience no one can punch you in the face without their permission (conscious or unconscious). You have alluded to wanting to avoid "punches to the face" from others. A master fighter or practitioner doesnt fear this.

The same thing applies tp psychic attacks. If you arent strong enough to defend it, you get hurt. Even a badass like Chuck Liddell has his day

 

 

You make some good points, MPWay. and Stigweard, I now stand corrected on the etymilogical definition of sorcery. It is not my intention to personally attack SJumper. I'm not attacking his Tai Chi or Chi Kung or any of his training or lineage. I'm not even judging his ability to teach "sorcery".

What I should have said was I don't "usually" preemptively attack someone. But, I've been reading SJumper attack Max and his students mercilessly and without any substantiation page after page. If he had personally met Max or trained with him and had a personal experience, I would stay out of it, because then at least he would have an opinion based on some personal knowledge. So, I am simply sharing my reaction as I watch this. MPWay, If you are so offended by my observations on SJumper, and feel that I have unjustly attacked him, why then are you not as EQUALLY offended at his blatant smearing of Max and the kunluners?. You wasted no time in pouncing on me and personally attacking me for sharing my observations of SJumper. (which was considerably kinder than his judgements of Max.) I haven't searched the taobums for any responses from you but, have you done the same with him?

Chuck Lidell did certainly have his day, but he had to make the choice to step in that ring.

In regards to your experience...obviously you have none.

Since you have made up your mind about that... I guess I'll let you have the final word there.

[growant]

I guess it was me (haven't seen anyone else write it) that referred to feeling, after the transmission, as though there were 'a kun lun worm' inside me ferreting out all that was not me/unenlightened. I felt this acutely and powerfully after day 1 of the workshop, to a lesser degree on the second day, and virtually not at all since then. To tell you the truth, I kind of miss the feeling and have wondered where it went - I posted as much previously. I guess its possible that this feeling/transmission was a negative thing, although subjectively it didn't feel such. It felt good and powerful at the time, and I think I used the designation 'worm' because it seemed like it was ferreting out the parts inside of me that were not of the light. I don't think an earthworm is a parasite.

 

In short, I don't know.

[Xienkula1]

I don't think an earthworm is a parasite.

 

good point, neither are all round worms.

[fiveelementtao]

all i have to add to this thread is

 

who cares if he advertises?

 

 

Advertise all you want, I just find it... unproductive if the way one advertises is mainly through defaming another teacher without substantiation. Maybe he has advertised on other posts I haven't read. But, what I've read so far has looked like. "Max is evil. I'm a master sorcerer, train with me.."

[Starjumper]

Careful friend, you are running the risk of slanting things to conform to your chosen perception. If I had said, "I have caught the Taiji bug", using the word 'bug' does not neccessarily imply a parasite even though the "common (and unconscious) usage" does imply as such.

 

Best to stick to the facts without unneccessary and/or fallacious reading between the lines.

 

Good point, thank you for the correction.

 

I guess it was me (haven't seen anyone else write it) that referred to feeling, after the transmission, as though there were 'a kun lun worm' inside me ferreting out all that was not me/unenlightened. I felt this acutely and powerfully after day 1 of the workshop, to a lesser degree on the second day, and virtually not at all since then. To tell you the truth, I kind of miss the feeling and have wondered where it went - I posted as much previously. I guess its possible that this feeling/transmission was a negative thing, although subjectively it didn't feel such. It felt good and powerful at the time, and I think I used the designation 'worm' because it seemed like it was ferreting out the parts inside of me that were not of the light. I don't think an earthworm is a parasite.

 

In short, I don't know.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I was combining your post with Scott's, which stated there is something planted which stays in people and I thought you both were referring to the same thing. The sensitivity people have to things varies greatly. People who are very yin can have wild reactions to being given some extra chi while those who are very yang might not feel a thing.

[Mantra68]

Advertise all you want, I just find it... unproductive if the way one advertises is mainly through defaming another teacher without substantiation. Maybe he has advertised on other posts I haven't read. But, what I've read so far has looked like. "Max is evil. I'm a master sorcerer, train with me.."

Yup, he is just trying to make a positive thing into something negative for his own benefit.

 

He is like a guy who comes up to a group of people at a theater waving his arms and screaming at them to not go see a certain movie. He proceeds to explain why it is so horrible and what it will do to them if they watch it.

 

When they tell him that they have just seen for the third time and it was amazing, he still insists it is horrible. When they ask him if he has seen it he says, "Well, no, but I have seen the trailer and it is HORRIBLE. Don't see it anymore! Your life depends on it!......WORMS!!!"

 

They slowly back away shaking their heads.

 

 

SJ, why would you want to be that guy?

 

And who in their right mind would want to train with you?

 

Why can't you just talk about your thang and have that be good enough? Is it not good enough?

[Starjumper]

Advertise all you want, I just find it... unproductive if the way one advertises is mainly through defaming another teacher without substantiation. Maybe he has advertised on other posts I haven't read. But, what I've read so far has looked like. "Max is evil. I'm a master sorcerer, train with me.."

 

Max is also a sorcerer, clearly, and I think he's more powerful than I am. I'm advertising in a way, yes, but I don't want very many people to train with me, just a few, very few, and I'm in no hurry. It's a real catch 22 situation for me. i think this path is so great and want to share it with everyone and think everyone should do it BUT the reality of it is that we give away our own energy to aid the student and most of the practitioners will not teach at all because of that, they don't want to give their energy away, they want to keep it for themselves.

 

... and so this brings us to some information I have on transmissions and energy work, since people are clamoring for facts rather than opinions.

 

You make some good points, MPWay. and Stigweard, I now stand corrected on the etymilogical definition of sorcery. It is not my intention to personally attack SJumper. I'm not attacking his Tai Chi or Chi Kung or any of his training or lineage. I'm not even judging his ability to teach "sorcery".

What I should have said was I don't "usually" preemptively attack someone. But, I've been reading SJumper attack Max and his students mercilessly and without any substantiation page after page. If he had personally met Max or trained with him and had a personal experience, I would stay out of it, because then at least he would have an opinion based on some personal knowledge. So, I am simply sharing my reaction as I watch this. MPWay, If you are so offended by my observations on SJumper, and feel that I have unjustly attacked him, why then are you not as EQUALLY offended at his blatant smearing of Max and the kunluners?. You wasted no time in pouncing on me and personally attacking me for sharing my observations of SJumper. (which was considerably kinder than his judgements of Max.) I haven't searched the taobums for any responses from you but, have you done the same with him?

Chuck Lidell did certainly have his day, but he had to make the choice to step in that ring.

 

Fiveelement, some of your observations were very good. However you say my claims are unsubstantiated, but you know, there are other people who have taken kunlun from other teachers and they have information to share, and they have shared it with me, and I can now make some comparisons between teachers, I know many teachers and I have a feeling for what is right. I think there is something else though that makes me like Max, I like to write in a way that confuses some people and not others, so sue me. I'm complex, get over it. Maybe you're just upset because i wont tell you what Max said about his transmissions =)

 

Careful friend, you are running the risk of slanting things to conform to your chosen perception. If I had said, "I have caught the Taiji bug", using the word 'bug' does not neccessarily imply a parasite even though the "common (and unconscious) usage" does imply as such.

 

Best to stick to the facts without unneccessary and/or fallacious reading between the lines.

 

 

Waitaminute, waitaminute, you can say you have the tai chi bug, that's one thing, but what about "I caught the tai chi worm". People don't use worm in the same manner. Still, the point is mooting at me.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

I think we all owe Steve a deep show of gratitude for making us aware of the Kunlun worm that now permantently resides within those of us who have gotten the transmisison from Max.

 

*runs to refrigerator for more ice cream and coca cola to feed Kunlun worm*

[Xienkula1]

 

Waitaminute, waitaminute, you can say you have the tai chi bug, that's one thing, but what about "I caught the tai chi worm". People don't use worm in the same manner. Still, the point is mooting at me.

 

Bug in this context is slang for virus, a virus is an obligate intracellular parasite. It's the same parasitic relationship you were associating with worms, even though not all species of worms are parasitic, though every virus currently known by definition would be.

[SiliconValley]

*runs to refrigerator for more ice cream and coca cola to feed Kunlun worm*

 

I thought it was the burger and coke!

[fiveelementtao]

i think this path is so great and want to share it with everyone and think everyone should do it BUT the reality of it is that we give away our own energy to aid the student

 

I admire that selfless attitude... I am also a teacher, so I understand what you're saying here. It seems to me, though, that you may also be expending a great deal of energy with your attacks against Max. Why not save your energy for yourself and your students?

 

However you say my claims are unsubstantiated, but you know, there are other people who have taken kunlun from other teachers and they have information to share, and they have shared it with me, and I can now make some comparisons between teachers, I know many teachers and I have a feeling for what is right.

In court, this would be called "hearsay evidence" and would be inadmissable. But even so, that sounds to me like that is simply their opinion. And though everyone has a right to their own opinion, there are many (seemingly more) who have a very favorable opinion of Max.

I don't understand what you stand to personally gain if you were successful in "exposing" Max? For argument's sake, let's assume you are correct in your feelings about him... There have always been unscrupulous teachers and always will be. No one is ever taken advantage of by teachers without there being some conscious or unconscious agreement. As a Taoist and a teacher, you must know this. The dance of energy is a cooperative one, whether it be with the dark or the light. (if one were to make that kind of distinction). A true Taoist must take full responsibility for all the events in their lives whether pleasant or not. It seems you are encouraging people to view themselves as victims. You must know that this is not Tao. Tao teaches us that everything in our lives is our own creation.

 

I think there is something else though that makes me like Max, I like to write in a way that confuses some people and not others, so sue me. I'm complex, get over it.

 

Ahhh, so you are a "Coyote" teacher... Wonderful! You are very lucky and so is anyone who trains with you. The Coyote teacher will give the deepest understanding to his student. He may even seem "evil" to those he teaches... Then you, of all people, know that, ultimately, there is no such thing as "evil." All coyotes know that "evil" is simply a mask to expose the unconscious "darkness" in us all. I find it interesting, that you say Max is more powerful than you... I know for a fact that he would disagree. He would tell you that he is no more powerful than you or anyone. he would tell you that "power" is an illusion.. I also find it interesting that you compare yourself to him saying you are like him. This indicates to me that I was correct in assuming that you actually admire him and want to be like him. This makes sense to me since you are both Coyote teachers. You must resonate with him energetically... I am going out on a limb here, just my opinion...but... maybe your fear of Max is your own unconscious fear of what you are capable of becoming. Maybe you are destined to be as "powerful" as you believe Max to be....

 

OK, I feel better now. I think I understand. If you truly are a sorcerer and can see into peoples' souls, you will know that I have nothing but respect and kindness in my heart toward you and that my words are sincere.. I believe that when you fully embrace your "Coyote-ness" Your students will be very lucky to find you and study with you...

 

my .02

[YMWong]

a quote from 5elementtao:

 

It feels to me like you would like to have what you see Max as having (students who admire and respect him), so instead of being able to get it yourself, you attack the one whom you wish you could be like.

 

and one by SJ:

 

I think there is something else though that makes me like Max

 

 

YM

[Starjumper]

Thanks five element, very good points, but no, not quite a coyote, as I try to not lie. This manner of my writing, coyote like, is because I'm in an environment here where there are hostile and friendly forces, it requires a delicate touch I think. With my students I'm pretty darn simple and straightforward and I teach in the traditional manner which I described earlier. I don't say much, I let them make discoveries on their own.

 

Why do I want to expose Max? I want to warn people to watch out. Because it's personal now. Maybe because I feel a friend was harmed and I regret my failure earlier and that hurts. I will explain this in my next post which is about transmissions, the big 'facts' thing that people are clamoring for. Then you will understand why I'm expending the energy. Ethical or not, I can't say for sure. I feel hurt and I want to lash out, that's all. I think I'm using remarkable restraint considering my nature.

 

As you say though, there is some kind of implicit agreement, conscious or unconscious, and I'm glad you said that as it does help. I think I'll need to hear that many times to heal. I'll just start repeating it to myself.

 

I truly hope to drop it then and lo and behold, I'm returning to the mountains Monday. Maybe I'll feel better and be able to save my energy. After working outdoors like I have been so much, when I'm home for a day I like to just sit here in front of the puter.

 

What is it that you teach, my friend?

 

a quote from 5elementtao:

and one by SJ:

 

YM

 

Is it odd to know we have some similarities? Here's another one I didn't realize until just two days ago. When I was a young boy, around six to eight, I was electrocuted on the crown point, I was knocked unconscious but recovered just as I hit the ground. If I was 'poetic' I cold say my crown point was fused open, OK, a couple of brothers in crime perhaps. There is something written in the records of the ancients though: If a person has their third eye open more than their crown point - danger.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Starjumper is on a quest!

 

9V7zbWNznbs&feature

[Mantra68]

I thought it was the burger and coke!

Actually, it depends on the company. When the Lamas bring monks to Max they have to do what he says, so he makes them take off their robes, put on civilian clothes, and go eat pizza or hamburgers and drink coke. For breakfast and/or midnight snack it is Cocoa Puffs.

 

Now, who would do that to Tibetan monks?

 

This is the "Coyote" way.

 

It is a very advanced form of teaching requiring a broad enough perspective that you know the correct prescription for each individual's block. The simpleton may not appreciate the subtle nuance of this method and dismiss it as dishonest or "mean/tricking/lying" but it is truly a beautiful thing because it gets you out of your own set of patterns to force you to look at things from another perspective and then REALLY learn something.

 

He may teach a kung fu form one way one day and completely different the next and then completely different the next. The point of course being that you are not learning the form, but the ESSENCE of the form, which is the most important part. Anybody can mimic.