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4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

If folks are drawn to the shiny, i have yet to witness the somber warnings of others dissuade them from exploring the shinies.

 

Yet it doesn't hurt to offer warnings when they are heartfelt and born of experience.  It only turns to harm when one begins 'enforcing' their warnings and using force and coercion of compliance.

 

The world is vast... and yet it's a tiny speck.

Every civilization, every ant, ever despot we have ever heard of, or not heard of, has lived out their path on this moist ball of dust.  And every particle of this planet home, arises from dao.

 

Every Islamic Imam, every Rabbi, every slum resident in Delhi, every Parisian in high dress, every dog turd arises from dao and returns to it... eventually. 

 

My thing is to not get too caught up in 'enforcing' one's ideas.  They are ideas after all, opinions based on experience, which is personal and not applicable to everyone's path.  We don't know what conditions are required for the awakening of another, even if we ourselves consider ourself to be awake.  The path we trod, is made by our trodding and may not have been trodden by another and even if trodden by another, do we ever walk the same path as another?

 

Indeed, even if following another step for step, do we ever take the same step as another?

Do we ever follow their Path?

 

The Path and the Pathmaker are one process.  And no two paths are identical.

There is not one way to source.

We all experience life, from the center of our awareness.

 

Whose Way is most correct?

 

Agreed. Making mistakes and following false paths is an aspect of how Dao teaches us.  This is something that must be individually learnt through experience. Trying to protect people from their vulnerabilities is treating them like small children. Sure it can lead to great hurt, yet, for me, my greatest insights have arisen from working through my deepest suffering. Spirit speaks to us through our vulnerabilities, and through our resulting suffering tries to guide us to greater alignment with Dao.

 

However, relevant to this thread which I’ve only browsed, I get no impression that Josh is a charlatan. Quite the opposite. I find him sincere. He is not trying to deceive people by presenting himself other than he is. With his colourful manner, he is keeping alive some of the magical aspects that have always been a part of Daoism; indeed, as has been mentioned, a core part.

 

Having said that, I will note one deception. (An obvious one I would assume.) My impression is that Josh is primarily here not to engage with Dao Bums as a discussion forum, but rather to use it as a place to make known his own web content. And the way members here have given him so much attention speaks volumes for his success.  In that way all these equally sincere and well intentioned warnings are actually counterproductive and will only serve to send to him those who feel an attraction to his path.  Such is the way of our chaotic human psyche with its myriad of opposing inner forces. 
 

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43 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 

Agreed. Making mistakes and following false paths is an aspect of how Dao teaches us.  This is something that must be individually learnt through experience. Trying to protect people from their vulnerabilities is treating them like small children. Sure it can lead to great hurt, yet, for me, my greatest insights have arisen from working through my deepest suffering. Spirit speaks to us through our vulnerabilities, and through our resulting suffering tries to guide us to greater alignment with Dao.

 

However, relevant to this thread which I’ve only browsed, I get no impression that Josh is a charlatan. Quite the opposite. I find him sincere. He is not trying to deceive people by presenting himself other than he is. With his colourful manner, he is keeping alive some of the magical aspects that have always been a part of Daoism; indeed, as has been mentioned, a core part.

 

Having said that, I will note one deception. (An obvious one I would assume.) My impression is that Josh is primarily here not to engage with Dao Bums as a discussion forum, but rather to use it as a place to make known his own web content. And the way members here have given him so much attention speaks volumes for his success.  In that way all these equally sincere and well intentioned warnings are actually counterproductive and will only serve to send to him those who feel an attraction to his path.  Such is the way of our chaotic human psyche with its myriad of opposing inner forces. 
 

 

Yes I agree with you. But will the hurt for Josh Allen come in the form of picking up a dirty spirit that he won't be able to get rid of? Time will tell. As I have said there is a framework that one must go through therefore one is then protected. If he wants to play out his Dao version of Macbeth in his backyard then that's up to him. He has been warned of the dangers. No more needs to be said. I expect he's got bored of this now and really couldn't give a toss what any of us think.

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7 hours ago, steve said:

 

Credibility for me goes deeper than clothes, cars, and words; and the lack thereof.

 

Generally speaking, most great spiritual masters had to live lives of poverty, either by circumstance or by just letting go of all they had, to release their minds and hearts of desire and attachment. Most major traditions advocate at least a period of poverty so that attachment is diminished and the mind and heart can therefore concentrate and focus on becoming one with the Dao etc.

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5 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Generally speaking, most great spiritual masters had to live lives of poverty, either by circumstance or by just letting go of all they had, to release their minds and hearts of desire and attachment. 

 

About money: I`ve noticed that many people associate virtue with their own particular economic circumstances.  For years I lived in Zacatecas Mexico among the relatively poor.  Many (not all) of the poor people I met think that wealthy people (say those living in the US) are morally suspect.  Some wealthy people think that the poor are morally suspect.  Perhaps we`re just generally suspicious of those who are different from us. 

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2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

About money: I`ve noticed that many people associate virtue with their own particular economic circumstances.  For years I lived in Zacatecas Mexico among the relatively poor.  Many (not all) of the poor people I met think that wealthy people (say those living in the US) are morally suspect.  Some wealthy people think that the poor are morally suspect.  Perhaps we`re just generally suspicious of those who are different from us. 


Watch ‚ÄúParasite‚ÄĚ and see why it deserved every award it got. This brings up the question of morality for rich and poor and the problems of capitalism.

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1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:


Watch ‚ÄúParasite‚ÄĚ and see why it deserved every award it got. This brings up the question of morality for rich and poor and the problems of capitalism.

 

Brilliant film!

Had me thinking and talking to my family about it for days. 

 

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30 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Brilliant film!

Had me thinking and talking to my family about it for days. 

 

 

I've lived on both ends of the spectrum in the film, and it's honestly a point that really affects me since I've never felt comfortable making ends meet or being well-off because the rat race doesn't go away, even when amongst the 1%, they're still stepping on each other in less obvious way since the mythical #1 is what everyone wants and feels so much lack amidst their servants and material wealth.

 

Watch the film Revolver by Guy Ritchie with Jason Statham. Kabbalistic film and also has a few good points on wealth, debt, and spiritual growth. 

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On 26/02/2020 at 4:24 PM, liminal_luke said:

That video of Lord Josh Allen is hilarious.¬† The outfit and persona is absurdly ideal for a Daoist master who wishes to remain incognito.¬† It¬īs so flamboyant and "out there" -- so contrary to commonly held notions of how a Daoist master should behave -- that it¬īs the perfect disguise.¬† No serious person would ever suspect¬†LJA¬īs spiritual mastery.¬† They¬īd take one look at the glamour and the glitz and keep right on going.¬† Meanwhile, LJA is free to work his wizardry in blessed peace and isolation.¬†

I'm back, I haven't been on here much recently due to working on some creative projects. I've just finished another Weird and Wonderful Wardrobe episode. 

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17 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I think Lord Josh may have   ' left the building  '  .

I'm here, just been very busy working on other things for my channel. I don't intend to use this forum on a daily basis. I'll have a read of the other posts I'll try to catch up with all of you later today. 

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On 2/28/2020 at 2:00 PM, flowing hands said:

 

the Immortal you

 

 

These three words are out of your text.  I have taken them completely out of context.  I think what Steve was alluding to, and what I'm asking you, is how in your mind do you reconcile The Immortal You with another entity?  I am truly interested in that.  I think the hardest (and most subtle) thing to learn is how to wear the robe once we discover that we have a robe on.  If I were in the position of dealing with an actual entity, my mind would justify the duality by realizing that linear time is an illusion, and therefore it is very possible that you and the entity are one and the same.  I think we're all one and the same, and that includes those that came before us and those that will come after us.  Do you have thoughts along those lines?

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1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

These three words are out of your text.  I have taken them completely out of context.  I think what Steve was alluding to, and what I'm asking you, is how in your mind do you reconcile The Immortal You with another entity?  I am truly interested in that.  I think the hardest (and most subtle) thing to learn is how to wear the robe once we discover that we have a robe on.  If I were in the position of dealing with an actual entity, my mind would justify the duality by realizing that linear time is an illusion, and therefore it is very possible that you and the entity are one and the same.  I think we're all one and the same, and that includes those that came before us and those that will come after us.  Do you have thoughts along those lines?

 

Firstly I'm not an Immortal. If we first describe what an Immortal is and isn't we have our understanding. In the heavens there are thousands of Immortals. Some as old as the universe itself. The heavens is the sky above us. We cannot see the immortals there as they are just energy, although they sometimes can visit the earth as humans or any other life. They are in the greatest state a living thing can be in. They have transcended the material world and are literally energy. We are as life a mixture of matter and energy, but an Immortal has cultivated so that their energy is much greater than their matter. So when their matter dies, what is left is energy, unrestricted by a body. Now there are all sorts of levels of Immortals. We as ordinary people may have the embryo of an infant Immortal inside us, but it is what we do, what we cultivate etc. depends on what level we get to in the level of the spirit that we have inside us. It may take us a thousand lifetimes to get to being an Immortal. The Immortal is the spirit of a human or animal that has transcended the material world. The Immortal and I are completely separate, just like two humans. But one is in a super powerful pure and cultivated state.  The spirit entity is so unbelievably powerful in its ability to move anything if it wants to for instance. An Immortal can move the sun and send it billions of light years away from us. It can do unimaginable things. With such power comes responsibility.  That's why it's so difficult to become an Immortal. This is what I know

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7 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I'm back, I haven't been on here much recently due to working on some creative projects. I've just finished another Weird and Wonderful Wardrobe episode. 

 

Well ......       where is it   ? 

 

:) 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

Firstly I'm not an Immortal. If we first describe what an Immortal is and isn't we have our understanding. In the heavens there are thousands of Immortals. Some as old as the universe itself. The heavens is the sky above us. We cannot see the immortals there as they are just energy, although they sometimes can visit the earth as humans or any other life. They are in the greatest state a living thing can be in. They have transcended the material world and are literally energy. We are as life a mixture of matter and energy, but an Immortal has cultivated so that their energy is much greater than their matter. So when their matter dies, what is left is energy, unrestricted by a body. Now there are all sorts of levels of Immortals. We as ordinary people may have the embryo of an infant Immortal inside us, but it is what we do, what we cultivate etc. depends on what level we get to in the level of the spirit that we have inside us. It may take us a thousand lifetimes to get to being an Immortal. The Immortal is the spirit of a human or animal that has transcended the material world. The Immortal and I are completely separate, just like two humans. But one is in a super powerful pure and cultivated state.  The spirit entity is so unbelievably powerful in its ability to move anything if it wants to for instance. An Immortal can move the sun and send it billions of light years away from us. It can do unimaginable things. With such power comes responsibility.  That's why it's so difficult to become an Immortal. This is what I know

 

 

I am doing apples and oranges, I think.

 

If one is in possession of the I Am consciousness (also known by countless other names) as a result of self-realization, it seems that the understanding of that is the knowledge that we are all the Dao, God, Christ --  whatever consciousness you want to call it.  There isn't really a difference between us, we just think we're separate.  I'm assuming that you have full knowledge of that consciousness.  That would mean that there is no separation between you and the entity and that all is Here Now.  This is the poser I'm asking :huh:

 

Also, if you have accepted the divine condition, you actually are an immortal.

Edited by manitou

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Where is the ' poser ' ? 

 

Is it the discrepancy between  "  There isn't really a difference between us, we just think we're separate.  "   yet  .... here I am here , and there you are waaaay over there , and we are very different people  ;  " that there is no separation between you and the entity "  , or me and 'the entity' / Dao /God/ Christ    yet     ......  Nungers  be 

 

 

guys_are_slobs.png

 

  ?

 

In the 'old days'  when 'externalised  phenomena'  where more accepted they 'created' the 'Hierarchy of Beings'  concepts .   'God consciousness' was the realm of prophets or priests  ( or initiated Taoists    ;)  )  .  Yes, 'God' was at the apex , or more correctly 'the outer ' .

 

783a02c4de6908b65cc02ea7631681a3.jpg

 

But we can experience 'communion' with God  ( even if via priest or prophet )   because we are  IN side the sphere of God .  

 

But that doesnt help with your 'poser'   ( if I got  what your poser was ) .

 

A better approach seems  a multilayer  approach to consciousness .   All those levels exist inside your psyche  ( let's leave aside the question of how big this psyche is, for the moment )  .   They might also exist 'aside from' and 'independent to'  ones' psyche . 

 

I like the exopsychology approach which uses  a similar 'level'  model but varied and using a modern metaphor of 'programming'  and hardware and software .   It utilises 8 levels or 'mini brains' .   We come pre programmed with 4 basic ones . The very basic ones are bio-survivial, then they build through identity forming,  and  artistic and social expression and sexual development .   The other four levels,  are 'to be programmed'   ( thats the average stage of development of humans at present  , just crossing into level 5  ), but some individuals may already have some of these  higher  levels developed  . )  

 

Now level 1 seems to be the level where 'we are all one ' / 'God -consciousness '  - its a high state .   In Exopsychology they attribute a location to consciousness  for each level , eg.  the basic drives have consciousness centred in the brain stem ,  higher levels in the frontal part of the brain ,  level 5 , L and R hemisphere interaction ,  ' Neuro- genetic level '  , consciousness centred in the  genetic coding .   The second highest level ...  ( each is also attributed to a psychoactive drug  eg , Neuro somatic , Level 1 - opiates, Anal-territorial circuit  - alcohol  )  has an attribution to certain psychedelics  - they can give a feeling of 'consciousness at the top of the head ' , or even outside the body just above the head .   But the location of level 1 consciousness is described as  'non-local'  .

 

I think THIS is the level in us that we CAN  (for some )   contact , 'cosmic consciousness'  and where there is no separation between 'us'  .  But there is certainly separation or 'difference'  between our 'lower levels' .

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The moon I was describing earlier in the thread...

 

290E92DC-6916-4D7B-A286-8493C7CC2BB5.thumb.jpeg.ba1ceccc8a92acf2250bdcff64b9de98.jpeg

Edited by steve
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I¬īm reminded of a beautiful visualization meditation called "moon on lake" that¬†@Sebastian¬†shared way back in 2014.¬† Something so special about moonlight reflected in water...

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12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I¬īm reminded of a beautiful visualization meditation called "moon on lake" that¬†@Sebastian¬†shared way back in 2014.¬† Something so special about moonlight reflected in water...

 

Wow, good memory.

 

I had to dig that up, and even the link I had referenced at the time was broken. But because of your serendipitous thought I have found a way to bring it back alive. So thank you, and here it is in abridged format.... Although, this isn't my meditation, just something I shared in 2014 that  apparently is used in some of China’s qigong hospitals, as part of treatment plan for a wide variety of emotional and psychological disturbances. It is beautiful though, you are right, enjoy. 


 

Quote

 

1) Bring your attention into the heart-space: right in the center of your chest, between your spine and your sternum (breast-bone). Become aware of a feeling of spaciousness in this part of your body.


2) Now imagine that within this heart-space there is a beautiful lake ‚Äď its surface perfectly still. Visualize this beautiful lake, and imagine that you are sitting along its banks. Imagine that it is night-time, and in the sky above the lake there is a full moon, shining brightly. Now see this full moon reflected on the surface of the lake, as though in a perfectly-smooth mirror. Let yourself be amazed and inspired by the beauty and serenity of this scene, as though you were saying ‚ÄúAhhh ‚Ķ ‚Äú


3) Now ‚Äď maintaining this image of the moon reflected on the lake ‚Äď become aware of your breath, without trying to change it in any way. Simply notice your inhalations and exhalations, each following the other.


4) Imagine, now, that your breath is a gentle wind, which is flowing across the surface of this lake in your heart-center, creating small ripples. See the ripples flowing across the surface of the lake. Are they flowing toward you or away from you? See how the reflection of the moon is now rippling too, as the wind-breath moves across it. Feel the energy of this gentle rippling.

 

5) Now allow that rippling ‚Äď the surface of the lake carrying the light of the reflected moon ‚Äď to expand in all directions. From your heart-center, the rippling ripples outward into every cell of your body, infusing each cell with rippling reflected moonlight ‚Äď so beautiful! Feel your entire body alive with the beauty and energy of the reflected moonlight, of the rippling surface of the lake. Continue with this part of the visualization for as long as you would like.


6) Now reverse the process: allow the rippling reflected moonlight to return to its ‚Äúhome‚ÄĚ in your heart-center. Once again see the lake, with clearly-defined banks, its surface rippling gently with your breath, there in your heart-center. See the moon shining brightly above.


7) Now allow the rippling once again to subside, until the surface of the lake, with the reflected moon, is once more perfectly still, mirror-like. Appreciate its serene beauty.

 

8) When you feel ready to end the practice, simply allow the visualization to dissolve, leaving in its place a feeling of warmth and/or spaciousness in your heart-center. Notice how you feel ‚Äď and let that feeling infuse the activities of the rest of your day.

 

 

 

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OK.... You've inspired me.... So here are two gentlemen that deeply inspire me, and what they wrote about the moon.

 

 

Fernando Pessoa (on Wholeness)

 

To be great, be whole: nothing that's you
         Should you exaggerate or exclude.
In each thing, be all. Give all you are
         In the least you ever do.
The whole moon, because it rides so high,
         Is reflected in each pool.

 

moon-reflects-on-water-linda-vanoudenhae

 

 

Ni Hua Ching (on handling emotions)

 

The moon waxes and wanes.

 

Tides ebb and flow.

 

Emotion moves up and down.

 

Only achieved ones enjoy

 

The smooth flow of nature.

 

2_2_1112a_002.jpg&key=680a4d79791957e12c

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OK.... And to get back on topic.... here is a safe ritual that you can use to affect your environment - in this case the growth of trees.

 

The little girl does it with innocence, curiosity and wonder. These qualities are already some serious "Magick" in my book....

 

 

 

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Btw, regarding that back and forth between Silent_Thunder and Walker, I would just add, even though it sounds quite obvious, that the Tao cannot be bought. The real teachings cannot be sold, I think this is a given. It also doesn't require a financial commitment. I mean, the Tao cannot be packaged into CDs and DVDs and marketed, and bought for $9.99.... And it's the same for workshops, even though they can be very useful at times.

 

Personally I've been taught by some wonderful Masters for free, for years, and I've also spent quite some money with others. However I don't view the paid instructions as less worthy. What matters as Silent_Thunder said is who you resonate with. And the subtle truth is that Masters can only teach you as high as your level anyways. By this I mean, your progress is still up to your subjective effort and sincerity. You are the one, ultimately who decides how high you want to take this, no matter if the instruction you received is paid or non-paid. 

 

I think Masters just work differently, and we have to respect that, in the spirit of the Tao. Some would get offended if they didn't receive compensation. So pay these people. Others would never accept a dime from you, so don't confuse them. Maybe show an act of kindness instead. But ultimately Tao has nothing to do with money, that's for sure, and you can learn much from street kids or your grandma I agree. I think the more specialized a knowledge or skill becomes, the more likely you are to pay for instruction, but at the same time, a small skill or esoteric specialty can never be the whole truth, because it is limited by definition. The Tao that is in everything, he Sun, the air, the innocence of that little girl, will always be free. I have much respect for Masters that teach workshops and also for those that teach others relentlessly for free... I think they both serve a purpose.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I am doing apples and oranges, I think.

 

If one is in possession of the I Am consciousness (also known by countless other names) as a result of self-realization, it seems that the understanding of that is the knowledge that we are all the Dao, God, Christ --  whatever consciousness you want to call it.  There isn't really a difference between us, we just think we're separate.  I'm assuming that you have full knowledge of that consciousness.  That would mean that there is no separation between you and the entity and that all is Here Now.  This is the poser I'm asking :huh:

 

Also, if you have accepted the divine condition, you actually are an immortal.

 

I think you have the wrong end of sticks and mixing up various knowledges and applying it like jam to everybody's toast! :) The theory you are expressing is exactly that, just a theory expressed by many. We may share the same energy that connects all living things, but we are all separate energy entities in differing states of well being, in differing states of perception, very different bodies etc. and more importantly differing states of experience and cultivation. The secrets of the universe are exactly that and the way to Immortality is a process and becoming one takes far more self input and knowledge than a shared consciousness. I am in a certain state of cultivation as a shaman, the Immortal Masters have made it to the highest state of cultivation. We may share the same energy in common, but that's where the similarity starts and ends.

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16 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Firstly I'm not an Immortal. If we first describe what an Immortal is and isn't we have our understanding. In the heavens there are thousands of Immortals. Some as old as the universe itself. The heavens is the sky above us. We cannot see the immortals there as they are just energy, although they sometimes can visit the earth as humans or any other life.

 

Sometimes immortals incarnate into human bodies  :)

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19 hours ago, flowing hands said:

We cannot see the immortals there as they are just energy  ...

 

Sometimes they may present themselves visually, but with no material substance.  Other times they may present themselves verbally, when they speak to some people, although with no visible manifestation.  Sometimes they are both seen and heard.

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