Earl Grey

Appeal to Forum Community to Ban Member “Everything”

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2 hours ago, ralis said:


In terms of the previous mod crew, there was an obvious bias toward allowing a right wing cabal rule over political, global warming and other discussions. I could list any number of problems, but upon Sean’s return he listed as to what is not allowed!

 

This is true. It’s unfortunate that Dawei who was an otherwise excellent administrator had such a liking for Trump. And with rabid Trump supporter Karen as a moderator, it was too much.  To my mind, it was this bias, both expressed and covert, that made this forum such a friendly place for extreme rightwing political views; views that are the antithesis of every major spiritual tradition and especially that expressed by the Daodejing

 

However, whilst I certainly saw the need for Sean to intervene and redress the bias, he did so outside of the rules of this forum. These minimal rules have served this forum well in that it’s a dynamic site, full of vitality. Dawei, as administrator, was particularly strong on allowing discussion to be free flowing and, to my mind, showed wise judgement (aside from his strong pro-Trump bias) when deciding whether to take disciplinary action against anyone.  Prior to Sean’s intervention, all I thought that was necessary was to retire Karen as a moderator and replace her with a neutral or anti-Trump person. Karen herself had already served a long time as a moderator and was very hard working. She put a lot of herself into trying to help this forum run smoothly.  However, she had a strong combative streak, and that when combined with her strong political views severely compromised her ability to be an objective moderator.

 

I do not want to see any member banned except when they clearly violate the rules. This is a public forum open to anyone. If Daoism has any validity at all, then we must allow the freedom for the Dao to work its wisdom here. The quality of discussion here is a reflection of our collective de, especially that of those members who contribute the most. When things go awry in my own life, I have learnt through trial and error to examine my own attitudes rather than putting the blame on others.  Nothing wrong with expressing animosity, but ganging up on others is outside of what I would hope can be the ongoing spirit of this forum.

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^ agree with this. I think the the banhammer should only be wielded on those who are repeatedly abusive. Personally I have a soft spot for someone who comes onto a thread calling for him to be banned and thanks everyone, regardless of whether he/she is a bit kooky.

 

With regards to the previous moderation crew, I liked and respected Kar3n a lot. I had no idea about her political views though, as I never really frequented the off topic areas. As a dyed in the wool socialist, I have no sympathy for far right views. But I think politics shouldn't really have a place here at all. 

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1 hour ago, Yueya said:

 

This is true. It’s unfortunate that Dawei who was an otherwise excellent administrator had such a liking for Trump. And with rabid Trump supporter Karen as a moderator, it was too much.  To my mind, it was this bias, both expressed and covert, that made this forum such a friendly place for extreme rightwing political views; views that are the antithesis of every major spiritual tradition and especially that expressed by the Daodejing

 

However, whilst I certainly saw the need for Sean to intervene and redress the bias, he did so outside of the rules of this forum. These minimal rules have served this forum well in that it’s a dynamic site, full of vitality. Dawei, as administrator, was particularly strong on allowing discussion to be free flowing and, to my mind, showed wise judgement (aside from his strong pro-Trump bias) when deciding whether to take disciplinary action against anyone.  Prior to Sean’s intervention, all I thought that was necessary was to retire Karen as a moderator and replace her with a neutral or anti-Trump person. Karen herself had already served a long time as a moderator and was very hard working. She put a lot of herself into trying to help this forum run smoothly.  However, she had a strong combative streak, and that when combined with her strong political views severely compromised her ability to be an objective moderator.

 

I do not want to see any member banned except when they clearly violate the rules. This is a public forum open to anyone. If Daoism has any validity at all, then we must allow the freedom for the Dao to work its wisdom here. The quality of discussion here is a reflection of our collective de, especially that of those members who contribute the most. When things go awry in my own life, I have learnt through trial and error to examine my own attitudes rather than putting the blame on others.  Nothing wrong with expressing animosity, but ganging up on others is outside of what I would hope can be the ongoing spirit of this forum.

 

I reported the most egregious posts that were anti-Semitic, misogynist, racist and other forms of bigotry that are nothing more than hate speech. Was anyone banned or even suspended during the last few years? No!

 

According to the rules that were written years ago the above was not in keeping with the rules.

 

 

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I'm very grateful for the lack of moderation and the current atmosphere. 

It is indescribably better to me, than the bias of recent years.

 

As for spamming troll-like behavior...

 

Stop feeding a thing and it whithers. 

Arguments are transactional and require two participants to manifest.

 

When I want to diminish a behavior in myself, I first have to identify it, then I have to stop feeding into it.  After this, it begins to whither.

 

This applies to plants, puppies, children, teen and adult attention seekers and my own undesirable behaviors/tendencies.

 

Report what breaks the rules to sean.

But really... rule thy self.  Moderate thy self.

 

Stop validating and condoning by responding, but if one feels compelled to respond, for the sake of peace, stop escalating.  It's unbecoming of the effort our teachers have imbued in our development, stunts the heart and spreads misery which is life blood of troll like pursuers.

 

Spamming off topic is against the rules.  Report it. 

Starting threads calling out members is also a suspension worthy offense.

As is Ad-hominem.

 

Moderate thy self.  We have a plethora of skills we've developed... practice them here and now... bring it off the mat.

 

Life is life and we're all here by choice.  Self moderation for the win.

I only read E-things responses on occasion and then, only when they are concise.  I skim passed them otherwise, as I've no interest in stream of consciousness responses to what are otherwise thoughtful conversations.  But to rise up and assault him verbally, lends him a validation he has not earned in my perspective. 

 

No one is capable of ruining my experience here but me.  Spamming is a minor annoyance, easily remedied by scrolling past responses, or using the ignore function. 

 

Lately I impose media limits and engage in regular media fasting when I start becoming off balanced by participation in social media, news, or entertainment.

 

Maybe some self imposed time away would benefit.

and on that note:  I'm going for another walk.  It's feeling like a two walk day.

 

 

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I don't know who "escalated" what.  Personally, all I did was ask "Everything" to not post unrelated stuff in just one thread -- a thread I started that was focused enough, alive and well and ongoing, and specific enough to require some reading effort toward participation and some thinking effort toward meaningful participation.   

 

The Sumer thread was conceived of as long term, a gradual exploration of a complex subject.  "Everything" brought that to a halt repeatedly.  I asked very politely to please stick to the topic.  That was very easy for "Everything" to ignore, just some chirping OP interfering with his flow, who cares when he overfloweth.  I asked him to please start his own thread for things he'd rather talk about. 

I asked again.  And again.  And again.  Other posters in the thread did the same.  And again.  And again.     

 

He responded by more massive spam and a rather unpleasant attempt at identity theft -- in my thread he wrote an imaginary dialog between a wise sage "Everything" and a mean-spirited idiot "Taomeow."  Didn't even bother to mess with quotes the way he did with other people, but just wrote purported "Taomeow's" speeches ascribed to me from scratch. ( I shudder at the thought of someone doing a search online and that falsified identity coming up in response.  It got later split off into a separate thread by Sean, along with some of "Everything's other "contributions," "Everything's" very own to do as he pleases.  I resisted the urge to ask Sean to at least remove that "fake Taomeow" part because I didn't feel like "escalating."  I was just hoping maybe no one will go read that, not many people are capable of reading everything "Everything" writes.  But I still feel a bit uneasy for it still being there.)  Sean asked "Everything" not to post in the Sumer thread anymore.  That, too, was promptly ignored.

 

How on earth did I manage to "provoke" it?  I've been a magnet for a certain kind of energies on many occasions, I'm not complaining, it's part of my path and I wouldn't be on "any" path if not pushed by rather merciless designs and devices, I know that.  But still...  What kind of disability of sense and sensibility ought to have struck to help anyone "just ignore" attention of this nature?  Which brain pathways ought one to disable to successfully see this behavior as harmless, and one's reaction, as "escalating?" 

 

If this is love, I'll take abuse, please.  And if this is abuse, as I think it is, it ought to be stopped, please.  

Edited by Taomeow
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23 hours ago, ralis said:

In terms of the previous mod crew, there was an obvious bias toward allowing a right wing cabal rule over political, global warming and other discussions. I could list any number of problems, but upon Sean’s return he listed as to what is not allowed!

 

20 hours ago, Yueya said:

This is true. It’s unfortunate that Dawei who was an otherwise excellent administrator had such a liking for Trump. And with rabid Trump supporter Karen as a moderator, it was too much.  To my mind, it was this bias, both expressed and covert, that made this forum such a friendly place for extreme rightwing political views; views that are the antithesis of every major spiritual tradition and especially that expressed by the Daodejing

 

I don't think you guys still quite get it.  I treated Trump the same as I treated everyone here; they were free to be who they are without the need to hurl curses at someone.   My position was, if someone did something similar on the left and right they are really just doing the same thing.  So I can't much complain about either one.  I don't like false narratives in general either.  

 

For disclosure, I had talked some with Sean when the left leaning posts were getting a bit out of control and was left to decide myself.  I took that to mean, I have to allow right leaning posts to have their ability to expression.   I did ban at least one word and one conspiracy theory but otherwise allowed folks to say in a very private area, what they wanted.   I will agree the tide changed from left to right and likely should of considered the unfair balance of blab going on... but we're simply back to a shift to the left blab in control. 

 

I have no problem with Sean deciding what blab is censored and allowed.  I would of enforced his wish had he stated it.   Without guidance, I let both sides be who they are, within the rules.  

 

 

Quote

However, whilst I certainly saw the need for Sean to intervene and redress the bias, he did so outside of the rules of this forum. These minimal rules have served this forum well in that it’s a dynamic site, full of vitality. Dawei, as administrator, was particularly strong on allowing discussion to be free flowing and, to my mind, showed wise judgement (aside from his strong pro-Trump bias) when deciding whether to take disciplinary action against anyone.  Prior to Sean’s intervention, all I thought that was necessary was to retire Karen as a moderator and replace her with a neutral or anti-Trump person. Karen herself had already served a long time as a moderator and was very hard working. She put a lot of herself into trying to help this forum run smoothly.  However, she had a strong combative streak, and that when combined with her strong political views severely compromised her ability to be an objective moderator.

 

I don't really like to talk about folks if they have left the board cuz they can't speak for themself... Karen was abworkhorse.  Folks don't like to be on staff due to the stress of it.  I managed it and her as well as I could.  There were lots of behind the scenes discussion on 'moderating', believe me.

 

Quote

I do not want to see any member banned except when they clearly violate the rules. This is a public forum open to anyone. If Daoism has any validity at all, then we must allow the freedom for the Dao to work its wisdom here. The quality of discussion here is a reflection of our collective de, especially that of those members who contribute the most. When things go awry in my own life, I have learnt through trial and error to examine my own attitudes rather than putting the blame on others.  Nothing wrong with expressing animosity, but ganging up on others is outside of what I would hope can be the ongoing spirit of this forum.

 

I generally agree... and we all likely have lots of opinions, but I simply defer to what Sean wants to do.  I will say, to his credit, he spoke against a growing forum for many years with me... and a 'return' to something simple.   We all saw with his return, he has several thoughts on re-structure and there was not anything I was against really.   I gave advice on what I thought could be consolidated, moved, etc.   I fully expected a very trimmed down forum.   So it was very interesting that very few changes did occur.  I'm not sure if it was people's input saying they kind of liked this or that, etc... and a combination of, let's do a little bit and see what its like later.   I think it was very smart to ask the forum for comments and the tribe decision seemed to generally be heard and play out.

 

I prefer more open and growing forums but that doesn't mean I am against smaller, trimmed down ones.   Once a decision is made, I go with the flow of it.

 

As for Everything.  That is in Sean's hands as he is effectively solo as Judge Dredd (judge, juror, executioner).   I honestly don't see anything wrong with that... BTW: my son was writing me tonight about the movie, so it pops out.   I talked with others about going to a 3 admin system and reducing staff to three equal powers.  I had seen some issues with how staff decisions are made over a long time, and considered this and even talked with Sean about it... in the end, I did not do it.   Now, I think that was a missed chance and may of stopped the off-grid experiment I was willing to test.  

 

I want to also be open about Taomeow.  I need to shoulder her previous voluntary exile as that was a really odd issue that unfolded.  I don't really want to discuss it nor the reasons I did what I did as everyone will not be satisfied anyways.  But it came down to the staff treatment she felt at the time.   It was basically a lose-lose situation for me.   I will say that I contacted her a few times during her break and she let me know her feelings.   Her openness was appreciated as it helps inform what members feel and go through.   I didn't need to contact her; she didn't need to tell me her thoughts; but spoke, we did.  

 

I definitely don't want to see someone banned unless there is a good cause but accept whatever happens.  I also don't want to see someone walk away from the forum [again] due to how folks participate.   But many walked away in the last months.  

 

 Back to the topic... I think Silent Thunder has some great comments: 

 

1. Report what breaks the rules

2. rule thy self.  Moderate thy self.

3. Stop validating and condoning by responding,

4. Spamming off topic is against the rules.  Report it. 

5. [Original content removed.  Members should start threads within the rules.]

6. As is Ad-hominem.

7. No one is capable of ruining my experience here but me.  Spamming is a minor annoyance, easily remedied by scrolling past responses, or using the ignore function. 

 

I'm not asking Sean to create these rules but I think these are great self-rules.   

 

If I have share information that someone would prefer I remove, let me know.   

Edited by dawei
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1 hour ago, dawei said:

5. Starting threads calling out members is also a suspension worthy offense.

[Above line appeared in previous post by Dawei before being edited out; strikethrough to note this]


This was done to me in a WMP thread a few months ago, and when it was brought up, the user was full of impunity, while Sean’s response was, “Are you offended?” about my name being used. The thread title was changed, but the main lesson there was that we’re on our own in a dynamic anarchic state that to me means we do what we can ourselves--until it’s a dealbreaker scenario for Sean to step in and eliminate things, like an individual who had the audacity to actually praise Hitler in another thread, leading to his instant dismissal.

 

To me, we are in a state of forum anarchy, and this has actually been a part of my plan to stop pretending things like Everything and his constant spamming are “okay” and actually address them. If it gets everyone’s attention and creates dialogue, fantastic, even though my petition here was an attempt to get action more than attention.
 

At the very least, the people I know reporting this will bring this to Sean’s attention, eventually.
 

I’m willing to be the fall guy now if need be, because it had to be said.

Edited by Earl Grey
1. Strikethrough part edited out of Dawei's original post, 2. Punctuation for my post originally typed on mobile not on laptop.
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5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:


This was done to me in a WMP thread a few months ago and when it was brought up, the user was full of impunity and Sean’s response was, “Are you offended?” about my name being used. The thread title was changed, but the main lesson there was that we’re on our own in a dynamic anarchic state that to me means we do what we can ourselves until it’s a dealbreaker scenario for Sean to step in and eliminate things like an individual who had the audacity to actually praise Hitler in another thread, leading to his instant dismissal.

 

To me, we are in a state of forum anarchy, and this has actually been a part of my plan to stop pretending things are “okay” and actually address them. If it gets everyone’s attention and creates dialogue, fantastic, even though my petition here was an attempt to get action more than attention.
 

At the very least, the people I know reporting this will bring this to Sean’s attention eventually.
 

I’m willing to be the fall guy now if need be because it had to be said.

 

Sorry... this one item I would, as Admin, not consider as an issue.  I'll edit it out.  You should be afforded a freedom to start a thread.

 

I understand the point made by the poster, but disagree this is an offense to the forum.   

 

Edit: I have edited the post.  You may choose to edit out yours with an original content or not.   

Edited by dawei
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You´ll never see me hanging out in the philosophical taoism threads.  Not my thing.  But I do know that one line about the Tao not being something you can name with language.  I love that.  I think all deep truths are beyond language.  For me, the essence of truth is paradox, mystery, the unknowable.  

 

I bring this up because I find myself agreeing with two seemingly contrary positions at the same time.  In a rational universe both ideas couldn´t be true at the same time -- so thank goodness this isn´t a rational universe!  

 

Let me say from the get-go that I totally agree with Taomeow that Everything´s behavior has been abusive.  He was really awful in her thread.  Worse, he was awful in the guise of being loving.  It´s the guise of being loving part that really twists it up into something awful.  I don´t know squat about Sumeria and ancient history but if there was some sort of primordial paradise that was lost with the dawning of civilization, I´ll bet the downfall started with pretend sweetness.  There´s really nothing worse.  So to Taomeow and Earl Grey and Nungali and myself I say this: You have every right to be pissed.  You have every right to shout your dissatisfaction loud and clear.  You care about this place and the time you put into your contributions and it sucks that someone is allowed to come and...bleep, bleep, bleep.  

 

And then there´s @Silent Thunder saying in his wise way...no one is capable of ruining my experience here but me. And as much as I don´t want to, I find myself agreeing with him too.  Even though it seems to go against everything I just said.  

 

I can´t tell you which of these perspectives is more right.  I like them both, which I suppose makes me either a namby pamby people pleaser or a sage.  Please don´t bother telling me which.

Edited by liminal_luke
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I want to add... members should report issues they see.  How else can the staff know what is the pulse of the forum?

 

I think we may want to consider what is reported vs posted...  the former usually gets almost no action but the latter gets member response.  

 

I understood your original post and meaning and support of what you see going on.   I think you should be afforded the chance to post such issues. 

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30 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Sorry... this one item I would, as Admin, not consider as an issue.  I'll edit it out.  You should be afforded a freedom to start a thread.

 

I understand the point made by the poster, but disagree this is an offense to the forum.   

 

Edit: I have edited the post.  You may choose to edit out yours with an original content or not.   

 

There was no need to edit the original post; honestly, I agree that calling someone out and starting a topic about it is a faux pas, as it was clearly understood to be when you were administering things here. Given that it seemed to not be seen as a big deal by Sean after you all were removed from your positions, I still felt that the spirit of that self-moderation rule of not calling someone out and starting a thread is still something to be honored.

 

The reason I broke that personal rule and unspoken social agreement is that I am at the end of my rope here, and a lot of people don't seem to be able to focus on the topic of their threads when they're constantly reminding and asking Everything to STOP. It isn't just about placing a member on ignore, especially when he quotes us and edits our posts--it's that others who have yet to place him on ignore also get affected as he pushes his agenda of the same nonsense EVERYWHERE. 

 

22 minutes ago, dawei said:

I want to add... members should report issues they see.  How else can the staff know what is the pulse of the forum?

 

I think we may want to consider what is reported vs posted...  the former usually gets almost no action but the latter gets member response.  

 

I understood your original post and meaning and support of what you see going on.   I think you should be afforded the chance to post such issues. 

 

I created this initially with the intent to make this a petition for action. I created this as a Xanatos gambit to get people talking about it anyway to bring the focus of Everything here instead of multiple threads telling him to leave, and a possible solution to be created short of banning him. I created this because it will get Sean's attention, just like it got everyone else's attention.

 

Whatever consequences await me--for better or for worse--I take full responsibility for and have no regrets about opening Pandora's Box here. 

Edited by Earl Grey
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1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

There was no need to edit the original post; honestly, I agree that calling someone out and starting a topic about it is a faux pas, as it was clearly understood to be when you were administering things here. Given that it seemed to not be seen as a big deal by Sean after you all were removed from your positions, I still felt that the spirit of that self-moderation rule of not calling someone out and starting a thread is still something to be honored.

 

thanks for that honesty.  I think your posting was ok.  Calling someone out may raise eyebrows and there are of course many variables to weigh ( I work with data and just my mindset).   I find your post a very reasonable expression to staff.. but you may have to accept if nothing is done in response. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

The reason I broke that personal rule and unspoken social agreement is that I am at the end of my rope here, and a lot of people don't seem to be able to focus on the topic of their threads when they're constantly reminding and asking Everything to STOP. It isn't just about placing a member on ignore, especially when he quotes us and edits our posts--it's that others who have yet to place him on ignore also get affected as he pushes his agenda of the same nonsense EVERYWHERE. 

 

Having been on staff for almost 15 years (not just here), I do get that.  It is a challenge of forum discussion.   I am personally a bit aligned to staying on topic... but the freedom to bs is something we see in all topics at times.   That is why I favor subforums where we say, this is discrete content and you can't bs in it. 

 

Editing another's response post is truly wrong.  

 

Everything was told to stop posting in that one thread... a big problem is, that message was months before he next posted... so nobody can know if he saw it.   That is a big challenge on staff. 

 

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

I created this initially with the intent to make this a petition for action. I created this as a Xanatos gambit to get people talking about it anyway to bring the focus of Everything here instead of multiple threads telling him to leave, and a possible solution to be created short of banning him. I created this because it will get Sean's attention, just like it got everyone else's attention. Whatever consequences await me--for better or for worse--I take full responsibility for and have no regrets about opening Pandora's Box here. 

 

I get it.  Posting a thread also gets member attention.  I think that is ok.   We should understand how members feel.   Don't think for a minute that this has consequence outside of honest sharing. 

 

I personally think the transition to a single Admin creates some pressure on Sean to be here and responding to issues.   So I think we need to give him some space to his availability and how the forum plays out based on the comments laid out so far.

 

Each of us has a vision, on the past and present and future, as to how we see this forum exist.  Your thread helps an understanding in that direction.  Sean's decisions will help show his vision for what he wants of the forum.  (SOrry to comment for Sean, and if I said anything wrong, I will remove it).

 

You have opened up a discussion on an issue.   The challenge is likely how fast there is response and action or not.  

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17 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

I recommend those that take offence, to please put 'Everything' on their personal Ignore List.

 

This can be done under the account settings tab.

 

Its also a good opportunity to practice restraint.

 

I lurk more than I post (I think this is my 5th post).

 

I tend to read threads without logging in (mostly at work, I admit). No logging in, no personal Ignore List. So when someone hijacks a thread, that thread is pretty much hosed for a regular reader who does not log in.

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2 hours ago, dawei said:

If I have share information that someone would prefer I remove, let me know.   

 

No need to remove what is in reference to my humble person, but I'd appreciate a more precise wording.  I myself didn't understand what you meant by "break" on first read and was very surprised, almost to the point of dropping and in all likelihood breaking a cup of tea I was holding.  Ah...  he means I "took a break."  I did take a voluntary break, which would have been permanent departure if the staff that caused me to make this decision was still in power.  As I told you in our private conversation. 

 

What that hardworking, tireless, industrious mob you were either unwilling or unable to stand up to (if you can't beat them, join them kind of a deal -- or maybe more like if you don't want to beat them because you're OK with their ways -- I won't speculate which) -- what they managed to pull off was the single meanest, ugliest, most dishonest, most disgusting and distorted example of power abuse -- beginning with the power of interpretation/spin that, in a dizzying display of black magic,  twisted the right into the wrong and the wrong into the right with stunning sleight-of-hand -- that I've ever encountered in all of my virtual, online life.  However, it was still virtual, and anyone who might even have the foggiest about what I had to deal with in real life without breaking would split their sides laughing at the prospect of me "breaking" from a virtual event.  I merely decided, with profound regrets, that unless those responsible are gone from the position of power, I'm not going to be part of this forum.  And no, I don't want to discuss it any further either, it was protracted enough in its own sweet time and serves no current purpose.  You know what I said about the possibility of coming back from our private exchanges.  The condition has been met, not by you and not on my behalf, but it came to pass, so I'm back.  So all I ask for now is that you rephrase "break" to "voluntary exile" or "deciding to stay away from the forum" or even "taking an indefinite break" -- for stylistic and factual clarity.  If you don't mind of course.  If you mind, just remove the whole paragraph, please.    

Edited by Taomeow
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2 hours ago, dawei said:

 

 

I don't think you guys still quite get it.  I treated Trump the same as I treated everyone here; they were free to be who they are without the need to hurl curses at someone.   My position was, if someone did something similar on the left and right they are really just doing the same thing.  So I can't much complain about either one.  I don't like false narratives in general either.  

 

For disclosure, I had talked some with Sean when the left leaning posts were getting a bit out of control and was left to decide myself.  I took that to mean, I have to allow right leaning posts to have their ability to expression.   I did ban at least one word and one conspiracy theory but otherwise allowed folks to say in a very private area, what they wanted.   I will agree the tide changed from left to right and likely should of considered the unfair balance of blab going on... but we're simply back to a shift to the left blab in control. 

 

I have no problem with Sean deciding what blab is censored and allowed.  I would of enforced his wish had he stated it.   Without guidance, I let both sides be who they are, within the rules.  

 

 

 

I don't really like to talk about folks if they have left the board cuz they can't speak for themself... Karen was abworkhorse.  Folks don't like to be on staff due to the stress of it.  I managed it and her as well as I could.  There were lots of behind the scenes discussion on 'moderating', believe me.

 

 

I generally agree... and we all likely have lots of opinions, but I simply defer to what Sean wants to do.  I will say, to his credit, he spoke against a growing forum for many years with me... and a 'return' to something simple.   We all saw with his return, he has several thoughts on re-structure and there was not anything I was against really.   I gave advice on what I thought could be consolidated, moved, etc.   I fully expected a very trimmed down forum.   So it was very interesting that very few changes did occur.  I'm not sure if it was people's input saying they kind of liked this or that, etc... and a combination of, let's do a little bit and see what its like later.   I think it was very smart to ask the forum for comments and the tribe decision seemed to generally be heard and play out.

 

I prefer more open and growing forums but that doesn't mean I am against smaller, trimmed down ones.   Once a decision is made, I go with the flow of it.

 

As for Everything.  That is in Sean's hands as he is effectively solo as Judge Dredd (judge, juror, executioner).   I honestly don't see anything wrong with that... BTW: my son was writing me tonight about the movie, so it pops out.   I talked with others about going to a 3 admin system and reducing staff to three equal powers.  I had seen some issues with how staff decisions are made over a long time, and considered this and even talked with Sean about it... in the end, I did not do it.   Now, I think that was a missed chance and may of stopped the off-grid experiment I was willing to test.  

 

I want to also be open about Taomeow.  I need to shoulder her previous 'break' as that was a really odd issue that unfolded.  I don't really want to discuss it nor the reasons I did what I did as everyone will not be satisfied anyways.  But it came down to the staff treatment she felt at the time.   It was basically a lose-lose situation for me.   I will say that I contacted her a few times during her break and she let me know her feelings.   Her openness was appreciated as it helps inform what members feel and go through.   I didn't need to contact her; she didn't need to tell me her thoughts; but spoke, we did.  

 

I definitely don't want to see someone banned unless there is a good cause but accept whatever happens.  I also don't want to see someone walk away from the forum [again] due to how folks participate.   But many walked away in the last months.  

 

 Back to the topic... I think Silent Thunder has some great comments: 

 

1. Report what breaks the rules

2. rule thy self.  Moderate thy self.

3. Stop validating and condoning by responding,

4. Spamming off topic is against the rules.  Report it. 

5. [Original content removed.  Members should start threads within the rules.]

6. As is Ad-hominem.

7. No one is capable of ruining my experience here but me.  Spamming is a minor annoyance, easily remedied by scrolling past responses, or using the ignore function. 

 

I'm not asking Sean to create these rules but I think these are great self-rules.   

 

If I have share information that someone would prefer I remove, let me know.   

 

You are doing nothing but attempting to skirt the real issue here! How many times did I report bigotry in all it's forms and yet your mod crew did nothing to enforce the rules that were written years ago. If I remember correctly the rules were posted at the beginning of the off topic section for all to see and possibly recognize that rules do exist here. E.g. incessant posting of Stephen Molyneux videos whom is an avowed racist/misogynist etc. Or, what about the many references to 4chan by certain members here? Furthermore, references to 4chan and other alt-right groups should be scrutinized and not tolerated here.

 

Words matter and can influence weak minded fools, usually for the worse!

 

Link is posted here to point out the type of racist propaganda that was frequently posted here.

 

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux

Edited by ralis
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2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:


This was done to me in a WMP thread a few months ago, and when it was brought up, the user was full of impunity, while Sean’s response was, “Are you offended?” about my name being used. The thread title was changed, but the main lesson there was that we’re on our own in a dynamic anarchic state that to me means we do what we can ourselves--until it’s a dealbreaker scenario for Sean to step in and eliminate things, like an individual who had the audacity to actually praise Hitler in another thread, leading to his instant dismissal.

 

To me, we are in a state of forum anarchy, and this has actually been a part of my plan to stop pretending things like Everything and his constant spamming are “okay” and actually address them. If it gets everyone’s attention and creates dialogue, fantastic, even though my petition here was an attempt to get action more than attention.
 

At the very least, the people I know reporting this will bring this to Sean’s attention, eventually.
 

I’m willing to be the fall guy now if need be, because it had to be said.

 

You and Zork were complaining about the thread being derailed, and I was told to create a new thread.

 

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

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Just now, MegaMind said:

You and Zork were complaining about the thread being derailed, and I was told to create a new thread.

 

You created a new thread and created the drama there, beginning with tagging my name and making zero apologies for that or any of the behavior already outlined in that thread in spite of changing the thread title after it was pointed out by me.

 

1 minute ago, MegaMind said:

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

 

Damned because you missed the point and began talking about The Topic That Must Not Be Named in the new thread even when I did not even allude to it at all until you kept bringing it up and putting words in my mouth.

 

Do not post here further about that--continue it over there in your original thread if you must, cease and desist here.

 

..."If I say so."

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16 hours ago, dawei said:

For disclosure, I had talked some with Sean when the left leaning posts were getting a bit out of control and was left to decide myself.  I took that to mean, I have to allow right leaning posts to have their ability to expression.   I did ban at least one word and one conspiracy theory but otherwise allowed folks to say in a very private area, what they wanted.   I will agree the tide changed from left to right and likely should of considered the unfair balance of blab going on... but we're simply back to a shift to the left blab in control.

Low-hanging slurs are counterproductive.  But otherwise, censorship doesn't stop opposing views, it just pushes them down like a pressure cooker.  Falsehoods should be openly debunked.  Flawed ideologies should be openly exposed.

 

No reason to ban reasonable dialogue.  Get in the ring and glove up!  Take on your challengers and may the best person win!  Is it even really that hard to debunk the American Right/Left nuts?

 

Like, I've already subsumed and overridden both the "intellectual" alt-right and "Daddy issue" leftists with a greater (ecospiritual vs ET) paradigm that will dominate this forum in 5 years.  DONE! :lol:

Quote

while much of Crusius's manifesto does fall into the stock alt/far-Right camp...he also recognizes universal problems like Americanism and corporatism destroying the environment, automation imperiling jobs, etc. - that have been more popular liberal or indy talking points lately.  So, millennials of different stripes are now seeing some of the same dots...but just lack the unifying ideology to really connect them all.  Which is why these shooters end up in logical non sequiturs of wanting to desperately preserve the same culture that has been most responsible for many of the biggest global problems they are now witnessing, lol!  Because the existing political landscape lacks a super-ideology based upon a greater paradigm that addresses all this coherently...which is what I've been proposing!

Quote

neither the Left nor the Right has the (IQ) answer to this colonialist worldview...which is why they both quickly sweep it under the rug.  The only answer is zooming out even further to realize how colonialism has been the biggest problem on the planet for the last ~600 years...and how that is all really an Annunaki/Reptilian scheme to get humans to terraform the planet into a warmer, technological Matrix more inhabitable for them.

Edited by gendao
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5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Stop feeding a thing and it whithers. 

Arguments are transactional and require two participants to manifest.

This doesn't always work. There are very few examples in this forum but people with an agenda work very differently to this. I have seen one guy in a forum of my native language that insists that the world was created by god according to the old testament about 7500 ago and he keeps saying the same sh*t no matter how much evidence to the contrary he has been given.

I have other examples too. You cannot get rid of these people because they only care to be heard and you to acknowledge they are right. They have no qualms to hijack other threads too if the subject bears ANY similarity to what they talk about.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

 

You and Zork were complaining about the thread being derailed, and I was told to create a new thread.

 

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

So if I told you to jump off a cliff you would do so?

Stop that nonsense rhetoric! Everyone must take full responsibility for his/her own actions!

WTF are you nine or something?

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3 hours ago, Zork said:

This doesn't always work. There are very few examples in this forum but people with an agenda work very differently to this. I have seen one guy in a forum of my native language that insists that the world was created by god according to the old testament about 7500 ago and he keeps saying the same sh*t no matter how much evidence to the contrary he has been given.

I have other examples too. You cannot get rid of these people because they only care to be heard and you to acknowledge they are right. They have no qualms to hijack other threads too if the subject bears ANY similarity to what they talk about.

 

Exactly what I wanted to say if I had time! I have a lot of respect for Silent Thunder but this strategy often does not work in life, and has not been very effective here, either (conversely, Sean taking firm and decisive action in the summer was effective).

 

Speaking of time, I pray for the day we can use ours having actual conversations about Daoism and other topics of interest here, when we do not have to waste precious minutes every day begging agenda-pushing obsessives from flying off into mad tangents every three posts!

 

Everybody, including the body of the Dao Bums, needs an immune system. I'm glad this fever has flared up. I'm glad this fever is in public for all to face and see. May it get rid of the bugs, and not end with the people who have long represented the soul of this place retreating once again. They might not come back--many great cultivators have left this place over the years, not to be seen again. Each time that happens it is a real loss for all curious seekers brought here by a Google link, hoping to find the Dao!

Edited by Walker
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Hadst thou no poison mixed, no sharp-ground knife,
No sudden mean of death, though ne'er so mean,
But 'banished' to kill me--'banished'?
O friar, the damned use that word in hell;
Howling attends it! How hast thou the heart,
Being a divine, a ghostly confessor,
A sin-absolver, and my friend professed,
To mangle me with that word 'banished'?

---William Shakespeare

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25 minutes ago, moment said:

Hadst thou no poison mixed, no sharp-ground knife,
No sudden mean of death, though ne'er so mean,
But 'banished' to kill me--'banished'?
O friar, the damned use that word in hell;
Howling attends it! How hast thou the heart,
Being a divine, a ghostly confessor,
A sin-absolver, and my friend professed,
To mangle me with that word 'banished'?

---William Shakespeare

 

“Fare thee well, king: sith thus thou wilt appear,
Freedom lives hence, and banishment is here.”

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I wonder if this thread, based on current trends, will eventually address all spammers who push idiotic agendas, from New Age mental masturbation to posting the entire contents of their e-book, those who redirect the conversation to be proof of their assumed victimhood of their cabal, or posting about colonialism from aliens...because two of those idiots have already invaded this thread when talking about the titular idiot. 

 

This thread is flypaper, and the flies are hovering around it now...

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