Toni

Similarities among religions

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It is a well known fact that there are several similarities among very different religions. Religions so distant from each other like those of ancient Egipt, Greece, buddhism, christianity, etc, they talk about similar things like a heaven and a hell. If I am not wrong, they all say that the sould is immortal, that those who live well are rewarded in a next life, etc. How do you explain these similarities, as well as others? Do you think there is such a thing as a future life, and that after death we are rewarded depending on our beahoviour?

 

I have always thought that this is a lie, but now I am beginning to wonder if there can be some truth in it. Otherwise it is not logic to think that ALL these religions with all their sages are wrong, and modern materialism with all its faults is right. Also I find it difficult to explain how all these religions could know these kind of things, like the immortality of the soul? How did they know all this? Maybe they could have some kind of superior knowledge that the average man of today can't have

Edited by Toni
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There have been Sages in all cultures, and they have been looking at essentially the same truths. And although we may have our particular path that we particularly resonate with, it is wise to acknowledge that there are many viable ways to enlightenment and liberation. Personally, I enjoy talking to representative of other traditions than my own (Tibetan Buddhism) and to see where we agree with as well as where we diverge from each other - sometimes just to find agreement at the end of the day.

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This doesn't prove anything: some forms of stupidity never die. See for instance:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

 

The illusions of heaven and hell and of the immortality of the soul are in all probability just make-believe. People find it particularly hard to accept that crime often pays and that death is the end. Many religions basically tell the people what they want to hear: that evil people will eventually have to pay for their crimes, and that all our toil on this earth will not come to nothing when we die because we will live on after death in some other form. There is no reason at all to think those religious dogmas are true.

 

Often out-of-body experiences and near-death-experiences are taken to prove the independence of the soul of the body, but when put to the test the amount of proof for the independence of the soul looks rather shallow.    

 

The nice thing about philosophical Taoism is that it doesn't need such religious dogmas.

 

Edited by wandelaar

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22 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

death is the end.

 

If that is true ... the its pretty serious.   It would be logical thenl to invest some time to see if any of these proposed "solutions" to death actually work.   Although it might be completely ludicrous and almost impossible, as there are no other alternatives then it seems intelligent to try some of them.   And if you are to find a lifeboat you have to be certain of it, therefore whatever you try you should try properly with all your effort and not flippantly.

It is also worth noting that many of the greatest scientists were deeply religious, like Galileo, Max Planck, Neils Bohr, Isaac Newton, Leibniz, Marconi, Louis Pasteur, Faraday, Copernicus, Boyle, Heisenberg, Kelvin.
Well it's a very long list of household scientific names that we know because many Laws are named after them.
So perhaps it is worth quite a serious effort then.

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What did Galileo, Max Planck, Neils Bohr, Isaac Newton, Leibniz, Marconi, Louis Pasteur, Faraday, Copernicus, Boyle, Heisenberg, Kelvin add to our knowledge of our existence or non-existence after death?

 

Even highly intelligent people can be dead wrong outside of their field of expertise, and they frequently are.

 

Acceptance of our mortality is the way of the philosophical Taoist. And instead of making life worthless this acceptance rather makes life precious exactly because it is finite

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6 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Your approach is not intelligent.

 

In that case I must be making progress. :D

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If we began without a religious bias, then I don't see much proof of heaven or hell, ie some of the 'Revived' remembering could be due to a brain starved of oxygen.  On the other hand, there is proof of reincarnation.  Particularly children remembering past lives.   There's alot of it and facts have been checked out, in some cases death wounds, seemingly being birthmarks in a few cases. 

 

Course there could be other mechanism involved and the kids usually go on to forget and if you don't remember a past life, how much does it matter? 

 

Back to OP,

I find in there 'Mystic' component, and all religions seem to have one (or several) that there are many similarities between religions.  But once main stream religion gets codified and regimented they need to set themselves as unique and apart.  Thus prophets get information from God and dreams then at the end of the religious book a warning, they were the last, no more dreams or direct communication.. kind of stuff. 

 

 

On the third hand, faith isn't so bad.  Particularly grounded in solid values.  Living life in totally logical 'Spockian' way wouldn't be much fun.  There are things we should believe in, not because they're true, but because they make us better.. give our lives meaning. 

 

Edited by thelerner
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8 hours ago, Toni said:

It is a well known fact that there are several similarities among very different religions. Religions so distant from each other like those of ancient Egipt, Greece, buddhism, christianity, etc, they talk about similar things like a heaven and a hell. If I am not wrong, they all say that the sould is immortal, that those who live well are rewarded in a next life, etc. How do you explain these similarities, as well as others? Do you think there is such a thing as a future life, and that after death we are rewarded depending on our beahoviour?

 

I have always thought that this is a lie, but now I am beginning to wonder if there can be some truth in it. Otherwise it is not logic to think that ALL these religions with all their sages are wrong, and modern materialism with all its faults is right. Also I find it difficult to explain how all these religions could know these kind of things, like the immortality of the soul? How did they know all this? Maybe they could have some kind of superior knowledge that the average man of today can't have

 

Soul means Sun means Solar Gods.

Acharya S. Suns Of God Krishna, Buddha And Christ Unveiled (pdf)"

https://archive.org/stream/AcharyaS.SunsOfGodKrishnaBuddhaAndChristUnveiledpdf/Acharya S. - Suns of God - Krishna%2C Buddha and Christ Unveiled (pdf)_djvu.txt

read that book - good research

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12 hours ago, Toni said:

It is a well known fact that there are several similarities among very different religions. Religions so distant from each other like those of ancient Egipt, Greece, buddhism, christianity, etc, they talk about similar things like a heaven and a hell. If I am not wrong, they all say that the sould is immortal, that those who live well are rewarded in a next life, etc. How do you explain these similarities, as well as others? Do you think there is such a thing as a future life, and that after death we are rewarded depending on our beahoviour?

 

I have always thought that this is a lie, but now I am beginning to wonder if there can be some truth in it. Otherwise it is not logic to think that ALL these religions with all their sages are wrong, and modern materialism with all its faults is right. Also I find it difficult to explain how all these religions could know these kind of things, like the immortality of the soul? How did they know all this? Maybe they could have some kind of superior knowledge that the average man of today can't have

 

I have studied Comparative Religion for years now (starting in the 70s at Sydney Uni ). One thing stands out ; many religions are similar in some areas as all people have some similarities in their psychologies.

 

Like building pyramids all over the world in different cultures ;   they are a good design  of a building that doesnt fall over as easy .

 

We all die  ... we all come up with feelings, reasonings, hopes and fears. and have similar psycho-emotive reactions and hopes about it . So of course, we are going to come up with similar outcomes and beliefs about it .

 

No big mystery really.

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11 hours ago, thelerner said:

On the third hand, faith isn't so bad.  Particularly grounded in solid values.  Living life in totally logical 'Spockian' way wouldn't be much fun.  There are things we should believe in, not because they're true, but because they make us better.. give our lives meaning. 

 

That's exactly why I have given up discussing with believers! Most of them simply don't care about the facts of the matter. Values are never solid, no matter how strong you want to believe they are. Most believers rather choose to live in a world of make-believe than to see the world as it is. They prefer a happy lie above the sober truth. An imagined meaning above an existential realisation of our own insignificance in the greater scheme of things.

 

Quote

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

 

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5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

That's exactly why I have given up discussing with believers! Most of them simply don't care about the facts of the matter. Values are never solid, no matter how strong you want to believe they are. Most believers rather choose to live in a world of make-believe than to see the world as it is. They prefer a happy lie above the sober truth. An imagined meaning above an existential realisation of our own insignificance in the greater scheme of things.

 

 

If I can't do anything about the 'truth', then a happy lie isn't a bad solution, especially if it keeps you sane and well.. happy.   Perhaps, even logically we are biochemical machines that painfully degrade with time then switch off; leading meaningless lives in a meaningless universe.  eh..  There are alternatives to that, which are more hopeful and exciting and I think lead to a more fulfilling life. 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

 

 

“Happy lies” are comfortable and numbing I suppose if that’s all they lead to. But some “happy lies” like organized religion have done much much more damage to the human species as a whole than just giving them an opioid for their situations.

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:28 AM, Toni said:

How do you explain these similarities, as well as others? Do you think there is such a thing as a future life, and that after death we are rewarded depending on our beahoviour?

 

My guess is that in ancient days humans cultivated grain to begin culture as we know it. After settling, early laziness started. With extra time on the advanced monkey's mind, it was able to pursue becoming the chief monkey in the area. Thus bloodshed occurred via slavery and conquering. Balances of power are difficult to abstractly imagine. 

 

The reward of the afterlife may have been a myth, told to him or her by his or her nearest monkeys, to keep the chief monkey from harming other monkeys. The idea being that, sure we cannot restrain or reward you as chief monkey because you will not allow that, so if you do good now as chief monkey, perhaps when you pass on you will be born as chief monkey again, and again, and again.

 

I, personally, take Jesus Christ as my savior. I know I am a dumb monkey, He is my power, my strength, and my eternal life.

 

 

Edited by whitesilk
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On 2/22/2019 at 4:44 PM, Zorro Dantes said:

 

Image result for cree medicine wheel

 

image.jpeg.cd306ba3e557939ae81739ba746bf823.jpeg

 

Related image

 


This is similar thinking i'd say...

 

 

image.png

 

Yes I just did a blog post on this. the key difference is that the Solar religions use the "clockwise" swastika.

So Buddhist is a "reform" religion of the Brahmins - so the left-handed swastika means Kali - and destruction and creation - the counter-clockwise swastika is Kali.

So the counter-clockwise swastika is the Lunar energy that is a reflection or resonance of the Cosmic Mother.

This is what was repressed with the development of the Solar Dynasty Gods.

So the West is based on the clockwise swastika (like the Nazis) and represses and attacks the female lunar energy.

In Daoism and Buddhism the Lunar and Solar energies need to be resonated as complementary opposites for alchemy - this is called Wan or the 10,000 things as BOTH the clockwise and counter-clockwise swastika.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2019/02/james-t-hong-and-form-of-good-doc-film.html

 

 
Quote

 

 In East Asia it has been named the wàn 卐 / 卍 / 萬, meaning 'all things',
 The translation of swastika in Chinese is "ten thousand" (萬), in addition to its phonetic translation. Ten thousands implies perfect. Either or is in use, but mostly . I attribute it to being either created by right handed or left handed person.
Key Wu, 20 October 2016

  佛教萬字

 

 

So you have to go back to around 4000 BCE to find the common origins of the East and West -

8e232bbc6b5eff792f2ec37e6bf7b8df--year-o

 

Yin-yang Taiji with swastikas -

Quote

The Tripoli, Ukrainian civilization is only a drop in the history of the vast East and West. From the large number of unearthed cultural relics in the archaeological community, in the prehistoric civilization more than 7,000 years ago, tens of thousands of years ago, and even longer, East and West The ancient civilizations that emerged have unique feelings for astronomy, the universe, and human life.

and so this goes back to the original human culture - the Lunar energy is just as important as the Solar.

But what we call "religion" emphasizes the Solar over the lunar now (in Brahmin, Zoroastrian, Christian - with the semitic religions still having Lunar influence along with Daoism and Buddhism).

 

 

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1 minute ago, voidisyinyang said:

Related image

 

I do value your input @voidisyinyang, yet would like to add my own. I personally thought of the chart of inner alchemy:

 

6cd2f7bf6bc40adbefa255c397c58c64.jpg

 

There are five yin yang symbols in the lower right of the image, four vertical and one horizontal, which represent a sanguan or barrier against wasted energy. Each individual yin yang supposedly represents an element, earth, air fire, water, and the fifth quintessence.

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On 2/22/2019 at 12:28 PM, Toni said:

Maybe they could have some kind of superior knowledge that the average man of today can't have

 

This thought is very common today, and to hold such a limiting belief really puts us at a disadvantage. 

 

"He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:20

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It is all able to be directly experienced.

 

It has all come from direct experience.

 

None of it was made up.

 

The dogmas are what they are and the institutional religions necessarily degenerate in the noise of unconsciousness - living on only echos of the original enlightened teaching.

 

But not all Religion is dead or dying - some look like both a religion and a practice. 

 

Some are truely a practice - if they become the living of the individual.

They REQUIRE NO belief - but simply faith in taking steps on the Way. One is expected to carry salt and constantly measure the size of one’s head.

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3 hours ago, Spotless said:

But not all Religion is dead or dying - some look like both a religion and a practice. 

 

In time's context, the positive spaces of worship balance the other negative spaces.

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On 2/25/2019 at 3:48 AM, whitesilk said:

 

In time's context, the positive spaces of worship balance the other negative spaces.

It was somewhat unclear what you meant in the above quote but to clarify my use of certain term:

 

By “faith” I simply meant that when one embarks on a Way as a practice - vs a belief in. Religion - that they have done some semblance of research or spoken to someone at length regarding the upsides of such an endeavor. 

 

All true Way’s do not have a downside - other than perceptions of such from the relative viewpoint. As an example True Yoga will benefit one on countless scientifically fully verified levels: increased mental acuity, greater general integration and calm, better hand eye coordination, higher longer attention levels, less stress, better sleep, less sleep, and on and on and on and on.

 

If one has done a considerable amount of home work and then gravitated to a path/Way then one typically has a relatively healthy faith that proceeding reasonably has very little in the way of a fear of wasting one’s time since at any point in time the experiment can be ended and the result will be a net positive.

 

Worship was never a portion of Practice - in fact care was taken (salt) to constantly circumvent assumption and over zealous interpretation. Otherness is also not revered. 

 

Worship and Devotion are not the same thing - though it is a matter of definitions clearly - they could certainly be considered the same.

 

Worship tends to have a more forgiving and complete surrender aspect to the following and teachings of that which is worshipped - in the West It is often relatively extreme in its acceptance of generally absurd aspects casting a very blind eye.

 

Devotion is often more of a general association with divinity and or High Being - often with little real association with the teachings. Devotion does not necessitate one being a devotee.

 

In any case - this is easily argued

but from these definition the idea of Worship is generally not part of many practices but an awareness of higher being - and calling upon it both within and without in the essence of practice and in the essence of reverence is often a great light in the darkness of practice.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Spotless
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Yes east and west are coming together. 

 

West is practicing tolerance. East is letting go of old ways. 

Roles reversed. But making way for union. 

 

The speed of change is astronomical. But I've been aware of it, for a long time. And so, I've been experiencing the change as a fractal. Of eternity. That never ends to meet more fully in the middle. Ongoingly. Evermore. When you think, it's not possible anymore. It just got more meety. Every single fking time. 

 

I like to say all is well. But unfortunately, that's not sufficient. Because all is getting weller. All the time every single time, forever and ever and ever... And ever... 

Edited by Everything
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On 2/22/2019 at 11:26 AM, rideforever said:

 

If that is true ... the its pretty serious.   It would be logical thenl to invest some time to see if any of these proposed "solutions" to death actually work.   Although it might be completely ludicrous and almost impossible, as there are no other alternatives then it seems intelligent to try some of them.   And if you are to find a lifeboat you have to be certain of it, therefore whatever you try you should try properly with all your effort and not flippantly.

It is also worth noting that many of the greatest scientists were deeply religious, like Galileo, Max Planck, Neils Bohr, Isaac Newton, Leibniz, Marconi, Louis Pasteur, Faraday, Copernicus, Boyle, Heisenberg, Kelvin.
Well it's a very long list of household scientific names that we know because many Laws are named after them.
So perhaps it is worth quite a serious effort then.

In my experiences: of psychopomp training death is a regular practice, you can't aid the spirit of someone passed away unless you can get to that plane of existence. You get in, you help the persons spirit body, to raise up out of the grave, give them a shove in the right direction and then you get out.:) 

PS In my opinion many religions seam to point toward a recycling program of sorts with a escape clause providing for those who are prepared to receive a enhanced evolution, and then no more recycling on this physical plane of existence.

Edited by mrpasserby
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2 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

enhanced evolution,

 

It's clear to me that 95% of humans are not individuals, they just repeat the TV just like ants repeat the signals of the anthill.   So what is there in that person that can recycled or reincarnated or survive death ?  Nothing, because there is nobody really there, no individual.   What that person actually is, is a face on the termite mound, or it is a face on the collective.   The collective itself is continuing, and each geneation makes some new faces on the collective.   And that is obviously what most people are.   Doesn't mean they are not nice, but they all say the same thing.
Spirituality deals with people becoming something new, some strange faces on the termite mound get the strange idea that they might become themselves and with a big struggle tear themselves off and become actually individuated.   They when they die they are reborn as themselves.   They own themselves.
So what happens when a person dies ?
Well a collective person dies it is simply the eyes of one face of the termite nest closing, whilst 50 other eyes open, there was never anyone really there, it's just a mass organism.
But for an individuated being who has become something unique, something he made of himself, for him when he closes his eyes, he wakes up and they are still his eyes.   That is what spirituality is about.

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