Phoenix3

What exactly is ‘turning the light around’, in daoist meditation?

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Aetherous said:

it'd be cool if you spelled it out for everyone here.

i wish i could, but it would be unfair to my students. But its not like i hogging it for myself either. Its all in black and white out there, for everyone to read.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

You can’t look for something if you don’t know what it looks like

 

I think in the absence of clear guidance, the best thing one can do with the text is to see which sentences make sense. Only consider those, and don't consider the sentences that aren't clear. It'd be good to comb through the book like this, and make a list of the clear parts.

(If it requires any additional guessing, or interjecting what we think we know, it's not really a clear sentence.)

Edited by Aetherous
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve read different claims on what turning the light around means and few are clear in the translations.

 

I think it’s one of those sorta hermetic things, if someone gives you a teaching on what it is then you use that. It’d be interesting to see the characters for the phrase ans see what could be gleaned from that?

 

If light needs to be turned i’m betting my stake that it’s supposed to turn inwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohhhh...don't bet your stake :huh:  you'd be so lost without it...

 

:P:lol:

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

I think in the absence of clear guidance, the best thing one can do with the text is to see which sentences make sense. Only consider those, and don't consider the sentences that aren't clear. It'd be good to comb through the book like this, and make a list of the clear parts.

(If it requires any additional guessing, or interjecting what we think we know, it's not really a clear sentence.)

with books, its important to read, practice, re-read.  practice, practice, practice, leaving the book aside.  practice some more.  then practice again and again.  then come back to the book and read over those things that werent clear, minding the context.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Voidisyinyang, you can collect a few dozens different studies about the method of turning the light around and ofc they make sense in their speculations. 

 

But without the specific confirmatory experiences described in the text itself, any method is not the one described in the book The Secret of the golden flower. Period. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many good replies in this thread... I have seen the term "回光“ used in a lot of Daoist books from the Song Dynasty till the present and I took a few minutes the other day and did some Ctrl+F'ing around with the digital copies on my computer. It seems to be a term that gets used in numerous different ways by different authors. I didn't have time to do a close reading, but sometimes the meaning seems to be "turn your awareness upon awareness itself." Other times it seems to refer to focusing the mind (and perhaps a visualized light?) upon certain points in the body. Other times I was too lazy to try and figure out what the author might have meant. Anyway, as Rocky suggested, if your teacher uses it in a certain way in a certain context, that's what it probably means; as Joe suggested with reading, read, read, practice, practice, read, and mind the context!

 

Looking at the term from another angle, it is (and many other Daoist terms are) kinda like "grounding yourself" is in English. Sometimes somebody says "ground yourself," and they mean, "stop thinking so damn much." Sometimes they mean go walk around barefoot because that's supposed to be good for your health, and some people call that grounding. Both are valid practices, both will bring you benefit, and hell, you could do both at the same time. But still, pretty different ideas. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018/7/17 at 2:42 AM, Phoenix3 said:

I’ve read a few books which mention this, and ‘turning the light around’ seems to be a fancy way of saying to meditate on emptiness with the eyes closed.

 

Am I correct?

 

Also, once one’s eyes are opened, does the ‘turning the light around’ suddenly cease?

 

Ialways see light when I am meditation. For so many years, seeing light is one part of my life. I see light everyday.

You are not sure about the situation on seeing light.

If you can see light by yourself, you can do experiment to prove your ideas. You can read my space to understand how to see light. If you still have problems, you can ask in my space.

My English is not good. IF you don't understand what I said. You can ask.

 

Seeing light is easy. You don't need any method to turn the light. What you have to do is just turn your attention back to you. From your body, your chi, your thoughts, your light......, all these will appear by themselves. You just need to turn your attention back and stay at somewhere. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, awaken said:

Ialways see light when I am meditation. For so many years, seeing light is one part of my life. I see light everyday.

 

Hi awaken,

 

Could you please describe the light you see in your vision? (Perhaps it is spiritual, perhaps it is just cataracts? It’ll be interesting to hear a bit more about it). Would you say it is like a circle of light in your vision, or is it like your entire field of vision gets brighter?

 

thank you

Edited by Phoenix3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone can answer, does the action of ‘turning the light around’ result in actually seeing a change in the vision, like it is described above? Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, joeblast said:

it isnt the eyes that see it

 

See what though? Do you know what this mysterious illumination looks like? Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

See what though? Do you know what this mysterious illumination looks like? Thank you!

 

The true light is “clear” and not something you really see. It is more a “knowing”. As an example, if you see “auras” you are not really seeing them, but more your mind is translating the underlying deep knowing into something your mind can understand. With clear light you would just know and not translate it into colors or something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

One last thing, is this clear light experienced from cultivating Xing or Ming? 

 

I’m assuming Xing, because it sounds like a nimitta (or it could be an obhasa), but i’m not sure.

Edited by Phoenix3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Does the golden flower book mention anything about the light being clear?

 

Not to my knowledge. I do wonder why would one call a clear light, ‘light’? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have just been trying this practice using the idea presented by this man, at about 12:35 onwards.   Use youtube-subtitles to read the translation.
 

 

 

The practice seems quite clear to me.   Sitting in meditation, with eyes open, you look forward pushing your attention out into the world of objects, but then you reverse the flow ... you can slightly roll the head back as your intention is for the light to flow back into the area between the eyes, also have the feeling of sucking.  It's important to not force these things but in the beginning it can be useful.

I would aim to "fill" the area from the front of the skin of the face to about 1" deep with the "energy".

 

The effect of this practice is to open the inner space, the inner presence, the inner void.   As the energy fills this area up it becomes navigable with consciousness and presence.   You can "be" in there.

 

After some time of doing this, the inner space is opened, and the presence is felt.

 

Next step is as you gently feel this area, recognize that your identity is there .... it is not like feeling a rock, it is not like feeling a toenail, this part of the body between the eyes has identity.   Then, you gently "merge" with this presence.   It is a sensitive thing, and then feeling is of an eye waking up, or an identity waking up.   It is as if you are in there, like a "little man is awake and inside there" (metaphor).

 

What does merging mean, well try some different things you will get the message.  First have the intention to merge who you are now with the identity presence there, to become that, and slowly enter-merge with that space.

 

It is quite strong between the eyes but probably better to try about 1" further up at the mid-eyebrow point, I believe the identity is more strongly felt there.  It's a possibility.

 

 

 

Edited by rideforever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2018 at 2:49 AM, Jeff said:

"being" one with all.

 

Approaching the Tao - whatever is The One?

Edited by Limahong
Enhance ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 3:43 AM, Aetherous said:

how to practice it correctly in order to understand what the words mean.

 

... or do not mean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 4:08 AM, joeblast said:

imagine a movie of the sun, with its rays shining outward

imagine that movie played backwards, with the rays returning to the sun

 

Hi joeblast,

 

I have an inkling that your movie is linked to this from dawei...

 

On 8/1/2018 at 8:36 AM, dawei said:

What do you make of Not-Two... and then Not-One ?

maybe just a reverse sequence... but of what ?

 

- LimA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 5:52 AM, Aetherous said:

I think there are a lot of little hints hidden in there that point us away from the incorrect practice and toward the right practice

 

Yes - on each of our own road less traveled.

Sometimes painfully - but honestly at all times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 7:44 AM, steve said:

Turning that light around means to focus our awareness and attention inward.

 

Yes steve -it is important that I am at peace with myself ~ to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 11:47 AM, Taoist Texts said:

"err by an inch in the beginning-miss by a mile in the end".

 

Miss The One (whatever it is) - and I will miss more than one, one hundred, one thousand, one million...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 4:15 PM, rideforever said:

Which awakens and stabilises your personal identity.

 

Through reflections?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites