Phoenix3

What exactly is ‘turning the light around’, in daoist meditation?

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Just now, rideforever said:

 

Cool, sounds like very interesting practice.

I am personally just interested in the GF.

yeah I just quoted the GF section on turning the light around and explained what it means. The reason Westerners do not understand the Golden Flower text is because the yin-yang energy dynamics are assumed in the practice - they are "embedded" and hidden. So Westerners have been brainwashed since Plato to think that the eyes are a symmetric "set of two" as "twoness" - and hence do not understand that "pointed concentration" means to unite the Sun and Moon - through the small universe meditation as alchemy.

 

So you say you are "only interested" in (your Western projection) onto the Golden Flower. Have fun with that. There is a secret meaning to the Golden Flower based in Daoist alchemy of yin-yang energy channels of the eyes.

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12 hours ago, rideforever said:

What are the ACTUAL instructions ?   

Unclear instructions come from unclear people.   

 

"Lower the eyelids and establish a point of reference" .... means what ?   Point of reference on my ass ?   Why do I need to lower my eyelids ?

 

I agree, it seems very hard to make sense of this text without a teacher who could elucidate it. I also agree that the instruction in part has something to do with the eyes.

From what little I know, the subject matter it deals with is usually sworn to secrecy in all cultures.

In this thread, there are so many of what I would consider false interpretations...but hey, that's just me and it's not like I'm able to understand this text fully, either.

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I am by the way not western.  I am also quite bored by all the total bullshit in these kind of texts and you can take the Lotus Sutra as well which is 99% BS.   Don't these guys ever shut the f up and get down to it.  Oh the heavenly dragon golden thread million billion eon - shut up.

 

The Heart in the goddam Golden Flower is between the eyes he says that in Chapter 1, along with the fact that this method is all you need, that Heaven that we are all trying to get to is in The Heart between the eyes, and that the technique requires only the Turning the Light around.    Okay, wtf does that mean ... eyes see out don't they, they see the light out there, well what does turning the light around mean then ?   Reverse the flow.   Easy.   What else could it mean ?  Making a sandwich ?   Walking your lama ?

 

Then there is some stuff about collecting thoughts .... thoughts come from around there don't they in the forehead.

 

Then there are some more pargraphs .... it's the supreme ultimate, really really supreme and I'm not just saying that, if you get this supreme you will feel it is more supreme then Beyonce ass ... goes on like that until the end of the book.   

Yes - we get the message!  Yes it's really good.

 

 

 

 

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OK let's break this down - piece by piece.

 

What does "pointed concentration" mean?

Well the book Taoist Yoga explains for us.

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

enter "pointed concentration" as search

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After the immortal seed has returned to its source in the lower abdomen, a pointed concentration on it will, in time, cause a golden light to appear in the white light between the eyebrows.

and

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This is the embryo of the immortal seed produced by the union of the generative force, vitality and spirit into one whole. These two lights are like the male and female organs of a flower, the union of which will bear fruit.

and

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The method should begin when the penis erects at night and consists of blocking the genital gate with pointed concentration in order to drive spirit into the cavity of vitality (under the navel). This is like a blacksmith using his bellows; the air from it blows the inner fire which, becoming intense, transmutes the generative force into vitality. The latter is then gathered and sent up and down in the microcosmic orbit.

and

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closed my eyes to make pointed concentration to kindle the slow fire in order to lower the (vital) breath in my heart to stabilise my spirit and intellect.

but wait! We're not done yet!

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After rolling his eyes, he should close them and as his mouth is now full of golden nectar, he should make pointed concentration on the vitality which he has just circulated (as above), driving it down (the jen mo or channel of function), followed by the golden nectar, into the cavity of vitality (below the navel). This is returning vitality to the cauldron to seal it there.

and

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the source of foetal breath, by drawing the pupils of the eyes close to each other in order to bring the cavity of vitality into focus and by using the bellows to bring quick fire into action; as a result of pointed concentration a mass of true inner fire will soar up causing spiritual light in the cauldron to illuminate the whole body the four elements of which (see note 3 on page 41) are thereby sublimated.

We're getting closer but not quite there yet!!

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he should make pointed concentration to take hold of the black object firmly, breathe in fresh air to drive it into the lower tan t’ien (under the navel) and breathe out slowly to expel the inner evil fire whiqh will then vanish; he will then feel truly at ease.

and

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raise the tongue to the palate, make pointed concentration to shrink the genital organ, drive the breath in and out of the nostrils and roll the eyes up and down in order to block the duct that discharges the generative force,

and

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The master P’eng Mou Chang said: ‘The method of producing the immortal seed consists of “uniting” the heart with the eyes for pointed concentration on the lower abdomen so that if vibration is felt there, vitality can be immediately circulated (in the microcosmic orbit) for purification, but the slightest carelessness on the part of the practiser can cause it to drain away thereby nullifying all previous progress.

I know - you're maybe getting "bored" As a Westerner - but please be patient! We're not done yet and we are getting closer to what Pointed concentration really means!

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After the ‘spiritual gem* has returned to its source (in the lower abdomen) a pointed concentration on it will, in time, cause a golden light to appear in the white light between the eyebrows. This is the embryo of the immortal seed produced by the union of the generative force, vitality and spirit into one whole. When the body is full of it within, light will manifest without. These white and golden lights are like the positive and negative ends of an electric wire; and the union of generative force, vitality and spirit is like the current without which there is no light. In the same way if the two lights have not mingled within there will be no illumination without.

getting very close! Let's get more details:

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Their union is caused by having mingled the five (vital) breaths (see below) into one vitality to nurture the immortal seed in the lower abdomen. Without the intermingling of these five breaths the golden light will not manifest. These breaths come from the vitality in the lower tan t’ien cavity (beneath the navel) from which they spread to the five viscera:

ok let's now "review" -

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the pupils of both eyes should be drawn close to each other for pointed concentration on the great emptiness so that in the condition of utter stillness the vital principle returns automatically to its source {under the navel), breathing continues normally and so is self-regulated, and the (vital) breath is brought under perfect control.

and this?

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Cold storage technique: Consists of driving the light of positive spirit manifesting in the brain into the lower abdomen with pointed concentration on vitality there until it vibrates. The practiser should then imagine that this vitality goes up and down in the thrusting channel between the heart and the lower abdomen until all of a sudden it slips into the lower tan t’ien; this is called entry into the cavity within a cavity and is actual reentry into the foetus for further creativity.

So what is the "light of positive spirit"? Well it depends - if the Yang shen still has yin qi in it then the yin qi creates red light as an impurity in the gold light. Hence the need for more meditation.

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Sun and moon, The union of the: When the pupils of both eyes are drawn close to each other in a squint for pointed concentration so that the heart (fire) and lower abdomen (water) are linked for the production of prenatal vitality.

So next we will have to consider what the "sun and moon" means in relation to "both eyes" - for the production of Yuan Qi. Right? Is that a fair question? I think so.

 

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So now we've determined that Sun and Moon refer to the two eyes.

Is that a fair Daoist alchemy generalization applicable to more than one Daoist alchemy book? Yes I think so.

Now let's search Sun and moon and see what we find.

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Sun and moon: The two eyes.

ok that's a start.

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Sun and moon, The union of the: When the pupils of both eyes are drawn close to each other in a squint for pointed concentration so that the heart (fire) and lower abdomen (water) are linked for the production of prenatal vitality.

So this is a review for now - but what does it "really mean"?

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The sun stands for the heart and the moon for the lower tan t’ien cavity (under the navel), respectively symbolised by the dragon (the female or negative vitality) and the tiger (the male or positive vitality). When oneness of heaven and earth is achieved and the lights of the sun and moon mingle in front of the original cavity of spirit (tsu ch’iao in the centre of the brain between and behind the eyes) this is the macrocosmic alchemical agent of One Reality. This is the place (between and behind the eyes) where the generative force, vitality and spirit unite, where heart and intellect are void and where there is neither the self nor others.

Hold on! Now the Sun is the Heart and the Moon is the Lower tan t'ien - but it just said the Sun and Moon were the two eyes!

The plot thickens...

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‘The generative force and vitality are inseparable. Only a good understanding of the union of sun and moon can lead to real achievement.’

Exactly - only a "good understanding"!! So please let's devote a bit of time to this - shall we?

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The male element of metal is the sun and the female element of wood is the moon. After a man has fallen into the postnatal state (i.e. has been born), he loses the power of concentration; this is why his sun and moon do not unite.

Oh - so Metal is the Sun and Wood is the Moon.

So now we have heart is  Sun, Metal is Sun, and Wood is Moon, Lower tan t'ien is Moon - and the Eyes are Sun and Moon.

Now things are quite complicated aren't they?

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The immersion of fire in water causes their ‘copulation* and the resultant condition is called 'fire and water in stable equilibrium ’ (shui huo chi chi). If the outer sun and moon do not mingle their lights the inner water and fire do not ‘copulate’ and prenatal true vitality cannot manifest. If they are left to themselves to follow their postnatal course the element of fire will remain dry and that of water will continue wet, with the former soaring up and the latter going down, both running in opposite directions.

So the "outer sun and moon" lights have to "mingle" - how is that possible? With the eyes open the lights of each eyes do not "mingle" do they?

And then the inner water and fire do not copulate unless the eyes mingles - the light of the eyes....

This is getting quite interesting! ... So heart and lower tan t'ien - do not "mix" unless the outer lights of the eyes mix.

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Hsu Ching Yang said: ‘If the macrocosmic elixir of immortality is not produced by intermingling the lights of the sun and moon, and the union of heaven with earth, what can make it?’ This is the wonderful union of the elements of metal and wood.

OK now we are moving into metal and wood. We know this is yang qi and yin qi right? We can confirm this if needed - but let's try to stay "on topic" of turning the light around...

So by turning the light around we ahve to "intermingle" the outer lights of the eyes as the sun and the moon and this then causes the union of the metal and wood.

This raises the question - are Metal and wood associated with the eyes as well?

Trick question - I know.

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Sun: The left eye which stands for the positive yang; it also stands for the heart.

Let's keep searching "left eye" ...

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west of the sun (the left eye) and east of the moon (the right eye).

wait - I think I feel a big surprise coming!

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The left eye stands for the East whose element is wood and the right eye for the West whose element is metal. The element of wood turns westward to unite with the element of metal and the latter turns eastward to mingle with the former. This is the union of both elements causing the (vital) breath in the brain and the psychic strength to develop, expand and unite into one whole reaching the core of the brain where it transmutes the (microcosmic) outer alchemical agent (already gathered there) into life-preserving true vitality;

OK so now we have the left eye as wood which is yin qi but the left eye is also the Sun as positive yang (outer light).

The right eye is metal as  yang qi but is moon as yin shen.

So the sun and Moon are internal - by turning them around the yang and yin qi mix and mingle with the Jing - to create more Yuan Qi.The jing being the "outer alchemical agent."

Fascinating and quite practical training based on psychophysiology - not so much "ideas" is it?

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‘After gathering the alchemical agent to make good the loss of generative force, a fascinating white light will appear in both eyes’ which means the joining up of the sun (the left eye or the male principle) with the moon (the right eye or female principle); only then can both eyes be concentrated on the lower abdomen in which a white light is imagined as manifesting. After looking into the lower tan t’ien for several tens of days suddenly a sound will be heard, followed by the ascent of real vitality from the lower belly to the heart (the house of fire) where it stays still, thence going down to return to the lower tan t’ien.

So now only AFTER the white light manifests that is seen externally - can it then be sent "down" into the lower tan t'ien and also then the ambrosia goes down and makes sounds in the lower tan t'ien....

And from there the golden light can begin to develop after this process continues.

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10 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

pointed concentration means the left and right eye have to rotate so that the yin qi and yang qi combine - thereby the yang shen and yin shen. You should feel the pineal gland activating the lower tan t'ien. Then you bring the qi and shen down to the lower tan t'ien - to transform the jing into qi.

Only Quick Fire breathing has the power to sublimate the jing or water above the fire. So just relying on bring the Shen or positive fire down will not be real alchemy - unless your jing is full and the heart pure.

 

10 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

You seem to be referring to a different practice.   Is any of this stuff in the GF ?   Quick fire breathing isn't, is it ?   Rotating the eyes, that's not in there either - sounds painful.   Have no idea what you are doing when you say yinqi yangqi combine.   Pineal gland hmmm sounds new age,    In fact the Pineal is in the centre of the brain, and the GF mentions a region between the eyes, and doesn't it mention the eybrow centre ?   Anyway doesn't appear to be the Pineal does it.   Different loctaon.   
Maybe you have your own practice and are trying to translate GF into that even if it doesn't fit ????

Master Wang Li Ping teaches the fire breathing method, it is foundational. 

The region between the eyes is not Niwan, in the center of the cranium, it is the central orifice, (the square inch in the square foot).  This is a gateway, or portal of shen in and out of the body.

 

Master Wang recommends the Secret of the Golden Flower at his retreats, specifically the version translated by Richard Wilhelm.

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2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

Master Wang Li Ping teaches the fire breathing method, it is foundational. 

The region between the eyes is not Niwan, in the center of the cranium, it is the central orifice, (the square inch in the square foot).  This is a gateway, or portal of shen in and out of the body.

 

Master Wang recommends the Secret of the Golden Flower at his retreats, specifically the version translated by Richard Wilhelm.

yes and what is the quote from Master Wang about not opening the eyes when someone touches you, a teacher touches you to send energy into you - because  by opening the eyes then the liver energy will get lost?

Quote

When he wakes up and opens his eyes, spirit returns to his organ of sight thereby disengaging the heart from the lower ab- domen which will not reunite even if he starves for a week. Why? Because of the exhaustion of prenatal vitality whose source of supply has been cut off. This man will thus lose the means to preserve life.

 

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Master Wang's teaching contradicts what is in Chapter 1 of the book.   
So you choose.
For me, I read the GF and I do what it says, and I am not particularly interested in the priests who arrive later and have a better version.
As the author of the GF says, it's easy and it's right, it's what you want.
The practice depends only on the turning of the light around at the eyes (not the pineal gland) but at the front of the head, and if you do it for 100 days you go to heaven.

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2 hours ago, rideforever said:

eyes see out don't they, they see the light out there

 

I have an inkling that externally observable light (such as the sun, moon, stars, artificial bulbs, etc) isn't the light being discussed here.

But it is an interesting and sensible interpretation of the book to think it means turning the attention away from external observation. I just don't think that's really the method, even if that is an effect of it.

Edited by Aetherous
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1 minute ago, Aetherous said:

But it is an interesting and sensible interpretation of the book to think it means turning the attention away from external observation. I just don't think that's really the method, even if that is an effect of it.

 

 The Light of Heaven cannot be seen.
It is contained in the two eyes. 

The work on the circulation of the Light depends
entirely on the backward-flowing movement, so that the
thoughts are gathered together (the place of Heavenly
Consciousness, the Heavenly Heart). The Heavenly
Heart lies between sun and moon (i.e. the two eyes).


The Book of the Yellow Castle says : In the field

of the square inch of the house of the square foot, life
can be regulated. The house of the square foot is the
face. The field of the square inch in the face: what
could that be other than the Heavenly Heart ? 


Therefore you only have to make the Light circulate :
that is the deepest and most wonderful secret. 

 If it is allowed to go long enough in a circle, then it crystallizes itself: that
is the natural spirit-body. In carrying out this fundamental truth you need to
seek for no other methods, 


After a man has the one tone of individuation (9)
behind him, he will be bom outward according to the
circumstances, and not until he is old will he turn a single
time to the backward-flowing way, vThe force of the
Light exhausts itself and trickles away. 


In the book of the Secret Correspondences (11), it is
said : Release is in the eye. In the Simple Questions
of the Yellow Ruler (12) it is said: The seed-blossom
of the human body must be concentrated upward in
the empty space.  To concentrate the seed-

flower of the human body above in the eyes, that is
the great key of the human body. 

 

What is really meant by this? The expression ,
" end of the nose, "  is very cleverly chosen. The nose
must serve the eyes as a guiding line.   If one is not
guided by the nose, either one opens wide the eyes and
looks into the distance, so that the nose is not seen,
or the lids shut too much, so that the eyes close, and
again the nose is not seen. But when the eyes are opened
too wide, one makes the mistake of directing them out-
ward, whereby one is easily distracted. If they are closed
too much, then one makes the mistake of letting them
turn inward, whereby one easily sinks into a dreamy
reverie.

 

Only when the eyelids are sunk properly half-
way, is the end of the nose seen in just the right way.
Therefore it is taken as a guiding line. The main thing is
to lower the eye-lids in the right way, and then to allow
the Light to stream in of itself, without trying to force
the Light to stream in by a concentrated effort.

 

Looking
at the nose serves only as the beginning of the inner
concentration, so that the eyes are brought into the right
direction for looking, and then are held to the guiding
line : after that, one can let it be. That is the way a mason
hangs up a plumb-line. As soon as he has hung it up,
he guides his work by it without continually bothering
himself to look at the plumb-line.

 

qed

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2 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

Hi.  I trust that you are giving a very well studied description of the practices you have learnt, and they may have tremendous merit.

 

However they do not seem to be linked the GF, as the author himself says in the text (see above) there is no need for any other technique.   In fact his whole message is that he has found the gold and that you can get to heaven in 100 days with it.   He goes to quite some lengths to say have the eyelids just a little open, aim from the nose, and let the light trickle in and concentrate there.   So I am not sure who Mr Wang is but .... I would try the GF method on its own, if you like it.

I think if all the BS was not included in these texts there would be less confusion.

Edited by rideforever

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20 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

Hi.  I trust that you are giving a very well studied description of the practices you have learnt, and they may have tremendous merit.

 

However they do not seem to be linked the GF, as the author himself says in the text (see above) there is no need for any other technique.   In fact his whole message is that he has found the gold and that you can get to heaven in 100 days with it.   He goes to quite some lengths to say have the eyelids just a little open, aim from the nose, and let the light trickle in and concentrate there.   So I am not sure who Mr Wang is but .... I would try the GF method on its own, if you like it.

I think if all the BS was not included in these texts there would be less confusion.

https://twin.sci-hub.tw/6519/ddbb26a54d5990da4f60ccde96c660f2/10.2307@44160396.pdf#view=FitH

Quote

What are the three lights? They are the Sun and the Moon (left and right kidneys) and the dipper situated between them...Circulate the Sun and Moon of the body and make it penetrate into the head and redescend into the five viscera....This is the method of the scripture of the Yellow Court.

Here is the source text for the Golden Flower book. It is the Book of the Yellow Court. Read that and it corroborates the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortal book as well.

 

Quote

. Lü Dongbin (吕洞宾), a historical figure, that is also honored in Chinese folklore as a Deity/Immortal, had integrated the material from The Yellow Court Classic into his own practice and referenced some parts in his scripture: The Secret of the Golden Flower, that has been later translated by Thomas Cleary (sinologist) and Richard Wilhelm and commented by Carl Jung.

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Yellow-Court-Classic

Edited by voidisyinyang

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7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

It is the Book of the Yellow Court.


Good luck to anyone trying to comprehend that one.

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6 hours ago, Aetherous said:


Good luck to anyone trying to comprehend that one.

If you combine it with Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality, a book that also discusses the golden light and golden flower - it makes sense to me.

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

  Quote

For the cultivation of nature alone ensures only the descent of positive fire without the ascent of (vital) breath from below, the result will be that nature and life cannot unite. Therefore, you should gather fire to lift up the (vital) breath below.

The light 
of the eyes directed downward is positive....Only the eyes are positive whereas the rest of the body is 
negative.

  So what this means is the light of the eyes directed downward is ALSO the light of the two eyes combined - the left eye is yang shen (yin qi), the right eye is yin shen (yang qi)- combine the two and you get the positive principle as Heaven from the yuan qi.

Edited by voidisyinyang

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On 15/08/2018 at 3:26 AM, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

The SGF is aimed at providing simple rapid instructions for enlightenment which is to be found in the Heaven between the eyes.

 

What are your practices about ?   My guess is that you wish for some massive energetic expansion, or complex practices, and that you don't sense the virtue of simplicity.

 

The SGF is very interesting in that it gives reasonably solid technical instructions.   That you can actually follow.

 

I don't know why you don't ?   But maybe you want something else.

 

I don't you are clarifying the SGF you are adding quite complex stuff to it.

 

The author of SGF says that it's simple and do the simple practice for 100 days and you are there ....  probably worth doing, isn't it ?

 

Anyone who "got" the SGF is not going to write another book.   It is only people who don't get the SGF that will then go on to write more books.   

 

The thing about simple practices is that it requires you to "wake up".   If you don't want to wake up then you can construe a million different exotic technical arduous endless practices.

 

And I am saying all of the above because I believe it works, from my own practice.

 

 

Edited by rideforever
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On 2018/8/4 at 7:40 AM, Phoenix3 said:

 

Hi awaken,

 

Could you please describe the light you see in your vision? (Perhaps it is spiritual, perhaps it is just cataracts? It’ll be interesting to hear a bit more about it). Would you say it is like a circle of light in your vision, or is it like your entire field of vision gets brighter?

 

thank you

I tried to paint some pictures in my space. You can find them in my space.

I have many students. Most of them can see light. It is very easy to see light unless you can't find the right way to practice.

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Most of people focus on the feeling of body. They like to focus on the feeling of chi. This way will make them not to see light. Because the light and the chi have the same source. If you force yourself to focus on the feeling of chi. This way will make the energy stay in your body.

 

If you want to know what is light in your insight version, you must relax. You should not force your self to focus on the feeling of chi. 

 

What you have to do is relax. Let everything happen by itself.

Edited by awaken
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24 minutes ago, awaken said:

I tried to paint some pictures in my space. You can find them in my space.

I have many students. Most of them can see light. It is very easy to see light unless you can't find the right way to practice.

 

How many students of yours have eyesight problems (myopia, etc..) ?

 

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15 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

How many students of yours have eyesight problems (myopia, etc..) ?

 

 

Why don't you ask my students by yourself?

 

They are in QQ, a Chinese app.

 

Group ID:159754069

 

 

 

 

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Well, i dont see how saying all them texts there are total bullshit makes them any clearer.

 

@rideforever as much as i consider you a bigoted choleric weirdo with immensly troubling views on humanity and our universe i have a tip because i think these practices could do worlds of relief and benefit for you.

Get one of the translation of ”Cultivating The Dao” that Liu Yi-Ming wrote, he pretty much spells stuff out clearly. I think F. Pregadio wrote the one i have, it’s in the bookcase and i cant be arsed to go get it, google the thing, Amazon probably still sells the hardcopy.

It’s not very confusing and there are plain explanations of terms and what they signify or reference. The translation is well arranged. He’s done a lot of work for us, the only thing we need to do is to follow the steps in studying the foundation (aka Setting Up the Tripod i think), later Gathering the materials, after that Firing it and so forth.

Decibelles thread regarding 400 Words on the Golden Flower gives you a ton of clues and confirmations when you’ve begun digesting Lius work.

 

Never mind your eyes or tilting the head or that fancy stuff.

Sit, close those lids, breathe and stay relaxed. Dont think, dont form words, dont imagine no light going anywhere, like Awaken says dont focus on the sensation of qi, leave that to do its own thing.

There is no magic to it. You wont learn to levitate as a byproduct of sitting in stillness and alchemically developing the elixir. I cant say what it does afterwards but the simplicity of the method is only surpassed by how challenging it is to realize. Frustration will grow and ebb along with much else. There is no learning or theory to extract and understand, there is only realing the benefits of such a practice and putting it to good, compassionate use.

 

There is no moral to extract, no right and wrong of external essentialism and there will be no enmity left in you when the work is complete. I wish you good luck and speedy results mate.

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Would you guys mind describing how you practice the Golden Flower meditation?  How you sit, breath.. put your attention and for how long?  Getting away from philosophy and the book, into how you perform it.

If you already wrote it up, could you link to it?

Thanks

 

 

For example, this is what I do, influenced by GF,  but probably not GF itself.

During seated meditation, I'll relax, count my breaths 1-10, repeat til breath and mind quiet (not GF, but a pre-meditation set).  Then breath in through 3rd eye for half of in breath, then send it down, tip of nose, throat, heart, solar plex, lower dantien.  Then hold my attention there for there through the out breath, repeat. 

Little things, sometimes I'll an inner sound, like a hahhh as my attention moves past my heart.  I keep my hands against my lower dantien. 

After 10 or 15 minutes I'll breath as quietly as I can, for 10 minutes or so, then give that up for just sitting.

 

Edited by thelerner
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6 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Would you guys mind describing how you practice the Golden Flower meditation?  How you sit, breath.. put your attention and for how long?  Getting away from philosophy and the book, into how you perform it.

If you already wrote it up, could you link to it?

Thanks

 

It's in Rocky Lionmouth's post above:

"Never mind your eyes or tilting the head or that fancy stuff.

Sit, close those lids, breathe and stay relaxed. Dont think, dont form words, dont imagine no light going anywhere, like Awaken says dont focus on the sensation of qi, leave that to do its own thing".

Edited by lifeforce
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3 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Well, i dont see how saying all them texts there are total bullshit makes them any clearer.

 

@rideforever as much as i consider you a bigoted choleric weirdo with immensly troubling views on humanity and our universe i have a tip because i think these practices could do worlds of relief and benefit for you.

Get one of the translation of ”Cultivating The Dao” that Liu Yi-Ming wrote, he pretty much spells stuff out clearly. I think F. Pregadio wrote the one i have, it’s in the bookcase and i cant be arsed to go get it, google the thing, Amazon probably still sells the hardcopy.

It’s not very confusing and there are plain explanations of terms and what they signify or reference. The translation is well arranged. He’s done a lot of work for us, the only thing we need to do is to follow the steps in studying the foundation (aka Setting Up the Tripod i think), later Gathering the materials, after that Firing it and so forth.

Decibelles thread regarding 400 Words on the Golden Flower gives you a ton of clues and confirmations when you’ve begun digesting Lius work.

 

Never mind your eyes or tilting the head or that fancy stuff.

Sit, close those lids, breathe and stay relaxed. Dont think, dont form words, dont imagine no light going anywhere, like Awaken says dont focus on the sensation of qi, leave that to do its own thing.

There is no magic to it. You wont learn to levitate as a byproduct of sitting in stillness and alchemically developing the elixir. I cant say what it does afterwards but the simplicity of the method is only surpassed by how challenging it is to realize. Frustration will grow and ebb along with much else. There is no learning or theory to extract and understand, there is only realing the benefits of such a practice and putting it to good, compassionate use.

 

There is no moral to extract, no right and wrong of external essentialism and there will be no enmity left in you when the work is complete. I wish you good luck and speedy results mate.

 

This is it.

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