exorcist_1699

Jing of Tranquility ( 清淨經)

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Jing of Tranquility , another important piece of Taoism , seems never be translated into English ( If I am wrong, please tell me ) before . Written by an anonymous author around 1,700 years ago , it is also a rare , unique piece of works deliberately talks about the relation between emptiness and tranquility . Most people like to boast of how heat , light and sounds appear in their practice as proofs of their achievement, yet seldom do they raise how quiet a status they can attain ,even under very noisy environment ...

 
  老君曰:大道無形,生育天地;大道無情,運行日月;大道無名,長養萬物。吾不知其名,強名曰道。 

夫道者,有清有濁,有動有靜。天清地濁,天動地靜;男清女濁,男動女靜。降本流末,而生萬物。清者濁之源,動者靜之基。人能常清靜,天地悉皆歸。

  夫人神好清,而心擾之;人心好靜,而欲牽之。常能遣其欲,而心自靜;澄其心,而神自清。
自然六欲不生,三毒消滅。所以不能者,爲心未澄,欲未遣也。能遣之者,内觀其心,心無其心;外觀其形,形無其形;遠觀其物,物無其物。三者既無,唯見於空。

  觀空亦空,空無所空。所空既無,無無亦無。無無既無,湛然常寂。寂無所寂,欲豈能生。欲既不生,即是真靜。真常應物,真常得性。常應常靜,常清靜矣!

  如此清靜,漸入真道。既入真道,名爲得道。雖名得道,實無所得。爲化眾生,名爲得道。能悟之者,可傳聖道。

  老君曰:上士無爭,下士好爭。上德不德,下德執德。執着之者,不明道德。 眾生所以不得真道者,爲有妄心。既有妄心,即驚其神。既驚其神,即着萬物。既着萬物,即生貪求。既生貪求,即是煩惱。煩惱妄想,憂苦身心,便遭濁辱,流浪生死,常沉苦海,永失真道。

Translation:


Laotze said: Tao is formless , it gives birth to this world; Tao is emotionless, it lets the moon and sun move; Tao is nameless, it nourishes everything everlastingly; I don't know how to call it, so I reluctantly name it Tao;

Inside Tao ,something is pure and something is impure , something is active and something is passive . The heaven is pure, the earth is impure.The heaven moves, the earth stays constant .Man is pure, woman is impure. Man is active, woman is passive; going to the base, it is these elements give rise to all other things.

Purity is the source of impurities. Acton is the basis for stability. If people can stick to purity and calmness , all things are available to them ;although our shen like purity, our mind pollute it; although our mind like calmness,our desires disturb it ;if we can get rid of those desires , then our mind can calm down ; if we can clean our minds, then our shen can purify itself; in that case, no emotions and desires can affect us. In fact, it is because of our incapable of getting rid of those desires and greediness that makes us impure.

People who can do that, when looking inwards, will find their mind mindless , see their body shapeless , view other things in a distant formless; and if we see no mind, no body and nothing around , then emptiness is the sole thing we can find .

In fact, emptiness is void , we can't empty emptiness , nor can we nullify anything in nothingness. Non-doing anything to empty emptiness or to nullify nothingness will make us sense some kind of delicate quietness ; and, through this process, we are led to the realm of absolute tranquility. To the utmost of tranquility , desires can't arise; if no desires ever arise ,then genuine tranquility is attained, which lets us live and interact with all things in a real way ; in fact, it is in this process that tranquility refines itself and leads us to our original spiritual Nature;

On our way to tranquility and purity, we gradually find the right way and attain Tao; yet do we really accomplish anything? No , we accomplish nothing; it is to enlighten the mass that we claim ourselves achieve Tao. Whoever can understand this , whomever can be told of the real Tao.

Laotze said : Real intelligent guys know no quarrels or contends ,it is those inferiors incline to argue and contend. Those who get superb Te know no ethics and formalities , but those who are inferior know them well and stick to them intentionally. Whoever stick to formalities and ethics, whoever know nothing about real Tao and Te.

Why ? Because they get a mind of differentiating true from false, good from evils.., a false mind that is alien to Tao . Having such a false mind unsettle people's shen , and as their shen are unsettled , they become stuck to things around them ; Having entangled by things around can only provoke desires and eagerness inside. And, desires and eagerness can only mean anxieties and sufferings, which then further lead people to loss and humiliation in lives. Eventually people get death and failure to attaining Tao as the results of their lives.

Edited by exorcist_1699
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Jing of Tranquility , another important piece of Taoism  ,

 

Yes it is quite interesting, thanks for translation

 

seems never be translated into English ( If I am  wrong, please tell me ) before .

It was but nothing beats personal effort, so good job.

 

The Qingjing jing has been translated into English by Balfour (1894:70-73), Legge (1891 2:247-54), and Kohn (1993:24-29). Wong(1992) translated the Shuijingzi (水精子) commentary.

 

 

 

 
  觀空亦空,空無所空。所空既無,無無亦無。無無既無,湛然常寂。寂無所寂,欲豈能生。欲既不生,即是真靜。真常應物,真常得性。常應常靜,常清靜矣!
 
  如此清靜,漸入真道。既入真道,名爲得道。雖名得道,實無所得。爲化眾生,名爲得道。能悟之者,可傳聖道。
These bits are quite tricky, translators habitually get them wrong.
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exorcist_1699, on 23 Mar 2016 - 17:16, said:snapback.png

 

 
  觀空亦空,空無所空。所空既無,無無亦無。無無既無,湛然常寂。寂無所寂,欲豈能生。欲既不生,即是真靜。真常應物,真常得性。常應常靜,常清靜矣!
 
  如此清靜,漸入真道。既入真道,名爲得道。雖名得道,實無所得。爲化眾生,名爲得道。能悟之者,可傳聖道。
These bits are quite tricky, translators habitually get them wrong.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi , Taoist Texts,
 
Yeah ,  they are those  key paragraphs  ; in fact ,  you need some experience , or ability in  muddling  with varied  layers /depths of  emptiness in order to translate them  right , not just language ability . This is the reason why most scholars from those universities might get it wrong ...
Edited by exorcist_1699
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Yes. ;)

 

to translate 實無所得 as " we accomplish nothing" is a bit too naif. 

 

Here, 實無 is a contraction of a Buddhist  formula 「如來所得於是中無實無虛」or 如來實無說法.

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Yes. ;)

 

to translate 實無所得 as " we accomplish nothing" is a bit too naif. 

 

Here, 實無 is a contraction of a Buddhist  formula 「如來所得於是中無實無虛」or 如來實無說法.

 

Most people sit there mediating with an embedded mind of expecting  their illness going away , something bright, great happen , or an emptied Mind arise...etc  ; that means , nearly all people have established a mind  , a spiritual blockade  beforehand , which is alien to  high-end qi's character ;  Zen , expressed in the Sutra of Diamond for  example , or Taoist treatment of these "illness"  is to  cast or shout to  them a simple , straightforward  sentence of " accomplish nothing ! ", " Expect nothing !"  to  chop off any unwanted expectation , stream of consciousness incoming...; too much philosophical elaboration is really what they want to evade.

Edited by exorcist_1699
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 ... too much philosophical elaboration is really what they want to evade.

How much is too much?;) But that is not the point.

 

The point is that translating 實無所得 as " we accomplish nothing" is to miss what the text says completely. It is a very incorrect translation.

 

Because 實無所得 means 'gaining the being and non-being'.

 

It is a Buddhist formula, which is explained as

 

 

「如來所得於是中無實無虛」"Buddha's achievment is not in being and not in non-being"

 

or 如來實無說法 'Explanation of buddhism is in being and non-being'.

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Thanks for the translation.

 

Actually, nearly everything in the article is a reiteration of what Lao Tzu and especially Chuang Tzu had already said.

 

And yes, this is what I call "Empty-Minded Meditation".

 

I do have one disagreement with the article though.  It is to this line:

 

Man is pure, woman is impure.

 

This is opposite to what both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu have stated.

 

And when we have the condition of emptiness we have entered into the state of wu wei.

 

Yes, nothing is done because nothing needs be done.

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With all due respect Taoist Texts, in regard to this:

 

Yes. ;)

to translate 實無所得 as " we accomplish nothing" is a bit too naif.

Here, 實無 is a contraction of a Buddhist formula 「如來所得於是中無實無虛」or 如來實無說法.


and this:
 

How much is too much? ;) But that is not the point.

The point is that translating 實無所得 as " we accomplish nothing" is to miss what the text says completely. It is a very incorrect translation.

Because 實無所得 means 'gaining the being and non-being'.

It is a Buddhist formula, which is explained as


「如來所得於是中無實無虛」"Buddha's achievment is not in being and not in non-being"

or 如來實無說法 'Explanation of buddhism is in being and non-being'.


This reading of the characters looks like it comes from a commentary tradition, and if so I am sure  that all of us here would benefit from knowing more about that tradition and why it should be taken as so authoritative as to make any translation that doesn't observe it a "very incorrect translation".  This would seem to include the three online translations still available of the four that you quote without acknowledgement from Wikipedia.  The four sites in order give:

 

Although it is called “attaining the Dao,” in fact there is nothing acquired

 

Site seems to be no longer active

 

Though one speaks of "realization", actually there is nothing to attain.

 

Although it is called “achieving the Dao,” there is nothing really to be achieved.

 

I did some other poking around also, none of which seemed to justify your usage based simply on the characters, which is why I am asking about its possible origin from some commentary tradition.

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With all due respect Taoist Texts, in regard to this:

Hi Donald;)

This reading of the characters looks like it comes from a commentary tradition, and if so I am sure  that all of us here would benefit from knowing more about that tradition and why it should be taken as so authoritative 

 

Absolutely, happy to oblige. The most authoritative (or most primary)source from which the phrase  實無 (shi-wu , being-non-being) was appropriated by the Taoist literature is

 

The Diamond Sūtra (Sanskrit:Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā Sūtra) is a Mahāyāna (Buddhist)sūtra from the Prajñāpāramitā, or "Perfection of Wisdom" genre, and emphasizes the practice of non-abiding and non-attachment. The Diamond sutra is one of the most influential Mahayana sutras in East Asia, and is a key object of devotion and study in Zen Buddhism.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Sutra

 

 

 

A paralel text is here.

 

http://ctzen.org/sunnyvale/enUS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=141&Itemid=57

 

Unfortunately, that key phrase is also translated incorrectly there.

 

as to make any translation that doesn't observe it a "very incorrect translation".  This would seem to include the three online translations still available of the four that you quote without acknowledgement from Wikipedia.  The four sites in order give:

 

I did some other poking around also, none of which seemed to justify your usage based simply on the characters, which is why I am asking about its possible origin from some commentary tradition.

I know;).

You see, right of the bat, when the ppl tried to translate it they fell into the naif trap of transl. the 'shi-wu' as 'actually no'

 

E.g: 

 

10. Transformation to a Buddha World

 

 

The Buddha said to Subhuti,

- “What do you think? When the Tathagata studied under Dipankara Buddha, did he receive any Dharma?”

-“No, World Honored One, when the Tathagata studied under Dipankara Buddha, he did not (actually) receive any Dharma.” 

 

佛告

-須菩提•於意云何•如來昔在然燈佛所•於法有所得不•

- 不也•世尊•如來在然燈佛所•於法實無所得

 

 

Which is of course wrong and is debunked by a subsequent explanation of what the shi-wu really stands for: 

 

14. A Mind Without Attachments

 

Subhuti, the Truth (Dharma) that the Tathagata has attained is neither real nor unreal.

 

 

須菩提•如來所得法•此法無實無虛•

 

 

Turns out it is a contraction of 'being which is non-being', a key idea of Buddhism which (actually together with the rest of 'em, lol) was lost on translators, resulting in nonsensical 'there is no attainment' etc.

 

 

Or to summarize what happened to the ill fated phrase 實無所得 habitually mistranslated as 'there is no attainment':

 

correctly, it means 'the attainment is our self-realisation as not  being nor not non-being', which is coded as 實無 shi-wu.

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Thanks for the detail of your reply.  I like to examine things in context so I am looking at sections 9-11 of your link:

 

The Diamond of Perfect Wisdom Sutra

 

very carefully.

 

Section nine's mention of:

 

"Because ‘srotapanna’ means ‘stream-enterer,’ and there is in fact nothing to enter"

 

reminded me of this:

 

"We both step and do not step in the same rivers. We are and are not."

 

It looks like I am going to be very busy over the next few days, so I probably will not reply more until next week.  I already see an interesting take on the matter, but I need to look over it more closely.

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Interesting dicussion.

 

My sense of the line in question is that 所 specifies a noun rather than a verb. So it's not that there is no accomplishment (verb) but that there is no thing (noun) which is gained in the process.

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I agree that  所 does stand for a noun, being a pronoun, i.e  the grammatical role of 所 is

 

"1)  What, that which, all that, whatever (nearest thing to a Chin. relative pronoun, introducing a noun clause): "

 

 

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/

 

but there is no 'no' here. what ppl mistake for a 'no'  is in fact the Buddhist term for 'non-being' and what they mistake for 'actually' is in fact the Buddhist term for 'being' 實.

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14. A Mind Without Attachments

 

Subhuti, the Truth (Dharma) that the Tathagata has attained is neither real nor unreal.

 

 

須菩提•如來所得法•此法無實無虛•

 

 

Turns out it is a contraction of 'being which is non-being', a key idea of Buddhism which (actually together with the rest of 'em, lol) was lost on translators, resulting in nonsensical 'there is no attainment' etc.

 

 

Or to summarize what happened to the ill fated phrase 實無所得 habitually mistranslated as 'there is no attainment':

 

correctly, it means 'the attainment is our self-realisation as not being nor not non-being', which is coded as 實無 shi-wu.

Wouldn't 無實無虛 just mean dharma is "without reality and without emptiness (unreality)," making 虛 rather than 無 stand for non-being?

 

Also, just to be clear on my own position, 所 is less a pronoun here than it is a modifier which makes 得 into a noun.

Edited by Harmonious Emptiness

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Wouldn't 無實無虛 just mean dharma is "without reality and without emptiness (unreality)," making 虛 rather than 無 stand for non-being?

 

 

Exactly. That's the tricky thing about the language in general and about the 無 in particular. Some times it means 'no' sometimes 'non-being'. How you know which is which? You gotta understand the subject.

 

 

 

Also, just to be clear on my own position, 所 is less a pronoun here than it is a modifier which makes 得 into a noun.

 

cool:)

Edited by Taoist Texts
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I wonder if the statement man is pure woman is impure. Is due to a womans menstrual period and that was viewed as impure?

 

I think that you are on to something blacstar212. It is stated somewhere in the Old Testament that when a woman had her mences, she was considered unclean until her cycle was over. She was to purify herself by bathing, and then be inspected by the "Rabi" in order to get permission to mingle with othes in her home group. Women who had their mences were isolated away from others so as not to defile them.

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Although people in old times did get   biased views against women, the term " impure" should not be viewed so negative as people think  if we see it in a yin-yang way  : pure born from impure, creation from chaos , or establishment from destruction...

Edited by exorcist_1699

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While we could look at the actual characters for 'pure' and 'impure' we wouldn't get any closer than just looking at the text; the text provides its own commentary:

 

 


Inside Tao ,something is pure and something is impure , something is active and something is passive . The heaven is pure, the earth is impure.The heaven moves, the earth stays constant .Man is pure, woman is impure. Man is active, woman is passive;

 

Let's not get so caught up in "pure" and miss "active" nor so caught up in "impure" and miss "passive".

 

Pure=Active=Heaven & Man

 

Impure=Passive=Earth & Woman

 

I don't think we would worry so much about Earth as impure but use woman and it starts something that it is not.

 

Just think this way, if it is better:

Pure=Yang

Impure=Yin

 

Active in terms of Energy is like Transmission (male)

 

Passive in terms of Energy is like Reception (female)

 

Together they are a loop... their is a dance going on here...   Heaven and Earth are dancing as well...

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I wonder if the statement man is pure woman is impure. Is due to a womans menstrual period and that was viewed as impure?

 

No, it's due to a tragic tradition in full swing at the time of the writing and still going strong --

 

the tradition to back up the subjugation of women in a triumphant patriarchal testosterocracy with assorted ideological justifications.  If a woman is impure, and the scriptures say she is, you don't have to worry about treating her like shit.  It's your birthright, you're pure, see, no matter what you do -- you are a man, therefore pure.  Works out nicely for half the human population, and the other half, the dirt underfoot, doesn't matter.

 

Fast forward a couple thousand years and you see the dying Earth, an inevitable practical outcome of this ideology.  Earth is dirty.  Dirty mother, to be purified by pure fathers.  A highway is much cleaner than a forest trail.     

 

If someone tells me that the real word is "fertile" rather than "impure," and another real word is "capable of fertilizing" rather than "pure," I'll apologize to the author of the treatise and hold the makers of the dictionaries responsible rather than him.  

 

Because that's what the difference really is -- how people manage to accept anyfuckingthing else as the distinction between a man and a woman is mind-boggling.  What?  You haven't noticed that a woman is fertile and a man is capable of fertilizing her?

 

That's all it really means, in all contexts, yin-yang, pure-impure, clean-muddy, and what not.  It's all it really means, always, for all purposes, and to consistently and relentlessly slip in terms that make it seem as something entirely else is part of the great and horrible tragedy of thousands of years... 

 

I admire the skill of our translators, but is it possible to take a step back from all the dictionaries and think about what this particular way of phrasing a supposedly abstract idea actually does in the non-abstract world of live human beings?..  Think harder about where an idea might be coming from?..  About why it seems attractive or repugnant to you personally? -- the steady clear gaze turned within at this point?..

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Pure is polar complete to impure as one unit or whole,

 

Man is polar complete to woman as a unit or whole.

 

Impure does not represent  the energetic of  female and is not the energy that makes female complete. if true then yang is divine and yin is evil ERROR this simply does not exist in nature.

 

Yin and yang is so simple except when you place their value to an opposite that is not polar complete, scribes make mistakes so we just need to get past the words and catch the over all meaning.

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Reading this, the phrase, "God's gift to women" comes to mind.

 

Somehow, I do not think that this the whole truth of it.

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