The origin of mankind

[Nungali]

This is actually a valid perspective.  Sure, it's nice to know from where we came and how we got here but it really doesn't matter.  We live in the "now" moment.

 

 

Well, it seems some people forgot that saying about    'if you forget the past ......   

 

 

.... how does it go again    

[Marblehead]

Well, it seems some people forgot that saying about    'if you forget the past ......   

 

 

.... how does it go again    

But some mistakes are worth making over and over again.

 

However, yes, what you said is also true.  We are supposed to learn from our mistakes of the past.

[Stosh]

 

While this is true, those types normally can't see that far so it doesn't matter to them.

It still gives you handy argument. Give folks the whole truth and they are empowered. However they use it , or disregard it, will always up to them. Should that be denied? The tendency to see the differences, historically outweighs the tendency to see commonality. Juxtaposing the differences right along with the commonality,is an attempt to portray truth. Edited April 4, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

It still gives you handy argument.

I liked the way it read before you edited the post.

 

Yeah, I have some handy arguments; others are totally worthless.

[Stosh]

The fun answer isnt usually the mature one.

[Marblehead]

The fun answer isnt usually the mature one.

Funny.  It has been a long time since I have been accused of being mature.

[Stosh]

No one Ever accused me of that. ... or being fun. I have been called Dynamic,,which sounds good, but when you think about it, thats a bit like saying someone is 'vertical'.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Stosh

[Nungali]

anyway , back to the distinct human difference.

 

I dont see it as bipedalism as that does not create the result of the differences we see - here I am talking about the distinct human ability to, not adapt the body over time to deal with an environmental change, but to develop a 'technology' to deal with it. 

 

Again I see it as a product of 'imagination' , and animals may heave imagination , but not the sort that leads to this technology.

 

The way I see it is ; 'Man'  has the ability to foresee many possible outcomes from one scenario so he designs a tool and carries it with him, for possible future uses , not what is just at hand at the moment. Then he learns, in application, about the tool and its developments, and adjusts it for more perceived future uses.    This is especially so in the concept of a multi use tool  ( eg a digging point at one end and stone 'blade' at the other. ) 

 

To me, this means a thought process projected into the future with a type of mind map / flow diagram.  We imagine possible scenarios in our imagination and  develop possible multiple strategies to enact depending on what occurs ... or begins to unfold.  And I see an inbuilt desire to see , at least some of, these ideas expressed and 'grounded' in the material world (outside of their mental construction).  It may be via technology or an artistic  or creative expression.

 

This process leads to a type of 'psychological health'.   This desire , first to mentally create and then to see imaginative  concepts 'tried out' in reality, in the real world, to me, is the basic psychological nature of 'soul'  .   If 'soul; is not expressed it disrupts the psyche by either 'deadening' imagination / soul    ( 'imaginative soul ' ) or, in some cases , demanding its expression by causing a change in perceived reality.

 

Some say 'soul desire'   can change material reality, I have not observed that, but I have seen it change perception of  material reality.  And there seems to be inbuilt 'laws' and 'dynamics '   about this. 

 

I may not have explained it well  .... I am still nutting it out, but it all seems implied from several viewpoints , most noticeably that of Harpur's  'Diamonic Reality' theory 

 

" The mistake, he suggests, is to deny and repress these manifestations, since the repressed returns, pathologically and dangerously, if separated from a context of meaning and belief. Harpur suggests that a function of these daimonic forces may now be to undermine a deadening and narrow scientific orthodoxy and world-view - the 'single vision' which Blake so deplored.  This sounds very radical but Harpur is the first to point out that it is not very new.  By drawing on a philosophical tradition that flows down the centuries from the Neoplatonists, through the Romantics, and crucially in Bake, Yeats and Jung, he shows that there is an ancient history of understanding of this daimonic, Otherworld reality.  Indeed, he goes back further still by embracing the folklore and tales of the Otherworld from across the Western tradition, and acknowledges that every culture, except perhaps our own, has seen its world as interpenetrated with another, shadowy, yet powerful reality, full of wonder, beauty and terror.  The key to being alert to it lies in what Blake called the Imagination, and in not allowing the rational mind to shut out what it cannot readily comprehend or control. "

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm

 

&    for related dynamics of this type of 'imagination' ;

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHsecretfire.htm

[Junko]

What is soul? Where do soul come from? That's the question.

[Nungali]

Yes  -   and this  ^  is my answer .

 

'Soul' is a function of the imagination grounded in technology / artistic, creative expression that defines the distinct human difference. 

[steve]

I'm not advocating any one theory as 'correct' but I'm fascinated by the Bönpo view of the soul.

It's an ancient concept intertwined with Buddhist and shamanistic views.

Here's a detailed discussion by Dmitry Ermakov, a scholar and practitioner of Yungdrung Bön:

[Aaron]

My experience is that we are EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING has always been here, how things evolved isn't such an important question for me, rather I'm concerned with what am I doing right now. 

[Aaron]

To add to my first comment mankind existed for around 200,000 years without any form of religion, to believe that religions somehow have the answer, simply because of a creation myth doesn't necessarily answer the question. Look in the mirror and you can see your beginning and your end.

[Karl]

anyway , back to the distinct human difference.

 

I dont see it as bipedalism as that does not create the result of the differences we see - here I am talking about the distinct human ability to, not adapt the body over time to deal with an environmental change, but to develop a 'technology' to deal with it.

 

Again I see it as a product of 'imagination' , and animals may heave imagination , but not the sort that leads to this technology.

 

The way I see it is ; 'Man' has the ability to foresee many possible outcomes from one scenario so he designs a tool and carries it with him, for possible future uses , not what is just at hand at the moment. Then he learns, in application, about the tool and its developments, and adjusts it for more perceived future uses. This is especially so in the concept of a multi use tool ( eg a digging point at one end and stone 'blade' at the other. )

 

To me, this means a thought process projected into the future with a type of mind map / flow diagram. We imagine possible scenarios in our imagination and develop possible multiple strategies to enact depending on what occurs ... or begins to unfold. And I see an inbuilt desire to see , at least some of, these ideas expressed and 'grounded' in the material world (outside of their mental construction). It may be via technology or an artistic or creative expression.

 

This process leads to a type of 'psychological health'. This desire , first to mentally create and then to see imaginative concepts 'tried out' in reality, in the real world, to me, is the basic psychological nature of 'soul' . If 'soul; is not expressed it disrupts the psyche by either 'deadening' imagination / soul ( 'imaginative soul ' ) or, in some cases , demanding its expression by causing a change in perceived reality.

 

Some say 'soul desire' can change material reality, I have not observed that, but I have seen it change perception of material reality. And there seems to be inbuilt 'laws' and 'dynamics ' about this.

 

I may not have explained it well .... I am still nutting it out, but it all seems implied from several viewpoints , most noticeably that of Harpur's 'Diamonic Reality' theory

 

" The mistake, he suggests, is to deny and repress these manifestations, since the repressed returns, pathologically and dangerously, if separated from a context of meaning and belief. Harpur suggests that a function of these daimonic forces may now be to undermine a deadening and narrow scientific orthodoxy and world-view - the 'single vision' which Blake so deplored. This sounds very radical but Harpur is the first to point out that it is not very new. By drawing on a philosophical tradition that flows down the centuries from the Neoplatonists, through the Romantics, and crucially in Bake, Yeats and Jung, he shows that there is an ancient history of understanding of this daimonic, Otherworld reality. Indeed, he goes back further still by embracing the folklore and tales of the Otherworld from across the Western tradition, and acknowledges that every culture, except perhaps our own, has seen its world as interpenetrated with another, shadowy, yet powerful reality, full of wonder, beauty and terror. The key to being alert to it lies in what Blake called the Imagination, and in not allowing the rational mind to shut out what it cannot readily comprehend or control. "

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm]http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm[/url]

 

& for related dynamics of this type of 'imagination' ;

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHsecretfire.htm]http://www.harpur.org/PJCHsecretfire.htm[/url]

In objectivist philosophy creativity is built from direct experiences of reality, thereby creating concepts. These concepts are integrated to form new concepts and inductive leaps. This provides man with the potential of creating new solutions to problems. Yet he still needs the perceptions and abstract concepts they form in his mind in order to do this work.

 

The reason is reason. Man must live long range-he has no choice about it if he wishes to survive he must plan into the future. Choice gives him an immense number of options and these include innovation.

 

The same thing applies to art, which is the concretised conceptual abstraction of an individual made into a perceptual representation. This is why art is affecting. If the viewer shares similar values and abstractions with the artist they will come to feel the art means something to them. They agree with the artist that this is how life is for them. If they do not agree it will leave them cold.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Karl

[Stosh]

Soul -The core of who a person thinks they are when all the transitory and false is removed.......as opposed to the actual You , which includes the transitory and false.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Stosh

[Junko]

Is soul more like energy thing?

Edited April 6, 2016 by Junko

[Stosh]

Is soul more like enagy thing?

No its not, 'energy thing ' is appropriate language.

[Junko]

No its not, 'energy thing ' is appropriate language.

Ok, so how should I put it?

[Stosh]

Ok, so how should I put it?

I agreed that the terminology was appropriate, not in-appropriate.

[Junko]

Where do soul come from?

[Karl]

Where do soul come from?

If you mean consciousness/life then it was inherent in the fabric of the universe, it only needed the right components to come together in order for it to become manifest within those components.

 

The universe IS and so it is creation in and of itself because it has structure. It isn't random, but contains causality which is alo an ordered pattern of structure and in a particular order of precedence which implies a direction and hence it must always 'progress' in a very broad sense of the word.

 

Life is not ever lasting. Unlike a rock which becomes dust over time, life-not the body-eventually perishes. Life is therefore transitory for each entity and it must struggle to maintain itself by action. It's as though it is the creativity of the universe, it's order, causality and implied direction rolled into one fragile bubble that must fight to prevent its demise primarily because it is the product of that fragility. Life has to work at being alive because it is alive. In that extent it is similar to the universe because it is product of the universe, it is effectively its own creation, its own force. The soul didn't come from anywhere, it created itself. It is its own spark, if the conditions are right. Self generating self. We are a product of ourselves without need for anything more. Each soul has specific, individual identity and unique to itself and its material make up. That means we are like a candle. Once the wax is used up, the light goes out, there will never be that same exact candle ever again. Each new candle is a unique event, self contained, self generating, but limited by the fact that to be life it must face extinction.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Karl

[Marblehead]

The soul didn't come from anywhere, it created itself.

That sounds really, really strange.

[Junko]

I think the soul came from nothing or everything. Because in dao way nothing is everything, everything is nothing.

[Marblehead]

I think the soul came from nothing or everything. Because in dao way nothing is everything, everything is nothing.

Yes, from no-thing, but not nothing.  Just as the universe was born out of no-thing.

 

(Yes, everything is born out of no-thing.)

 

Dao gave birth to One (no-thing gave birth to thing).

[Junko]

Yup, here we go!