The origin of mankind

[Jim D.]

I can see how the Creation Story in Genesis is similar to Steve's sharing about "coming out of the earth, and going back to the earth." If we look at other cultures and their Creation Story they are very similiar. So, what does that say about us. It says we were seeking for the truth of our beginning and came up with a story, and it turned out to be similiar no matter where you lived. Now ask yourself, where did the idea of this story come from?

[Marblehead]

All of them from the mind of men.  Humans are of a given nature,  We view the universe the same way but our mind allows for different interpretations.  The different interpretations are the different creation myths.  But they all saw approximately the same thing.

[Karl]

All of them from the mind of men.  Humans are of a given nature,  We view the universe the same way but our mind allows for different interpretations.  The different interpretations are the different creation myths.  But they all saw approximately the same thing.

An animal/human giving birth, a bird coming out of an egg, a plant from a seed, that sort of thing.

[Jim D.]

Chimp/man had offspring. A bird at one time looked larger and more threatening and laid eggs. So did T Rex. Not all plants come from seeds. Some are asexual. Some come from rhizomes or tubers. But I think that MH is talking about myths.

[Nungali]

Early Earth had little oxygen.  Not enough to support any oxygen breathing life.

 

The first life on Earth was plant life that photosynthesized the sun's energy.  It breathed CO2 and exhausted O2.  This oxygen initially caused lots of rust.  The oceans and the skies became rust-red.  Eventually the rust settled to the ocean floor and the earth's land surfaces.  Oxygen then became purer and allowed for the evolution of animal life to evolve.

 

yes ...  but the oxygen was already there.  As you say it breathed CO₂ ... there is oxygen in  carbon di OXIDE .... all oxides are a combination of oxygen and other elements . 

 

Guys -  elements dont get created or destroyed on planets ... they just get reconfigured and shuffled around ..

 

solve et coagula  

 

You dont need to explain red 'rust' to an Aussie   

 

 

 

[Karl]

Chimp/man had offspring. A bird at one time looked larger and more threatening and laid eggs. So did T Rex. Not all plants come from seeds. Some are asexual. Some come from rhizomes or tubers. But I think that MH is talking about myths.

Myths are just erroneous conceptions. You see something come out of an egg, man comes out of a woman, so why not mankind came out of an egg, mountain, mythical beast ? The ancients had no grasp of causality, chemicals, DNA, past history, biology, physics, so they did their best to come up with answers for things, we still do this today.

[Karl]

yes ...  but the oxygen was already there.  As you say it breathed CO₂ ... there is oxygen in  carbon di OXIDE .... all oxides are a combination of oxygen and other elements . 

 

Guys -  elements dont get created or destroyed on planets ... they just get reconfigured and shuffled around ..

 

solve et coagula  

 

You dont need to explain red 'rust' to an Aussie   

 

 

 

Speaking for MH here, he wasn't saying that there wasn't any oxygen, only that there was once very little of it in the primordial atmosphere and that the first living things began converting the carbon dioxide into oxygen like little factories, I'm certain he doesn't think they invented oxygen ;-)

[Nungali]

Yes, on this planet water is the source of all life.  Science calls life on Earth "water-based life".

 

Elsewhere in the universe there may be life that is other liquid-based life.

 

Hmmmm   ....  ? 

 

Scientists have discovered 19 special microbes all over the globe, as far as 3.1 miles underground. The microbes were acquired from rock fissures in such diverse locations as North America, Japan, Europe, South America, and even deep hydrothermal vents in the Caribbean (Cantor, 2013). What makes them special is that they are “more than 97% identical, or practically the same species,” according to researcher Matt Schrenk of Michigan State University in East Lansing (Cantor), even though they have been found on opposite sides of the Earth. Rick Colwell of Oregon State University in Corvallis said, “There seems to be a core group of microbes that appears again and again in all of these environments” (as quoted in Brahic, 2013). Researchers believe that such similarities point “to a possible common ancestor about 3.5 billion years ago” 

 

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=4805

 

Conditions for life underground would have been more suitable than on the surface , way back.   Life may have started way before, underground ... while the surface was full of toxic materials, radiation  (before the formation of the ozone layer ), etc . 

 

Some astroscience postulates that the search for extra terrestrial life needs to be widened from 'earth like' planets where water / ocean / sea  evolution to a broader possible spectrum .

 

If this is valid ...  the potential  of 'life planets'   numbers just jumped up  a LOT !  

[Nungali]

We human consist about 90％ of water as well.

 

That makes us 35% oxygen   

[Nungali]

More at 78% for infants and 58% for adults but you are on the right track.

 

Yes ... I have started to feel like I am drying out as I get older .   A bit like an empty 'dilly bag' . 

 

 

[Nungali]

I can see how the Creation Story in Genesis is similar to Steve's sharing about "coming out of the earth, and going back to the earth." If we look at other cultures and their Creation Story they are very similiar. So, what does that say about us. It says we were seeking for the truth of our beginning and came up with a story, and it turned out to be similiar no matter where you lived. Now ask yourself, where did the idea of this story come from?

 

the core of the story comes form our shared essential human nature .  So there are similarities.

 

The variations and clothing of the stories is socio-cultural 'dressing' .  So there are differences. 

 

Its like :   in  ancient Egypt, each time and place had a 'different take on' or a variant understanding of certain mysteries.

 

(on this I recommend the works of Rosemary Clarke ) .   The same here in Oz,  each tradition,  variation from country (locality) operates the same way .... all arts of the 'jigsaw puzzle ' ... each part holds some truth (like a hologram) but each part is not 'the one and only truth'  (that is slipping into 'religion' ) . 

 

I asked a Bundjulung elder about this ;  do all the stories come together, at some place,  and all the songlines too, making up one big picture . 

 

he smiled and said "Of course they do ... isnt that obvious ? "

 

the place  of intersection is often the place of creation; here , overall, Uluru 

 

others have their own 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/location.htm#shambhala

[Nungali]

Myths are just erroneous conceptions. You see something come out of an egg, man comes out of a woman, so why not mankind came out of an egg, mountain, mythical beast ? The ancients had no grasp of causality, chemicals, DNA, past history, biology, physics, so they did their best to come up with answers for things, we still do this today.

 

No . They know / knew a LOT more than you give them credit for. 

 

'just erroneous concepts' ... excuse me Karl, but how modernly biased of you.     Such 'erroneous conceptions' allowed the indigenous here to survive for over 40,000 years, without wrecking their own environment, and amidst climate change of drying and heat, ice age, sea level  changes, volcanoes, ice ......  

 

I am wondering how our modern society with its  " grasp of causality, chemicals, DNA, past history, biology, physics,"   is going to compare with that record ? 

[Nungali]

Speaking for MH here, he wasn't saying that there wasn't any oxygen, only that there was once very little of it in the primordial atmosphere and that the first living things began converting the carbon dioxide into oxygen like little factories, I'm certain he doesn't think they invented oxygen ;-)

 

No. But I keep saying the same , after that 'oxygen was created here ' comment - that it wasnt, it was already here .  And I keep getting comments explaining how it was already here in response to my explanations of how it was already here  .... 

 

...  whatever . 

 

I do realize the early atmosphere was not like was later ... thats why I said it was toxic to life and life may have started underground first 

[Nungali]

.... I am not even gonna touch the 'chimp man ' comment   

[Marblehead]

A tidbit for Nungali and anyone else interested:

 

Based on fossil evidence all marsupials evolved from the first species that evolved in what is now North America.

 

This was back when the continents were still connect.  The marsupials spread from North America to South America then to Australia and even Antarctica. 

 

When the continents split up all but one species in North America died off.  South America has only two species.  Antarctica became too cold and all died off.  The Australian marsupials spread like the branches of a tree because there were no predators to kill them off.

[Marblehead]

An animal/human giving birth, a bird coming out of an egg, a plant from a seed, that sort of thing.

Exactly.  I mean, afterall, something had to lay the egg.

[Marblehead]

yes ...  but the oxygen was already there.  As you say it breathed CO₂ ... there is oxygen in  carbon di OXIDE .... all oxides are a combination of oxygen and other elements . 

 

Guys -  elements dont get created or destroyed on planets ... they just get reconfigured and shuffled around ..

 

I'm not going to get any more technical than I already have.  Hehehe.

 

Well, okay, one more shot:  The CO2 in the atmosphere was much greater back then.  That made the CO2 to O2 ratio much greater on the CO2 side.  The CO2 had to decrease and the O2 had to increase.  Which it did, of course.

[Marblehead]

Hmmmm   ....  ?

 

If this is valid ...  the potential  of 'life planets'   numbers just jumped up  a LOT !  

True that.  They are called extremophiles.  They can also be found in the deep oceans at volcanic vents.  They all are life forms that are not reliant on the sun's energy.  The base life forms live off the chemicals and minerals found in their environment.

 

And it is true, after the discovery of extremophiles the theory was established that life may have first originated in the form of extreophiles.

[Marblehead]

That makes us 35% oxygen  

I think you need to get your calculator out again.

[Marblehead]

.... I am not even gonna touch the 'chimp man ' comment  

Yeah, don't be touching chimps.  They will knock your socks off.

[Jim D.]

Wow! The things that I am learning from this post. I have come across a little about everything the has been commented on. The Chemical ratio...when this is reduced that increases...sounds like ying/yang. Living off toxic chemicals sounds like humanoid relationships. Special microbes on their way to being something different in the future. The planet being spied that has life below ground. Traces of water on that planet. A meteor carrying just the right stuff for life to happen. Drawings on a cave wall tells the story of the times spent walking upright.

 

A friend once told me that a story can only be written four ways. Each story has the same theme. It is interesting that my Dao Bum Brothers are finding ways to share and be unique at the same time. This probably happened around the camp site eons ago.

[Michael Sternbach]

I resonate with Alan Watts' ideas on this topic.

We have this feeling that we come onto the Earth from somewhere, when in fact we come out of it.

Just as an apple seed is of the nature that gives rise to an apple, the Earth is of the nature that births all manner of living and sentient beings. 

We humans feel like we are different and special in some way, and we certainly are, but for me there is no compelling reason to think that we are anything other than a naturally occurring organism that is a part of Earth's biosystem.

We are the eyes and ears of the Earth, we are the sensory organs through which all of the beauty of the universe becomes manifest.

That's more than enough of an explanation for me. 

 

There are both Eastern and Western mystery traditions stating that Man came from both Heaven (read: the Cosmos, multidimensional space) and Earth, connecting the two with each other as mediator.

[Michael Sternbach]

So it must be water...water somehow got created.

 

Interestingly, it is believed that most of the water on Earth was brought here by comets as well, which were impacting our planet frequently during the early stages of the development of Earth and the solar system.

[steve]

There are both Eastern and Western mystery traditions stating that Man came from both Heaven (read: the Cosmos, multidimensional space) and Earth, connecting the two with each other as mediator.

 

I think such stories have many levels of meaning.

I don't find them at odds with my earlier comments. 

I do appreciate the perspective and am always open to hearing more.

[liminal_luke]

When we ask about the origin of mankind, what are we really getting at?  Apart from whatever the scientific facts might be, I think we want to know how connected we are to the rest of the universe.  Am I just this little person sitting here alone, or am I existentially tethered to the farthest reaches of the universe?  It´s comforting to look out at a starry sky and imagine that who we are is related in some deep and fundamental way with the vastness of space out there.

 

And yet there´s something a little disloyal about saying we´re really from some other solar system, a distant star far, far away.  I mean, what´s so bad about being from the earth anyway?  My partner and I have this little game.  When one of us does something a little strange (often something strangely wonderful) the other will ask, "are you from this planet?"  The implication is that we´re not from this planet -- and that that´s a good thing.  Turns out the grass is always greener one galaxy over.

 

Maybe there´s a way to feel ordinary and extraordinary at the same time.  To embrace the earth as our true mother and know that we aren´t in any way less than creatures from other solar systems.  To know that we can connect energetically with the all space and time without leaving, in mind or body, this little planet we call home.

Edited August 3, 2016 by liminal_luke