Informer

Favorite Quotes from Buddha.

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6 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Why not try to make your other posts more interesting? 

Instead of seeking attention this way, I mean. 

 

Well, yes, that is how the times are right now. 

Makes for less screen time and more practice time. 

 

It wasn't posted to seek attention, at least not in that way. I've already explained that I'm not going over it again if you didn't get it the first time.

 

If you allow yourself to be shaped by the times and follow in ways blatantly false you are in effect betraying your own integrity. If thats an acceptable thing for you then have at it. There's plenty (un)happy to join you and I'll stand alone if needs be.

 

3 minutes ago, steve said:

To me, words and the feelings of others count.

 

Nothing to do with political correctness in my mind, that's simply a blanket excuse for a lack of empathy and civility.

I'm not personally offended by your comments but I have this protective instinct that often leads me to engage when I feel others are being targeted, especially vulnerable groups - in this case women and the LGBTQ community.

This forum was filled with misogynistic loud-mouths with over-inflated spiritual egos for a long time who made it an unpleasant place to share and interact with people.

I think this is why I'm a bit reactive to a few of your recent posts. 

I joined the mod team a year and a half ago to change the tenor here and I think we did a good job.

It may be slow and quiet, echoey even... but I think there are those here who value a safe space to share intimate and profound feelings and experiences on their spiritual path. For me that is a worthwhile trade off.

Whether you stay or go is of little consequence to me really but I'll respond as I see fit. 

 

 

So you're a social justice warrior then? Someone who goes around looking for things to be offended for on other peoples behalf? No wonder you're "on the internet" as its the only place your kind are. Real life NPCs unaware that they are unaware. On a spiritual forum. Oh the irony.

 

Does "changing the tenor" mean running this place into the ground because as far as I can tell there about 10 people posting on here these days. Well done. Hitler would be proud with how you cleansed the place of "undesirables" (as you define them). Do you even see how dictatorial you sound? Either way I'm glad you shared because it explains why this forum feels so bombed out and depleted.

 

From lurking and searching every now and then it seemed to be vibrant, filled with discussion and lots of experience. In reality its pretty much the opposite of that which means in between then and now something happened and you just filled in that blank.

 

Well done. Here's to the next 10,000 posts in your "safe space". Just typing that makes me want to puke. How can any fully grown person even deign to use such a term? You know the inference right? That everywhere else is perceived as threat so what does that say about your internal world, emotional development and overall resilience?

 

It seems this forum had a civil war at some point long past and drove what made it interesting out leaving the losers to claim a win by sheer default. No offense to those who aren't all riled up by a simple spoilered, warned and generally "safe-spaced" meme as I'm sure you're cool but the rest of you've who replied up in arms seem like a bunch of tools just looking for a reason to be unhappy.

 

Glad we had this conversation though as I've realized you're not the kind of people I want to be anywhere near. Misery is contagious so I'm going to log out now and be on my merry way.

 

This is not the congregation I'm seeking... May you find happiness and I truly mean that as all I know how to be is genuine.

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True love is born from understanding.
Buddha

 

“A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.”
Dhammapada, The Dhammapada: The Sayings of the Buddha

 

Nothing can harm you as much as your own thoughts unguarded.

Buddha

 

Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace.

Buddha

 

Delight in meditation and solitude. Compose yourself, be happy. You are a seeker.

Buddha

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The three most difficult things for a human being are not physical feats or intellectual achievements. They are, first, returning love for hate; second, including the excluded; third, admitting that you are wrong.

 

Anthony de Mello

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4 hours ago, Seeking said:

 

Of course it is. If you can't see the joke (and truth) in this then I don't know what to say. I signed up to discuss things that interest me. I don't pull punches and am known for being quite blunt. Its interesting that you think I've got "an attitude of nonchalant bravado" so thanks for that insight.

 

I'll give you 24 hours to decide whether to ban this username or sit down and be quiet as I've no intent of foregoing my nature on your, or anyone elses, account.

 

If you want an echo chamber, have at it. You've already done quite well in that respect it seems. Discussion is born from people having different views and wishing to learn from one another. Otherwise what is the point in having a forum?

 

24 hours. Don't think too hard. Go with what feels good. But most of all, remember what Buddha said as it applies so perfectly in this situation.

Moderator note: Suspended for 7 days 

Edited by dwai

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I suppose someone would like to find a quote relevant to the importance of virtuous speech after reading all this?

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On 22/11/2021 at 7:22 AM, steve said:

I joined the mod team a year and a half ago to change the tenor here and I think we did a good job.

It may be slow and quiet, echoey even... but I think there are those here who value a safe space to share intimate and profound feelings and experiences on their spiritual path. For me that is a worthwhile trade off.

 

I appreciate that staff maintains this forum as a place where meaningful dialogue is possible. I find it’s current incarnation plenty busy enough. There’s some level of stillness here, yet I don’t consider it a safe place, nor would I want it to be. For anyone attuned to subtle energy flows, there’s plenty of underlying conflict here. And I need that for my inner growth. It makes me aware of the varied paths we are on and of the myriad conflicting forces within me. 

 

When there is ongoing gross conflict stirred up my those who seek to dominate the forum with their own strong opinions, then this subtle level of engagement is drowned out. I’m thankful that the endless battles that these opinion warlords are seemingly compelled to engage in are no longer tolerated by staff. 
 

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21 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

I suppose someone would like to find a quote relevant to the importance of virtuous speech after reading all this?

You mean this one?

 

Spoiler

“Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

“It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.

“A statement endowed with these five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people.”

 

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5 hours ago, Yueya said:

 

I appreciate that staff maintains this forum as a place where meaningful dialogue is possible. I find it’s current incarnation plenty busy enough. There’s some level of stillness here, yet I don’t consider it a safe place, nor would I want it to be. For anyone attuned to subtle energy flows, there’s plenty of underlying conflict here. And I need that for my inner growth. It makes me aware of the varied paths we are on and of the myriad conflicting forces within me. 

 

When there is ongoing gross conflict stirred up my those who seek to dominate the forum with their own strong opinions, then this subtle level of engagement is drowned out. I’m thankful that the endless battles that these opinion warlords are seemingly compelled to engage in are no longer tolerated by staff. 
 


Not long ago (which every mod in the past couple years can attest to), I wasn’t much different from him. If he’s really studying and practicing Dharma as opposed to just finding quotes expressing his current understanding, he’ll eventually come around and his amicability with others will reflect his practice. Give him time, because he isn’t giving himself time to look inside as well as around.

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On 23/11/2021 at 1:54 PM, Earl Grey said:


Not long ago (which every mod in the past couple years can attest to), I wasn’t much different from him. If he’s really studying and practicing Dharma as opposed to just finding quotes expressing his current understanding, he’ll eventually come around and his amicability with others will reflect his practice. Give him time, because he isn’t giving himself time to look inside as well as around.

 

Yes, I was like that too for many, many years (far worse, in fact), but a long time before I joined Dao Bums I went through a profound reversal of attitude due to the unbearably bleak place I found myself in. In this I was guided by many teachings. In retrospect I can acknowledge that Spirit guided be both into the bleak places of despair and aloneness, and then towards a deep inner sense belonging. I’m referring here to an ongoing decades long process through which I’ve experienced great anguish as well as lifesaving human warmth and support.  Such a path is perhaps unavoidable for any independent seeker.  

 

Here’s a quotation from someone I regard as a Buddha that expresses this process with great clarity. Zerostao reminded me of it with his recent post
 

“The modern man does not want to know in what way he can imitate Christ, but in what way he can live his own individual life, however meagre and uninteresting it may be. It is because every form of imitation seems to him deadening and sterile that he rebels against the force of tradition that would hold him to well-trodden ways. All such roads, for him, lead in the wrong direction. He may not know it, but he behaves as if his own individual life were God’s special will which must be fulfilled at all costs. This is the source of his egoism, which is one of the most tangible evils of the neurotic state. But the person who tells him he is too egoistic has already lost his confidence, and rightly so, for that person has driven him still further into his neurosis.

 

If I wish to effect a cure for my patients, I am forced to acknowledge the deep significance of their egoism, I should be blind, indeed, if I did not recognize it as a true will of God. I must even help the patient to prevail in his egoism; if he succeeds in this, he estranges himself from other people. He drives them away, and they come to themselves as they should, for they were seeking to rob him of his “sacred” egoism. This must be left to him, for it is his strongest and healthiest power; it is, as I have said, a true will of God, which sometimes drives him into complete isolation. However wretched this state may be, it also stands him in good stead, for in this way alone can he get to know himself and learn what an invaluable treasure is the love of his fellow beings. It is, moreover, only in the state of complete abandonment and loneliness that we experience the helpful powers of our own natures.

 

When one has several times seen this development at work one can no longer deny that what was evil has turned to good, and that what seemed good has kept alive the forces of evil. The archdemon of egoism leads us along the royal road to that ingathering which religious experience demands. What we observe here is a fundamental law of life, enantiodromia or conversion into the opposite; and it is this that makes possible the reunion of the warring halves of the personality and thereby brings the civil war to an end.”

 

Edit to add: The one part I disagree with is:  “but in what way he can live his own individual life, however meagre and uninteresting it may be.” In my experience a true path, ie one that’s guided by Spirit, never feels meagre and uninteresting. Even in my greatest despair I never felt that. At all times I felt the profound meaningfulness of the path I was on. I’d say ‘meagre and uninteresting’ are sure indicators that we are on a path that’s wrong for us, even though it may be a path that’s lauded by society.  

 

 

Edited by Yueya
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So grateful for this interaction. Even though it grated on me as it occurred. Everything I said is valid, I still stand by all of it. Whats different is I appreciate the irritation you provided as it caused me to reflect then meditate and I made an immense leap in awareness that I wouldn’t have without this.

 

Sometimes speed bumps slow you down. Other times they are ramps that help you bend the laws of time and space to achieve the seemingly impossible in an instant. Thank you all for your part in this.

 

I will say though, those of you who pat yourselves on the back because you removed all the contentious (to your current level of perception at least) elements from this forum really did yourself a disservice. In terms of evolution, insight and cultivation as this all illustrates so well as I gained an immense amount of clarity from this friction. 

 

That made me a better person all round than I would’ve been without. Just imagine what you could’ve become had you not chased all the dragons out of town. Their presence could’ve trained you to be so much more if you let it and weren’t so quick to blame others for your inner interpretations of them.

 

If you old members are reading and lurking please come back and join the movement. Everyone wins when we all do what we do best. Remember if you’re “triggered” thats all on you, not the other person because its your inner realm. You should already be aware of that if you claim to cultivate but as I mentioned previously, lot of Chapstick surface level lip service flying around these days.

 

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Many authentic quotes can be found in Stephen Bachtlors After Buddhism as well as being an important read. 

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4 hours ago, Morphius said:

Many authentic quotes can be found in Stephen Bachtlors After Buddhism as well as being an important read. 

 

While the basis of them might be correct, there are not really ANY quotes that are likely to be authentically from the Buddha since he died hundreds of years before his earliest written works appeared. What the Buddhas suttas and sutras ARE is time-tested by millions of enlightened beings in the interim, which is why we can come to have some trust in their representation of the dharma. 

 

Stephen Batchelor is certainly worth reading as well.... for the same reason. :)

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On 3/20/2022 at 9:27 AM, stirling said:

 

While the basis of them might be correct, there are not really ANY quotes that are likely to be authentically from the Buddha since he died hundreds of years before his earliest written works appeared. 

 

 

Beg to differ.  

It's generally thought that Gautama's companion Ananda had a photographic memory for sound, and that the sermons in the Pali Canon that begin with "thus have I heard" (and there're a lot of them) were recounted by Ananda.

True that the books of sermons had to be committed to memory for something like five hundred years.  It's my understanding that memorizing a book was a requirement to be ordained, at one point in time, but I can't point to sources on that. 

 

However, there is repetition and similarity in the statements of the major points of the teaching throughout the sermons, and when you combine that with the uniqueness of what he said, his voice stands out.  When I quote from the Pali sermons, I make a point of only quoting from the sermons attributed to Gautama, and the reason for that is that the teaching in the hands of his disciples is subtly different.  It's made very clear, in the Canon, which sermons were Gautama's, and which were by a disciple.

The difficulty is that he is fundamentally teaching the cessation of willful activity, of intention, of deliberative action.  It's like looking at a star--"Stars disappear when you look directly at them because of the anatomy of the photoreceptors in your retina", copped that off the internet but it's true.  You cannot willfully cease willful action.  But in the meditative states, volitive activity ceases, first in speech, then in deed (the body), then in perception and sensation (the mind).  And how are the states attained?  "By lack of desire; by means of lack of desire".   Just sitting, anyone?

There is nothing like it anywhere in the rest of the religious literature of the world.  Even if it wasn't Gautama the Shakyan that gave us the teaching in the Pali sermons, they are still one of a kind.

"The cessation of (determinate thought in) in-breathing and out-breathing" is synonymous with the induction of the fourth meditative state.  This is the cessation of intentional action of the body, but not the cessation of action.  So long as a person has not seen action of the body in the absence of volition, they can't believe that it can happen--they continue to believe "I am the doer, mine is the doer with regard to this consciousness-informed body".   

That is why Zen relies on an experience outside of scripture, and emphasizes teacher to student transmission. 

When I took judo, it was understood that every teacher has a particular throw that is their signature.  My teacher's was the sweep.  All of his students mastered the sweep, but it wasn't actually a conscious thing, even though we practiced it a lot.  Somehow we all picked up on his body English, and we got it.  

I practiced hypnosis in high school, and self-hypnosis.  I understood that it's possible for an outside suggestion to move the body, without the will of the subject.  Nevertheless, to discover that through strict attendance to the movement of breath, a suggestion could come from some part of me that would move the body without conscious intention, was the shock of my life.



 

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Posted (edited)

That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill.

 

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence birth… takes place.

 

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill.

 

(SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45)

 

 

Birth is anguish, old age and decay, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, woe, lamentation, and despair are ill. Not to get what one desires is ill. In short, the five groups based on grasping are ill.

 

(AN I 176, Pali Text Society Vol I pg 160)

 

First quote above, restated with “(in short,) the five groups” in place of “ill”:
 

That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence (of consciousness) takes place in the future, and herefrom (the five groups based on grasping come to be).

 

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence (arises the five groups of grasping).

 

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence (of consciousness) takes place in the future, and herefrom (no arising of the five groups takes place). Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill.

Edited by Mark Foote
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Posted (edited)

"The Enlightened One is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the ocean."
the buddha

This is a genuine quote from Buddhist scriptures. It is from Saṃyutta Nikaya, 44.1.

 

 

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Edited by Eduardo
Clarification

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1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

Beg to differ.  

It's generally thought that Gautama's companion Ananda had a photographic memory for sound, and that the sermons in the Pali Canon that begin with "thus have I heard" (and there're a lot of them) were recounted by Ananda.

True that the books of sermons had to be committed to memory for something like five hundred years.  It's my understanding that memorizing a book was a requirement to be ordained, at one point in time, but I can't point to sources on that.

 

You are most welcome to differ, of course. However I don't buy it. :)

 

Having said that, I should also say that I DON'T CARE whether Prajna comes from the Buddha or Lao Tzu. IMHO what is actually important about the teachings is that they have successfully led countless "beings" to see through their delusions and become Arhats themselves, and thus the essence of the Wisdom contained in them has been continued to be shared and the body of teachings from new and culturally appropriate "skillful means" has continued to broaden. 

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For me this line of discussion is a very important one.

How can we trust words written hundreds or thousands of years ago?

How to know who actually wrote them and how accurately they've been documented and passed along; especially when they've been translated from foreign languages, perhaps through multiple iterations?

It doesn't matter if it is Jesus, Buddha, Moses, or Laozi.

How to even know for certain that the individual ever existed?

 

For me this is the importance of transmission.

When you come into direct, personal contact with a lineage representative and feel their love, observe their behavior, and recognize the fruition of the tradition in their body, speech, and mind, then you know.

You see and feel the teaching. You practice and experience it yourself.

Then you realize the meaning in the words and know the truth they represent.

At this level the truth that is the core of all of the different wisdom traditions shines and is undeniable.

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We veer a tad off topic, in discussing the authenticity of the quotes rather than offering the quotes themselves.  Nevertheless!

As I mentioned, for me, the material in the sermons of the Pali Canon have few parallels in the literature of the world, religious or otherwise.  The sermons detail stages in the abandonment of volition that I have only found described elsewhere in the classics of Tai Chi (possibly in the Gospel of Thomas?), and they describe a way of living that has no parallel description anywhere to my knowledge.

I recognize that there are many teachers in the past and in the modern era who have been assumed by those who came into contact with them to have experienced an enlightenment like that of Gautama the Shakyan.  One of the conclusions I've reached from studying the Canon sermons and from accounts of modern teachers is that the experience necessary for the Gautamid's way of living is not the same as the experience that accompanied Gautama's enlightenment.  

Certainly we have the sermon in the Canon that describes the two teachers Gautama studied under, and how he mastered their teachings but was yet unsatisfied.  Would most of us have regarded those teachers as enlightened?  I think so.  Was their "enlightenment" based on having had the enlightenment experience Gautama eventually had?  No.

I summarize this in my latest post (on Zazen Notes):


I think most of the teachers regarded as enlightened since Gautama have an intimate familiarity with the elements of mindfulness in Gautama’s way of living, whether they understand those elements through the teachings of Gautama or otherwise, and they have faith that the rhythm of those elements in daily life is the path.

 

Steve writes:  "You see and feel the teaching".  I do know what that feels like, to be in the presence of someone who carries themselves with an almost supernatural grace, but we have a lot of examples, especially here in the West, of a disconnect between the kind of mastery most of us associate with enlightenment and the behavior of the teacher in private. 

 

People want to feel that they can, through their own efforts or through devotion to another, turn a corner and be the master of their own destiny.  I do think experience of the cessation of volitive/habitual activity in in-breathing and out-breathing is a necessary part of the way of living Gautama described as his own, and that some people master that cessation and consequently become very adept at a way of living that embodies a certain grace. 

 

I also think that as with the two teachers Gautama studied under, there are degrees of "enlightenment", although experience of "the cessation of (determinate thought in) action of the body" may be common to all of them.  I do believe the physical presence of a teacher can be invaluable in precipitating an experience of such a cessation, and that a person's life can change as a result of the experience, but that doesn't say that they can successfully find a way of living that incorporates the experience, such as Gautama described.  

Just means their life is ruined, and they have to find a way to pick up the pieces, but somehow people don't seem to want to aspire to that.

 

 

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7 hours ago, steve said:

For me this line of discussion is a very important one.

How can we trust words written hundreds or thousands of years ago?

How to know who actually wrote them and how accurately they've been documented and passed along; especially when they've been translated from foreign languages, perhaps through multiple iterations?

It doesn't matter if it is Jesus, Buddha, Moses, or Laozi.

How to even know for certain that the individual ever existed?

 

For me this is the importance of transmission.

When you come into direct, personal contact with a lineage representative and feel their love, observe their behavior, and recognize the fruition of the tradition in their body, speech, and mind, then you know.

You see and feel the teaching. You practice and experience it yourself.

Then you realize the meaning in the words and know the truth they represent.

At this level the truth that is the core of all of the different wisdom traditions shines and is undeniable.

So poignantly resonant... and the timing for me, stunning.

Thank you for sharing! 

*bow*

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This one is my favorite:

“Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love this is the eternal rule.”

By Siddhārtha Gautama, or simply known as the Buddha.

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