Thunder_Gooch

Semen Retention Increases Testosterone Levels by 45.7% after 7 days

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It says a clear peak, not plateau. The peak is a fluctuation, it returns back to baseline.

 

Yea so basically I interpret from your post that let's say your baseline is 1. After 7 days the testosterone goes to 1.5. On the 8th day it just goes back to 1.

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Yea so basically I interpret from your post that let's say your baseline is 1. After 7 days the testosterone goes to 1.5. On the 8th day it just goes back to 1.

Yea, it's a surge of testosterone for a short amount of time. Base level of testosterone remains the same all the time. The peak only signifies the highest recorded serum testosterone for the day compared to the baseline.

 

The study says there's a significant fluctuation of serum testosterone on the 7th day then none thereafter.

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I wonder if these people were also told not to masturbate at all, as in no self stimulation.

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this meets my experience also...

 

BUT, there's also a "use it or lose it period" also... That maybe that center shuts down after not being 'utilised'.

 

I know that an occassional nut can be good for the soul ;)

 

In KAP they talk about once a month ejaculating... that seems like a good happy medium... all jacked up on testosterone but still keeping the "pipes clean"... :D

 

Can I hear more on this?

Once a month ejaculation?

I think it's interesting.

Cleaning the "pipes."

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From another study on the same page as the original link:

 

 

Endocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm in healthy men following a 3-week sexual abstinence.

Exton MS, Krüger TH, Bursch N, Haake P, Knapp W, Schedlowski M, Hartmann U.

Source

 

Institut für Medizinische Psychologie, Universitätsklinikum Essen, Germany.

 

michael.exton@uni-essen.de

Abstract

 

This current study examined the effect of a 3-week period of sexual abstinence on the neuroendocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm. Hormonal and cardiovascular parameters were examined in ten healthy adult men during sexual arousal and masturbation-induced orgasm. Blood was drawn continuously and cardiovascular parameters were constantly monitored. This procedure was conducted for each participant twice, both before and after a 3-week period of sexual abstinence. Plasma was subsequently analysed for concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, prolactin, luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations. Orgasm increased blood pressure, heart rate, plasma catecholamines and prolactin. These effects were observed both before and after sexual abstinence. In contrast, although plasma testosterone was unaltered by orgasm, higher testosterone concentrations were observed following the period of abstinence. These data demonstrate that acute abstinence does not change the neuroendocrine response to orgasm but does produce elevated levels of testosterone in males.

 

 

"These data demonstrate that acute abstinence does not change the neuroendocrine response to orgasm but does produce elevated levels of testosterone in males."

 

I think this upholds the interpretation that the peak was not not a fluctuation but rather the highest that the level got...

Edited by Harmonious Emptiness
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Can I hear more on this?

Once a month ejaculation?

I think it's interesting.

Cleaning the "pipes."

 

And more importantly, do they (KAP) have any science on this, is it a historical lineage thing, Chinese or Ayurvedic text, or is it something they just came up with ??

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It's 2 different studies and they really mean fluctuation when they say fluctuation. But still, your paper is GOOD NEWS.

 

KdcaV.png

 

Full papers:

 

http://www.zju.edu.cn/jzus/2003/0302/030219.pdf

 

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Endocrine_Response_to_Masturbation-Induced_Orgasm_in_Healthy_Men_Following_a_3-Week_Sexual_Abstinence.pdf

 

 

and notice that testosterone levels continue to drop through day 16. it would be interesting to see what happens over the course of a year. If it ever comes back up, or if the body, in use it or lose it mode, keeps dropping the level.

 

Non, perhaps in your desire to practice retention you've thrown yourself into chemical imbalance ??

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Back when I tried practicing retention for a three week period I did notice a nice boost in energy and willpower after roughly four days. After 10 days though the benefits quickly died out and I became more frustrated and needy than normal.

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whoa.. I'm in NO WAY the KAP spokesperson or posterboy by any means...

 

I just remember Santiago (from his posts here, of some videos or KAP classes) talking about how people went overboard with "retention" and that it was alright to ejaculate like once a month... Just direct that energy towards the greatest good.

 

This coincides with my personal experience also... when I had long periods of retention (without proper accompanying cultivation) it felt like the whole system shut down.

 

Now, going to the other extreme and busting multiple nuts a day is (in my experience, and according to the literature) draining for sure... So it's a balance...

 

There's shit you can problably do to Re-Direct that energy more effectively than just not nutting. I wonder what the study would show for dudes who did that Deer Exercise or something like that... You know; Proper retention practices

 

...a side note on KAP; supposedly in higher levels they teach you how to absord the chi from sperm after it leaves your body. This is mere conjecture on my part and have not been instructed nor witnessed this... I really wish other KAPers would join in with their experiences cuz I'm not a good representative for the whole system.

 

Edit: I remember also on the AYP forums someone recommending once a month as a happy medium between being "ejaculation-crazy" and "retention-crazy". It makes sense...

Edited by 3L3VAT3

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whoa.. I'm in NO WAY the KAP spokesperson or posterboy by any means...

 

I just remember Santiago (from his posts here, of some videos or KAP classes) talking about how people went overboard with "retention" and that it was alright to ejaculate like once a month... Just direct that energy towards the greatest good.

 

This coincides with my personal experience also... when I had long periods of retention (without proper accompanying cultivation) it felt like the whole system shut down.

 

Now, going to the other extreme and busting multiple nuts a day is (in my experience, and according to the literature) draining for sure... So it's a balance...

 

There's shit you can problably do to Re-Direct that energy more effectively than just not nutting. I wonder what the study would show for dudes who did that Deer Exercise or something like that... You know; Proper retention practices

 

...a side note on KAP; supposedly in higher levels they teach you how to absord the chi from sperm after it leaves your body. This is mere conjecture on my part and have not been instructed nor witnessed this... I really wish other KAPers would join in with their experiences cuz I'm not a good representative for the whole system.

 

Edit: I remember also on the AYP forums someone recommending once a month as a happy medium between being "ejaculation-crazy" and "retention-crazy". It makes sense...

 

"The system broke down" ??

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"The system broke down" ??

Yeah it felt literally like "use it or lose it"

...now this was due to medication issues partly but it seemed to just shut down.

 

There's a lot of guys on the boards who talk about people going way too far with retention and do serious damage to their bodies. I think this can be true.

 

Like with most things; balance is good. Not too little, not too much. ;)

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the only time i feel irritated while doing semen retention is if i do not circulate the energy by doing the MCO...after then i start to feel lively again

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the only time i feel irritated while doing semen retention is if i do not circulate the energy by doing the MCO...after then i start to feel lively again

 

you aren't supposed to do retention and MCO at least to best of my knowledge.

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you aren't supposed to do retention and MCO at least to best of my knowledge.

 

do you know why not?

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Misleading title.

 

It should read "semen retention, after ejaculation, increases testosterone levels TEMPORARILY by X%"

 

The studies prove the increase is not permanent. In order to attain the "spike" in testosterone again it is logical to conclude that one would need to ejalculate and then wait another 7 days.

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i remember reading about this a year or 2 back, and as I was still in my weightlifting phase, I thought "Cool! If I can increase free T like this it'll be like being on steroids!"

 

Now, I'm wondering why I even cared...

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you aren't supposed to do retention and MCO at least to best of my knowledge.

I probably shouldn't be responding to a banned poster, but Yang Jwing Ming wrote an entire book about the Microcosmic Orbit, called Qigong Meditation: Small Circulation, where he is adamant about retaining semen for 100 days during the process of creating the spiritual embryo.

 

(Edit: And never mind the vast body of work left by Mantak Chia, which basically introduced the MCO to the west, and deals extensively with retaining semen during coitus and the masturbatory act.)

 

the only time i feel irritated while doing semen retention is if i do not circulate the energy by doing the MCO...after then i start to feel lively again

I haven't been on the path of retention for very long, but I can attest to this as well. Now that I'm cycling the MCO everyday, I don't experience any of the hormonal agitation I did when I had gone extended periods without ejaculating where I wasn't doing any qigong.

Edited by katsura

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One more note, I don't necessarily think we should take testosterone as the scientific equivalent of jing chi, which I think is an assumption underlying a lot of the discussion here. It may be that the testosterone hormone spikes and plateaus after seven days, but that doesn't necessarily mean extended celibacy has no relevance to qigong.

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Obviously celibacy is crucial to the training - anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. I've had no emissions since April I think - I would have to check my practice journal - April I'm sure. It's the longest I've gone that I remember at least while I've been keeping track. As for building up jing qi - it's all based on how much energy you lose and energy is lost as "jang qi" or "yin qi" also - it goes out my eyes via my pineal gland. So I burn off my life force energy into chi energy but that's not the same as storing up qi energy. To store it up you need to make sure to protect yourself from sources that take your energy - otherwise you're just healing people. haha. But to do serious healing you have to store up enough "yin chi" to fill up the lower tan tien to activate the "yang qi."

 

Also the term "retention" is wrong since the goal is to never create fluid in the first place - you ionize and burn of and any wrong thoughts creates fluid - so you have to use mind emptiness - mind celibacy first. This is detailed in "Taoist Yoga; Alchemy and Immortality" book.

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Also the term "retention" is wrong since the goal is to never create fluid in the first place.

This I can understand, however it requires much training for me atleast :D

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Yeah it felt literally like "use it or lose it"

...now this was due to medication issues partly but it seemed to just shut down.

 

There's a lot of guys on the boards who talk about people going way too far with retention and do serious damage to their bodies. I think this can be true.

 

Like with most things; balance is good. Not too little, not too much. wink.gif

 

Totally agree with this. Recently, I went on a 92 day streak of masturbation abstinence. First two week were nice, yet around day 72 I felt like I did not have that testosterone energy anymore. I tried masturbation on day 92, and on day 7 I did not get a testosterone spike. It felt like it stayed the same.

 

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Call me an abstinence lightweight, when I go past 8 or 9 days, I get angrier, less patient. I'm increasingly negative, I want woman/sex but my thoughts about them turn a little darker. After 2 1/2 weeks of abstinence I get a bit more even, maybe even a dullness. The day of and a few days after sex I'm clear and happy, then the cycle begins. It probably is a testosterone thing, a hormonal cycle both powerful and subtle.

 

I'm at my happiest having sex twice a week.

 

edit add> Its like men have a 'PMS' cycle tied to ejaculation.

 

So many eastern traditions have 100 day gung celibacy rules that there must be something to it. Couse without a holistic system to transmute such retention into spirit/energy/whatever it can create more problems then it solves.

Edited by thelerner
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If the goal is to increase testosterone, then sexual abstinence will not accomplish this goal.

 

The testosterone spike they are seeing at roughly 7 days is temporary, and is a spike in hormonal compensation. With further abstinence, testosterone levels will drop lower.

 

Also, hormone levels, sexual desire, and so forth, are directly related to dietary intake and activity of all sorts. Reproduction is a casting off of excess. Starvation pretty much brings sexual activity to a halt.

 

So attempting to practice "controlling" various hormonal functions without proper attention to environmental intake as food can result in imbalance and conundrums of logic.

 

Of course, the same thing goes for "medications", and there are many medications that can make qigong practices into a sort of irrational circus routine.

 

But basically: Abstaining from walking does not produce strong leg muscles.

 

The key to "controlling" hormonal functions is in understanding what they are and how/why they arise. Without that, "controlling" is just an idea, and any practices that result could be just so much back-and-forth and devoid of logic.

 

For example - eating hormone-treated tortured animal bodies produces excessive protein intake and possible hormonal imbalances that are not most efficiently addressed by any form of posture or exercise as much as they would be by just not eating like that.

 

There are many foods and chemicals being continually consumed by rote which produce results in the human body at odds with any past or current goals of internal cultivation. None of us will be able to exercise these away.

 

So many are building structures out of themselves that they must then try to erase or change in order to progress in human development. This is counter-productive. The amount of activity necessary to redress these biological contortions is beyond the capabilities of any style of QiGong.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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