What is the point

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you don't like that option, that means there is some meaning you've given to your life...a reason for getting up!

 

What is that?

 

To find the meaning in life. To become incredibly rich, immortal, and have hot steamy sex all day with various beautiful women

 

But that doesn't mean that there IS a meaning in life.

 

And it doesn't mean that my meaning will be the same as another person's.

 

There may be one overarching meaning (what I personally think), but then again, there might not be, I might be fooling myself, and I freely admit it.

 

Which is, again, why threads like this irk me...... "What's the point of health if your life is cluttered"?

 

Obviously there is meaning to the person seeking health, and unless they complain about their life being cluttered, then they don't think it is and they can do without your judgments.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

"The meaning of life" is a linguistic construct.

 

That it is. We use these linguistic constructs to communicate points and meaning to others. Without a point, what's the use of discussion?

 

"False objects" are just concepts, which help in constructing a point. Each concept can portray a lot of meaning...that's why there are multiple definitions given in dictionaries, because one word doesn't always mean one thing, and it isn't always referring to an object in "space" (another concept).

 

It is totally valid to use concepts and objects together...this is how people talk.

 

However, none of this talk has to do with what's actually being discussed in this topic...Hagar's video was more to the point.

[mouse]

 

The point was to cut to the heart of the matter: what satisfies us?

 

 

Hey Scotty,

 

Just to answer to the heart of your line of query- nothing in the realm of samsara can satisfy us.

 

All phenomena in samsara is impermanent and thus cannot be depended upon.

 

Which is why many people practice to cut the defilements in the hearts that form more attachments to bind us to this impermanent existance.

 

Impermance is impermanent as well, if you practice the right way.

 

From my point of view, englightenment is to purify the heart and cleanse the mind of attachments. Nothing to do with feeling sexually powerful or filled with Chi which many here attribute to an enlightened being.

 

All the best with your practice!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Applying meaning to something is to attach to it. And with that attachment, oppositions, preferences, egos, judgments, suffering all that stupid stuff comes to rise. And yes, this is the only meaning that is worth noting. That everything is without true essential value, empty, and subjective.

 

So make meaningless the only meaning. Turn the mirror around. Then start off in the other direction.

 

If there was a set "meaning" or "purpose" or a direction to any of this, it would be a binded existence. Existence has no permanence, except to continuously morph and change.

[gendao]

Once you become enlightened, what then?

Good question for AugustLeo. After the Big Realization after decades of practice...now what?

 

How is your life, your health, your "experience" now? Do you feel fulfilled? Is there anything else "you" still seek? Was it all it was cracked up to be? Would you have done anything differently?

[Aetherous]

How is your life, your health, your "experience" now? Do you feel fulfilled? Is there anything else "you" still seek? Was it all it was cracked up to be? Would you have done anything differently?

 

Yes!

 

You and Hagar both "got it", I think. Maybe Unconditioned, too.

 

This is good for everyone to consider. It's good to be able to toss all the spiritual shit out from our minds, and think clearly about our lives and the meaning we give it.

 

To snap out of it!

[Ya Mu]

I'm just a little frustrated with how a lot of Western Taoists focus mostly on the medical and sexual practices, and hardly ever make mention of the spiritual practices. Even when you come to this site you're hit with a huge "AUTHENTIC SEXUAL POWER" banner at the top of the page. Taoism is much deeper than that.

...

 

I agree. Although the medical practice I teach and practice is entirely derived from and applied by the Spiritual practice that I teach and practice; they are inherently intertwined.

 

I sincerely do not agree with the "life is meaningless" bunch. Life is Sacred.

[Birch]

Hey Scott!

 

I'm presently playing with the removal of meaning. From everything. Funnily enough, life has this way of touching me even deeper since.

 

I hope you're ok and not going through a trough.

 

Kate

[ralis]

I agree. Although the medical practice I teach and practice is entirely derived from and applied by the Spiritual practice that I teach and practice; they are inherently intertwined.

 

I sincerely do not agree with the "life is meaningless" bunch. Life is Sacred.

 

 

Is sacred a universal concept or an anthropocentric point of view? If universal, then who decides?

 

ralis

[ralis]

A few people have mentioned that meditation is futile and just robs one of life and creativity. I beg to differ! John McLaughlin was a devoted meditator when Mahavishnu Orchestra was formed. His works are pure genius! No one is more accomplished on the guitar! Listen to this.

 

 

 

 

ralis

Edited November 24, 2009 by ralis

[宁]

one of the great lessons that comes with having kids is that

you will be surpassed

 

not only will they benefit from your resources but from your failure as well

and on top they come with at least double times the potency of either parent

Im normally very sceptical to comparison it being a fake tool but in this light..

 

if meditation and qigong can help each of us to eliminate bad karma..

and speed up this positive spiraling

 

what's meaningless?

 

good post, rain

 

people that live only for themselves eventually find life meaningless...

we were not build to be lonely basterds...

but kids kinda help you get over that...

they help you back changing your view, forever...

[Aetherous]

Hey sis.

 

[rain]

good post, rain

 

people that live only for themselves eventually find life meaningless...

we were not build to be lonely basterds...

but kids kinda help you get over that...

they help you back changing your view, forever...

 

yes Little1

 

if this ain't pointing towards The Magic what is

[C T]

 

 

I'm presently playing with the removal of meaning. From everything. Funnily enough, life has this way of touching me even deeper since.

 

Kate

 

Yes, i believe this is the only way to experience 'renewal' in each moment - by discarding the habitual need to meaning-fy every aspect of one's Being. Waste of energy.

 

The Now is neither meaningFull or meaningLess. It just is..

 

All the best.

[Ya Mu]

Is sacred a universal concept or an anthropocentric point of view? If universal, then who decides?

 

ralis

 

Of course Sacred is a universal concept. Who decides? YOU!

It is much easier to tune in to the universal Sacredness (true wu wei) when a person awakens to who they really are. Anyone that thinks life is meaningless has not done so. When one does this then each and every action is synchronous rather than chaotic.

Compassion is the true superpower!

[Aetherous]

...when a person awakens to who they really are. Anyone that thinks life is meaningless has not done so.

 

Nice.

 

Yes, i believe this is the only way to experience 'renewal' in each moment - by discarding the habitual need to meaning-fy every aspect of one's Being. Waste of energy.

 

I agree. Also, holding to the following belief is another waste of energy...

 

The Now is neither meaningFull or meaningLess. It just is..

 

The point of all spiritual philosophy is not that the unawakened mind can be correct in its knowledge. It's simply to awaken.

 

"You, monks, should not thus cultivate the notion of impermanence, suffering and non-Self, the notion of impurity and so forth, deeming them to be the true meaning of the Dharma, as those people searching in a pool for a radiant gem did, each thinking that bits of brick, stones, grass and gravel were the jewel. You should train yourselves well in efficacious means. In every situation, constantly meditate upon the idea of the Self, the idea of the Eternal, the Bliss, and the Pure ... Those who, desirous of attaining Reality, meditatatively cultivate these ideas, namely, the ideas of the Self, the Eternal, the Bliss, and the Pure, will skilfully bring forth the jewel, just like that wise person who obtained the genuine, priceless gem, rather than worthless detritus misperceived as the real thing."

 

- The Buddha, Chapter Three, The Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra

[C T]

Nice.

I agree. Also, holding to the following belief is another waste of energy...

The point of all spiritual philosophy is not that the unawakened mind can be correct in its knowledge. It's simply to awaken.

 

"You, monks, should not thus cultivate the notion of impermanence, suffering and non-Self, the notion of impurity and so forth, deeming them to be the true meaning of the Dharma, as those people searching in a pool for a radiant gem did, each thinking that bits of brick, stones, grass and gravel were the jewel. You should train yourselves well in efficacious means. In every situation, constantly meditate upon the idea of the Self, the idea of the Eternal, the Bliss, and the Pure ... Those who, desirous of attaining Reality, meditatatively cultivate these ideas, namely, the ideas of the Self, the Eternal, the Bliss, and the Pure, will skilfully bring forth the jewel, just like that wise person who obtained the genuine, priceless gem, rather than worthless detritus misperceived as the real thing."

 

- The Buddha, Chapter Three, The Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra

Ah! Indeed the whole point is to simply awaken! Excellent point btw. In this very moment -- now, now, now, X inifinity. Lose the Now, and the equilibrium starts to vibrate, and the stillness goes, ever so slowly, either contracting back to the past, or expanding out to the future, both states in which most of those who seek meaning spend their entire lives in. When mindfulness is cultivated, one becomes more aware and attuned to seeing when this *pendulum of Nowness* begins to sway, so with the cultivation of means, have the know-how to then bring it back into stillness, or focus.

 

IMO, mindfulness training precedes cultivating 'external' methods. I think most people do it the other way.. trying all sorts of things with the eventual aim of pacifying the Mind, or some do the two simultaneously, both of which may work, but i feel it requires that much more effort. When the Mind is stabilized first and foremost in mindful attention, every endeavor can then be seen with clarity, without the usual overlays and all that jazzy stuff.

[witch]

Even a baby knows the answer to this question--to love and be loved

[Aetherous]

I'm impressed, Witch. Great answer.

[hagar]

"The meaning of life" is a linguistic construct. Some languages are better equipped to fabricate such artificial constructs than others. To create such a construct, one has to place "meaning" and "life" in such a grammatical relation to each other that one becomes a separable attribute of the other. These separating/fragmenting grammatical attributions work well when we are dealing with objects that have shape in space (i.e. are more or less "solid" from the POV of direct human perception, not on any philosophical or quantum level but on the level of direct and immediate human senses). These grammatical structures help us separate solid objects into distinct "sub-objects," parts, pieces that can be viewed as different from each other though embedded within the same shape. E.g., "the yolk of the egg," "the pit of the cherry," the back of the chair," "the claws of the cat." This works well with objects that have shape in space.

 

Now when we apply this grammatical construction to processes that don't have shape in space -- life, love, faith, anger, orgasm, intelligence, wisdom, stupidity, terrorism, etc. -- we create a false object in order to apply the imaginary cut-off of the "of" to its imaginary boundaries separating it from its imaginary something else -- e.g. "meaning." "The meaning of life" would be possible the way "the pit of the cherry" is possible if "meaning" was a separate object embedded in another object, "life." Then we could use the imaginary knife of the "of" (or the spoon, as the spoon taoists would prefer) to cut one off from the other, or scoop one out of the other, as the case may be. This is only possible due to peculiarities of Indo-European languages whose grammar does not prevent handling a process that has no shape as an object that does.

 

But just because this is something that's happening in a language doesn't mean it can be happening anywhere else. In actuality, it can't. The grammar of objectifying processes lies. No need to even consider such constructs, really, because they express nothing in particular, they express a figment of grammatically facilitated unreality. Neither "life" nor "meaning" are objects with one embedded into the other. When we present them as such via a grammatical relationship expressed in "the meaning of life" combo, we are pretending they are, and then split hairs about something that doesn't even exist?.. No need, really. Life and meaning are never in the "of" relationship anymore than "the claws of the egg" or "the cherry of hair."

TaoMeow.

 

Ive always enjoyed your posts.

If I may be so bold; you seem to be well versed in post-constructalist thought. You're not into the whole Saussurean notion of expression and expressed, sign and signifier? And moreover, Semiotics?

 

h

[Owledge]

I want to reincarnate in the Star Trek or Star Wars universe. That would be incredible!

If it's the new Abrams version of Star Trek, you probably would be totally confused and still see no point or sense in that absurd life.

 

@Taomeow

You sound like you could develop a programming language. Makes me think that this x-of-y is just a popular misuse like so many others in our language. Weird, crazy, creative playing with language.

 

I sincerely do not agree with the "life is meaningless" bunch. Life is Sacred.

What does "sacred" mean? Isn't it just another 'empty' concept?

 

@Scotty

Did you ever watch Monty Python's The Meaning of Life?

Edited November 24, 2009 by Hardyg

[steve]

"What is the point?"

 

What is the point of a sunset?

What is the meaning of a bird's song?

We only look for the meaning of life when we are not living.

[ralis]

If it's the new Abrams version of Star Trek, you probably would be totally confused and still see no point or sense in that absurd life.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking more along the line of "The Next Generation"

 

ralis

[Owledge]

On a second thought, it could also be very enjoyable because of an astoundingly high degree of synchronicity or good luck. But then again...I guess too many lucky coincidences could make life boring.

 

Personally I abandoned dreams of living in ficticious realities. I rather want to bring this one closer to the fictitious ones.

[Aetherous]

We only look for the meaning of life when we are not living.

 

Steve gets it.

 

Hardyg,

 

Did you ever watch Monty Python's The Meaning of Life?

 

No, I've only seen the Holy Grail.