r.w.smith

Attention! Letter From David Verdesi Regarding Wang Liping

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Hi there Everybody.

 

I just recieved a private message from a trusted source. What im about to post was recently posted on Davids Foundation Forum. The person wanted this matter bought to the attention of everybody here,So out of respect for him i will re-post it and leave his name out.

 

I think its clear to one & all to see the bitterness of David. I feel simply its because he cannot monopolize on Wang Liping any longer.

 

Thanks & Enjoy :D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The new Daoism wave, Liping and students

 

Thread Started on Nov 6, 2008, 7:16am

 

the matters at hand is the seemingly rebirth of Daoism in China, this is as mentioned a while ago part of a long term plan for the reintroduction of religious value in the communist structure of chinese politic, pedagogy and society at large. Suffering from the constant sense of comparison and inferiority complex and also becoming harder and harder to deny the need of the masses for more then just moralism ( see the surge of qigong sects and both islam and christianity) a slow process started in 90's of preparing the ground for the rebirth of religion, that is autoctonous religion, i.e. Daoism in China.

 

Liping is the man for the job that is his destiny and as i mentioned already a couple of years ago, the Olympics would sign the official opening of the gates. Liping will become more and more a public persona with huge government support propaganda behind and the cream of china intellectuals to back up the operation, the goal is simple, Daoism to everybody for the pride of the state, this they realize cannot happen without including westerners, they are eventually surrendering to the reality that there is more to the world then just China and its walls, globalization has hit the mark.

 

as i was with him there in the last 4 years of transition have seen changes and event from a relatively good sightpoint.

 

i must say to a great extent his biography (written in 92-93) and all the followed, (1 books and a collection of articles) has been part of a well thought plan of propaganda of the new daoism and his pope, Liping.

 

...

 

Liping has always been very straight, at the beginning of each class i presented to, private or public he clearly stated he teaches the religious aspect of Daoism belonging to the mountain or hermit tradition, this alone is a statement made in a very chinese way that says: forget ever achieving it, this is a tease.

 

...

 

(here Liping play the game for he caress people ego saying things without saying,giving the easy impression things are bigger then they are whent it comes to some of his students, is very sweet, excellent didactic to put people up and commend them, but when getting the hard facts, i found lots of inconsistence or anedoct at best or in most cases those unique peak which happened only once or twice in the person practice career)

 

...

 

his destiny is to reveal the techincal aspect of his tradition, to show that everyone can practice it no matter who or what because will "make you youthful" and be "good for you" will "heal you" and the usual kind of lets admit it empty meaningless promises you all heard 1000 times before, (not that they do not deliver to a certain extent and for certain people)

 

...

 

Along with Anna we were the only 2 foreigners at a highly secretive meeting od advance students and senior practitioner only (please take a bit of the sarcasm in the word advanced) around 150 people who follow him since the 80's 40 of those supposedly with balls so to speak....i spare you the sadness and disillusion but will mention that i do happen to know shen zhi gan who took great pride in telling me how much he knows and how many books he wrote and that he makes froums blogs and god knows to spread Daoism, commendable...unluckily big mouth but not much essence (plus in 10 days of retreat caught him 3 times drunk out in the night, out of seedy karaoke nothing wrong i love those places, but then don't play the pure, sinless, desireless and near enlighted dude during the day) and lots lots of both conceptual and personal....concepts made of him and a couple of others (lu ya ping) in the 10 days there a gathering of zealots.

 

Furthermore aside being a fanatic zealot he does truly exagerate and make real, things which are not, unforgivable in this field (like people having all kind of miracle opening the "orbit" the 3 eye and such and so, mostly as usual just sensationalistic experiences, induced by Ling, Shen or of Qi but again to feel something is not to have achieved it) was very disappointing, to see them take distances from phenomena like Falun gong or similar just to mention) but then faling in the same trap of feel good great experience kind of thing confused with actully achieving it. The top was reached as i was bugging some of the loud mouth among them to prove their achievement, but nobody could, they all went crying to Liping for having hurt their...shall we say ego? and made then loose face, once Shen Zhi Gan and Lu Ya Ping looked at me and said, "ohh your channels are close and you have no qi even if i show you, you would not feel it ? i had a good laugh about it (i just passed the yin yang gong test) but truly quite sad in fact. and most of the so called great things they witnessed are merely more then of the usual mass effect (still definetely some incredible healing yes and random miracolous Ling events but then again this is something different and no need to go to china for that, shall we mention many great Christian charismatig mass healing and divine revelations?)

 

Of the old students i interviewed only 1 did actually pass the test and has achieved some actual results, but could not show it because he needs 3 months of celibacy and 1 months of being vegetarian to prepare for a demo.... i mean...COME ON, and few others did succeed in enter a lesser Ding (of 15 hours is like a 15 hours samadhi, remarkable but...after 20 years of meditating 4 hours a day not so impressive) but still not the xiao ding necessary to practice death and real Shen transformation (72 hours).

 

...

 

Still definetely he and a couple of others have been around Liping for long time and have gathered lots of technical informations of mixed value. Unlukily the all operation is turning in to a manualistic kind of glorified mantak chia, technicism without depth. was quite a disappointment for me personally.

 

...

 

David

 

 

***

 

 

QUOTE

changes

 

Thread Started on Oct 15, 2008, 8:11am

 

Dear All

 

after a long while its time again to write here again.

 

...

 

The reason for me to write is to announce something which am sure will stir some waters. In brief recent events brought the beginning of a new journey, having achieved that which sparked the all search and having being guided by those of the Miao Tong Dao whom i remit to, its time for me to open the doors to those of you with interest and means directly to a couple of teachers which are to become important figures in the years to come.

 

Having spoken and agreed with both Jiang and Liping on the matter im happy to be the

 

Guan Xi for those of you who will want to study under them directly not just as outsiders or public students but having access to them privately and to the teachings they will be willing to share.

 

those of you interested PM me personally.

 

Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

 

the introduction will be formal and sealed which implies your direct access to the masters and the teaching in private form and will of course comes with my support and teaching as well if required.

 

...

 

David

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Hi there Everybody.

 

I just recieved a private message from a trusted source. What im about to post was recently posted on Davids Foundation Forum. The person wanted this matter bought to the attention of everybody here,So out of respect for him i will re-post it and leave his name out.

 

I think its clear to one & all to see the bitterness of David. I feel simply its because he cannot monopolize on Wang Liping any longer.

 

Thanks & Enjoy :D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new Daoism wave, Liping and students

 

Thread Started on Nov 6, 2008, 7:16am

 

the matters at hand is the seemingly rebirth of Daoism in China, this is as mentioned a while ago part of a long term plan for the reintroduction of religious value in the communist structure of chinese politic, pedagogy and society at large. Suffering from the constant sense of comparison and inferiority complex and also becoming harder and harder to deny the need of the masses for more then just moralism ( see the surge of qigong sects and both islam and christianity) a slow process started in 90's of preparing the ground for the rebirth of religion, that is autoctonous religion, i.e. Daoism in China.

 

Liping is the man for the job that is his destiny and as i mentioned already a couple of years ago, the Olympics would sign the official opening of the gates. Liping will become more and more a public persona with huge government support propaganda behind and the cream of china intellectuals to back up the operation, the goal is simple, Daoism to everybody for the pride of the state, this they realize cannot happen without including westerners, they are eventually surrendering to the reality that there is more to the world then just China and its walls, globalization has hit the mark.

 

as i was with him there in the last 4 years of transition have seen changes and event from a relatively good sightpoint.

 

i must say to a great extent his biography (written in 92-93) and all the followed, (1 books and a collection of articles) has been part of a well thought plan of propaganda of the new daoism and his pope, Liping.

 

...

 

Liping has always been very straight, at the beginning of each class i presented to, private or public he clearly stated he teaches the religious aspect of Daoism belonging to the mountain or hermit tradition, this alone is a statement made in a very chinese way that says: forget ever achieving it, this is a tease.

 

...

 

(here Liping play the game for he caress people ego saying things without saying,giving the easy impression things are bigger then they are whent it comes to some of his students, is very sweet, excellent didactic to put people up and commend them, but when getting the hard facts, i found lots of inconsistence or anedoct at best or in most cases those unique peak which happened only once or twice in the person practice career)

 

...

 

his destiny is to reveal the techincal aspect of his tradition, to show that everyone can practice it no matter who or what because will "make you youthful" and be "good for you" will "heal you" and the usual kind of lets admit it empty meaningless promises you all heard 1000 times before, (not that they do not deliver to a certain extent and for certain people)

 

...

 

Along with Anna we were the only 2 foreigners at a highly secretive meeting od advance students and senior practitioner only (please take a bit of the sarcasm in the word advanced) around 150 people who follow him since the 80's 40 of those supposedly with balls so to speak....i spare you the sadness and disillusion but will mention that i do happen to know shen zhi gan who took great pride in telling me how much he knows and how many books he wrote and that he makes froums blogs and god knows to spread Daoism, commendable...unluckily big mouth but not much essence (plus in 10 days of retreat caught him 3 times drunk out in the night, out of seedy karaoke nothing wrong i love those places, but then don't play the pure, sinless, desireless and near enlighted dude during the day) and lots lots of both conceptual and personal....concepts made of him and a couple of others (lu ya ping) in the 10 days there a gathering of zealots.

 

Furthermore aside being a fanatic zealot he does truly exagerate and make real, things which are not, unforgivable in this field (like people having all kind of miracle opening the "orbit" the 3 eye and such and so, mostly as usual just sensationalistic experiences, induced by Ling, Shen or of Qi but again to feel something is not to have achieved it) was very disappointing, to see them take distances from phenomena like Falun gong or similar just to mention) but then faling in the same trap of feel good great experience kind of thing confused with actully achieving it. The top was reached as i was bugging some of the loud mouth among them to prove their achievement, but nobody could, they all went crying to Liping for having hurt their...shall we say ego? and made then loose face, once Shen Zhi Gan and Lu Ya Ping looked at me and said, "ohh your channels are close and you have no qi even if i show you, you would not feel it ? i had a good laugh about it (i just passed the yin yang gong test) but truly quite sad in fact. and most of the so called great things they witnessed are merely more then of the usual mass effect (still definetely some incredible healing yes and random miracolous Ling events but then again this is something different and no need to go to china for that, shall we mention many great Christian charismatig mass healing and divine revelations?)

 

Of the old students i interviewed only 1 did actually pass the test and has achieved some actual results, but could not show it because he needs 3 months of celibacy and 1 months of being vegetarian to prepare for a demo.... i mean...COME ON, and few others did succeed in enter a lesser Ding (of 15 hours is like a 15 hours samadhi, remarkable but...after 20 years of meditating 4 hours a day not so impressive) but still not the xiao ding necessary to practice death and real Shen transformation (72 hours).

 

...

 

Still definetely he and a couple of others have been around Liping for long time and have gathered lots of technical informations of mixed value. Unlukily the all operation is turning in to a manualistic kind of glorified mantak chia, technicism without depth. was quite a disappointment for me personally.

 

...

 

David

***

QUOTE

changes

 

Thread Started on Oct 15, 2008, 8:11am

 

Dear All

 

after a long while its time again to write here again.

 

...

 

The reason for me to write is to announce something which am sure will stir some waters. In brief recent events brought the beginning of a new journey, having achieved that which sparked the all search and having being guided by those of the Miao Tong Dao whom i remit to, its time for me to open the doors to those of you with interest and means directly to a couple of teachers which are to become important figures in the years to come.

 

Having spoken and agreed with both Jiang and Liping on the matter im happy to be the

 

Guan Xi for those of you who will want to study under them directly not just as outsiders or public students but having access to them privately and to the teachings they will be willing to share.

 

those of you interested PM me personally.

 

Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

 

the introduction will be formal and sealed which implies your direct access to the masters and the teaching in private form and will of course comes with my support and teaching as well if required.

 

...

 

David

Youch, this is getting ugly..

 

It appears that when DV was selling high-priced tickets to his WLP exhibit, he couldn't hype him up enough...

But after WLP refused his services as exclusive liaison to the world for exorbitant fees, now he's just a "Commy puppet."

 

Now, he might have some points that WLP's students don't live up to WLP's own level, but that would hold true in many, if not nearly all traditions...

 

I think this is where Buddhist ethics and detachment serve well to counterbalance Taoist tendencies towards an egoic desire for power.

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Thread Started on Nov 6, 2008, 7:16am

 

the matters at hand is the seemingly rebirth of Daoism in China, this is as mentioned a while ago part of a long term plan for the reintroduction of religious value in the communist structure of chinese politic, pedagogy and society at large. Suffering from the constant sense of comparison and inferiority complex and also becoming harder and harder to deny the need of the masses for more then just moralism ( see the surge of qigong sects and both islam and christianity) a slow process started in 90's of preparing the ground for the rebirth of religion, that is autoctonous religion, i.e. Daoism in China.

 

Liping is the man for the job that is his destiny and as i mentioned already a couple of years ago, the Olympics would sign the official opening of the gates. Liping will become more and more a public persona with huge government support propaganda behind and the cream of china intellectuals to back up the operation, the goal is simple, Daoism to everybody for the pride of the state, this they realize cannot happen without including westerners, they are eventually surrendering to the reality that there is more to the world then just China and its walls, globalization has hit the mark.

 

as i was with him there in the last 4 years of transition have seen changes and event from a relatively good sightpoint.

 

i must say to a great extent his biography (written in 92-93) and all the followed, (1 books and a collection of articles) has been part of a well thought plan of propaganda of the new daoism and his pope, Liping.

 

...

 

Liping has always been very straight, at the beginning of each class i presented to, private or public he clearly stated he teaches the religious aspect of Daoism belonging to the mountain or hermit tradition, this alone is a statement made in a very chinese way that says: forget ever achieving it, this is a tease.

 

...

 

(here Liping play the game for he caress people ego saying things without saying,giving the easy impression things are bigger then they are whent it comes to some of his students, is very sweet, excellent didactic to put people up and commend them, but when getting the hard facts, i found lots of inconsistence or anedoct at best or in most cases those unique peak which happened only once or twice in the person practice career)

 

...

 

his destiny is to reveal the techincal aspect of his tradition, to show that everyone can practice it no matter who or what because will "make you youthful" and be "good for you" will "heal you" and the usual kind of lets admit it empty meaningless promises you all heard 1000 times before, (not that they do not deliver to a certain extent and for certain people)

 

...

 

Along with Anna we were the only 2 foreigners at a highly secretive meeting od advance students and senior practitioner only (please take a bit of the sarcasm in the word advanced) around 150 people who follow him since the 80's 40 of those supposedly with balls so to speak....i spare you the sadness and disillusion but will mention that i do happen to know shen zhi gan who took great pride in telling me how much he knows and how many books he wrote and that he makes froums blogs and god knows to spread Daoism, commendable...unluckily big mouth but not much essence (plus in 10 days of retreat caught him 3 times drunk out in the night, out of seedy karaoke nothing wrong i love those places, but then don't play the pure, sinless, desireless and near enlighted dude during the day) and lots lots of both conceptual and personal....concepts made of him and a couple of others (lu ya ping) in the 10 days there a gathering of zealots.

 

Furthermore aside being a fanatic zealot he does truly exagerate and make real, things which are not, unforgivable in this field (like people having all kind of miracle opening the "orbit" the 3 eye and such and so, mostly as usual just sensationalistic experiences, induced by Ling, Shen or of Qi but again to feel something is not to have achieved it) was very disappointing, to see them take distances from phenomena like Falun gong or similar just to mention) but then faling in the same trap of feel good great experience kind of thing confused with actully achieving it. The top was reached as i was bugging some of the loud mouth among them to prove their achievement, but nobody could, they all went crying to Liping for having hurt their...shall we say ego? and made then loose face, once Shen Zhi Gan and Lu Ya Ping looked at me and said, "ohh your channels are close and you have no qi even if i show you, you would not feel it ? i had a good laugh about it (i just passed the yin yang gong test) but truly quite sad in fact. and most of the so called great things they witnessed are merely more then of the usual mass effect (still definetely some incredible healing yes and random miracolous Ling events but then again this is something different and no need to go to china for that, shall we mention many great Christian charismatig mass healing and divine revelations?)

 

Of the old students i interviewed only 1 did actually pass the test and has achieved some actual results, but could not show it because he needs 3 months of celibacy and 1 months of being vegetarian to prepare for a demo.... i mean...COME ON, and few others did succeed in enter a lesser Ding (of 15 hours is like a 15 hours samadhi, remarkable but...after 20 years of meditating 4 hours a day not so impressive) but still not the xiao ding necessary to practice death and real Shen transformation (72 hours).

 

...

 

Still definetely he and a couple of others have been around Liping for long time and have gathered lots of technical informations of mixed value. Unlukily the all operation is turning in to a manualistic kind of glorified mantak chia, technicism without depth. was quite a disappointment for me personally.

 

...

 

 

:blink: *shakes head* . I guess Verdesi has to resort to lies and slander to keep his business flowing :lol: . Jeeze, Shen Laoshi went to Karaoke bar? He was the main teaching assistant during the day, he would be so exhausted at night to do anything else beside sleeping, but if he found the energy to go, more power to him. :P

Edited by Ken

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Yes Vortex I agree with all Your Comments,This Guys getting Desperate & Could be Dangerous. God only knows what this Maniac will come up with next ? The 45.Thousand Euro Introduction Fee to Masters Jiang & Wang Clearly Exhibit a final last ditch Effort on making some Big Bucks.

 

He even sold admission Fees to visit John Chang in Indonesia ! Like some kind of Circus Act.

 

 

If i remember correctly David Verdesi was "Endorsed" by an Ex Mo-Pai Student. This Ex Student once ran his own Private Forum & Is of much the same Character as David,Only worse.

 

Peace.

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Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

 

 

 

 

Ouch

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Has DV moved to another teacher then?

 

As I mentioned in another thread, the way he operates, he need to constantly come up with or invent exclusive super-powered humans "Masters". ;)

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He even sold admission Fees to visit John Chang in Indonesia ! Like some kind of Circus Act.

If i remember correctly David Verdesi was "Endorsed" by an Ex Mo-Pai Student. This Ex Student once ran his own Private Forum & Is of much the same Character as David, Only worse.

 

Peace.

 

Interestingly, an old Sean Denty thread got re-activated today. Really thankful to heavens that he or David don't post on the Taobums any more. Two private email conversations with David a few years ago gave me a clear message: RUN... :)

 

And in the thread that has resurfaced, the only useful thing I found are two Father Paul pearls:

 

forgive me im new here

but where in the tao

is there room for conflict?

 

My experience is merely part of the endless creativity of a playful void.

 

There is neither an unscrupulous golden glitter nor an effort to sound heavy, but strikes the right cord somewhere deep within ...

Edited by SiliconValley

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This is the price for dedication.

 

I actually feel dizzy reading this thread. Literally. Not a good sign. Felt the same with KL.

Don't know what that is about.

 

It's actually a very interesting subject from a cultivation perspective: The loss of the idealized teacher, guru or master and enter the human being, or the person with an agenda. And realizing that there is no master, no other. Scary stuff.

 

Wang Li Ping, or some-asian-fellow probably need to play the role of some end state personified. A proof that there is actually a way that has been walked all the way, and now they are actually THERE. If there were no such people, we'd all be fumbling around with our stuff in the dark. But sooner or later he becomes a hurdle, and a dissapointment. Or maybe not interesting enough. If that is the case, good sign and bad sign. If you then leave to find another teacher; bad choice. If you stick with it, and realize the everyday life of this path is boring and hard at times, good boy.

 

Jack Kornfield has written good stuff on this.

 

In the end, what it teaches us is how helpless we really are faced with the loss of trust. Nomatter our level.

 

It's adolescence all over again...

 

h

Edited by hagar

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He even sold admission Fees to visit John Chang in Indonesia ! Like some kind of Circus Act...

 

I thought John Chang was "retired" after the documentary incident uploaded on YouTube where he decided not to teach Westerners anymore.

 

Hmm...seeking power in spiritual matters is a clear sign of falling under the spell of the dark side. Very sad, David Verdesi is clearly gone.

 

Edited: typo.

Edited by durkhrod chogori

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I don't know, Hagar. I am becoming firmly convinced that there is a teacher greater than all of them, who is willing and able to teach anyone at any time. A teacher who has no hype to live up to, nothing to gain, no agenda, no scandals, who charges nothing and gives everything. I don't think this teacher would have us stumble in the dark, unless we need or want to.

 

Wang Li Ping, or some-asian-fellow probably need to play the role of some end state personified. A proof that there is actually a way that has been walked all the way, and now they are actually THERE. If there were no such people, we'd all be fumbling around with our stuff in the dark. But sooner or later he becomes a hurdle, and a dissapointment.

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"Sometimes it takes a teacher to show you that you dont need a teacher"

 

But that doesnt speak to the value of a teacher getting you off the ground...

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As I mentioned in another thread, the way he operates, he need to constantly come up with or invent exclusive super-powered humans "Masters". ;)

 

Yes, This Guy must continue to come up with more wild stories to stay ahead of The Game. I see Now he has reverted back to his old Miao Tong Lineage :lol:

 

I cant imagine how crazy he must have been when Ken opened the blog (and door) to Wang Liping for us Westerners. We are talking about him losing big $$$,I would say close to half a million in a short time.

 

Regards,

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Interesting - all this is happening just when people started complaining that things are getting borring on thetaobums - well not anymore - the good ol times are back !!!

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I'll Second that one Orb.

 

394 Hits in just under 3 Hours,Not Bad. John Chang,Wang Liping,VD, Will continue to be Hot Topics.

 

:)

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Interesting - all this is happening just when people started complaining that things are getting borring on thetaobums - well not anymore - the good ol times are back !!!

I hope things don't get out of hand... But is it just me or has Sean D. mellowed out? Maybe it's Master Wang's influence.

 

Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

How much for the Korean Miao Tong Dao master? He sounds the coolest to me :P .

 

Seriously though, all the going around about teachers on this forum has taught me a lesson or two about attachment to teachers and practices.

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How much for the Korean Miao Tong Dao master? He sounds the coolest to me :P .

 

Seriously though, all the going around about teachers on this forum has taught me a lesson or two about attachment to teachers and practices.

 

 

I hope people realised that there are no such things as "lei shan dao", "Miao Tong Dao" and god knows what else. These are just names Verdesi invented in his own imgainary daoist classification system. It had come to my attention not long ago that he claimed his teacher Jiang is from "da mo pai", which is surprising since Jiang told one of my acquaintance that his lineage is called Shaolin Geng Men, I guess no one will be interested in a school called Geng Men and "da mo pai" sounds more, idk, "hotter" :P . And you know since Da Mo was from Shaolin, so i guess "da mo pai" is not completely wrong. :rolleyes:

Edited by Ken

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I hope people realised that there are no such things as "lei shan dao", "Miao Tong Dao" and god knows what else. These are just names Verdesi invented in his own imgainary daoist classification system.

I must respectfully object to the way you phrased this. I imagine you mean that the classification Lei Shan Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Yang Shen Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Sha Mian Dao does not have a precedent in traditional Chinese Daoism, and I will take your word for it (I suspected as much anyway). But in a sense all classifications are imaginary so the real issue is utility. I think it is a useful classification of the different approaches to the Dao, granted that there can be plenty of overlap.

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I hope people realised that there are no such things as "lei shan dao", "Miao Tong Dao" and god knows what else. These are just names Verdesi invented in his own imgainary daoist classification system. It had come to my attention not long ago that he claimed his teacher Jiang is from "da mo pai", which is surprising since Jiang told one of my acquaintance that his lineage is called Shaolin Geng Men, I guess no one will be interested in a school called Geng Men and "da mo pai" sounds more, idk, "hotter" :P . And you know since Da Mo was from Shaolin, so i guess "da mo pai" is not completely wrong. :rolleyes:

I have noticed that too a while ago and thought wow, this guy really knows how to sell stuff...he somehow unifies all the disparate qigong disciplines into one "unified theory of everything". The Chinese character for "Mo" in Damo is of course different from "Mo" in Mopai. No one except David would call Shaolin as Damo pai or worse "Da mo pai".

 

Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

 

David

Amazing!! :rolleyes: IF David really achieves so called Yin Yang Gong, why would anyone still need to study with Jiang or Liping. They could have learned everything from him!!

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Hi there Everybody.

 

I just recieved a private message from a trusted source. What im about to post was recently posted on Davids Foundation Forum. The person wanted this matter bought to the attention of everybody here,So out of respect for him i will re-post it and leave his name out.

 

I think its clear to one & all to see the bitterness of David. I feel simply its because he cannot monopolize on Wang Liping any longer.

 

Thanks & Enjoy :D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The new Daoism wave, Liping and students

 

Thread Started on Nov 6, 2008, 7:16am

 

the matters at hand is the seemingly rebirth of Daoism in China, this is as mentioned a while ago part of a long term plan for the reintroduction of religious value in the communist structure of chinese politic, pedagogy and society at large. Suffering from the constant sense of comparison and inferiority complex and also becoming harder and harder to deny the need of the masses for more then just moralism ( see the surge of qigong sects and both islam and christianity) a slow process started in 90's of preparing the ground for the rebirth of religion, that is autoctonous religion, i.e. Daoism in China.

 

Liping is the man for the job that is his destiny and as i mentioned already a couple of years ago, the Olympics would sign the official opening of the gates. Liping will become more and more a public persona with huge government support propaganda behind and the cream of china intellectuals to back up the operation, the goal is simple, Daoism to everybody for the pride of the state, this they realize cannot happen without including westerners, they are eventually surrendering to the reality that there is more to the world then just China and its walls, globalization has hit the mark.

 

as i was with him there in the last 4 years of transition have seen changes and event from a relatively good sightpoint.

 

i must say to a great extent his biography (written in 92-93) and all the followed, (1 books and a collection of articles) has been part of a well thought plan of propaganda of the new daoism and his pope, Liping.

 

...

 

Liping has always been very straight, at the beginning of each class i presented to, private or public he clearly stated he teaches the religious aspect of Daoism belonging to the mountain or hermit tradition, this alone is a statement made in a very chinese way that says: forget ever achieving it, this is a tease.

 

...

 

(here Liping play the game for he caress people ego saying things without saying,giving the easy impression things are bigger then they are whent it comes to some of his students, is very sweet, excellent didactic to put people up and commend them, but when getting the hard facts, i found lots of inconsistence or anedoct at best or in most cases those unique peak which happened only once or twice in the person practice career)

 

...

 

his destiny is to reveal the techincal aspect of his tradition, to show that everyone can practice it no matter who or what because will "make you youthful" and be "good for you" will "heal you" and the usual kind of lets admit it empty meaningless promises you all heard 1000 times before, (not that they do not deliver to a certain extent and for certain people)

 

...

 

Along with Anna we were the only 2 foreigners at a highly secretive meeting od advance students and senior practitioner only (please take a bit of the sarcasm in the word advanced) around 150 people who follow him since the 80's 40 of those supposedly with balls so to speak....i spare you the sadness and disillusion but will mention that i do happen to know shen zhi gan who took great pride in telling me how much he knows and how many books he wrote and that he makes froums blogs and god knows to spread Daoism, commendable...unluckily big mouth but not much essence (plus in 10 days of retreat caught him 3 times drunk out in the night, out of seedy karaoke nothing wrong i love those places, but then don't play the pure, sinless, desireless and near enlighted dude during the day) and lots lots of both conceptual and personal....concepts made of him and a couple of others (lu ya ping) in the 10 days there a gathering of zealots.

 

Furthermore aside being a fanatic zealot he does truly exagerate and make real, things which are not, unforgivable in this field (like people having all kind of miracle opening the "orbit" the 3 eye and such and so, mostly as usual just sensationalistic experiences, induced by Ling, Shen or of Qi but again to feel something is not to have achieved it) was very disappointing, to see them take distances from phenomena like Falun gong or similar just to mention) but then faling in the same trap of feel good great experience kind of thing confused with actully achieving it. The top was reached as i was bugging some of the loud mouth among them to prove their achievement, but nobody could, they all went crying to Liping for having hurt their...shall we say ego? and made then loose face, once Shen Zhi Gan and Lu Ya Ping looked at me and said, "ohh your channels are close and you have no qi even if i show you, you would not feel it ? i had a good laugh about it (i just passed the yin yang gong test) but truly quite sad in fact. and most of the so called great things they witnessed are merely more then of the usual mass effect (still definetely some incredible healing yes and random miracolous Ling events but then again this is something different and no need to go to china for that, shall we mention many great Christian charismatig mass healing and divine revelations?)

 

Of the old students i interviewed only 1 did actually pass the test and has achieved some actual results, but could not show it because he needs 3 months of celibacy and 1 months of being vegetarian to prepare for a demo.... i mean...COME ON, and few others did succeed in enter a lesser Ding (of 15 hours is like a 15 hours samadhi, remarkable but...after 20 years of meditating 4 hours a day not so impressive) but still not the xiao ding necessary to practice death and real Shen transformation (72 hours).

 

...

 

Still definetely he and a couple of others have been around Liping for long time and have gathered lots of technical informations of mixed value. Unlukily the all operation is turning in to a manualistic kind of glorified mantak chia, technicism without depth. was quite a disappointment for me personally.

 

...

 

David

***

QUOTE

changes

 

Thread Started on Oct 15, 2008, 8:11am

 

Dear All

 

after a long while its time again to write here again.

 

...

 

The reason for me to write is to announce something which am sure will stir some waters. In brief recent events brought the beginning of a new journey, having achieved that which sparked the all search and having being guided by those of the Miao Tong Dao whom i remit to, its time for me to open the doors to those of you with interest and means directly to a couple of teachers which are to become important figures in the years to come.

 

Having spoken and agreed with both Jiang and Liping on the matter im happy to be the

 

Guan Xi for those of you who will want to study under them directly not just as outsiders or public students but having access to them privately and to the teachings they will be willing to share.

 

those of you interested PM me personally.

 

Prices are as follow ( and can and will change without prior notice) 45.000 euro for Jiang. 24.000 for Liping.

 

the introduction will be formal and sealed which implies your direct access to the masters and the teaching in private form and will of course comes with my support and teaching as well if required.

 

...

 

David

 

O.k. this is something that overpass even the wildest imagination. This guy has nothing sacred. Somebody has to kick his @#$. And I mean beat him. His "skills" wont save him. Thanks Robert for the info. I hope people will read this, and dont even think to get close to him in any way. Well, maybe only to kick his @#$.

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I don't know, Hagar. I am becoming firmly convinced that there is a teacher greater than all of them, who is willing and able to teach anyone at any time. A teacher who has no hype to live up to, nothing to gain, no agenda, no scandals, who charges nothing and gives everything. I don't think this teacher would have us stumble in the dark, unless we need or want to.

 

You got me wrong. Even Jesus had an agenda.

 

I can only speak from my experience. And from recollection of other westerners who, faced with the shock and dissapointment of finding that their teacher is human need to face som serious self-examination. I recall Nathalie Goldberg wrote about her Katagiri roshi. He was charged with taking advantaged of female students, had several affairs etc. Yet, reading her touching tale of his passing, how she realized that the greatest gift her teacher had given her was her need to face her dissapointment, and finally also forgiveness. And he's not alone of being a superb teacher of spirituality and being very human at the same time. Many of the great tibetan teachers, like Trungpa or Songyal Rimpoche faced similar fates.

 

I feel lucky to have found a teacher first time around that I have immense respect for. Yet there are cultural differences, and differences in worldview that do surface nomatter how selfless.

 

Do not underestimate the fact that deep seated cultural and personal differences actually become even more highlighted when you go far along the path with them. And regarding the money issue, that is very context dependent. For chinese masters, the whole issue of money is part of Guan Zhi. Money actally means something different in the west.

 

Also, a good teacher is never only kind. He gives the student what he needs, not what he wants. That means that he probably will treat students very differently and not based on some ideal. A master may kick and embarass one student, while embracing another. But both with the same intention.

 

But you're probably right. There are surely some master, in a remote place with nothing to gain from taking anything, only giving. Funny thing though, they seem to be all around, if you know how to look.

 

h

Edited by hagar

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i agree with hagar.

i know about a guy that use to have a saying: only a perfect moron will look for a perfect teacher. many would like to learn from Jesus, but fiew would be capable of learning from his very lesser apostle.

i'm always amazed at the world of spiritual seekers: there are many-many of them that search for a perfect spotless master... with the result of always being dissapointed. humans are still human.

it's like with the girls that always attract the wrong kind of guy, ending up with a great distrust towards love and romanticism...

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I may regret this, but I'd like to write briefly about my experience in practicing a little of what David and his students are teaching.

 

I took a seminar last year with one of David's senior students. I paid a completely reasonable fee. At the seminar we learned a couple of entry level practices.

 

Well...

 

...it just so happens that they work.

The basic results listed in the course description clearly become proof with practice. And you know all this drama dissolves in the face of proof however minor.

 

I have never followed or been asked to follow anyone. I have never been asked to say anything on anyone's behalf or represent anyone. In fact it is all quite minimal and informal. No big circus show. Just humans trying to be their best. Its funny how little bits of info get twisted into rumors and conspiracy theories. These people who some of you attack have been nothing but kind and generous with me. You can call me a fool if you wish and I will accept it as a compliment.

 

So while all of this gossip is going round and round on the hamster wheel, people are actually successfully practicing.

 

In the end whether you are practicing something or fomenting on the internet, the only true enemy is yourself. Better to focus on that battle. Its the only one that matters.

 

 

Peace.

D

Edited by darebak

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"The real lesson in all these romantic kung-fu novel tales

 

- is that there is no "secret system" that REALLY works.

 

It all comes down to each individual working REALLY HARD

 

in whatever system they are attracted to -

 

People work, methods and schools don't do anything alone." (M. Winn)

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