forestofclarity

Sam Bercholz, the founder of Shambhala publications, had an NDE where he went to hell. In one location, there was a terrible and cruel tyrant who, during his life, has killed and tortured countless people under his reign. He was reborn in the shape of a mountain who was undergoing tremendous suffering due to the fires and discomforts of hell. Part of this was that his body was writhing and alive, composed of his followers who participated in the terrors. In addition, his body was ALSO composed of all the people who hated him, fusing together with him in their human life and the next life. In other words, hatred fuses us to the object of our hatred as much as devoted glee. Not saying this should be taken literally, but feeding negativity for negativity's sake seems pointless. If anything, the faults of samsara should fuel renunciation from its promises, compassion for those in ignorance, and a stark determination to seek enlightenment so one can truly benefit sentient beings. The knowledge of the suffering of samsara is presented as the first step of the spiritual path, not the last.

That is definitely an issue with increasing the power to the system. Whatever is there-- good, bad or ugly, tends to get amplified. This is likely one reason why certain traditions don't teach these openly with ethical vows and so on.

The old Kunlun craze was something--- the Lama DORJE THUNDERBOLT movie/website where he walked around in vaguely Tibetan robes evidently channeling qi into screaming women. That armies died in order to learn the mysterious Red Phoenix technique. People looking for dream initiation. Horror movies. Clones. Conspiracies of the highest order. I agree with what Sahaja said, but would add that involuntary movements are widely known across traditions and tend to pop up even during intensive concentration and Vipassana retreats.

I think that pain and suffering is an indication of a misalignment-- physical, mental, and/or spiritual. I also think that all three are connected and interdependent. Some pain and illness can be addressed in ways put forth here, and some of it has deeper, karmic roots. Suffering can always be addressed. Well said!

Mod Note: Off topic discussion moved here:

I thought Isaac Newton would be the most famous person to have studied Hermeticism.

The cash was generally for medical treatments, healings, pills, opening energetic channels, introductions, seminars, etc. This has come up a number of times over the history of TDB. I've had many conversations over the years, it's just something that stuck in my mind. In the esoteric arts realm, I've discovered a lot of times there are layered approached to teaching, with key teachings often not being transmitted at all or only to a few select students. Sometimes false or modified teachings are given, etc, especially to the public or Westerners. I remember that we had a whole discussion some years ago and the bottom line from Rudi was that if one couldn't emit electric qi and one's students couldn't emit electric qi, it didn't count.

Surrender seems to be a large part of it. It is not always clear what is being surrendered. Typically, it refers to the acquired mind (識神) or shi shen, the series of habits and ways of doings things that we've picked up over our lifetime or many lifetimes. Under it, the yuan shen (元神), is primordially free and connected to the larger whole. I often think of the TTC 48 on this (trans Derek Lin) Pursue knowledge, daily gain Pursue Tao, daily loss Loss and more loss Until one reaches non-action With non-action, there is nothing one cannot do Take the world by constantly applying non-interference The one who interferes is not qualified to take the world

It's the classic spirit of first hand experimentation and free inquiry that will not be limited by rules and limits. I think it is a good thing!

Classic Daobums answer! Thanks, I'll check it out when I have some time.

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher.

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point.

There are several benefits: increased physical health, less need for food/sleep, mental calmness, less clinging, increased meditative stability, etc. It is not a matter of the dan tian per se but a healthy subtle energy system, of which the LDT is a part. However, in appears to me that if one cultivates wisdom, then the subtle body develops spontaneously. Some Buddhist schools are more direct or indirect depending.

I have gotten instructions from a Soto person that was very close to Damo's. And Meido Roshi teaches it, but his lineage also includes martial arts. He wrote a book with some instruction on it. https://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/meido-moore/hidden-zen.html

This is just the old "are we building it or filling it argument" that every system with subtle body practices has. From the article: I was noting in the Mark Rasmus thread about this also. Zen in my mind really starts at the root and then extends into the body, so I think this is a difference.