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Happy New Year to you Luke, and to the rest of you Bums. May 2026 bring out the best in us!

Same in finnish: taivas. I once said to my neighbor in broken finnish something like "the sky is beautiful" and he got this weird look on his face. afterwards, i figured he probably thought I was talking about heaven.

In Portuguese the word for sky is ceu and the word for Heaven, Ceu. Just for interest.

After many years of practice, the slow spiraling movements of tai chi become part of one´s personality; the habit of deep diaphramatic breathing results in a remarkable steady calm. No doubt this explains why Dao Bums forum members are unfailingly peaceful, remarkably free from the pugilistic impulses that characterize interaction in other corners of the intrawebs. Our tendency towards good cheer and amiability was especially apparent in that area of the site, now defunct, known as "Current Events." Did we always agree with one another? We did not. But even when we found ourselves at extreme idiological odds, we never failed to recognize the humanity and basic good will of our fellows. On that rare occasion when a post resulted in passing annoyance, we looked inward: what unresolved issue within us was responsible for this prick of discontent? Such is the way of the refined heart. And so, with all the gratitude and warm fuzzies I can muster, I raise my glass to you my fellow Bums. May you saunter on into the expanse of the desert or the misty mountains or the bathroom down the hall, wherever your path may lead. Happy New Year!!! LL

I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no name It felt good to be out of the rain In the desert you can remember your name ‘Cause there ain’t no one for to give you no pain

No, I am not in touch with any banned members.

My 2025 started off rough, by spring I attempted a move. Didn't work out. Late summer, tried another move, didn't go as planned, yet, worked out in other ways. Fall has been good. Beginning this winter much better than a year ago. Reflecting on 2025, personally,,, new found direction. Looking at 2026, looking forward. Knowing, things continue to change. I learned a new way to offer Cheers, salut, etc And to all ya'lls bums, I raise my glass sans clinking Formidable!!

Wu wei has many dimensions. I’ve learned from translations, commentary, other authors, meditation, contemplation, and most of all trying to live it. I’m grateful for it all.

Errrmmmm ... yes you are ( you just dont realize it )

NOOOOOOOOOOOO ! - Old daobums joke

But how did you get from names to morals?

I started looking at the English translations over 50 years ago. They differ! I wondered. Learned a tiny bit of Chinese, found that even the translations from characters differ. Learned about the nature of Classical a tiny bit, and that explained a lot. So I started looking at some translations from characters and saw they cheated. Some characters given incorrect meanings/grammatical function. Or inserting/removing bits. Or delivering a word salad. I started my own translations. I puzzle and keep making changes. All done? Then I check! Does the chapter make a coherent and meaningful translation? And don’t cheat! Only use meanings that are Laozi time appropriate. And make sure to not go against the Classical grammar. But I am not the only conscientious translator and e.g. Henricks (my favorite) comes to a totally different translation. I think the characters allow different translations. The translation is the result of the lens one looks through (what’s inside your own mind).

It doesn't matter actually, because the very very real meanings of these caracters cannot be extracted, understood and expressed by 識神 Shi shen since it is not the correct device to do the decoding/encoding.

As I recall, my argument was that Laotze did not use any special poetic style of writing.

Do you learn from a member of the Tao Bums who got banned ? Then please teach him if you really understand what you write on this forum and that always transform into nothing but a period mark. Can you get the point?

Nor do I.

@Apech I want to post about a few other things first. Then I will get back to it. I have been trying to translate ch. 1 from characters for about 7 years now, so the reply is bound to be be short.

Ok but could you go through the thought process that led you there please? I am interested.

Was that the forum that started up after the split here?

@steve the now defunct forum Original Dao.

What is OD?

@steve 長得長, 長長, 長長, 長長 長1(zhabg): to grow 長2(chang): long in length 長3(chang): long in time 長1得長2(zhang de chang): It grows long 長3長2(chang chang): always long 長3長1(chang zhang): always growing 長3長2: always long 一行行, 行行行 Yi hang xing, hang hang xing 行1(hang): occupation 行2(xing): successful; OK If one occupation is successful, then all occupations will be successful.

you don’t explain your choice there you just say what it is. Why is morals better than name(s)?

Ursula le Guin’s DDJ https://wesleyac.com/dao/refs/leguin1998.pdf I see she translates 德 in 道德經 (dao4 de2 jing1) as “power”. Read enough, not for me.

The correct translation is 🐉🥷🏻🤣

Wooohooooo

Touche ! Have you got it figured out ? That ^ looks like you were asking me if you are right about thinking I understand the meaning of Ch 1 . Ummmmm ...... yes . .

A perfect and succinct instruction for meditation A description of the realization Transformation, nonduality, immortality

Yes, to the English ear heaven is a more accurate translation than sky in many cases

When I look up the meaning of each character, this is what I find: 5. 故常無欲以觀其妙 故 therefore; so; thus; for this reason; because of; cause; reason; former; old; old friend; old matter; incident; event; deliberately; intentionally; to pass away; hometown; native place 常 constant; always; often; regularly; habitual; customary; common; ordinary; normal; fixed 無 not; no; without; lack; absence; none; nothing; nothingness; empty; to not have 欲 desire; want; wish; would like to; intend; plan; appetite; craving; lust; greed; urge; need; request; to be about to; will; shall 以 use; by means of; with; take; because of; according to; so as to; in order to; thereby; and; from; to regard as 觀 look; see; watch; observe; view; inspect; contemplate; reflect; consider; viewpoint; scene; Daoist temple; monastery 其 his; her; its; their; that; those; such; the aforementioned; emphasis marker; should; would; perhaps 妙 subtle; fine; delicate; ingenious; clever; wonderful; marvelous; exquisite; profound; mysterious; key point; hidden secret 6. 常有欲以觀其徼 常 constant; always; often; regularly; habitual; customary; common; ordinary; normal; fixed 有 have; possess; there is; there are; exist; presence; own; happen; occur; certain; some 欲 desire; want; wish; would like to; intend; plan; appetite; craving; lust; greed; urge; need; request; to be about to; will; shall 以 use; by means of; with; take; because of; according to; so as to; in order to; thereby; and; from; to regard as 觀 look; see; watch; observe; view; inspect; contemplate; reflect; consider; viewpoint; scene; Daoist temple; monastery 其 his; her; its; their; that; those; such; the aforementioned; emphasis marker; should; would; perhaps 徼 border; boundary; frontier; outskirts; limit; edge; patrol; guard; intercept; demand; exact; seek

Chapter 14 The invisible Tao 1. 視之不見,名曰夷。 2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。 3. 摶之不得,名曰微。 4. 此三者不可致詰， 5. 故混而為一。­ 6. 其上不皦， 7. 其下不昧， 8. 繩繩不可名， 9. 復歸於無物。 10.是謂無狀之狀， 11.無物之象， 12.是謂惚恍。 13.迎之不見其首， 14.隨之不見其後。 15.執古之道以御今之有。 16.能知古始， 17.是謂道紀。 Translated in terse English... 1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless. 2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless. 3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless. 4. These three are inseparable 5. These three objects blended in one. 6. Its top is not brilliant. 7. Its bottom is not dim. 8. Its continuance is unnameable. 9. Returned to being formless(state of invisibility), 10. Is called a form of no form. 11. An image of formless, 12. Is called obscure. 13. Greet it cannot see its head. 14. Follow it cannot see its back. 15. Grasp the presence of Tao to see all existing things, 16. Able to understand the ancient origin, 17. It's called the Principles of Tao.

What does it mean to let nature take its course? I thought you are having trouble with Chinese, please don't tell me you are having trouble with English too? "To let nature take its course" simply means don't interrupt the course of nature. For example, the high way was built by blowing up the foothill loosen the support of the hill. As result, it was causing landslide, mudslide and the falling of bolder. That was considered the course of nature was interrupted. The TTC has four entities, human. earth, sky(heaven), and Tao. According to Laotze, human was an observer of the universe(天地) and follow the principle of the universe. First he lifted human out side of nature to observe what is happening in nature. Then, he threw human back into nature to cope with it. 人法地; human follows earth 地法天: earth follows sky(heaven) 天法道 Sky(heaven) follows Tao 道法自然 Tao follows itself(自然, ziren) Special note: In reading the TTC, we must do away with the self-center and broaden our vision and look deep into the TTC. We are just a spectator of Laotze and listen to what he has to say. It is not up to us to determine what we want him to say. Peace!

hang on ! How did 'groping' get into it ?

Yes, quail groping is not endorsed by the QG. I happily pronounce quale to rhyme with kuàilè 快樂

To translate these terms, one must have the cultural background of understanding. 天子 : son of sky(heaven); emperor To an English speaker properly would translated as "the son of heaven". To a native speaker would be understood as "the son of the sky", Of course, this would sound awkward to an English speaker. The idea is more important than what is called. The direct translation of 天子 is the son of heaven(sky). The actual implication was directed to the emperor. In the ancient Chinese thinking, earth was ruled by the sky(heaven). The emperor rules on earth, therefore, the emperor was sent down from heaven(sky) to rule on earth. 天師: Astrologer 天命: Fate; destiny 天問: Ask the sky(heaven); question to the sky 天地: Sky and earth; universe 理天: Principle of Sky(Heaven); Absolute reality 氣天: Spiritual world 象天: Material world

Nature is the 10,000 things including you ! Now we get to the next bit ... what is your true nature ? I contend that if one is following their khvarenah or 'True Will' they are living in harmony with their true nature and nature itself . If one's True Will is to be an artists but instead you find yourself an unhappy factory worker (or anything else ) then that is against your nature and nature . Then again we could propose that anything a human does that no other animal does , is against nature .

Lao was 'bothered ' by a bird ? You better put that one in square brackets !

Happy New Year ! ..... inside a dinosaur ??? '' As New Year's Eve invitations go, the one received by 20 men in December 1853 was unusual. Apart from the fact that presumably none of the attendees wanted to spend the turning of the year with any of their womenfolk, the location was specified as "in the mould of the Iguanodon at the Crystal Palace. " https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2pgwj19plo .

One reason is that if I am trying to understand something translated from a different language, it does not help to use words that are never used in my own language and that I don't understand. Asking me to learn new words to translate foreign words and concepts compounds the difficulty. Just as I value your native understanding of the Chinese language and culture, ChiDragon, perhaps there is some value for you in the opinions of native English speakers? But at the end of the day, your translation - your choice. Do you grok my quale?

無 (wu2) and 有 (you3) did not have the meanings “invisible” and “visible”.

The words of your choice are very ambiguous to me. However, for a non-native English speaker, I had to read it five times to figure it out. That you have understood of what the translation was saying. May I ask you am I right about that?